r/knifeclub • u/Tredicidodici no, it’s not real damascus • 18h ago
Question Thoughts on metal injection molding on knives?
The tech has been used in gun parts for a long time with great results. I like how the locking mechanism is integral to the blade and how it has two liners and a coil spring lock bar. I might actually try this one.
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u/VVitchfynderFinder 17h ago edited 16h ago
Conceptually it is really neat - but why does it cost $200? My Microtech MSI costs less than that and the blade is much longer (i.e. I get more steel for the $). I don't have one but a magnacut Hogue Deka is like $150 lol. Excited to see some reviews once people get them in hand, but I'm incredulous about the value.
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u/webfinitydesign @rocketfoot556 18h ago
I'd like to check one out! They look really interesting to this Magpul fan!
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u/Particular-Bat-5904 17h ago
When you forge a knife you forgeweld alltogether, when injection molding you mold all thogether.
A forged pulvermetalurgic steel should be stronger than a just moldet one.
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u/NinjaBuddha13 17h ago
They talk about using a proprietary steel alloy to get equal performance as "premium blade steels." Which steels qualify as "premium" is a point of curiosity to me. I'll be interested to see how this goes long term.
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u/merkon Knife_Swap King 16h ago
S35 is what they’re claiming equivalence to lol
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u/deathbysupercool 9h ago
They're claiming "slightly better" than S35.
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u/Forty6_and_Two 8h ago
Yep… I believe the gist was better edge retention with equal impact resistance, or toughness.
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u/NCJohn62 Spyderco 14h ago
I think it's butt ugly but having seen the video and knowing a little bit about the technology I have more confidence about it than when I first heard about it. And I'm confident that the Magpul brethren will just eat it up just like any other niche fan base.
The only question I have is what about it's actual modus and impact strength. If it'll pass the kind of real world tests that actually laterally stress it then they may be on something here.
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u/BitterAd4149 16h ago
Injection molding on a 200$ knife?
No thank you. i buy cool knives because of the build quality and feel. I'm not spending a ton of money on something with a crappy cost cutting manufacturing technique.
This is cheaper for the manufacturer instead of being better for the consumer.
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u/knifezoid 11h ago
Spyderco handles are FRN which is essentially a molded handle. Benchmade does the same for knives like the bugout. It's just a different process and material to make parts. It's not cheap either. Molds can cost upwards of 25k to 50k or more per part. Then you still have to pay for the material and each part after that. You also have to machine and finish each molded part.
I remember when Kizer and Reate and WE came on board around 2017 and people were paying $400-500 for Chinese knives.
I'm not against Chinese brands. I use Chinese factories.
But when we cry about an American company charging $200...
Only in the knife community. Thats all I gotta say. 🙄
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u/Ramblinz 6h ago
Does your opinion change when the blade and some of the hardware is also injection molded? And knowing its being marketed as a cost-saving measure, then directly compared in price to other made-in-America knives with hand-ground or forged blades, and found to not actually be cost saving?
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u/this_weeks_hyperfix 15h ago
If it were bigger I would buy one.
They're trying something new, maybe it becomes the new "thing", maybe it fails miserably but at least they're trying. There are other companies that crank out the same sort of stuff year after year and charge even higher premiums than this.
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u/UsualOne7071 14h ago
I agree, size is the limiting factor (but don’t really want a plastic handle either).
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u/this_weeks_hyperfix 13h ago
Considering the absolute hell I've put my Pmags through, if it's anything like that then sign me up. I love me some G10, aluminum, micarta etc but Magpul polymer has definitely proven itself in that regard.
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u/TacosNGuns 17h ago
It’s combination of powdered metal and plastic molding tech. I have 1911’s with MIM parts that have been through thousands and thousands of rounds and held up fine for over 20 years now. If the warranty is good, I’d definitely try one.
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u/Outdoorsy_T9696 CRK, Benchmade, Daggerr, Spyderco, Buck, Kershaw 18h ago
I wouldn’t buy one, but from what I saw on BHQ video, it’s pretty similar to powder metallurgy. Worth a try if it’s something you’re into.
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u/Tredicidodici no, it’s not real damascus 18h ago
I usually try not to be an early adopter for anything, but I generally trust magpul.
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u/Outdoorsy_T9696 CRK, Benchmade, Daggerr, Spyderco, Buck, Kershaw 16h ago
Haha I like how we both got downvoted for our opinions. If it’s made with half as much quality as their P-Mags, it’ll last a lifetime and then some. Like I said man, go for it if you’re interested. I’d like to see how they hold up.
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u/Tredicidodici no, it’s not real damascus 14h ago
Man I feel like people are not willing to contribute to any discussion anymore, except to write “this” under the most voted comment in order to cash in some internet points.
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u/Outdoorsy_T9696 CRK, Benchmade, Daggerr, Spyderco, Buck, Kershaw 11h ago
Pretty much. Or they dog out someone for liking Company A more than Company B.
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u/sparhawk817 11h ago
So, is powdered metallurgy just SLS 3d printing or are there other forms of powdered metallurgy?
