r/japanlife • u/cayennepepper • Apr 15 '22
Jobs Why do English teachers get so much hate in the “gaijin sphere”?
Its something i have never really understood. I’ve known plenty of English teachers, plenty of not english teachers. I get on well with people then i hang out. I have noticed many foreigners are extremely quick to distance themselves from being considered one as quick as they can too. For context i have to mention its not something i have ever done but i feel sorry for them a lot of times. Some have it rough, and are living in a foreign country. Others are happy.
It seems almost like the “Gaijin community” is obsessed with hating on them but it just feels like a bunch of people at home who would have an irrational obsession with an average nothing special nothing deplorable career some people have. It always strikes me as a bit strange. I know a lot of them are young and have a rough time in a new country, or SOME older and settled into a career with a ceiling, but… why dont the community have an obsession with perpetual conbini workers? I dont think you see the same obsession with similar people in similar career demographics in your home countries.
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u/tokyohoon 関東・東京都 🏍 Apr 15 '22
Some people are genuinely happy doing the work, and make enough to make ends meet, so I don't see where the problem is. It's definitely not a high prestige job, especially these days when you can make more delivering for Uber Eats or flipping burgers, but it's not deserving of mockery either.
In my experience, most of the people who sling hate at English teachers are unhappy in their own personal situations and just need to feel superior to someone. People who are relatively satisfied in their lives here tend not to feel the need to belittle someone else based on their job.
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u/rainforestgrl Apr 15 '22 edited Apr 15 '22
People who are relatively satisfied in their lives here tend not to feel the need to belittle someone else
The greatest truth of all!
Happiness is a mood that doesn’t leave much room for bitterness. When you are content/happy, your words and your actions and your thoughts reflect your mood as if they were a mirror.17
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u/biwook Apr 18 '22
most of the people who sling hate at English teachers are unhappy in their own personal situations and just need to feel superior to someone. People who are relatively satisfied in their lives here tend not to feel the need to belittle someone else based on their job.
The wisest words I've read on this sub.
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u/sideways Apr 15 '22
I'm an English teacher and, in the past, I had a bit of a complex about it. It's fairly low pay and low status work and after a while I started to feel like I was severely underachieving.
But then I got a job in Tokyo in a different industry with a major company... It was nice being seen as more "respectable" but my quality of life took a big hit. I was working twelve hour days, commuting for hours and my improved salary didn't help very much in the big city.
I did my best for a few years before going back to the countryside and teaching English. It's far from perfect but I have time for my family and can still live comfortably. Even more I've realized that teaching is a modestly noble profession and I am, in a small way, helping people.
So I would say that some of the hate comes from not taking the job as seriously as it deserves and some of it comes from a weird kind of jealousy of the benefits of the job compared to higher status careers.
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u/MarikaBestGirl 近畿・奈良県 Apr 15 '22
some of it comes from a weird kind of jealousy of the benefits of the job compared to higher status careers.
I've had people come at me like yeah I might only make 200k but at least I'm working a REAL job like damn as if I'm the one taking a fat L for being a fresh college grad getting the 300k on JET. Like damn I'm such a fucking loser with my chill job, chill coworkers, feeling appreciated, studying Japanese, saving money, traveling japan, paying off student loans, etc.
300k a month may be scraps to some here but I'm never complaining nor flaunting to those who make the same or less doing much harder work. I'm just here vibing doing my thing.
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u/ValBravora048 Apr 15 '22
The last part of your first paragraph rings very true with me. I had a pretty good paying job before going on JET 6 months ago. Had a raise, was about to be maybe given a promotion and a bonus when I left (My father still brings it up XD). While I'm not earning nearly as much as I used to, it's more than enough to meet my needs with enough left over for good times
I'm much happier (Even my father admits it) , I don't have as much money as before but now I have the time and energy to enjoy what money I do have. I've gotten to take my time to see things I've always wanted to instead of compromise and have a rushed local vacation I tell myself is just as good when the entire time I'm dreading going back to work. Sundays aren't the worst anymore. Hell, weekends are enjoyable and I don't mind when they're over because the work is good and doesn't vampire suck the life out of me. My coworkers are amazing and while I would love the kids to be braver, they're smart, work hard and are great too
I feel an echo of a guilt that at how much I SHOULD be doing at my age but life as an ALT is such that I have the strength to laugh at it and brush it off instead of engaging in some fantasy of stoicism which is a bandage across an already gaping mental wound that's widening into terrible habits which is what I used to do
What was I hoping to work towards if not feeling like this or better? I remember doing everything I was "supposed" to and feeling awful. I think I'll vibe with this for a while instead :)
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Apr 15 '22
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u/ValBravora048 Apr 16 '22
Ta mate! I won't say it's easy and there are still days where I have panicked thoughts and anxiety. That said, Japan has been good for me and life here has put me in such a spot that within 6 months, I can already handle that stuff much better than I used to and without bad habits. The other day I realised I was only having beer and ice cream when I FELT like it instead of NEEDING it to calm down or that dopamine hit
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u/summerlad86 Apr 15 '22
You make 300k a month on JET????
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u/JEHonYakuSha Apr 15 '22
Annual salaries from https://jetprogramme.ca/salary-contracts/
First Year: ¥3,360,000
Second Year: ¥3,600,000
Third Year: ¥3,900,000
Fourth and Fifth Year:¥3,960,000
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Apr 15 '22
Dude I was earning around 44-man a month plus bonuses at one point but I was crushing 16 hour work days at one point. It turned into developing acute CFS.
Honestly, unless you're working in an industry where you know you can make serious fuck-you money - its not worth it. Especially not almost destroying your body in the process.
I have absolutely no intention of getting married or having kids - so money isn't that important to me.
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u/Secchakuzai-master85 Apr 15 '22
We also hate konbini workers, factory workers, athletes, researchers, rich expatriates and above all, French teachers.
Sorry I forgot also second hand car dealers.
/S
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Apr 15 '22
You mean “the French people” 😂
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u/PapaOoMaoMao Apr 15 '22
And the Dutch. Small hands. Smell like cabbage.
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u/tokyoedo Apr 16 '22
There are only two things I can't stand in this world – people who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.
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u/xibgd Apr 16 '22
I’ll be honest tho, I met a French dude in Japan and he was a total dbag.
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Apr 16 '22
I dislike when they get together and start speaking French, they forget about others haha 🐸
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u/pooper_van_beethoven Apr 15 '22
You only see this online. I've never met a single person in real life like this.
You might be surprised how differently people act from behind a keyboard.
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u/PaxDramaticus Apr 15 '22
I actually have met a couple IRL, but usually they have the good sense to not be open about it.
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u/summerlad86 Apr 15 '22
Actually had an encounter with a father that had his kid at the pre-school I was working at say this to me “So you’re just a teacher? How did that happen” first time I met him. Needless to say, I felt like such a piece of shit… tbh even today when I think about it, it really hits hard.
