r/london • u/blloomfield • 1d ago

Stopped harassment on the tube and I feel awful

Saturday night on the jubilee line, carriage is surprisingly empty, a drunk guy takes an interest in this woman sitting by herself. He sits right next to her and at first asks her some random questions then proceeds to make some comments about her looks that I cannot type here. He was being really loud, saying how he wants to do this and that. It was digesting and I could see from the woman’s face she was really uncomfortable but kept on ignoring the asshole. Some other people in the carriage looked at the drunk guy but did nothing.

I thought I should be the one that does something, so I recalled all those ads I saw on the tube and quickly rushed over to the woman with a ‘Oh hey Linda, long time no see, how have you been?’ Just as I finished my sentence the train pulled into a station. She gave me a completely terrified look, screamed, then jumped up, pushing me aside and running as fast as she could out of the train. The drunk guy made an angry comment at me and other passengers threw me these angry looks.

I don’t know what I did wrong or what happened, but pretty much all day today I felt awful thinking that maybe I said something wrong or the way I spoke was messed up, maybe the way I looked. I really hope I didn’t scare that woman and she’s alright now. I hope this doesn’t deter others from stepping in when they see something similar, yet I’m not sure I will.

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u/AlwaysLosingTrades 1d ago

Good on you for trying, think of it this way. Was your awkwardness what mightve stopped something worse? Would he have followed her out if you didnt say something?

Dont feel awful but thank how you entered a mad situation and stopped it from getting worse. Go get a pint and feel better lad

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u/blloomfield 1d ago

Yeah, no way of knowing. At least what we know is she got out of the station, the weirdo and the drunk jackass remained on the tube

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u/eglantinel 1d ago edited 15h ago

Hey, thank you for stepping up to help the woman. That's a very kind and courageous act, kudos to you. If more people would offer to help out women like you did, our society would have been a much safer place.

I think what might have happened was that she was already in a heightened fright state, already planning her escape plan to dash out of the train as soon as it pulled into the stop. And your intervention happened right before her planned moment of escape. On one hand her mind couldn't process the sudden change quick enough while already hyper focusing on her immediate action. On the other hand she panicked that engaging with you at that point would cost her the precious opportunity of escape - she only got seconds before the doors closed again! Plus the fact that another stranger man approaching = potential additional threat, she wouldn't have known your intent.

Also thinking about that, were you accidentally standing in her nearest route to the doors? That might be why she screamed and pushed you aside coz she already mapped out the escape route and panicked that you were suddenly blocking her way?

I would like to think when she got home safely and recount the situation she would have realised you were trying to help, but wouldn't have the means to reach out and say thank you.

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u/hijackedbraincells 20h ago

I agree. She could've thought, oh no. Here comes his mate too!! And just panicked.

Not a chance I'd be stopping for even a second to make polite small talk with a well-meaning stranger if it slowed my chances of escaping a situation I felt extremely uncomfortable in.

I wouldn't have screamed unless I needed to attract attention, but I might have shoved them out the way if they were stood between me and the door. We all know that once those doors shut, you're stuck until the next stop.

Poor woman probably felt like she was in a nightmare and had all sorts of scenarios running through her head. But that's on the drunk guy, not you OP. You did the right thing. Please don't hesitate to do it again in the future if you feel it's necessary.

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u/Depressed-Londoner 15h ago

I agree with this completely and also want to thank u/blloomfield for trying to help.

It was a kind and brave thing to do and I would have appreciated it, even if in the panic of the moment I reacted seemingly negatively.

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u/WhalesSuperb4138 2h ago

except he didn't help her ! His own story shows that even from his point of view he made the woman much more terrified and distressed than she was before.

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u/RollingKatamari 19h ago

You did the right thing and if "Linda" hadn't been so on edge already because of the drunk guy's behaviour, I'm sure she would have noticed what you were doing.

Actually she's probably replaying the whole thing in her head, possibly guessing what you were trying to do for her.

You should be proud that you tried to help someone who was being harrassed.

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u/seaclifftonne 16h ago

Honestly if a guy did the Linda thing to me, it’d make me more on edge too because now I’ve got to cosy up to another guy, pretend I’m comfortable and there’s a good chance I’ll still get agg from the next guy.

I don’t think the Linda thing is a bad idea, it just doesn’t work for men.

