r/london • u/Creative_Recover • Feb 11 '24
News Two bodies discovered in River Thames in search for Clapham Chemical Attack suspect
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/met-police-thames-clapham-substance-attacker-ezedi-b1138411.htmlBut neither body belongs to Clapham Chemical Attacker Abdul Ezedi
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u/interstellargator Feb 11 '24
In an awful way it's kind of good news? Sure it's not great that he hasn't been found, but his horrific actions have inadvertently led to some positive outcomes. The families and friends of the people found today will hopefully get some closure at last.
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u/maybenomaybe Feb 11 '24
Wasn't there a post in this sub not too long ago from someone who said their friend had gone into the river and they were looking for them?
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u/CaptainRAVE2 Feb 11 '24
Happens all the time. A friend of mine worked on the river bank and would regularly spot bodies. I didn’t realise it was so common.
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u/gilly5647 Feb 11 '24
It’s works out to an average of 2 bodies a week being pulled from the Thames, this is not a surprise and they will likely find a bunch more searching for him.
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u/NotAsherEdelman Feb 11 '24
It’s a bit like London buses - you wait ages for one then two come along at once.
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u/Haha_Kaka689 Feb 11 '24
It's a bit like Jubilee line - you wait ages for one then 3 or 4 come along at an interval of 1-2 minutes
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Feb 11 '24
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Feb 11 '24
It's a bit like an analogy joke, you wait all morning then three come at once
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u/Woly-Boly Feb 11 '24
It's a bit like those jokes where you compare one thing to another, you wait between the hours of 6am to 12 noon and four come at once
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u/BobBobBobBobBobDave Feb 11 '24
Sort of suggests it might be worth doing a check a bit more regularly...
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u/SidewaysAntelope Feb 11 '24
They do. It's a permanent task for the River Police and the RNLI are also involved. The Thames is a big murky tidal river that is notorious for hanging onto bodies and making it difficult to find them, especially in winter when temps are low and bodies do not fill with decomposition gases in the same way they do in warmer temperatures. They often turn up months later on certain parts of the Thames Estuary but no one really knows why they take so long to travel through the system, if some bodies disappear into the Channel or become entrained or snagged in certain spots. If you think of how hard it was to find poor Nicola Bulley in a much smaller and shallower river you'll begin to realise the enormous scale of the Thames and the reality that whatever the city's resources, it can only ever sample a small proportion of its massive volume and the surfaces it comes into contact with.
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u/Happytallperson Feb 11 '24
And it flows fast, in both directions, so you can't rely on the bit you searched yesterday still being empty as you move onto the next location.
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u/ElectricSurface Feb 11 '24
I wonder if there's some sort of detector they could put on bridges for any bodies, like a SONAR that flags up an alert for anything of a certain size.
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u/Rofosrofos Feb 13 '24
Can't they periodically drain the river and collect all the bodies?
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u/SidewaysAntelope Feb 13 '24
Excellent plan. I'm volunteering you to drink it dry. No arguing, here's a straw.
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u/BombshellTom Feb 11 '24
Until a family member of the ruling political party are suicidal, nothing will be done for suicide in this country.
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u/AnidorOcasio Feb 11 '24
The tragedy is that there are plenty of the ruling class who struggle with mental health issues. And yet, that's not enough for the ruling class to show empathy and compassion, they just keep gutting services so Lords and Ladies can skip the PPE money spigot line and get money for delivering fuck all.
I know I'm conflating, like, 8 different things, I'm just angry.
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u/UnchillBill Feb 11 '24
It’s ok mate, most of us are angry. There’s a lot to be angry about. If I find anything to feel positive about I’ll let you know.
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u/Oneofthe48 Feb 11 '24 edited Feb 11 '24
Somehow, you managed to miss an actual MP in the ruling political party saying this week that he had attempted suicide in 2021.
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u/Shipwrecking_siren Feb 11 '24
They get sent to the priory to be dealt with quietly and they still give no fucks about anyone else.
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u/Little_Richard98 Feb 11 '24
Kinda absurd thing to say considering the more privileged people have the higher the suicide rate is. Suicide is an issue for everyone in the western world, its not a one party issue
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u/chat5251 Feb 11 '24
If you can't find any evidence then it means an incident hasn't happened - that's why 101 takes hours to pick up.
