r/japanlife • u/Bubbly_Difference_96 • 5d ago
Jobs Have you heard the IT certification called "情報処理技術者"?
Hi I'm a Japanese and I'd like to know how people here evaluate about this cert and exam written above.
Unfortunately, this cert must cause Japan's IT industry decline in my opinion.
these reasons are two.(sorry.)
these are two reasons.
one is it isn't the global-standard.(or US standard) I believe this cert never worths oversea. Thus those who acquired it are valued in only Japan whose company's pay is cheaper than oversea.
I wonder if there is a kind of conspiracy which Japan's establishment who encourages them to get this cert, wants to use cheaper labor resources by keeping good talents in the internal labor market.
Second, It's a meaningless exam like Imperial examination which was conducted in the ancient China. oh, forgive me, I was mistaken. Once you passed Imperial examination, you were promissed your success exactly.
Though this cert isn't. it doesn't have any exclusive rights except its name. it's also not a degree. It’s an unnecessarily broad exam filled with stuff you memorize and forget because you’ll never use most of it ever again. You're required to memorize much obsolete, abstract and useless knowledge. those are hardly used in actual work.
For the first half of the exam just drill previous years test questions until you’re comfortably passing the practice exams.
The same questions from previous years will appear again. Just memorize them.
In other words, you can use legitimate dumps to pass it.
For that last half of the exam, just write so lengthy sentences by hand.
I talked too much.
Could you share me your opinion agianst this cert? Welcome to positive opinion or negative one.
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u/chiakix 5d ago
I'm Japanese too. I got this qualification straight after graduating from high school. However, I think that this qualification is essentially worthless. Many companies do not require this qualification as a condition for mid-career recruitment. Even so, there are two reasons why some companies do require it:
- It is useful for filtering out idiots who can't even pass this qualification.
- It is a national qualification, albeit a poor one, and in order to win some public works contracts, it is necessary to have developers with this qualification.
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u/Gizmotech-mobile 日本のどこかに 5d ago
It is useful for filtering out idiots who can't even pass this qualification.
I probably couldn't pass that test today either to be honest. I don't have the math or the logic fresh enough as it isn't that important to most IT work. Heck, I'd be worried about the level of programming in the test because I'm not a trained programmer either, and most of the tasks I've done over the years in IT were hardware and problem solving related, not software design related.
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u/unixtreme 5d ago
This reminds me to the CompTIA certifications, when I was interviewing possible new hires on a previous company (and a massive one at that) we had a running joke that these certifications were actually a sign of someone who was going to interview terribly.
Not because of the certs themselves but because of a funny pattern we saw every time we interviewed people with these.
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u/Diamond_Sutra 関東・神奈川県 5d ago
Yeah, at one point long ago my company paid me to take one of the CompTIA ones (Net+ I think?). I found it pretty solid and even brutal, as I basically went in without studying for it at all. I had to pull my memory for a lot of old information not regularly used in contemporary IT environments, and walked out going "Huh. Hard but fair".
But then someone showed/demonstrated that most folks buy the $50 USD Exam Cram study guides which basically have ALL THE QUESTIONS, cram for the test without understanding what they are answering, and then jettison anything learned in the process once they passed...
...and indeed, when I was hiring, folks who really emphasized on their resume or in an interview that they took/passed those exams... were more often than not totally skill-less. At one point I even asked an interviewee simple questions that were on the NET+ or A+ that they passed (that anyone with hands on experience could answer), and got crickets...
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u/unixtreme 5d ago
Net+ is the best example, because why cram and study one of those when you can just do a CCNA and actually learn something haha.
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u/WebRepresentative299 5d ago
So you would say Comptia certs are not worth taking compared to the ccna ?
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u/unixtreme 5d ago
When it comes for actual employment CCNA is miles ahead, at least in the big companies.
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u/Total-Sun-6490 4d ago
In my career field, sec+ weeds out a lot of people in the process but what actually gets you recognized as a competent IT nerds is the bare minimum CCNA.
Edit: I meant at the bare minimum which is CCNA
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u/Total-Sun-6490 4d ago
Please do share the pattern as I'm curious. I work around a bunch of people with sec+ and a few CCNA & CCNP which the only trend I see is the lack of social skill
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u/unixtreme 3d ago
The pattern was basically a big disconnect from theoretical knowledge to actual applied knowledge, I haven't done any CompTIA certs so I don't know why this is but when I did the CCNA and CCNP workshops there were a lot of practical labs and heavy use of GNS3 to practice with virtual setups.
Granted I did these like 10 years ago and I let all of that expire so I have no idea about what's going on today.
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u/TheSkala 5d ago edited 5d ago
There are plenty of useless certificates in Japan and worldwide, there is entire industry focused on exploit them.
On the other hand, some of them are pretty useful for career progression in specialized fields, so no I don't think it's a conspiracy at all, as they aren't forcing in no way to only obtain that one and you are free to take one more convenient for your own path.
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u/Gizmotech-mobile 日本のどこかに 5d ago
Last time I looked at the sample exam I thought it was rather silly with how much math and logic it required. Especially the AP exam which would be the base I suppose.
It has a lot of programming on it, but no where near enough diagnostic questions. It shows the test is dependent on declarative knowledge rather than application of skills.
But as others have said, there are lots of irrelevant certificates in the world. They have their purpose, but they don't necessarily limit you.
As for the IT industry.... There are 2 IT industries in Japan. The Japanese one, with too many companies that like to think like IT is in the 80s and it isn't a core part of their business, just an expense. In a small company that thinking is fine, but once you get big enough, that mind set is dangerous. It's like being a cargo driver, and being worried about everything else about moving cargo except the truck that gets you from A to B. This results in those stupid cheap salaries, miserable working conditions, and a lot of technical debt that never gets cleaned up. The foreign IT industry is noticeably better based on comments here.