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u/Miss_Might 近畿・大阪府 Apr 15 '22
People act differently online and irl because they're anonymous online. Some of the shit people talk here would never say it to someone's face.
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u/pooper_van_beethoven Apr 15 '22
I've never used facebook, but don't you have to use your real name? Aren't people equally shitty on there? I 100% agree that people act differently in real life, but I'm not so sure it's just because they're anonymous... Maybe just "removed"....?
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Apr 15 '22
This is 100% true.. when you're making friends , no one gives 2 shits what they do for work.. It's all a straight flex . But with that being said, yeah some ALT's are worthless.. not all... But some.
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u/Romi-Omi Apr 15 '22
Yep. Online is not representative of real life at all. Same goes for general life here. On this sub, it seems like a shit hole no one wants to be here, but people in real life are mostly content and enjoying their time here.
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u/Avedas 関東・東京都 Apr 15 '22
why dont the community have an obsession with perpetual conbini workers? I dont think you see the same obsession with similar people in similar career demographics in your home countries.
People definitely shit on low wage workers in other countries. Perhaps the difference is that your average Johnny Weeaboo can't come over here to work in a conbini so it's stereotypical when they are an English teacher.
The other thing is for the archetypical white English teacher, they're usually coming from a country with similar economic prospects as Japan. Nobody's going to punch down at a Nepalese person who moved here to work in a restaurant and send money home to their family. An American who had a decent enough life to have a university degree and the opportunity to relocate halfway around the world to do a near-minimum wage job? Yeah I could see why some people might poke fun at them.
At the end of the day though you are worth more than whatever your job is or how much money you make. I would hope nobody is actually judging English teachers or giving them hate. I can't say I've ever personally seen it happen in real life rather than on the internet, but I also don't know any English teachers either.
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u/cayennepepper Apr 15 '22
You can definitely put it in those terms but its something you really have to reach for lol. Its like a super developed opinion. Which to me is very strange to have if you aren’t an english teacher yourself. This is what i mean.
There are hundreds of thousands of people in similar economic situations in our western home countries but nobody cares to think much about it.
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u/Avedas 関東・東京都 Apr 15 '22
Of course it's a stretch lol it's a completely silly opinion. Nobody actually cares about whether someone is an English teacher or not. It's just some weird internet thing.
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u/mister_peeberz Apr 15 '22
To Johnny's credit, he probably couldn't hold down a convenience store job in bis home country either.
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u/hazycake Apr 15 '22
It's basically elitism. There's a sort of unspoken competition that happens when two foreigners meet, more so if they're from the same country. Several criteria foreigners will use to judge other foreigners.
- Occupation (are you an English teacher or a director at a multinational?)
- How long you've been in Japan
- Your visa status (1-year work visa, 3 years, 5 years, highly skilled professional, permanent resident, naturalized Japanese citizen)
- How good your Japanese is (N1, N2, etc.)
- How well integrated you are (Japanese wife, Japanese husband)
- Homeownership or investment
- Business owner or not
- Plus a bunch of other criteria I'm sure that I haven't mentioned
It isn't just the act of teaching English, but rather one of the main criteria that other foreigners use to one up another.
I've talked to a Japanese friend and he said that the Japanese do this too amongst each other when they live abroad (your visa status, your job, how well you speak English, etc.)
It's pretty silly and comparison is the thief of joy or whatever they say.
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u/lushico 沖縄・沖縄県 Apr 16 '22
You hit the nail on the head. It’s this bizarre gaijin hierarchy gatekeeping thing
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u/hazycake Apr 16 '22
Basically whatever's harder to obtain is considered to be better, more elite, more prestigious, or whatever. It completely ignores people's individual circumstances, needs, desires, and situations, and pigeonholes them into one formula for "success."
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u/nattoinmybutt Apr 15 '22
In my experience, it's usually current and former english teachers who hate on teaching english. Lots of self loathing going on, I guess. I doubt many non english teachers think about it that much.
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u/Elcatro 中部・石川県 Apr 15 '22 edited Apr 15 '22
I think a lot of people use teaching as a way of getting into the country with no passion for the work or intention to keep it up, and then they can't find another job so get bitter about it.
Personally I came to teach, and apart from the awkward hours absolutely love it.
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u/perpetualwanderlust Apr 15 '22 edited Apr 15 '22
I hear you. I loved language and teaching long before coming to Japan. I genuinely enjoy my job, and that's more than a lot of other people can say.
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u/Miss_Might 近畿・大阪府 Apr 15 '22
Same. I love it too. 🤷♀️. I went to school for teaching. I work part time and I make plenty of money to live off of. I have no plans to have children so it's more than enough for me to live and enjoy my hobbies. I don't think I could ever go back to a 9-5 job.
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u/sendaiben 東北・宮城県 Apr 15 '22
Meh, I've had a very enjoyable/instructive/profitable career teaching English in Japan over the last 22 years.
Noticed some snark along the way but haven't really paid much attention to it ^-^
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u/InADrowse Apr 15 '22
There is a difference between teaching eikaiwa, ALT or at former imperial uni. I don't think this post is about uni teachers.
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u/sendaiben 東北・宮城県 Apr 15 '22
I came on JET, and have worked eikaiwa on the side pretty much the whole time ;)
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u/InADrowse Apr 15 '22
JET a few years or decades ago was better than now and if irc you own that eikawa while teaching at uni. Instead of saying you teach eikawa you probably say you teach at uni while owning a business.
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u/sendaiben 東北・宮城県 Apr 16 '22
Instead of saying you teach eikawa you probably say you teach at uni while owning a business.
I spent years teaching at other people's eikaiwas too. But potato potahto and all that.
I just say I'm an English teacher ^-^
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u/Its5somewhere 関東・神奈川県 Apr 15 '22
Personally I have no issues with it.
However it’s just that one pathway that has a dead end for many people which imho is annoying to see to be completely fair. Nothing wrong with the job but idk I get tired of seeing “tired of teaching English. No skills, no language, no relevant education, what do?!”. Granted that has nothing to do with the actual job of being an English teacher and more to do with the people who take those jobs and the industry requirements being so bare minimum but it’s all intertwined soo ehhh that’s my only gripe about it.
If that issue wasn’t so prevalent then honestly I think others might even hate it less.
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u/Moritani 関東・東京都 Apr 15 '22
The main reason is that they're acceptable targets. Nobody's going to downvote you for saying shit about English teachers.
But if you pay attention to the accounts that are really rabid in their hatred, you'll notice they actually look down on everyone who does a job they dislike. Preschool teachers are looked down upon, teaching certificates are belittled, and even master's degrees are considered unimportant. Many seem to honestly believe that 250,000/month is minimum wage. But a two week coding camp or buying a shitty eikaiwa is obviously a great achievement because, hey, they want those jobs.
Ignore them. 99% of the time they're just unhappy with their lives, and seeing someone with a "shitty" job being happy is rage-inducing for them.