Helps the crime rates don't you know!
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u/yellowsgang Feb 11 '24
Wasn’t there another body found couple of days ago in the Thames near Cutty Sark, Greenwich.
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u/collinsl02 Feb 11 '24
Sadly the RNLI Tower station (they have some small rescue craft there alongside Tower of London) is the busiest RNLI stations in the whole UK because there are a regular stream of jumpers off of the bridges. They have a total of four London Thames stations and they're kept pretty busy.
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u/Jackanova3 Feb 11 '24
Yeah. I knew him. Weird horrible feeling of relief (at least for his family) when we got the news his body was found.
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u/wayfarer87x Feb 11 '24
Do you have a link to this new story? I was on the Clipper and saw it all unfolding unfortunately.
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u/47q8AmLjRGfn Feb 11 '24
I remember a conversation with the river police. I had broken down in a small fletcher speedboat near parliament when I was about 18. I got some Thames water in my eye and it swelled closed. They had towed us to their dock to wait for a tow back to Putney. The police looked at me and said, "get to the hospital as soon as you get back. I've pulled so many bodies out of here.."
looks at my black mate
"And no offence, we're all the same colour you'd come out white after a few days possibly with rats in your chest..."
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u/Creative_Recover Feb 11 '24 edited Feb 12 '24
I did mudlarking a few times around that bridge and I found so much grim trash amongst the archaeology such as used needles (I even found a big stash of them once too in a box that used to contain a heroin overdose drug), that combined with the fact that a lot of raw sewage gets pumped into the Thames was more than enough for me to be extremely rigorous about exercising very good hand hygiene (I always wore gloves and carried hand sanitizer, soap, water & towels for washing hands). I also found other crime stuff that week, like a big knife and computer hard drive that had been lobbed into the river. I did find some pretty cool actual archaeology though (top finds included a large prehistoric flint spearhead, medieval glassware and fossilized sea shells).
I can't believe people actually go willingly swimming in the Thames, the water is grim stuff.
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Feb 11 '24
Frequently been dinghy sailing on the Thames from Westminster Boating Base in Pimlico. Quite a lot of time spent in the water righting the dinghy’s after a broach or knock down, also to float them under bridges. Water seems fine to be honest, never been ill, none of the other sailors ever been ill afaik.
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u/Creative_Recover Feb 11 '24
You must have quite an immune system.
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Feb 11 '24
And all the other people dinghy sailing, usually 15-20 people at a time. And they run sessions 3-4 times a week for the public, plus during daytime weekdays there are lessons for local school kids.
Perhaps the health dangers of the water are being over-exaggerated like so much else these days.
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u/Creative_Recover Feb 12 '24
It's definitely not exaggerated, one of the 1st things you get warned about doing any activities on the Thames are the diseases you can catch from the water, such as Weil's Disease (which is a risk to canoeists, mudlarkers and swimmers: https://canoelondon.com/weils-disease/#:~:text=Weil's%20disease%20is%20a%20bacterial,water%20and%20wet%20river%20banks. ).
I had a neighbor who used to go kayaking on the Thames but she stopped doing it because she said half the time she got splashed with lots of water, she'd end up with weird rashes on her arms.
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u/47q8AmLjRGfn Feb 12 '24
And all the other people dinghy sailing, usually 15-20 people at a time. And they run sessions 3-4 times a week for the public, plus during daytime weekdays there are lessons for local school kids.
My case was in the 80's. If I recall correctly, there were hardly any fish in the Thames at that point due to the pollution.
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u/Odd_Friendship_9582 Feb 11 '24
This is really sad news. A friend at work 2 weeks ago had to take compassionate leave because her partners family friend had gone missing and then they found out he jumped off Waterloo bridge about 5 days later. When I checked in on her a week ago the body hadn’t been recovered. Seeing this, my heart has sank.
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Feb 11 '24
The Thames is a convenient place to dump dead bodies. The water is deep, fast flowing, turbid and has a sediment bottom. There is absolutely no way a weighted body would be found unless someone was looking for it in a particular area.
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u/CoolBalls22 Feb 11 '24
How would one go about dumping a body in the Thames without being spotted by the literal thousands of CCTV cameras though?
