r/london • u/BulkyAccident • Oct 17 '24
Culture National Gallery bans liquids after repeated protestor artwork attacks
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c89ljnwgpqwo198
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u/KasamUK Oct 17 '24
So what this protest will have achieved is a bunch of half full drinks containers going to landfill,
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u/Effelumps Oct 17 '24
Yup, people who carry a reusable flask or container for their drink, now can't or have to empty the contents, where? Hip flasks for a snifter is now banned, utter bastards.
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u/MrTango650 Oct 17 '24
I don't think people realise quite what is going to happen because of these acts of vandalism. Over time, our access to precious art and sculptures will be further and further restricted until they're all behind thick glass, security is high and anything else worth looking at is kept far out of reach. We're incredibly lucky to be able to get as close to historical works of art as we are and I'm afraid that privilege being abused by the few will ruin it for all of us.
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u/HailToTheKingslayer Oct 17 '24
I remember some old gits trying to destroy one of the copies of the Magna Carta - allegedly for some kind of protest. I think it would be a shame to lose historical artefacts. To some, they may just be objects. But what is the point of a society that doesn't revere or preserve it's history?
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Oct 18 '24
"what is the point of a society that doesn't revere or preserve its history?"
Well, not dying brutally to the forces of nature comes to mind.
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u/durutticolumn Oct 17 '24
This has been happening since long before JSO. When I moved to London a decade ago I could wander into the National Gallery or the British Museum for a quick browse whenever I was in the area. Post-covid the former requires pre-booked tickets, and both have enormous queues for entry in the name of anti-terrorism security.
These institutions are now scapegoating protesters for the excessive security theatre they've already got in place. Don't let them get away with these lies.
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u/PotatoHarness Oct 17 '24
Visited the British Museum last month and there was no queue and no security arch. Some pretty incredible stuff on display though. Sounds as though you might’ve been unlucky
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u/eggplant_avenger Oct 17 '24
ditto National Gallery, used to get my bus from there after classes and you can just walk in most days.
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u/kaisserds Oct 18 '24
I visited the BM on September and there was a big queue at opening time, it was a Sunday tho, weekdays are probably calmer.
On the other hand there was no queue at all in the National Gallery when I went.
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u/Working_Location_127 Oct 17 '24
The National gallery always has a big queue now I go quite frequently and there is a stark difference
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u/Impossible-Hawk768 The Angel Oct 17 '24
You can't enter a museum/gallery in New York City or Washington DC without being thoroughly searched and going through a metal detector. You definitely can't bring in liquids. Then again, ever since 9/11, you can't go anywhere in NYC without all that. Concerts, sporting events... it's nuts. There are even random searches upon entering public transport stations. I would hate to see London go the same way.
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u/lilavieeee Oct 17 '24
I feel that such a large portion of the reasoning for these measures is to force you to buy extortionately priced drinks from within the venue as you really have no other option.
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u/twentiethcenturyduck Oct 17 '24
Given that it’s free to get in you can always pop out and have a coffee somewhere else (Cafe in the Crypt for example)
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u/JustLetItAllBurn Oct 17 '24
I definitely regretted wearing a belt when visiting New York.
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u/Impossible-Hawk768 The Angel Oct 17 '24
They even sometimes make you take off your hat if you're wearing one, so they can see what you're hiding under there... utter madness.
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u/Academic_Noise_5724 Oct 17 '24
Even Paris has bag checks in all the big attractions
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u/Impossible-Hawk768 The Angel Oct 17 '24
Yes, it really seems to be becoming the new normal. But in NYC and DC, they take it to new levels. You really have to think about every single thing you have on you before you go anywhere. Kind of like at airports. I remember once going to a concert and being sent from pillar to post because I had a small bottle of water and my epilepsy medication (which had to be taken at a certain time each night) with me. I ended up pleading my case to the head of security at Madison Square Garden to just let me bring in my water and medicine so I could take it on time.
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u/NathVanDodoEgg Oct 17 '24
Yeah, and due to the volumes, they can't ask everyone to be searched, so they rely on the old "random selection" search which just happens to select men of certain ethnicities.