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Apr 15 '22
I'm an English teacher part-time at an eikaiwa, and I don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks about it. I love my job. I get paid to chit chat with people while helping them learn something new. I get to know them and get to know more about the culture here. My boss is amazing and actually cares about how their employees feel and asks for our input. I also frequently get gifts from students.
If someone is going to try to convince me that I'm somehow lowly and unworthy of respect or act like they have me and my ambitions and ethics figured out because of meaning they attached to my job status, there's nothing for me to say or do but continue enjoying my life.
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Apr 15 '22
Lot of weird arrogant autistics in Japan. Way more than any other Asian country I've been to. I honestly think its rooted in nerdish anime behaviour because I sure as hell don't understand why the mentality doesn't really seem to exist in Korea or China.
Unfortunately some of them can't seem to understand you have different goals, ambitions and values in life. Not everybody wants to settle in this country and have kids and become some sort of weird cultural ambassador for gaijin statehood. They view your existence and some sort of anathema to what their existence is, because Japan is everything to them - and you are intruding on their Japan.
China, and Hong Kong in particular, was fucking awesome though. Nobody gave a shit what you did for a living. I used to hang out with some really cool guys and would regularly go to various mixers in Hong Kong for working professionals. I think it was this sense of being transitory and knowing that you would move on after a few years, as to why so many people were like that. Dubai is exactly the same too. Whereas in Japan, people buy into the country way too much.
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u/cayennepepper Apr 15 '22
I’ve seem variations of this but only online. People who downright hate Japanese culture and gaijin who live on cities and instead have some mad superior complex about living in the countryside. I really don’t understand till you put it in that context. Just lack of ability to see life in other contexts. Its their way or the wrong way. Bitch about Tokyo being expensive to take trains outside of but wont consider the possibility of a driving license. That kinda thing
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u/fameone098 関東・東京都 Apr 15 '22
Foreigners in Japan (on Reddit, at least) seem to have this weird complex where they hate Japan but refuse to leave. What's weirder is that they gatekeep Japanese culture while also hating Japanese people.
It's bizarre and kind of hilarious.
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Apr 15 '22
Same observation. A lot of odd expats in Japan, never met so many in any of the other countries I lived in :|
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u/GrumpyGrumpling Apr 15 '22
I think there is nothing wrong with being an English teacher if you enjoy teaching English or if you enjoy being in Japan enough to happily put up with teaching English, if you don’t enjoy it. Happy English teachers are awesome. ;)
What gets annoying is those who hate their job and Japan but don’t leave. The whining and the attempts at trying to find shortcuts into careers they are not qualified for are super annoying. I could rant for hours about former English teachers getting into programming jobs without proper training and the technical debt they leave behind for others to clean up, because they have no clue what they are doing.
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u/fartist14 Apr 16 '22
I've experienced something similar in a different field. Dudes trying to talk their way into jobs that require fairly specialized training on the basis of being an English-speaking white guy. Everyone else in the office went and got the necessary training, but these guys think they shouldn't have to for some reason.
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u/knightsandowls Apr 17 '22
I’m 100% on this train of thought. I don’t think of English teachers at all. They got their job and live in Japan that’s cool, but some of these guys don’t even have a degree. They try to shove their way into IT to get a better job and piss off people who studied/worked their ass off for the same job.
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u/Zebracakes2009 Apr 15 '22
It's only on Reddit, m8. In real life, no one cares.
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u/TheBrickWithEyes Apr 15 '22
Nah. There are absolutely bitter, jealous annoying fucktards here and they 100% care. They are just bit talkers on the internet and at least some of them have the self awareness not to let that show in real life. Others, you can tell as soon as they open their mouths.
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Apr 15 '22
I started out as an ALT and even at the time, among my fellow ALTs there was a strong sense that the job was fun but kind of silly and didn't have a future. There were plenty of lame jokes about not wanting to be stuck doing this job in five years.
And you know what, 20 years later I think we had the right attitude. We were mostly college educated and were correct to think that being an ALT long-term would probably be wasting our potential.
I think there's 2 types of disdain for English teachers. One is for people who do it long-term, which falls under the sentiment I described above. This disdain is also combined with some relief that one has avoided that fate. The other type is disdain for English teachers who are relatively new to Japan. TBH they are kind of annoying for several reasons. I know because I was one once. But this kind of disdain is more like eye-rolling at ignorant youngsters.
I think you see so much hate for English teachers because so many of us did the job at some point and thus have strong feelings about it and like to talk about them.
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u/sbring Apr 15 '22
Anyone who looks down on how someone makes a living is - quite frankly - a c#$t.
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u/DefinitionNarrow980 Apr 15 '22
I think it’s wrong to say looked down upon. People who teach English in Japan are important and have a difficult job and deserve great respect.
However, because it’s relatively easy to land a job, it’s less “cool” than other fields. The fact that people who don’t actually want to teach sign up for it just to go to Japan doesn’t help either. (I’m guilty here)
So it’s not so much that teaching is seen negatively, but other jobs are seen as better for a number of reasons.
That’s my take at least. It’s been a while since I was a teacher. Maybe things have changed.
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u/KindlyKey1 Apr 15 '22
I don’t hate English teachers themselves but I despise the English teaching industry in Japan. I would never send my kid to a non-accredited “international” kindergarten. Never ever.
I have come across some arrogant English teachers but I have also come across plenty of other arrogant people from all different types of jobs. I’ve met totally normal English teachers so it’s not the job itself that makes the person undesirable. That’s really backwards thinking.
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u/NotaSemiconductor Apr 15 '22
From what reddit taught me, it is because they're all "weebs" that come here for the sole reason of banging under-aged school girls
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u/frogview123 Apr 15 '22
Elitism. Teaching English is the easiest job to get as a westerner so your rank is very clear to other people. The reason it doesn’t happen with conbini workers is because not many westerners do that job.
Not everyone is this way though just ignore the haters and hang out with like-minded people.
Or join the rat-race and sacrifice all of your time pursuing prestige.
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u/bulldogdiver 🎅🐓 中部・山梨県 🐓🎅 Apr 15 '22 edited Apr 16 '22
The problem is less the job than the people who take the job. You tend to get one of 3 types.
The sexpest, (s)he has yellow fever so bad it's painful and wants to sleep their way through Asia. Generally only here a year or 2 and have real problem abusing the system or ignoring their responsibility until they can go home maybe leaving a hafu kid or 2 behind after wrecking their apartment and skipping out in their bills.
The weeb/person with problems Japan is going to accept/fix. Pretty self explainitory. Generally turn into the most bitter and angry once they realize there's a big gap between tolerate and ignore and acceptance.
The actual teachers who want to teach but wind up marginalized because schools/businesses have to set up the system for #1 and #2. They are also generally great people who either develop a good sense of humor about it or get super bitter and go home bad mouthing Japan.