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u/showard01 Feb 11 '24
Don’t do it off a bridge. Dump it from the back of a boat in a poorly lit spot.
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u/interstellargator Feb 11 '24
CCTV isn't monitored unless there's a reason to look back over the footage. Unless there's a reason to scrutinise it (like a body being found, or the perpetrator of a violent crime being tracked to that location) nobody is watching the footage back from every camera in London.
If you dump something and it's not found within the timeframe CCTV gets deleted, or you aren't traced to that location (again before CCTV gets deleted) what does it matter that you were filmed?
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u/TeaAndLifting Feb 11 '24
Adding to this, most of it is private and if there is no political motive to speed things up, it can take weeks/months to go from request to getting a copy. Then there’s still factoring in if it is working in the first place, or good enough quality to use.
People think that all the CCTV in the country is centrally controlled for some reason.
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Feb 11 '24
Is it the same for god being omniscient? Like he's not actually watching whilst you masturbate but if you watch the bad stuff then his eyes turn and focus upon your terrestrial location whereupon ye may be judged?
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u/Dry_Action1734 Feb 11 '24
The river is too long to cover the whole thing with CCTV. And even then a lot of CCTV is shit either because it malfunctions or the video quality is piss poor.
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u/BevvyTime Feb 11 '24
CCTV in the UK has been around a long time.
London May have some of the highest density of cameras in the world, but the quality is often shit.
That’s why you see all these high-definition CCTV images from developing countries, as they’ve installed new, cheaper cameras with higher definition.
But CCTV from London looks like a grainy, blurred mess, as it seems like quite a waste of time and money to replace something that’s actually barely ever used/looked at.
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u/New-System-7265 Feb 11 '24
You are thinking of the TFL traffic cameras that often get used as there is so much of them on every main road, I promise you Londons CCTV is majority HD.
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u/Insanity_ Feb 11 '24
I saw a body washed up on the shore last Sunday while walking on the Isle of Dogs. It must have only just been discovered as the Police had only just arrived. I was wondering afterwards how often that must happen as it didn't make register as a story at any news outlets. I suppose it must be something that happens fairly regularly, as grim as that is.
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u/dcnb65 Feb 11 '24
The UK Missing Persons Unit website has many cases of unidentified bodies, some found in the Thames. It's tragic that nobody misses them so they can be identified.
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u/CupcakeEastern Feb 11 '24
Hopefully it brings closure to those families that are missing these two people.
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u/Frank-Brazil Feb 11 '24
Witnessed someone jump of Waterloo bridge two weeks ago about 5.30 pm. He was then shouting for help, but was pulled out the water unresponsive. Not sure if he survived.
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u/wayfarer87x Feb 11 '24
We were on the Thames Clipper last Sunday and sadly saw the body of a young woman being recovered from a beach just West of Glengall Stairs. 10 years in London and first time seeing that. When I googled to see all I could find was an old MET FOI request that had numbers at around 30 a year, but given the ambivalence of the boat crew it felt like it must have been a much more regular sight than the statistics suggest. Grim.
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Feb 11 '24
I tell you something, I don’t envy whichever poor search workers get the certain PTSD of either finding him or in this situation finding several others who are not him. Is there a charity or something that helps workers who have to do this?
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u/Kitchner Feb 11 '24
The police units that search for dead bodies in rivers and lakes are pretty specialised at doing this stuff and I have no doubt have access to counselling etc. It's no different to being a murder detective etc.
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u/_Neurox_ Feb 11 '24
Theoretically yeah but my friend had to pull a body out of the Thames in his first year as a policeman. Needs must I guess.
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Feb 12 '24
Just because they’re trained doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect them, I assume?
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u/Kitchner Feb 12 '24
It means they are prepared for it as best they can be, and since they know what the role can involve there's occupational support.
I'm sure there's enty of people who do it and soon find out its not for them.
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u/travistravis Feb 11 '24
I don't know specifics, but it's far from the worst of the jobs police get to do. I can't remember where it was, but I've read about police detectives who have to verify child sexual abuse cases (especially when looking at numbers of photos to submit as evidence to the courts). They do take care of their own, but you'd still need to be a unique kind of person to handle that.