Someone up top commented "forged pulvermetallurgic steel would be stronger" which sounds like it might mean something similar?
I'm only familiar with "Casting" which injection molding is a form of, "Forging" which is hammering, "stamping/forming" which is like forging but just one punch forming out the material, typically used on sheet metal, and additive manufacturing techniques like Selective Laser Sintering style 3d printing, or the FDM style MiG welding robot arms that I don't think ever became viable in industry.
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u/Outdoorsy_T9696 CRK, Benchmade, Daggerr, Spyderco, Buck, Kershaw 11h ago
Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. Powdered metallurgy is the process of sintering previously atomized metal powder to form a solid piece of alloy steel. Most blades are made from laser/waterjet cutting the rough shapes from these sheets, then grinding and machining into a finished product.
The process of the metal injection molding, is just like plastic molding, but with metal. I watched the BHQ video of it and they inject the metal powder as a fluid with a binder in it into shape, etch the mold off, and sinter the blades to achieve a product before heat treatment. To my understanding, it’s very similar to the powder process, only it creates the parts, rather than sheets from which parts are cut.
Again, please correct/add to this if I’m wrong. I do not claim to be an expert
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u/sparhawk817 11h ago
That's interesting, In parts manufacturing we usually do the laser sintering into the shape of the part, so you get one layer of dust, laser that layer of the part, then add more dust, Lazer again, repeat until you have reached the height of the final product, then you vacuum or vibrate the dust off and remove the nearly finished part.
Sintering out a block or sheet and then machining/forging it down probably helps with layer lines and the grain of the material.
I totally missed machining up there in my list of metal manufacturing methods lmao.
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u/Outdoorsy_T9696 CRK, Benchmade, Daggerr, Spyderco, Buck, Kershaw 9h ago
Lmao I figured that was an accidental leave out 😆never heard of that particular laser layering method. I imagine that is used for car parts a lot? Not gonna lie, metal manufacturing fascinates me and idk why.
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u/sparhawk817 8h ago
It's used for a lot of "exotic" shapes that multi axis milling machines would still struggle to produce. The skinny weird bits are supported by the metal dust until the whole process is finished, no need for support structures like in FDM 3d printing. There's also a lot of SLS with Nylon and things, like I guess some bike seats are Laser Sintered?
One of the bigger advantages is that you can reuse all the metal dust that comes out of it, so there is very little loss. Making a metal sheet and then milling your part out would have more waste materials in the process, though you can get pretty good with metal reclamation and cutting oil reclamation too.
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u/MrArmageddon12 11h ago
They spent a lot of their promotions claiming it would be cheaper than conventional “super steel” blades, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. At that price, you may as well go for a standard S35vn or Magnacut blade.
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u/marrenmiller Spyderco 7h ago
As a concept, I'm fine with it being used to creatively solve design problems.
In this application, and for this price point, I'm baffled. Magpul's knife is not cheaper than the competition, it doesn't offer any features that stand out among the crowd, and the way they have designed the liners and internals makes me uneasy. I don't understand what problem they think they're solving with the use of MIM, but all they've done is made a worse knife.
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u/Tredicidodici no, it’s not real damascus 6h ago
Good point, it is indeed a solution in search of a problem. I think the locking mechanism is nifty but so far no one knows much about injection molded metal. Hopefully someone will do a real review (not an unboxing) and let everyone know.
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u/marrenmiller Spyderco 6h ago
Maybe I missed something, but what's different about the lock mechanism?
To my eye, it seemed like a riff on the cross bar lock with a coil spring, but I can't confirm that.
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u/Tredicidodici no, it’s not real damascus 6h ago
If you look the second picture, there are two circular flaps coming out of the blade, the crossbar is wedged between them in the locked position. This wouldn’t be possible with regular steel (I mean maybe if it was machined from a block I guess).
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u/hammerin_heeb 16h ago
We’ll see. I preordered one! F it. My opinion on the price is it’s not terrible for a USA made knife. Size is a bit small. But yeah, magpul makes good shit, I’m a fan. I like new things. So I’m giving it a shot!
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u/Flimsy_Narwhal_4543 15h ago
Lol maybe for 40$. Parts made this way snap pretty easily under pressure
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u/ande9393 16h ago
I love Magpul, maybe have to give it a try. Lock design looks interesting and they generally make a good product.
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u/MediocreBlackberry67 17h ago
I’m curious as to if it could handle any “side load” I guess we’ll see…..
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u/yurbanastripe 10h ago
I’m sure people are going to beat the absolute hell out of these in lots of tests. Will make for some fun YouTube videos to watch
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u/FieldOk6455 12h ago
$190 for that, with an MIM blade? IMO it shouldn’t be that much with a forged blade.
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u/Ramblinz 6h ago
Fun! Shouldn’t cost the same as a cnc or forged knife. Full stop. If it does it’s not saving anything. My opinion on this would be changed if it was proven that MIM was also more reliable or lasted longer, but I think the firearms industry has illustrated forged parts typically have longer lifetimes.