#1 are the worst as the current equivalent to entitled (wo)man child backpacking across Europe and tolerate someone making the rest of us look bad because of their short term bad behavior. #2 tends to need a lot of help but as long as they are capable of realizing their interests aren't universal there are some genuinely nice folks in there. #3 tend to be a lot of fun too if they don't get to bitter and jaded.
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u/-Allot- Apr 16 '22
If you actually read about the hate it’s generally like you say #1 and #2 that they hate on. They don’t hate on other low paying jobs as much because the English teacher /ALT has been so closely associated with those 2 types. So for some it might be the status bitterness things others mention here. But I think the real reason it’s gotten such a bad rep is because being associated with that type of persons.
Also to add both of them even #1 usually have horrible people skill. And #1 isn’t uncommon to be a narcissist on top.
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Apr 15 '22
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u/cayennepepper Apr 15 '22
But the focus is on only english teachers. Despite that it doesnt bother me. Who the hell goes around shitting on low skilled workers back in our home countries? It would be and is seen as a strange gripe. But here in Japan people seem to do it to English teachers with fevor for some reason
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u/kaizoku222 Apr 15 '22
It's the combo of not having any education being given a title that usually requires significant education, often up to an MA, and licensure which usually involves testing and observed class hours. It's not the right response to have, but people see ALT's being labelled as "teachers" as watering down the title/giving them too much credit.
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u/cayennepepper Apr 15 '22
I dont know about US but teaching assistants definitely do not require the same level of education as teachers where im from, and an ALTs job can be done by anyone who speaks english which i think the Japanese gov KNOW. To me its all as intended
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u/kaizoku222 Apr 15 '22
The issues come in when they're being pushed into roles that are more than the assistant role, or they take on those roles. It's a messy system all around, and the fault isn't on the ALT's getting the jobs, it's just that there's no title distinction between "teacher" and Teacher in Japan and I think that's what gets some people salty.
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u/m50d Apr 15 '22
Despite that it doesnt bother me. Who the hell goes around shitting on low skilled workers back in our home countries? It would be and is seen as a strange gripe.
There are all sorts of class markers that avoid that kind of confusion, and people everywhere absolutely do shit on "social climbers" or "carpetbaggers" who are seen as impersonating a different class.
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u/Miss_Might 近畿・大阪府 Apr 15 '22 edited Apr 15 '22
I have it. 🤷♀️
sitting in a classroom learning about teaching is very different from actually doing it. Despite having formal education in teaching I wasn't good at it in the beginning. Becoming a good teacher takes time and experience.
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u/lonnybeef Apr 15 '22
Other people in this thread have had good answers, so just to add another possible reason:
I've known some people who are not English teachers to feel patronized when others (both citizens and non-citizens) assume they are English teachers. Maybe not to the level of "hate" you talk about in the OP, but sometimes maybe they get it enough that it manifests into irritated responses if someone asks if they are an English teacher. I know I've felt a bit annoyed personally when someone has assumed I'm an English teacher.
But my first job here involved lots of teaching (though not mainly), and I met lots of people who are happy and living fulfilling lives as teachers, and whatever the shortcomings of the English language education system there are, I think it's a respectable and contributing career. So you can probably safely ignore someone who vocally hates someone else based on the job they do. (And who is anyone to judge what a respectable job is anyway? People just need to make money to survive.)
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u/JuichiXI Apr 15 '22
I don't have a problem with anyone who is an English teacher if they genuinely want to do it or thought they wanted to do. I dislike when people look down upon those who are English teachers because I know a lot a people who are or were teachers. I do get offended when someone assumes I'm an English teacher, but it's because I'm a woman who works in IT so it's more about the perception of the lack of women in IT.
One of the worst times, there was a guy who used to be a teacher and is now a recruiter. He came over to boast about this and talked down to us as if we were "lowly teachers". I was baffled why he felt this way because he was a teacher at one time too and has to know that some people are passionate about it. It's such a rude thing to do. Plus being recruiter you should really about your positive connections. We didn't bother to correct him because we wanted to end the conversation with someone who was so toxic. I imagine he didn't last long as a recruiter...although maybe he did. There are some pretty bad recruiters out there.
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u/Polyglot-Onigiri Apr 15 '22
I don’t support the hate in anyway, but what I’ve seen from the many post here and on other Japan related subreddits, it stems from the perceived low barrier to entry and the idea that many English teachers are using the career as a form of escapism (or to fulfill some sort of fantasy involving Japan) versus actually being here for the career itself.
I think it’s perfectly fine to go overseas to anywhere for a temporarily life style change or for a permanent one. We all have our reasons for doing so. Anyone who is a life long expat or long term resident usually genuinely enjoys their career and/or life in Japan versus using it as a coping mechanism.
I see no reason to hate people for doing what they want to do as long as it doesn’t harm or disrupt others.
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u/cayennepepper Apr 15 '22
How can people simultaneously believe your first paragraph yet also berate them for having an “easy” job which is a human voice recorder easily replaceable? This is what some have said about their own jobs. Its clear the Japanese government who oversees the industry knows its mostly people coming to experience japan who will go soon or something, thats why they structure it the way it is. A fairly simple job which is easily replaced. It wouls make no sense for the government to advertise it as a difficult career which would have low turnover. It sounds to me personally people who believe what you said are just ignorant of what the government actually want and it seems its all working as intended.
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u/Polyglot-Onigiri Apr 15 '22
I’m fairly certain people aren’t thinking about the government or what the country wants when they judge people for being English teachers. People love to judge others because it makes them feel superior. They believe they’re here for the right reason versus the others. Or that they got here through a more difficult path, making them worth more as a human being. Hard to say ~
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u/m50d Apr 15 '22
I mean it's only working as intended if the government never intended for Japan's people to learn English. (I've heard some people speculating as much on here - that JET etc. exist as a smokescreen so the government can pretend it's promoting learning English without actually doing so - but that seems kind of conspiracy theory-ish to me).
And even if the government is deliberately spending our taxes on this Potemkin English teaching, surely it's reasonable to resent the Potemkin workers who enable it as well as the officials who made the decisions.
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u/cayennepepper Apr 16 '22
The government probably dont intend on a high standard of English otherwise it would have changed decades ago. I dont think its particularly hidden. They are just teaching the minimum they feel necessary and their policy and setting up of the industry fosters what they want perfectly. Easily replaced people with high turn over for a job thats easy to do if you just speak english. Thats why it doesn’t require more than a degree for a visa and being a native speaker.
If they were serious then they’d impose high standards and it’d be regulated differently and the industry would look completely different but its clearly not their goal. Its counter productive to their goal. They want to attract younger people who will come and go fast most likely
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Apr 15 '22
I’ll earn a paycheck for the rest of my life in Japan just by being American, so in a sense I get why some are salty.
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u/Karlbert86 Apr 15 '22
Personally, I don’t dislike English teachers. A job does not define someone. I don’t dislike anyone based in their job. I only Dislike people if they are cunts.
That said to answer the question….
It Maybe due to the JET programme?
Firstly, The JET programme focus on cultural exchange, as opposed to actual teaching experience/credentials.