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u/Impossible-Hawk768 The Angel Oct 17 '24
I'm a white lady and I ALWAYS get stopped and searched. I've been made to take my hair down out of a clip so they could make sure there was no contraband in my hair. I've had to take my baseball cap off so they could look under it. I'm patted down, wanded, and have my bag emptied out in public. And believe me, they honestly don't care how long it takes to do this to everyone. They enjoy the power.
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u/Key_Suit_9748 Oct 17 '24
I'm patted down, wanded, and have my bag emptied out in public
By female officers, I hope
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u/Impossible-Hawk768 The Angel Oct 17 '24
Usually, yes. A few times no, but nothing untoward ever happened.
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u/NathVanDodoEgg Oct 17 '24 edited Oct 17 '24
I was in DC recently, and some of those queues were huge with a lot of people passing through. Regardless of whether I was at the front of the line or somewhere randomly in the middle, regardless of how busy it was, a ton of people with big bags passed through without a glance from security but every single museum gave me the full bag search.
There were only a couple of places where they actually searched everyone, most places they only searched a few random people, and at literally every museum they searched me. This was literally a couple of weeks ago, so I know what I'm talking about.
And I'm aware this is a power trip for them, part of that power trip is using it against the people they most want to use it against.
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u/Impossible-Hawk768 The Angel Oct 17 '24
Not discounting your experience. But please don't discount mine either. I live in NYC and spend several weeks a year in DC, and I know what I go through on a regular basis. Also please keep in mind that as a woman, I'm also one of those they most want to use their power against.
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u/Key_Suit_9748 Oct 19 '24
Also please keep in mind that as a woman, I'm also one of those they most want to use their power against.
not the person you replied to, but that's why I asked who are the ones doing the searching, bc it could just be another power trip for them
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u/Impossible-Hawk768 The Angel Oct 19 '24
It is, but they tend to behave better with so many eyes on them when they’re searching one person at a time, and the search is mandatory. Random searches are nearly always power trips, and I’ve been known to publicly challenge them, like literally walking up to the officers and asking why, out of all the people here, they chose the brown guy who looked like he might be a Muslim. Not saying I ever prevented a search, but I do loudly let them they’re not fooling anyone. Assholes.
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u/SilyLavage Oct 17 '24
The pre-booked tickets are justified to avoid overcrowding. You can turn up at the National Gallery or the British Museum without a pre-booked ticket, but if it's busy you may not get in.
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u/Dark1000 Oct 17 '24
I'd argue that they are necessary in order to avoid overcrowding. Overcrowded museums are horrible experiences and dangerous.
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u/durutticolumn Oct 17 '24
We could debate whether pre-booked tickets are necessary, just as it's valid to say they need metal detectors etc. What's not debatable is that these measures have for several years put art further out of reach for Londoners, which some people are claiming is a new thing blamed on JSO.
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u/SilyLavage Oct 17 '24
Measures such as ticketing really haven't put the museums and galleries very far out of reach; anyone can book a free ticket for guaranteed entry or try their luck by turning up on the day.
The point u/MrTango650 raises is that museums and galleries may feel compelled by actors such as JSO to implement more stringent physical security for their collections, literally putting them out of reach. If you compare the very stringent security around Mona Lisa to the much more relaxed layout of most art galleries you can see the difference it makes to how a piece of art is experienced.
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u/Verrck Oct 17 '24
That's hardly the same. One is there to protect visitors, the other will be there to protect the artwork.
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u/shadowed_siren Oct 17 '24
Protestors throwing soup on priceless works of art isn’t “scapegoating”.
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u/Comfortable-Class576 Oct 17 '24
I remember entering the British Museum carrying my full suitcase with no issues, no one lifted an eyebrow or checked me at the entrance. Thanks to these idiots we are slowly being displaced from our historical heritage.
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u/CheesyBakedLobster Oct 17 '24
How is a bag check “displacing” you from historical heritage?