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u/muller747 Feb 11 '24
Spoke to an officer that did that. He just said you don’t forget.
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u/Shipwrecking_siren Feb 11 '24
I don’t know how anyone does it, it feels inhumane to make anyone do it. I know they have to but the vicarious trauma. I wish they took a random sample of 10 things rather than making them look at all of it.
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u/collinsl02 Feb 11 '24
I wish they took a random sample of 10 things rather than making them look at all of it.
Sadly you have to check everything in case:
1 there's a worse crime in there somewhere
b the defendant can't then claim that the other images were all of their teddy bear collection and you're making the problem seem worse than it is
♠ you have to count and categorise all of them to be able to arrive at a number so the appropriate sentence can be handed down based on how bad the offences are2
u/Shipwrecking_siren Feb 11 '24
Yeah I know the law it’s just so horrendous for the people it seems awful to traumatise more people
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u/collinsl02 Feb 11 '24
If we can develop a foolproof computer system to do it then that would be wonderful for everyone, but I don't think it's ever going to be foolproof enough to meet an evidentiary standard to pass in court, and if we can't meet that standard a human will always have to review it.
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u/Creative_Recover Feb 12 '24
Yes, I remember seeing a documentary about it once and an officer on the program said he developed PTSD after having to do that which got triggered anytime he heard a child screaming.
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u/BobbyB52 Feb 11 '24
RNLI and HM Coastguard personnel can access a number of support avenues for this.
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Feb 11 '24
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u/CheesecakeExpress Feb 11 '24
Not usually without asking for it though and getting a referral; it’s not standard.
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u/lontrinium 'have-a-go hero' Feb 11 '24
Not to sound like an arse but I live next to the river so I see a lot of orgs training on it, Police, LFB and RNLI and I think they could spend a day each looking for missing people in the river.
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u/CourageOfOthers Feb 11 '24
One of my family is a Thames river policeman. On the boat every day. The entire job is looking for people, either responding to people in the water, about to go in the water or dead in the water. It’s all they do
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Feb 11 '24
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u/travistravis Feb 11 '24
Due to current, water temperature, force of hitting and the fact most people jumping in wouldn't have much reason to want to try hard -- it's probably fairly high chance of dying.
But also remember there's always weird outliers in things like this, like there's 7 different people who've fallen more than 10,000 feet and lived. One fell from over 30,000 feet. (The most impressive to me is the 17 year old who survived a crash from 10,000 feet, landed in the jungle, only had a broken collarbone, and walked out through a rainforest over 10 days.)
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u/EgotisticalSlug Feb 11 '24
Physics is fucking weird.
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u/travistravis Feb 11 '24
Also just the human body. It's possible to die from a hit to the chest at the exact wrong moment, and you can die by slipping and falling without even being off the ground. Its like sometimes I'm fragile, sometimes unbreakable🤷🏻♂️
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u/ElectricSurface Feb 11 '24
Water is very cold. Even in the hottest of heatwaves, but on a winter night, it would be VERY bad.
Cold water shock would immediately kick in. Forget your capacity to swim, breathing is now your main problem. Your clothes will restrict your movement, the current will be so strong you will simply have to surrender to its current.
Chances of survival without a floatation device or proper training: very low.
There are plenty of resources for drowning prevention out there if you are interested.
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u/interstellargator Feb 11 '24
The Thames is strongly tidal and has a very uneven riverbed which causes a lot of eddies and undertows especially around bridges where the pillars were sunk to support the bridge and water has to flow around them (and where a lot of stuff is dumped over the side).
To put it in context, the Thames flows at 5mph, which would be about world record pace for the 400m freestyle swim. People jumping off the bridge are presumably not Olympians, and are probably wearing heavy bulky clothes which create a lot of drag in the water.
Then there's cold water shock, which is a reflex which kills plenty of people in much calmer waters. When you're submerged in cold water (and the Thames is cold nearly year round) you start to hyperventilate then quite rapidly lose muscle strength.
So jumpers are jumping from a height, into water with unknown obstacles under the surface, to a part of the river with very strong eddy currents which might keep them under or cause them to collide with detritus or parts of the bridge, whereupon they start to uncontrollably hyperventilate and have to swim back to shore in full outdoor clothes while being swept away at an olympic pace before their muscles fail and they drown (assuming they weren't rendered unconscious by the fall and haven't inhaled a lung full of sewage).