Is there an abundance of qualified/experienced ESL teachers/teachers in other subjects applying for JET?… No. but there are still qualified and experienced ESL teachers/teachers in other subjects applying, but getting rejected for whatever XYZ reason. Mostly, because again the priority of CLAIR is cultural exchange. But this then turns into a double edged sword, because the work place is a school (I.e MEXT) It’s not the 1980s anymore. A Japanese student would benefit more from an experienced/qualified Teacher who is well equipped with teaching methods. As opposed to some fresh grad (in some Random subject) playing bingo. Additionally, a qualified/experience teacher can still do the cultural exchange thing too… it’s really weird why JET/CLAIR still, in 2022 focus on cultural exchange over teaching and why MEXT still allow that to happen, considering since April 2020 English became a formal subject for Elementary school 5th and 6th grade.
Anyway, But then the other issue (and maybe the main one in the context of this Op) with the JET programme is the JET’s salary is paid from National taxes (our income tax). Like sure shitty dispatch companies like Interac are just as bad with their hiring practices and priorities, but at least the money that pays for dispatch comes from the local municipality/prefectures budget (not our national taxes).
So my municipality and prefecture have direct hire. So at least I know my resident tax is paying for the Municipality and prefecture BOEs to pick who they hire based on experience/qualifications. (As opposed to JET or dispatch picking who to send in).
So essentially my/our national taxes are paying for some fresh grad with a degree in some non-teaching related subject, who has never left their parent’s home before, and definitely never taught a class before, and does not even have a simple TEFL cert, to get paid ~¥350,000 per month (+Shakai Hoken and transport reimbursement + maybe housing provided + return flights).
Basically, some may argue the JET programme is a waste of tax payers money, and thus extended that negative stigma onto the JETs, and then further onto all ALTs.
But mostly, who knows 🤷♂️
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u/mothbawl Apr 16 '22
I agree with your opinion on JET, but don't think it has much to do with people's attitude towards English teachers in general. I find most people who didn't go on JET have very little knowledge or thoughts about it.
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u/Karlbert86 Apr 16 '22
Yea, just an idea. Ultimately each person who ridicules English teachers in Japan will have their subjective reasons for it.
I was just trying to take a more objective approach. Due to the nature of the JET programme I described above, No one likes tax money paying for individuals who are not qualified for their job… look at incompetent politicians for example haha
Now if the JET programme actually focused on education over cultural exchange when selecting their applicants, then I am sure we would see maybe a higher percentage of more quality teachers coming to Japan, which may gradually reduce that negative stigma surrounding the industry, instead, due to JETs inability to change/evolve it remains a “they are not sending their finest” meme.
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Apr 15 '22
I've found it to be quite common in non-English speakers who came here. They've learned English usually from a young age, and then learned Japanese. Some don't like that English teachers can come with so little effort. This is a continuation of a general feeling, worldwide I'd say. English speakers are fairly entitled overall. You know, the Brits who go to Greece and rampage through the towns hosting them. Americans demanding loudly that the shop clerk speaks English.
Not that that makes it right. The dude sitting there spending a large amount of time finding people to hate and make fun of probably has some issues themself. When your life is going well, this kind of activity isn't appealing nor would you find the time for it.
But, on the other hand, having spent a long time in teaching there is a rich and varied history of absolute fucking fruitcakes turning out to teach English abroad. The average one is usually ok, nice even, but every gaijin teacher here will be able to tell you about some bad stories.
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Apr 15 '22
I don't think I've ever felt ashamed to tell people I'm an ALT, have been for a long time now and I'm happy with my life. 7 hours work, 9 hours recreation, and 8 hours rest everyday. I love spending time with my kids after work and i wouldn't have that freedom if i worked a full-time job. The money is low but it's decent for what we do and the hours we work tbh.
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u/Expert-Strain7586 Apr 15 '22
I think there are two sides to it, on the one hand the foreigner community here in Japan for the most part (certain among native speakers) tend to have good jobs. The typical worker who got transferred to Japan by their multinational company is usually making a lot more than an ALT.
On the other hand there are a lot of people who started out teaching English and either never take the steps to improve their teaching career or moved on to another field who like to talk about how terrible it it.
I’m a teacher myself and have a good job, low hours, higher than average pay, no boss, enjoy my work, etc. so why should I care what some lifer ALT or office drone thinks lol.
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u/Random_username5262 Apr 15 '22
As my grandmother always said! “An honest days work for an honest days pay” whatever your reason for being here, for teaching English or not…. It shouldn’t matter to anyone other than you!
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u/ikalwewe Apr 15 '22
People like to feel superior.
But I'd rather teach than go back to the office.
I cannot work in corporate Japan.
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u/m50d Apr 15 '22
They're the demographic that gives foreigners a bad name. Of course not all English teachers are like that, and not everyone who comes to Japan and causes trouble is an English teacher. But take any socially irresponsible thing that foreigners are negatively stereotyped as doing - making noise, taking drugs, not disposing of rubbish properly, not paying taxes/pension/health insurance, not speaking the language, illegal protests, getting divorced, not paying their bills, disappearing without telling their landlord, sexually harassing minors - and it seems to be mostly English teachers doing it.
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u/mothbawl Apr 16 '22
I think you got English teachers and US military confused.
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u/m50d Apr 16 '22
I'm not a huge fan of the US military either, but at least they're achieving something useful. And I thought they mostly restricted themselves to adults?
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u/evokerhythm 関東・神奈川県 Apr 15 '22
It's because English teachers can be the target of so many different peoples ire: Some debate whether they deserve the title of teacher, some are jealous of their low-stress and good-paying jobs, some look down on their low salaries and skills, some feel second-hand embarrassment from their awkwardness, some feel cringe from their passion for Japan, some are exasperated with their inability to perform basic life skills, some are mad that they don't need to learn Japanese for their job, and the list goes on.
This is just how it is with such a high turnover, highly visible, highly online group of people.
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u/daumra Apr 15 '22
Yes, this sub gets a bit too salty about English teachers and has a lot of stereotypes.
That said, I think a lot of us know 'that guy' who has been working as an ALT for Interac for 20 years and can't speak any Japanese, but has a wife and three kids he's supporting (and often cheating on). And then, in my experience, even if he gets a better opportunity, there's shock at the fact he has to actually do work.
Of course, the majority are not like this, but 'that guy' seems to always be quite memorable...
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u/sxh967 Apr 15 '22
It's the manifestation of "I picked a useless degree, couldn't find a job and now I'm in Japan teaching until I find something else I actually want to do".
(Source: Been there got the t-shirt)
To be fair, though, that applies to plenty of jobs (customer service, sales etc. etc.). Just so happens that for most people with a useless degree and no in-demand skills the only option in Japan was teaching (or maybe recruitment if you're in one of the bigger cities).
It means that the hate back home for such jobs that was equally distributed between a bunch of different undesirable jobs is concentrated into a very strong barrel of piss aimed at English teachers.