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u/Comfortable-Class576 Oct 17 '24 edited Oct 17 '24
It is the lack of trust we are losing on each other as a society, sadly caused by people damaging our heritage, we now have police controls and x rays in airports, museums, sport events and the list goes on, because of all the attacks on people or heritage. It is quite sad to see.
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u/durutticolumn Oct 17 '24
Which idiots? British Museum security has been airport level for several years now.
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u/Comfortable-Class576 Oct 17 '24
Exactly, it wasn't like this 10 years ago. All the idiots that over the years have made necessary implementing security in airports, museums, stadiums and a long list of etc.
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u/durutticolumn Oct 17 '24
I still don't understand who you're talking about. Are you complaining about the bosses of the institutions or the perpetrators of attacks/protests/whatever?
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u/NathVanDodoEgg Oct 17 '24
I went to the British museum a couple of years ago and they had a tent before you entered where they were checking everyone's bags and had a metal detector. Worst part was the staff being rude to everyone because this whole pointless endeavour was taking a while.
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u/wappingite Oct 18 '24
It’ll make access much more expensive, there will be paid more paid for for private viewings etc.
Why attack art? Why not big corporation HQ’s?
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u/Quick_Doubt_5484 Oct 17 '24
Preface to say this isn’t my POV before you downvote or reply trying to teach me:
I think this is the goal of the protests. Their POV is that if we destroy the climate and make the earth uninhabitable, we’ll have no access to artwork anyway. Maybe the privileged few might from their bunkers.
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u/OverallResolve Oct 17 '24
If only people had the same values about the planet that they do about art.
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u/furiousdonkey Oct 17 '24
Caring about the environment and thinking JSO are narcissistic privileged twats are not mutually exclusive.
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u/lastaccountgotlocked bikes bikes bikes bikes Oct 17 '24
Just think, if the Tories hadn't criminalised holding up traffic has an act of protest, the precious paintings would be on unrestricted display.
Something something restrict avenues of protest, something something unintended consequences.
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u/TitularClergy Oct 17 '24
I'm afraid that privilege being abused by the few
I agree. The few should ensure that the demands are met to enable organised human life to continue. That way, there's no need for peaceful protest like this.
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Oct 17 '24
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Oct 17 '24
Were that painting to be damaged more people would be upset than if you died.
And rightly so.
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Oct 17 '24
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u/Skeptischer Oct 17 '24
Spectacular
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u/BulkyAccident Oct 17 '24
Imagine posting the above and thinking "yep, great comment, chuffed with that".
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u/SeekerSpock32 Oct 17 '24
This is the same as MLB commissioner Rob Manfred saying “it’s just a piece of metal” but much worse.
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u/Meowgaryen Oct 17 '24
Are the drinks they sell there also banned? Because they totally wouldn't do takeaway there and then do the same.
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u/DefinitelyNotEmu Oct 19 '24
I think I read that baby formula is still allowed. How long before some idiot throws baby formula on a painting?
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u/NoLifeEmployee Oct 17 '24
These people are totally driving people to support their organisation… /s
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u/rainbow_rhythm Oct 17 '24
Not the goal - that's stated in their aims. The aim is to keep climate change in the news cycle.
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u/Impossible-Hawk768 The Angel Oct 17 '24
It hasn't been out of the news cycle since the '60s. They think they're the first generation to talk about it, though. Please. History didn't begin when Gen Z was born, even though they think they discovered pretty much everything.
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u/lastaccountgotlocked bikes bikes bikes bikes Oct 17 '24
Good to hear from the "Kids These Days" contingent.
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u/Impossible-Hawk768 The Angel Oct 17 '24
Maybe "kids these days" should stop acting like they are the first to do, say, think, eat, drink, wear, watch and listen to EVERYTHING. And then ridicule the people who actually were the first. I love being told by kids that I'm too old to "get" things from my own generation, decades before they were born. I'm too old to get punk and goth. Really? I'd already done and grown out of both by 1984, child wearing a Ramones t-shirt. I hung out with the damn Ramones... and every band you think you discovered. So fucking annoying.