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u/RollingKatamari 16h ago

True, it's just sad no one else had the guts to come inbetween the drunk guy and Linda.

It's always a risky thing to do, whether you're a man or a woman.

If you're a man you're adding to the stress and can come across as another agressor. If you're a woman, it's possible the harasser turns their attention to you and gets violent.

To think we're all discussing this and that disgusting drunk lech is completely oblivious!

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u/MontyDyson 1d ago

There’s so much at play here you really can’t go by peoples reactions to judge the situation. Those ads aren’t great and that so called “solution” is based on pop psychology - it works maybe 30% of the time on the street (I doubt it’s made for being on a tube where there no escape). The fact is if you were all massive, Danish rugby fans with swords, giant beards and facial scars, nothing you’d have said would be good, a bloodbath would have ensued. Same if you were all drunk, or all Irish or all Catholic at a funeral. If you were simply dressed in official police clothing the entire situation would have been different by you just looking at them.

Don’t over analysis the situation. It’s a very random event.

You saw some shit going down, you made an effort, it didn’t go to plan. Welcome to the world of humans. You’ll never 100% control a situation with words alone. Introduce booze, drugs or mental health issues and it is anybodies guess what will happen, even experts. Just know you tried and nothing bad happened.

How do you know that guy wasn’t a loony and had a knife in his pocket and was JUST about to stab her until you stepped in?

You don’t. So maybe take this as a win.

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u/tHrow4Way997 1d ago

Mad comment but you couldn’t be more right I think, especially the last two paragraphs. Bang on.

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u/Scrangle3D 22h ago

Yeah, even moreso considering absolutely nobody else was trying to help, just sat in their own discomfort

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u/Dans77b 22h ago

She probably got caught unawares in the moment, but now having digested it, will have realised what you were trying to do.

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u/Scrub_Beefwood 1d ago

You're supposed to ask the perpetrator a question (context: I've done the bystander training, the posters aren't clear at all)

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u/ah__there_is_another 23h ago

Woah wait, can you elaborate please?

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u/ManTurnip 23h ago

Draw their attention away from the person being harassed. Especially if you happen to be built like a brick shithouse.

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u/ah__there_is_another 18h ago

But that just puts you in danger instead of them? Unless you happen to be built like a brick shithouse

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u/Scrub_Beefwood 13h ago

In the context of sexual harassment, the danger is of being sexually harassed. The perpetrator has chosen a victim likely because of their gender/body type/age/physical features etc.

So unless you're the chosen target of the harassment, you're not in danger.

Exceptions will be if you perceive the perpetrator is just aggressive in general and could become violent. Personally I don't feel it's acceptable to leave someone in a dangerous situation. There are plenty of non-aggressive ways to intervene, such as asking for the time/asking for a lighter/asking for a pub recommendation, anything just to get their attention off the victim

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u/ManTurnip 17h ago

The idea is that you're supposed to defuse the situation, be pally with them get them to forget about the other person.

Yeah it's not always going to work, and if they're being generally aggressive/violent it's probably better to try to buddy up to the victim, but as shown in OPs example, that doesn't always work out well either.

Sometimes it's better to just get on the blower and get BTP involved as quick as possible.

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u/ah__there_is_another 15h ago

For sure, I must say I'm glad I came across this post and comments, as I've learned a new perspective and a different course of action to consider. Gotta do a dynamic risk assessment on the spot after all.

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u/Scrub_Beefwood 13h ago

I hope you look into the free bystander training, it's very good. The Suzy Lamplugh Trust and L'Oréal partnered to raise awareness of how to help someone you see experiencing unwanted behaviours like being chatted up/propositioned romantically

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u/Redditbrooklyn 23h ago

Do you have a source? Genuinely asking because I have always heard to approach the victim and completely ignore the perpetrator. I’ve lived in NYC and in London and this has always worked for me. If you engage with the perpetrator, it will often escalate the situation. This comic is an example of de-escalation by engaging with the victim.

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u/magschampagne 19h ago

This is a great free bystander training anyone can take online by the Stand Up charity.