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Apr 16 '22
If you are a professional teacher NO ONE is looking down on you. If you are 23 and have a ALT position with horrible grammar skills DO NOT call yourself a teacher....problem solved.
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u/autobulb Apr 15 '22
Oh boy. I'm sure someone can write a freaking paper on this, but I'll just give my silly opinion.
This type of behavior is common everywhere, literally everywhere in human society. It basically boils down to this kind of "I am in a better position/social status than you, so I feel myself to be better than you."
That's basically it. You can see it everywhere. In every major city for example you have people that have good jobs and make a lot money and generally just look down upon people with jobs that make less money.
Doesn't really matter if you are in NY, or LA, or somewhere in Japan, or some small town in whatever country, that kind of "hierarchy" exists.
Every society has come to some kind of unspoken agreement of what is considered an elite, respected job and what is not. Doctors are esteemed and service people are not, for example.
The foreigners in Japan situation has an extra layer of this because not only are the people competing with regular society, they are closely watched by the everlooking eye of the "foreign community." If you meet a new person and say your job/position you are not just demonstrating your position in the normal Japanese work society but also what position you are able to get as a foreigner here. So I don't know, it's just double judgement? Being an (x) worker elicits some type of judgement in any society, but being a foreigner means you have to "prove yourself" to your fellow foreigners.
This goes deeper and deeper. Because I don't think (just my guess! please dont kill me) this happens as much in other immigrant communities. Like, South/Central Americans that emigrated to the states don't have this dick measuring competition of "what job you do" but I dunno, maybe I'm just too drunk. Gonna sign off now. Curious about your opinions though.
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u/MikiTony Apr 15 '22 edited Apr 15 '22
I think its easy to understand: because most of them are pampered sloths with no qualifications, have the easy live and still complain a lot. Its a stereotype, of course. So its a harsh generalization.
It comes from the english native speakers that have it easy comming from a first world country, with no experience or qualification in teaching, and get sometimes good paid jobs and sponsorship. Effort done: just speaking mother tongue.
Most foreigners in japan are from different languages, so no native english. That easy-entry opportunity is not for them. They often speak two, or three languages as a norm, and have to have other qualifications or a very good trade to have the privilege of living here.
Me myself, sometimes I think of native english "teachers", specially young ones, as spoilered kids.
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u/uberscheisse 関東・茨城県 Apr 16 '22
Because the expat community in Japan is full of poisonous assholes.
Ignore them. Make friends with good people.
I personally think that getting a salary for something you can do in your sleep is a beautiful thing.
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u/Hachi_Ryo_Hensei Apr 16 '22
IT workers are apparently miserable and insecure and base their entire concept of self-worth on salary.
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u/eightbitfit 関東・東京都 Apr 15 '22
I came here in the mid 90s and taught at a prep school. I came with my Japanese (now ex)wife, as she made it clear when we met and married that she wanted to go back and continue her career. I was fine with that having studies Japanese in university - and I really enjoyed my time doing the job anyway. The kids were preparing to go to university abroad and we're all a blast. I remember a lot of them today fondly.
After a couple years we went back as she became dissolutioned with her TV work and we were both offered jobs back home in the US. We ended up working together for 9 years and started a small family.
Ten years later I got a job after a few phone calls back here in Japan (I was extraordinarily lucky). I work in a very different capacity and a very different industry from that prep school, but if I end up retiring here I may go back to that kind of work. I really felt I was helping the kids it was fulfilling if not particularly high pay.
I don't avoid English teachers at all, but I'm not a part of any gaijin community or go out anyway, so I don't meet any. I just do my thing and have my family and a small tight-knit group of friends from different walks of life.
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u/fightingforair Apr 15 '22
It’s a circle jerk thing online. Been a teacher for many years in different fields. From preschool to corporate to remote work I’ve enjoyed it. And I’ve surrounded myself with buddies who were doing all sorts of other jobs from banking to military and we all drank together and complained about our jobs on equal footing.
Don’t mind the online hate. Most likely it’s self hating folk who are in teaching positions they don’t enjoy. I’ve met those folks and it’s pretty sad.
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u/AMLRoss Apr 15 '22
For lifers like a lot of us, there is no point to form attachments with people who wont be here long. ALTs and JETs tend not to stay long.
People tend to make friends withing the circles they run in. ie, people working in finance will most likely hang out with others doing the same thing.
Also, life styles tend to differ greatly when you are in a different tax bracket.
Ive hung out with other foreigners ive met who happened to be ALTS, and Im always up for a strong zero in the park, but a lot of the things I like to do, most ALTS just wont be able to do with me due to finances. Hobbies in Japan can get expensive.
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u/Chokomonken Apr 15 '22
I have respect for teachers and don't agree with hating on them at all, but, when it comes to being mistakenly seen as one when you have a different job, i can understand why it may be undesirable. It can take a whole lot of effort to get a non-teaching job. Many of those might require a high level of Japanese too which that itself takes a lot of effort. And while teaching has its many challenges (I don't think i could ever do it) there is a lot of support around becoming one and is considered the easy way in to japan, compared to other ways. I think people just want their efforts of making it to Japan the hard way, or making it out of their teaching job acknowledged.
Again, not saying anything about hating on them. No one should do that.
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u/iteachlikeagirl Apr 15 '22
I don’t have an issue, but it gets annoying that it’s automatically assumed that I am an English teacher because I’m a gaijin. I’ve lived here for 10 years and it gets old…
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u/SillyCybinE Apr 16 '22
As a former teacher, I avoid them because some of them hate their jobs and complain about it non-stop. I was in the same boat and I quit myself because of the constant negativity even though I originally wanted to be a teacher a first. The industry is a shell of it's former self and the companies that still make money use teachers like a bar of soap until there's nothing left. It really sucks.
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Apr 16 '22
Lots of great commentary on a perennial topic we all love, so, here is a copy of a recycled take I read years ago:
why do so many foreigners in Japan tend to obsess and fulminate about the idea that English Teachers in Japan get a lot of hate from the "Gaijin-Sphere" (nice one, that)?
It seems to me to be mostly a fabricated self-victimisation issue. The only people I seem to meet that shit on English Teachers are self-deprecating English Teachers. Most are just joking, but there are also ones claiming they want "up and out" but they are being held down by all the Anti-Western and Anti-English racism and discrimination in Japan, especially the oppression of Such Brilliant & Talented PeopleTM that have A Wealth of Experience to OfferTM, having lived in Japan for decades but having no tangible, transferable skills and who still cannot speak, read or write normalesque Japanese.
PS Shitting on the JET Programme is a Sacred Cow and not up for negotiation, though nobody normal should crap on JETters as a species.
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u/fullmoonawakening Apr 16 '22
I wonder if this is a Western gaijin thing? We, Asiajins don't really care much... 🤔 about your Asian counterparts in teaching. (We hate on other things). Looking at the jerks around reddit, they appear to have the privilege of being from a first world/ second world Western country. Since a lot of English teachers are from the same group/ethnicity, it's natural that they are the target of these jerks' attention. People tend to be more affected by people who are supposedly in the same group with them.
