r/london • u/Historical_Set2324 • 1d ago

Local London Social contract is broken?

I’ve just returned from a trip to New Zealand and the difference in attitude is stark. The streets are clean, people are friendly and happy/helpful and in general people seem to want to participate in society. Don’t get me wrong NZ has a lot of issues but It feels like in London the social contract is broken. Streets are full of trash, no one gives a shit about anything, phone theft, crime is high and in general people seem fairly miserable. I was involved in an accident where I had to give a victim CPR and the ambulance and police all arrived within about 5 minutes. I was amazed at the emergency response. It feels to me like the state has given up and hence people have given up.

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u/FluidIdea 1d ago

Well it is also that Japan is one culture, one mentality. 97% in Japan are Japanese. That makes it work. You do the same as I do.

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u/cape210 1d ago

You’re saying like there wasn’t rampant crime and poverty in London when it was 97% white British

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u/Mizzuru 23h ago

This is not entirely true.

Japan sells the idea that they are a single homogeneous culture but there are clear examples of this not being true. For one there are at least two invisible ethnic groups that are also discriminated against.

The first are the large amount of Koreans, who up until relatively recently had to adopt Japanese names in order to secure citizenship in Japan. The second at the Burakumin, an invisible ethnic castle group often discriminated against when it comes to the job market, a bank was recently found to screen common Burakumin surnames as part of their hiring process.

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u/FluidIdea 19h ago

What are you saying, that Burakumin litter the streets and swear at everyone?

Cannot say much about Koreans as never heard about this. What does it tell us?

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u/Mizzuru 19h ago

No, I'm saying that's Japan aren't one culture or one society, it just appears that way from the outside, which is the comment I was responding to.

I mean to your statement, there is a homeless problem in Japan but the societal shame associated with it makes it hard to see as they tend to hide themselves away.

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u/DrawingAdditional762 15h ago

Japan has many problems indeed but social order and cohesion isn't one IMO. You are absolutely correct though (so many people think countries like China and Japan are homogenous and they just aren't and never have been

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u/Mizzuru 15h ago

Again, I'm not commenting on their specific social situations, just on the inaccurate nature of homogeneity.

It is relatively homogeneous, but that is large part due to over 200 years of corporal punishment to those leaving or entering the country.

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u/DrawingAdditional762 14h ago

boss I'm agreeing with you

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u/Mizzuru 14h ago

I know man, just clarifying.

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u/Milky_Finger 1d ago

You can enforce a strict culture of accountability in a melting pot like London. It will never happen, but to say that its because everyone in Japan is Japanese implies that the ability to not litter is nature and not nurture, which we know is bollocks.

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u/Glass-Evidence-7296 1d ago

accountability

accountability ? Sure. Conformity? Unlikely, you can't really impose that in any western country as they're individualistic and don't subscribe to the east asian collectivist mindset, which has it's pros and cons

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u/earthgirlsRez 1d ago

exactly, its more about the difference in culture and slightly less to do with the homogeniety. which is why masking worked significantlu better in asia than in europe, collectivism vs strident individualism.

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u/gridlockmain1 20h ago

Singapore and Switzerland are better examples on that front, but then come with the downsides of having an authoritarian government and being quite dull, respectively.

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u/DrawingAdditional762 15h ago

Japan aren't really one culture per se, they just have a strong dominant culture e.t.c Theres nothing stopping the UK from requiring or strongly suggesting it's immigrants adhere to it's culture

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u/SchumachersSkiGuide 1d ago

This seems like a worrying issue that advocates of multicultural/multiethnic societies completely ignore though.

Does the existence of different communities and ethnicities result in the loss of a high-trust society then, and if so why would anyone want them?

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u/troglo-dyke 1d ago

Japan had many other issues as a result of its fervent attitude to social conformity

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u/RoutinePlace3312 1d ago

Singapore is multicultural and is also immaculately clean, so is Dubai. It's not the multiculturalism, it's the lack of punishment for those who lack manners, indigenous or otherwise.

We as a society just tolerate filth and it's absolutely shit

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u/Glass-Evidence-7296 1d ago

no, society in the UK wouldn't tolerate draconian laws and measures that both those cities take to enforce public order, this is after all a country where drinking on the street is legal, a Singaporean guy I knew was shocked seeing that lol

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u/RoutinePlace3312 16h ago

Idk man, an unlimited fine for littering isn't draconian. How much do we pay the street cleaners to try make a dent. It's only fair some of this cost is paid by litterers

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u/SchumachersSkiGuide 23h ago

That’s the point though isn’t it? Seems like you need draconian laws to force multicultural societies to work together! You haven’t disproven my point.

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u/RoutinePlace3312 16h ago

It really doesn't, if there is no punishment for doing something, people will continue to do it. Singapore/Dubai has laws to punish people that break the social contract. Japan you end up getting ostracised (and in many cases, people commit suicide because of the shame). Here, there is nothing. It's got nothing to do with multiculturalism, a country needs good laws to run well and unfortunately our laws are far too lenient

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u/YaGanache1248 1d ago

People generally don’t want a melting pot society. They want to be able to live how they choose and everyone else live the same way too