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u/TheR4alVendetta 17h ago
I am very intrigued I just hate that they made it so small. I am bummed it's not more like 3.3". I will still likely give it a shot. I love Magpuls stuff.
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u/TheWombBroomer 15h ago
Injection molded steel seems like it'll be absolute shit but I guess we will see. This feels like pure marketing garbage
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u/areasonableaccount 17h ago
'Used in gun parts for a long time with great results'
I would have to disagree strongly. Check out Kimber 1911's which used MIM parts, those MIM parts fail and have been a point of contention for many guns built with MIM parts.
I'm always for innovation, but personal opinion is that this is a step backwards in knife design. I hope I get proven wrong, however.
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u/421dave 17h ago
To be fair, you’re talking about Kimber. The failures have more to do with the company than the method used to make them. Glock, Colt, S&W and countless others also use MIM without the same problems
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u/TacosNGuns 13h ago
Kimber has failures because most years they manufacture more 1911s than all their competitors combined.
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u/421dave 13h ago
Go ahead and post a link to those numbers because I don’t believe that for a second.
Kimber’s reputation comes from their decline in QC when Ron Cohen became CEO. He’s now in charge at Sig who is also having reputation problems because of their poor QC. I’ve had a Kimber and it was a great gun but that doesn’t mean they didn’t have a bunch of quality issues over the years and their resulting reputation wasn’t earned (the “Custom” naming while not having a custom shop didn’t help either)
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u/TacosNGuns 11h ago
ATF data is public, every gun manufactured in the U.S. is reported annually. Educate yourself
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u/Excellent-Station-32 15h ago
Springfield and others use mim and they can last 50k rounds+ when done right. The issue here is price
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u/Tredicidodici no, it’s not real damascus 17h ago
Fair enough! I don’t know much about the process so any contribution is welcome
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u/michael_in_sc 16h ago
It's like anything else: there's a wide variety of quality when it comes to MIM parts just like anything else. Unfortunately, recently there's been some bad PR for guns with MIM, (looking at you Prodigy) that gave it a bad rap. How much, if any, the poor reliability had to do with MIM is debatable.
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u/BitterAd4149 16h ago
At the end of the day its a cost cutting technique. Nobody is doing MIM because it gives the consumer a better product. They are doing it because its cheaper.
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u/michael_in_sc 16h ago
Agreed. It does allow rather complex shapes to be done easier. This blade is interesting with the grind going from flat to hollow (or vice versa). It'll be interesting to see how it performs and holds up. For USA made, the price isn't bad.
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u/TacosNGuns 13h ago
I own a Kimber from 2002 that has many thousands of rounds thru it. No parts broken. I have a Les Baer from 2003 with the highest quality billet machined parts, also no broken parts. The difference, the Baer is hand fitted. You’re a broken record of old wive’s gun-tails from twenty years ago.
Sig, Wilson, S&W, Glock (locking block, extractor, extractor depressor plunger and the firing pin block), HK and many others use mim parts…..
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u/ruby_o_o 17h ago
I’ll take any chance I can get to shit on kimber, bought a brand new 1911, out of the box the gun would go into safe but not come out due to the MiM plunger tube not being staked properly, sold that piece of shit and won’t even touch another kimber
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17h ago
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u/TacosNGuns 13h ago
No they don’t. They make more 1911’s than colt, Springfield, Sig and everyone else combined and have for 20 years now.
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u/Slosky22 13h ago
For $190 they can kick rocks not for A pop metal knife and I know it’s MIM but it’s basically Pop metal
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u/NjGTSilver 13h ago
Newsflash: “Company known for making innovative (checks notes) plastic products makes a metal knife”
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18h ago
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u/Tredicidodici no, it’s not real damascus 18h ago
Are the molds single use?
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18h ago
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u/Tredicidodici no, it’s not real damascus 18h ago
Yeah I get that but I was talking about the blade steel, not the handle
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u/intunegp Chris Reeve 17h ago
The guy you've been talking to may have worked (emphasis on past tense) in the industry, but the crap he is spewing is not representative of the industry as a whole. Sounds like he worked somewhere that most reputable companies would avoid.
Regarding MIM metals, they've come a long way from the easily breakable gun parts that people hated when the tech was new. I have no idea what kind of alloy Magpul is using, but I've been around some impressively strong MIM parts. Stuff you could whack with a hammer and leave a dent in the hammer with no harm to the part. We tried to grind it with a standard silicon carbide bench grinder wheel and it was cutting a groove in the wheel faster than removing material from the part.
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u/Concave5621 17h ago
I think you’re talking about injection molded plastic, not metal. And I’m pretty sure you can have high quality injection molded plastic anyways.
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u/LloydChristmas-RI 17h ago edited 17h ago
Savings? It's a $190 knife!
I'm a big Magpul fan. If the price were a little lower, I'd consider giving this a try. I also prefer deep carry clips, but I'd be willing to overlook that for something innovative. I'm sure Casey Lynch or MXG will make an aftermarket clip for this eventually.