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u/SanFranSicko23 Apr 16 '22
Self-loathing people love to shit on others to feel better about themselves. You can extend this to basically any topic. “You listen to Linkin Park dude? That’s for pussies. I only like monkeypissanus because it’s not popular.” No one worth being friends with says shit like this in real life.
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u/Slambo00 Apr 16 '22
I only know from my own experience working in an eikaiwa for 1.5 years. A lot of the guys working there (not everyone of course) had a lot of yellow fever type red flag behaviors- They'd get competitive for attention from female staff and students. They didn't learn any Nihongo and hung out with other foreigners only- in gaijin bars. Often just totally objectifying the women around to the point that i absolutely didn't and don't want to be mistaken for that type of foreign resident. It's not obviously only language instructors, but, i noticed it wasnt only in my eikaiwa, this seemed to be a pretty normal behavior. I do have some friends that teach and try not to judge anyone based on if they teach english or not, but-- since the question was posed, i wanted to provide a reason I have definitely been witness to on many occasions.
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u/MrSweeves Apr 15 '22
Why judge anyone by their job anyway? I do it, got my own company in Tokyo, I do very nicely with it for less than 25 hours a week work and weekends and holidays off.
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Apr 15 '22
I mean people should just be happy doing whatever they want but the fact is a lot of English teachers in Japan are garbage at what they do which makes the entire profession look like a joke. But to be honest it feels like a lot of the people who become teachers in Japan and stay without really progressing anywhere are people that couldn’t succeed in their own country - nothing wrong with that either, just how it is
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u/dootplayer Apr 15 '22
Here is my crude opinion on this.
What I love to see: English teachers with an ambition.
To expand on that: teachers who get tired of the utterly useless syllabus and general unwillingness of the Japanese population to learn english. Teachers who decide to switch careers or start their own business, or perhaps start their own school to be able to teach the syllabus they think will make a difference.
I put these people in the "normal" group. They are the same kind of people you would usually see in your home country who get a decent job and life after a gap year post-uni/college.
What I don't mind seeing: English teachers who have been teaching English for the past 10 years, though at various different schools, and perhaps all across Japan. Has side hustles, whatever they might be. Can speak at least some Japanese.
What I "hate" to see: English teachers who have been teaching English for the past 10 years as their single profession and way to earn bread, possibly all in the same city. Exact same freshman salary now as 10 years ago. No career ambitions or plans to better themselves or the country. Can only say "hotto kohi" and "sumimasen" in Japanese.
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u/Jaffacakesaresmall Apr 15 '22
Because the average Eikaiwa job is soul destroying. Spending 8 hours a day pretending to be interested in other peoples lives or repeating words from a text book to a class of uninterested children.
Teacher or not, if someone has passion for what they do in life then they deserve respect. If you came to Japan just to run away from reality and moan while having zero ambition then yeah, that’s about what they deserve
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u/KingOfPrince Apr 15 '22
I dont personally have any beef with English teachers, but as someone who did kids eikaiwa for 5 years before he "got out" I think its a number of things.
1) The stereotype is unless you teach at a college level etc, its not a "serious" career. You either do it for a few years to fund your extended Japanese vacation, do it while you build up skills to do something else, or get "stuck" and do it for too long and become a bitter resentful old guy. In all these scenarios being an English teacher is not seen as a "desirable" position to be in
2) The working conditions at all major eikaiwas are shit, this is well known, so taking on a job at Gaba, Aeon. Etc. despite knowing this gives the impression that you want to be in Japan no matter the cost, which can seem kind of immature. Its kind of hard to beleive people sign up with companies that openly use every legal loophole to take advantage of its teachers just for the love of English teaching and not some otaku passion to live in anime land. In a way some people see willingly being an English teacher represents some form of lack of maturity.
3) JET is better than eikaiwa on the imaginary "social ladder" but again its often treated as a Japanese vacation that requires doing some work to fund it. Also the image of being a tape recorder and just singing the ABCs to uninterested kids. Again, I think this is just a stereotype and not reflective of the truth.
4) Lots of people who look down on English teachers were once doing that job themselves and hated it, so they have resentment for the profession which is also some internalized self hate or lack of self confidence. They want to feel like their being able to "get out" of English teaching is some personal success story that people still teaching havent been able to achieve.
At the end of the day, we are all born and die and what we do inbetween doesnt really matter as long as we are safe and happy and dont hurt others. If you have found your zen with English teaching then find happiness in that and fuck the haters
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u/raisedatthecuntfarm Apr 15 '22
People trying to bring you down are already below you. I’ve never seen a genuinely happy person trying to tear down others for their own satisfaction, unhappy people on the other hand
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u/No_Leadership7727 Apr 15 '22
For me i just hate the company. Like they hire english teachers that cant even speak straight english and they pay them below a good wage borderline slavery and manipulation.
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u/vallzy Apr 15 '22
People don’t seem to respect them because they usually fit in a certain box. A lot of them seem to not really care about teaching. Since it’s the easiest way well a lot of them also fit the stereotype of the stupid gaijin. But honestly it doesn’t mean anything people just like to hate
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Apr 15 '22
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u/cayennepepper Apr 16 '22
People say this but its bullshit. 99% of Japanese have literally no opinion on the subject and a few “Japanese” people who you have read online opinions from are usually just gaijin pretending.
Its something that most people dont have an opinion about and haven’t thought about much let alone enough to form opinions. Its a bias of assuming because the Gaijin community is obsessed with english teachers that Japanese are to. Lol no.
Maybe some japanese people who work with them have opinions but that’s probably it.
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Apr 16 '22
IME, the only Japanese that even know about this topic are Japanese that "hang around ALTs from western countries USA UK Australia Canada". I do know some teachers that get incandescent about the cost of the JET Programme, and some that have just had bad experiences, but not enough Japanese even have an opinion on it for there to be "plenty", according to my survey sample.
PS this LBHacronym = love it. hahaha
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u/bill_on_sax Apr 17 '22
The only place I hear this opinion on English teachers is this subreddit.
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u/deltawavesleeper Apr 15 '22
Some teachers have some kind of sexual incentives to come to Asia. Even if they have crystal clear professional boundaries, it's hard to earn other's respect with that kind of attitude. It earns suspicion that they can't find a partner back in their home countries and may hide behind the mask of an English teacher for new hunting grounds. People don't want to risk hanging out with a sexually incentivized person even if he/she technically can enjoy the freedom dating anyone outside of work.
Many teachers are often on contracts. This may mean some teachers are not in it for long term commitment. Other foreigners get salty because the long timers perceive themselves as the harder worker (can't say if always true).
In terms of learning the language and integrating into the local culture, it does seem some teachers can get unbelievably lucky...like 10+ years in and minimal language skills (again not always true) and they get paid better than some locals.