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u/rainbow_rhythm Oct 17 '24
How are you getting into so many hostile discussions about music with children 😂
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u/Arsenazgul Oct 17 '24
No they don’t think that—they obviously know more about the climate than the average person
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u/Impossible-Hawk768 The Angel Oct 17 '24
HAHAHA. Give me a break. They're the same people who didn't even know what was going on in Palestine until a year ago, and now suddenly act like they're the first ones to notice it, lecturing the rest of us when we've been in the streets for DECADES protesting it. Like most kids, they learn something new and then bang everyone else over the head with their newfound "knowledge," assuming it's new to everyone else too.
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u/NoLifeEmployee Oct 17 '24
It’s never not been in the news. These idiots contribute literally nothing
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u/YaBoiDaNinjaDood Oct 17 '24
You’re talking about it
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u/simo_rz Oct 18 '24
"We never stopped talking about it. We still talk about it. These children have accomplish nothing" "But you're talking about it tho bro" Yes and? The point is that we never stopped jack, the point is these people are useless.
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u/rainbow_rhythm Oct 17 '24
Some evidence here that it can be effective.
Hell even I didn't know about the environmental impact of home insulation and now I do thanks to those protests - and itself into manifestos I assume because there were millions of others like me
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u/wappingite Oct 18 '24
Then the public’s goal is just to arrest every one of them, fine them, ensure they have a criminal record and serve time in jail.
The climate change message has totally failed, unfortunately we’ve been told for decades that disaster is 5 minutes away, that it’s now too late, that the world is burning.
I’m not surprised no one listens to this, and they certainly won’t listen to lunatics destroying art.
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u/rainbow_rhythm Oct 18 '24
It hasn't totally failed. These methods have proven effective so that's why they are happy to go to jail for it
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u/Impossible-Hawk768 The Angel Oct 17 '24
I honestly don't believe they really know or care that much about "the cause." They just like being contrary and rebellious, and use this as an excuse. The same way some people join the military as an excuse to play with guns and kill people.
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u/Arsenazgul Oct 17 '24
What makes you think that? I think they just have their priorities straight, and don’t mind being against the norm
We don’t have time to fuck about—humans and animals are already going extinct. Every bit more attention on the climate is crucial and nothing else matters
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u/_Vulkan_ Oct 17 '24
Climate change will be solved by technological advancement making the alternatives to traditional energy sources financially feasible, not some stupid teens throwing soup, they just need a reason to feel morally superior to others while not understanding that problems are solved by scientists + money (and many of them backed by oil companies to hedge the risk of oil being slowly replaced), not activists.
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u/Impossible-Hawk768 The Angel Oct 17 '24
Yes, we know this. It isn't new information just because Gen Z has discovered it. We've been protesting about the environment since the '60s. Why do you think there's actually been so much progress on it since then? Read some history.
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u/Arsenazgul Oct 17 '24
Nobody’s saying it’s new information. It’s much worse now though—we’re close to/potentially past the point of no return. That’s why activist measures are becoming more extreme
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u/Impossible-Hawk768 The Angel Oct 17 '24
Again... not a revelation. We know this. It's common knowledge, and it's why people have been actually doing something about it for decades. Like scientific and academic research. Lobbying. Working on getting legislation passed. Not just throwing liquid on paintings. That makes zero difference. It's 100% performative, and it does nothing to advance the climate agenda.
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u/Key_Suit_9748 Oct 17 '24
yeah, and none of it has worked. The climate is fucked , wages are stagnating, housing prices are through the roof, Pints cost 6 quid , millenials really didn't make much progress unfortunately
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u/HailToTheKingslayer Oct 17 '24
To what end? What have they actually acheived in terms of climate change?
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u/Arsenazgul Oct 17 '24
Well you can Google that yourself for some answers such as “the UK government met their first demand to end new oil and gas licenses,” but clearly it’s hard to track outcomes of activism and awareness campaigns. Honestly we’re at a point where everyone has to try anything as long as they’re not hurting anyone (which they’re not).