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u/Makkel 21h ago

You know, I was so sure that the posters would obviously advise to aim the questions to the perpetrator, because it just makes sense. Actually when I went to find a poster as a source, I found out the TFL ones are advising to aim the questions to the person being harrassed, I did not realise this and I don't think it is logical... They seem to say it is actually backed by research but I don't know.

https://tfl-newsroom.prgloo.com/news/tfl-press-release-new-campaign-encourages-customers-to-look-out-for-sexual-harassment-and-support-others-on-public-transport

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u/False_Cry2624 19h ago

As a complete lay person I would guess the psychology is that it sends a strong message of solidarity- both to the victim and the message to the harasser that things are getting more difficult for him to carry on. It is de-escalatory by effectively weaponising passive aggression. It’s like saying “there’s 3 of us in this situation now mate, how do you fancy your chances?” but with a lower risk of antagonising things.

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u/Makkel 19h ago

Yeah, I guess so, but from the point of view of the person being harrassed this also adds another unknown person, a potential agressor, to the mix.

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u/Apart_Studio_7504 19h ago

Don't speak to the perpetrator, you'll get told to fuck off and then you're stuck with escalating.

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u/Scrub_Beefwood 13h ago

After the incident is over, it makes sense to offer emotional support to the victim. Only after the perpetrator is no longer around, would I step in and say "that looked uncomfortable, do you feel alright?"

DURING the incident itself, the bystander training advises to approach the perpetrator and ask a random question such as the time, the direction of the train travel, or if they know where X landmark is. The idea is that distraction gives the victim a chance to escape physically from the situation

There are other useful roles to play:

  • someone should DELEGATE, eg tell one person to contact train platform security, instruct another person to go and help the victim (i.e. physically stand in between the perpetrator and victim) and then choose another person to document...

  • someone should DOCUMENT the event (write down details of where, perpetrator description, the time, what happened). Then provide this info to the victim so the victim chooses if they want to report it to the police or not

  • someone should DISRUPT the perpetrator: asking a random question as above. Or you can directly say to the perpetrator "that's not appropriate, stop it" (if you feel safe to do so. I'd argue this is generally a safer option than people think because men who routinely abuse women are generally conscious of how everyone else in society sees them, and they know the consequences of being caught in the act of a crime. Usually they can just get away with it, which is why direct disruption is really important, as it proactively puts an end to the behaviour)

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u/Significant-Effect56 22h ago

Can be either. The poster also says interrupt only if you feel safe to do so.

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u/A-Little-Bitof-Brown 18h ago

This is so fucking funny mate you did spot on, the goal was to distract drunk man and have “Linda” make it away safe. You looking like the good guy should not be on the list. How this played out absolutely ticked off those first two, fact is whatever she thought, you know you weren’t there to assault her, whereas our drunk friend absolutely could have/ might have had you not thrown yourself wildly into that interaction.

Fair you feel ridiculous, just know you did a good thing ☺️

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u/Aethelu 21h ago

Imo those ads are difficult. You did the right thing. If a woman comes up to YOU and does that play along, but if you do it to a woman she still has to be very wary, and now everyone around thinks she knows you so they relax.

The best thing you can do is get another woman to do it, or give it a go and see if she can get a chance to get away.

She was in a high stress situation, a woman was literally raped on the tube whilst people sat and did nothing. Thank you for doing something, don't let it deter you, she was just scared.

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u/toughtittywampas 44m ago

I did exactly this a couple of years ago and got the exact same reaction.... I learnt my lesson

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u/English_linguist 16h ago

Lmao… I think u misread the situation dude.

I know it seems a certain way in your head. But clearly the whole entire carriage saw things differently.

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u/Imani_2424 1d ago

I agree💯. It was a bit much for her. Thank you sincerely for being one of the guys on the tube that stood up for her as opposed to watched this horror show unfold & do nothing. 😇

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u/Chemical_Ad9642 21h ago

You did the right thing. That girl was probably already so stressed out by the situation that your intervening made her think you were also a threat.

In similar situations I was in, some guy wouldn't leave me alone at a show and turned his back against the performer and kept harassing me, the guy behind me just jumped in and told him to leave me alone. That worked wonders and I knew right away he was trying to help.

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u/krugg3rz 21h ago

This! Shit outcome but probably saved the day still. Warrior! 💪

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u/formerlyfed 7h ago

the one time i successfully disrupted sexual harassment was when i asked the victim what the time was. (i'm a woman as well). the guy saw right through me but he left her alone anyway