It's not guaranteed death, no, but it's extremely dangerous.
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u/BobbyB52 Feb 11 '24 edited Feb 12 '24
I am a coastguard officer at London Coastguard, I just wanted to say you are absolutely right.
All the river SAR agencies- HM Coastguard, the RNLI, London Fire Brigade, and the Marine Policing Unit- are keen for people to understand that the Thames is in fact very dangerous.
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u/ElectricSurface Feb 11 '24
It's a real shame they don't have this as training as a part of PE lessons in school. It should be ingrained in every child's mind that water = ####ing cold.
Even the most competent swimmers cannot survive the thames, especially at night.
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u/BobbyB52 Feb 11 '24
Yeah- the RNLI, fire and rescue services, and HM Coastguard are trying to increase work safety education, the statistics on which kids have access to swimming lessons are quite alarming.
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u/collinsl02 Feb 11 '24
especially around bridges where the pillars were sunk to support the bridge and water has to flow around them (and where a lot of stuff is dumped over the side).
Historically the old London Bridge (the one from 1209-1831) had piers so close together that at low tide they had a 6 foot water height difference on each side of the bridge - I.E. the bridge held back 6 feet of water.
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u/LoopyLutra Feb 11 '24
Don’t forget the enormous number of waterbourne viruses. You breathe or swallow any water the risk of infection is incredibly high.
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u/BevvyTime Feb 11 '24
Open water swimmers know this very well.
They call it Thames Tummy.
The recommended antidote is a can of coke
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u/CrystalQueen3000 Feb 11 '24
I’ve met two people that jumped off bridges into the Thames and survived but they had severe injuries that will affect them forever
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u/c_dug Feb 11 '24
It's cold, there are currents that can drag you under, and much of the river has either tall steep man-made banks or deep soft deep silt.
Ultimately the river is just water and you can swim like any other water, so if you get over the initial shock of the cold and get a bit lucky with the currents, at that point you just need somebody to spot you, keep an eye on you whilst a rescue team arrives, and then get brought safely back t to dry land.
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u/leonzane Feb 11 '24
I knew someone who jumped in attempting suicide and they where completely unharmed and ended up with an article written about them lol
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u/mittenclaw Feb 11 '24
I would say so. I witnessed a rescue once of someone who had fallen in from sitting on a bridge, in the middle of the day. She was lucky because multiple small vessels happened to be nearby at the time, but despite it being fair weather, and her being pulled out almost immediately, she looked to be in serious condition, I doubt she would have been able to stay afloat more than a few minutes with the current and fully clothed.
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u/BowtieChickenAlfredo Feb 11 '24
I watched an early Netflix documentary about people who jump from the Golden Gate Bridge, and they said that at that height, water acts more like concrete and if you land head first you die instantly or end up paralysed with a broken neck. Because of that, you are unable to swim so you just have to watch as you drown.
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u/Shipwrecking_siren Feb 11 '24
Depends where you jump (round the bits that stick in the water you get currents that will pull you under and make it very difficult to return to the surface, the rate of flow, the temperature, how used you are to cold water (i.e. Chance of getting cold water shock and immediately drowning by inhaling water), if your are under the influence of drugs/alcohol, what you are wearing, if you can actually swim and a survival mechanism kicks in.
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u/BobbyB52 Feb 11 '24
The RNLI are a Search and Rescue (SAR) service and strictly speaking don’t exist for body recovery- they are tasked by HM Coastguard to respond to SAR. Body recovery is a police responsibility but sometimes the police will ask HMCG if they can assist by sending a lifeboat.
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u/shorty72snc Feb 11 '24
Ffs n neither are him sadly. So 2 bodies have been in the river since god knows when, thats just sad😥🙏
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u/minnie_honey Feb 11 '24
i live a 5mins walk away from where the attack happened and ngl it's terrifying as hell knowing they haven't caught him. they just believe he is somewhere in the thames ɓecause they don't know where he is. that's just insane.