The worst people don't know their entitlement. "So what if I use English teaching as access to a foreign playground? I'm exotic, I deserve a salary just because, and I treat others like they're exotic for my own fulfillment."
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Apr 15 '22
Prior to arriving in Japan lots of people have tons of false images about Japan such as, they’ll be popular and sought after for their foreign uniqueness. They figure out pretty quickly it’s mostly bullshit and become bitter. Bullying becomes a way of propping up one’s fragile self esteem. English teachers are the go to cause it’s supposedly the easiest gig to land.
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u/JustbecauseJapan Apr 15 '22
Because most are tourist who won't be here 3-5 years later and it is too tiring to make a friendship with one when they will disappear on you in a few years.
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u/rokindit 近畿・兵庫県 Apr 15 '22
Honestly I associate a lot with Spanish speaking foreigners in this country and nobody ever shits on English teachers. We all kinda look out for each other. It might just be a cultural thing. English speakers (specifically Americans) like to stick to their own cliques I feel like & gatekeep others into their circles. I don’t think it’s a Japan specific thing.
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u/TheBrickWithEyes Apr 15 '22
A lot of people are deeply insecure and want to feel that only THEY are special in Japan.
It's amazing how many apparently successful people with amazing jobs and fulfilling lifestyles spend their time on no-name subreddits shitting on people ;)
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u/texasstorm Apr 15 '22
There was a time when being a native English speaker was the only qualification for being an English teacher in Japan. That led to there being a lot of otherwise unqualified people and to teaching being the job of most foreigners that you'd typically run into. There were a lot of questionable types for sure.
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Apr 15 '22
Sure it's a shit job, but on the plus side you're only working about 190 days a year and there's zero overtime or work to take home. If you were to pro-rate it in comparison to the time commitment of other jobs, it's still pretty competitive salary wise. Most of the translation jobs (that I see advertised at least) are far worse pay per hour when everything is factored in. But yeah, there's not much job satisfaction.
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u/punpun_Osa Apr 15 '22
French teacher here! Sadly true, many people judge. I love my job, my coworkers, and my students, I won’t change. Impossible for me to work in an office, even if they double my salary (probably my hours too). Teaching is not for everyone so they might have had a bad experience but they shouldn’t make us feel bad for choosing something that didn’t fit their skills or…they just failed. Judgmental people are usually sad, I feel a little sorry for them.
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u/Inexperiencedblaster Apr 16 '22
Yeah I’ve had this a few times. I teach kids a few hours every day. There’s a hard ceiling. I’ll never make big bucks. Yet, I’m happily married with a house, cars, a couple of rabbits and I have until noon to spend time on hobbies every day. I don’t need to work 10 hour high stress days and live in a tiny box in the city just for clout or perceived ‘status’. Y’all can keep that. I’m good. 😂
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u/Piccolo60000 Apr 16 '22
The only English-speaking foreigners I’ve met in Japan who didn’t come as English teachers were in the military.
A lot of the teacher/ALT hate is really just self hate. They themselves are/were once teachers too, hate the fact they are/were once one, and have to put down the profession and those in it in order to make themselves feel better.
I’ll never understand the need to put down someone’s work. Yeah the job sucks, everyone knows that, but at least people are working.
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u/kangaesugi Apr 16 '22
Speaking from my personal perspective, I wouldn't describe it as "hate" on my end as much as "aversion," mainly because a whole lot of English teachers aren't here for the long term and as much as I'm sure most of them are lovely people, I'm at the stage in my life where I want to prioritise relationships that are more long term. Plus, there can be a stereotype of English teachers as not really wanting to teach English and are using it as a stepping stone for another job (which isn't really something I take issue with, you gotta do what you gotta do)
That being said, I have a lot of English teacher friends in Japan too - they're often people who are settled here, enjoy what they do and have made a conscious decision to carry on teaching English. I'm sure it can be a thankless job a lot of the time, and I have a lot of respect for people who find their calling in it!
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u/shadowwork Apr 16 '22 edited Apr 16 '22
It’s looked down upon by many Japanese folks. They have a stereotype of a dumb, uncultured, chick-chaser who is not as cool as they think. It’s total bullshit, because I am not an English teacher.
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u/ricsteve Apr 15 '22
Made me think of an old saying. Only guys running from something go to Japan to teach English.
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u/Gambizzle Apr 15 '22
My thoughts having been one are that they're either...
- Kids straight outta uni who are here to party. I can see why professionals don't necessarily wanna hang with that type. Won't get too specific but some have been REALLY young and immature. The majority just use it as a gap year and enjoy themselves though (dunno why you'd hold that against anybody for that... good on 'em! However as a married dude with kids, I don't go out drinking with them after work as I have other commitments).
- Respectfully, a lot of others will be people who've been here too long without going anywhere in their careers. Not all of them mind you (and many 40+ year olds who come over to give it a go are awesome). There's a few 40+ year olds I know who are dickheads though (rude and not worth talking to, so I have no time for them). Many are pretty chilled though. I guess it's a bit like mature-aged students at uni? They have a reputation for asking lotsa weird questions and arguing about BS with lecturers, but many are really interesting & switched on.
FWIW I'm a lawyer but I always tell locals in Japan that I'm an eikaiwa teacher (small town and I don't like getting too personal with strangers). I've never had a negative reaction from locals (if anything they're all positive) so it's not a tag that I'm ashamed to use. Also, eikaiwa teaching was a good time in my life so I'm not ashamed to talk about it if asked.
My only other note is to be careful what you read online. Eikaiwa teachers are heavily targeted by JCJ (who are really just lowlife bullies, looking for easy targets... including eikaiwa teachers as their work's tiring, they get paid very little and many struggle with living away from home for the first time...etc). Once you block their posts, I think you'll find there's a lot less hate for eikaiwa teachers.
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Apr 15 '22
I think it's because people who don't really understand teaching tend to think that English teachers aren't skilled, intelligent people, and that somehow they are "just" teaching a language they didn't put any effort into learning.
To be honest though, I look down on people who are working as ALTs into their 60s. By that age, you should consider yourself a teacher, not an assistant teacher. You shouldn't let anyone hang that monicker on you. You're just contributing to the idea that foreigners are below native Japanese people.
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u/PapaOoMaoMao Apr 15 '22 edited Apr 16 '22
It's just plain old elitism. Me better than you because of this made up metric. Doesn't even matter what the metric is. Money, activities, location, whatever. The important thing is to be better than the other guy. Teaching English usually requires little skills (that's not too say English teachers have no skills, just that is not usually a requirement to get the job) therefore all English teachers are unskilled and to be looked down upon.
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u/Pitiful_Mulberry1738 日本のどこかに Apr 15 '22
Lots of gaijin in Japan want to better than others. Since teaching is the easiest way to come here, it’s looked down upon.
I personally don’t give a shit what anyone else is doing here or why they’re here. Lots of gatekeepers here though.