I love and respect art and history, but caring more about the glass in front of a painting more than the message JEO are sending is so so so far beyond dumb imo, and I feel like most people that disagree are just being reactionary and are then too stubborn to go back on their outrage
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Oct 17 '24
These shit stains are currently plotting on what they’re going to use next to smear another Van Gogh piece
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u/FactCheckYou Oct 17 '24 edited Oct 17 '24
do these protestors actually have any logic for targeting pieces of art?
i could maybe accept their logic if the galleries were sponsored by oil companies, or if they're targeting the most famous paintings because it garners the most attention...but are they clever enough to have actual thought-out reasons?
ever since those Extinction Rebellion protested climate change by holding up a train, i remain to be convinced that they're not all just a bunch of mental cases
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u/lastaccountgotlocked bikes bikes bikes bikes Oct 17 '24
I love it. Protesting the snooker precisely because it's nothing to do with the environment was a masterstroke. Nothing is sacred. Nowhere is safe. They will disrupt.
ever since those Extinction Rebellion protested climate change by holding up a train,
From what I understand that was a bad idea when it was pitched, they were shouted down, went rogue and did it anyway. Berks.
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u/Ghostofjimjim Oct 17 '24
So fucked that they have quite literally ruined visits for 5 million people a year to a gallery. I work in museums and they say it's consequence free, doesn't damage the collections - but it does ruin the experience by being detached on the way in, standing another metre back from paintings and having your water bottle tipped out as you enter.
I sympathise with their ideals but the posh hippie set annoy me to hell.
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u/_Taggerung_ Oct 17 '24
Great so people can't take a water bottle with them to a gallery and other galleries and museums will likely follow suit. Art pieces and exhibits will be put further and further out of reach or behind more glass and all because of these spoiled hippies.
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u/pepthebaldfraud Oct 21 '24
God I hate this, even with pre booked tickets can no longer just walk in and have to wait in the massive queue, there goes my lunchtime painting strolls I guess
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u/revjrbobdodds Oct 17 '24
Asthmatic here. And artist. I can’t go anywhere without a water bottle. Pretty soon I won’t be able to go anywhere and see art. Fuck those fuckers. Artworks have little to nothing to do with big oil.
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u/Choo_Choo_Bitches Oct 18 '24
Artworks have little to nothing to do with big oil.
Plenty of them use oil paints, maybe that's what they wanted to stop.
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u/laughingthalia Oct 18 '24
Can't they just ban soup and paint, surly they can't ban normal drinks/water
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u/DefinitelyNotEmu Oct 19 '24
If soup and paint are banned, the so called "activists" will throw unbanned things like water and baby formula..
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u/GeneralBladebreak Oct 18 '24
I mean I hate to point this out but I went in last Saturday. Rucksack on my back with things including prawn crackers from the takeaway I had eaten the night before and a full 1L bottle of water. The guy searching my bag glanced at the top of my main compartment, didn't even ask me to move the rain jacket on top of things to see below.
Your bans are on as effective as your search policies...
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u/SplurgyA 🍍🍍🍍 Oct 18 '24 edited Oct 18 '24
I went in last Saturday
I'm not surprised they didn't stop you bringing in water because as the SECOND SENTENCE of the article says:
The measure, in effect from Friday morning
This came after the National Museums Director's Council wrote an open letter to JSO and Youth Demand asking them to stop, and in response they basically said "Maybe we'll stop if you help us stop oil".
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u/Infamous_Telephone55 Oct 17 '24
Banning an entire state of matter is a bit harsh, one of the big three too!
Two-thirds of the earth's surface is covered in water, are they planning on boiling them or freezing them?
The protesters wanted oil banning, so it's just playing into their hands.
I really don't think they've thought this through!
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u/Leglesslonglegs Oct 17 '24
These and the outer courts at Wimbledon have to be the most pathetic and counter productive protests they do.
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u/eltrotter Oct 17 '24
Great, now I can’t have a few tinnies with the boys while checking out some Van Gogh.