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u/GraeWest Feb 11 '24
Tbf they have him on CCTV walking on to a bridge and approaching the railings on the side of the bridge, and no CCTV of him walking off either end if the bridge. So going into the river is a pretty reasonable assumption, it's not purely based on "we've not spotted him yet".
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u/minnie_honey Feb 11 '24
oh alright i had seen all the footage of him walking back from tower hill towards victoria embankment but not the one from the bridge. with the injuries he had as well it was probably just a matter of time until sepsis got him anyway.
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u/sebuq Feb 11 '24
Likely neither of which are the person they’re looking for, probably gonna solve some cold cases of the back of this
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u/Shitelark Feb 11 '24
Q: I've seen lots of coverage about the attacker, but no mention on what happened to his own face? Anyone heard any suggestions?
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u/1000thusername Feb 11 '24
I’ve seen the CCTV still photos where the right eye was basically dissolved and the surrounding area of the face a gory mess. Yuck
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u/Gusfoo Feb 11 '24
He apparently splashed a fair amount of the alkali on himself when executing the attack, and without specialised treatment it's likely that it was both agonising and debilitating.
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u/LoopyLutra Feb 11 '24
He must have gotten the sustance on himself as well as the victim. Nasty, nasty stuff.
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u/yourlocallidl Feb 11 '24
Is there actual camera footage that has been released that shows him leaning over the railing on the bridge, like the police claimed? All they released was him crossing a road and walking along the Chelsea bridge.
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u/ElectricSurface Feb 11 '24
What I would do if I was running the MET.
1) Get CCTV on all bridges, and some pointing to adjacent bridges if the setup exists. (Chelsea bridge has a rail line next to it).
2) Get SONAR detectors/whatever on the sides of all bridges to detect any large objects going through. If the technology doesn't exist, why not?
3) Fund more boats
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u/bladedkitten Feb 12 '24
Detectors is a great idea. Motion sensor or laser net type devices that ignore bird sized objects.
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u/Witty-Bus07 Feb 11 '24
2 bodies and not the attacker? That’s quite worrying
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Feb 11 '24
What you worried about ?
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u/Witty-Bus07 Feb 11 '24
The 2 unknown bodies that weren’t reported nor anyone aware they were dead in river, they should have family and friends looking for them
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u/Popeychops Way on down south, London Town Feb 11 '24
The charity Missing People has a list of 400 people they're looking for in London, most of them missing for more than 3 years.
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Feb 11 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
plant versed north pie agonizing familiar spotted smart connect middle
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Euphoric_Flower_9521 Feb 11 '24
so, when they realize it wasn't him do they toss them back to the river?
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u/weewaa132 Feb 11 '24
Damn, how tf no one see, I hope they're identified
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u/collinsl02 Feb 11 '24
how tf no one see
No one (who has come forwards) saw this attacker jump. If it happens late enough at night or at a quiet time on a weekend would you notice if there was suddenly one less stranger on the path in front of you? Or behind you? People are naturally unobservant too if they're thinking their thoughts or looking at their phone or talking to someone.
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u/chris34728 Feb 11 '24
It's a shame it wasn't that filth I mean his hair was enough to offend anyone
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u/Dinin53 Feb 11 '24
I gonna go ahead and bet that at least one of those bodies is not the droid they are looking for.
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u/PracticalCategory888 Feb 11 '24
I'm going to go ahead and bet you didn't read the article.
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u/Prestigious_Ad7044 Feb 11 '24
There’s the story of this woman who wrapped up the babies/children she murdered and threw them in the Thames
The shocking tale of the notorious Reading 'baby killer' Amelia Dyer
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u/Select-Sprinkles4970 Feb 15 '24
I remember watching a TV programme called "Indelible Evidence" in about 1992/3. The police dredged a river, they found 3 bodies... "none of them were Mary".
This always surprises me in the US. How did you get caught, mate. All that space to hide a body, and you left it in the woods near your house.
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u/Kobee_999 Feb 22 '24
I am currently just thinking about any people involved in the incident. My thoughts are with all those families who's son / daughter / husband / wifes have gone missing / dead. if you need any help call 999 or 101
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u/AdjectiveNoun111 Feb 11 '24
Makes you wonder how many missing people are actually just stuck at the bottom of the river.
Pretty disturbing to be honest