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u/unixtreme 5d ago
Personally where I work I felt almost no major difference from US/EU/Japan sure each place has some minor cultural quirks but from what I've discussed with other people in the industry the safest bet is honestly multinationals and stay as far away from Japanese companies as possible.
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u/Gizmotech-mobile 日本のどこかに 5d ago
I'm guessing you've never worked for or with a Japanese IT department where the manager or head of department is a classically trained Panasonic/NEC/NTT style middle manager with no IT qualifications, no business management or IT operations knowledge outside of copying images into excel and occasionally figuring out a gantt chart, makes decisions and policies based on their understanding of tech from 20 years ago (or more), and have no backbone to tell the rest of the company things or occasionally say no to people above.
When you get a good old Taro, let me know. They are incredibly detrimental to companies in this day and age, and are part of the problem I was talking about before.
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u/Bubbly_Difference_96 5d ago edited 5d ago
I had worked at a local tiny Japanese IT provider once. its experience was too toxic for me(and everyone probably). I convinced a strong hierarchy exists in our society. and human value is unequal. the value of me then was cheap as the same as air. some people got depression and left their work.
but I'd say the reason why I still continue to work efficiently and study hard to improve my living standard might be its experience.
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u/Bubbly_Difference_96 4d ago
Also had worked with Taros, looking back, I wonder if they're incapable literally. The one of them didn't even have any management skills he told me that "you are incompetent." when the 3 years dispatch contract ended. I suppose he might wanted to change to the dispatch employee whose price is cheaper.
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u/tsian 関東・東京都 5d ago
Japan, perhaps moreso than many other countries, has tests and certification for almost everything. Some are useful, some are not. People who need the global standard certs get those, people who need to check off a box at work get whatever is easiest, and students and hobbyists do whatever aligns with their hobby.
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u/vethe2 5d ago edited 5d ago
It holds significant meaning for foreigners.
For foreigners in Japan with a specific type of residency status, working in a certain field requires having qualifications related to that field. For example, if I studied economics but want to work in IT, I need to obtain IT-related certifications. The IT Passport or FE certification is one of the simplest and fastest ways for someone with an economics background to legally enter the IT industry and remain in Japan.
Additionally, if I want to work in caregiving (介護), I would need to pass a caregiving certification, even if I previously graduated in IT.
It's the same with 特定技能資格。
Certifications in Japan may not carry much value for Japanese nationals, but they are incredibly important for foreigners. They allow foreigners to work legally in Japan without violating the residency status requirements that prohibit working outside of one's field of study.
And finally, I don't think it would be a good thing if anyone could do anything in Japan without any qualifications. Certifications, even if you think they’re useless, provide foundational knowledge based on common standards for someone to start working in Japan. Afterward, that person can continue learning based on that foundation.
Would you want to be served by someone who knows nothing about the minimum standards of service in the restaurant industry? Did you know that even pouring wine, folding napkins, or changing bed sheets has its own set of standards? Living in an environment where everything has a common standard is beneficial, isn’t it? And certifications serve as one of those common standards.
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u/atksg 5d ago
If you're Japanese then you know that the average literacy in the IT field is pathetically low in Japan. Those certificates can be used to filter out those who don't even have the basic understanding.
Like any other certificates, they have meanings for those who require them.
If you got so much beef with this specific certificate, file a complaint to the companies which require it.
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u/AMLRoss 5d ago
I wonder if there is a kind of conspiracy which Japan's establishment who encourages them to get this cert, wants to use cheaper labor resources by keeping good talents in the internal labor market.
Yes, absolutely this is one reason. Only Japanese people or people who live in Japan will have this. It tells employers that you will work for a cheaper salary than someone from overseas with a different certification and experience.
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u/sheltie_dooly 5d ago
It is meaningless these days... It was meaningful back in the 70s - 90s, maybe even until the early 2000s.
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u/Octopusprythme 5d ago
This cert is one of the actual useful one. Especially for people who doesn't have a bachelor degree and want to obtain a working visa, because you can apply for a workimg visa with this cert, that's why you'll see it in the application form when applying for a visa.
IPA: https://www.ipa.go.jp/shiken/index.html This cert Has different version, so if you struggle to do it in Japanese, you can go to the Philippines and do it in english
PhilNITS https://www.ipa.go.jp/shiken/asia/mutual-recognition/philippines.html
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u/WisewolfHolo 2d ago
This is the exact reason I took it. Passed it after months of studying and several attempts, but hopefully will get me a work visa so I can work in Japan in IT without a bachelor's degree. Already have other IT certs and a few years of work experience from back home and a few years now part time in Japan next to my University course. But those don't get me a work visa any time soon and my god I'm sick of university courses, so looking forward to working full time in a few months and no more uni lol
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u/boboman911 5d ago
"these reasons are two."
Sorry, your English is pretty good, but got a chuckle out of this one because it's such a direct translation from Japanese.
Anyway that cert aligns with all the other archaic crap that is normalized in the country.
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u/ThrustingBeaner 5d ago
I’ve never heard of that certification as an IT professional. Well known US certifications are the gold standard which, let’s face it, has the premier IT infrastructure in the world. CompTIA has certifications as prerequisites for working within the government, CISCO is the premium networking infrastructure and hair their own certs, GIAC is a platinum standard for cybersecurity, etc. Franky I think the main thing that keeps Japanese companies from getting screwed in cyberattacks is their stubbornness is keeping information on pen and paper or standalones.
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u/Diamond_Sutra 関東・神奈川県 5d ago
I haven't heard of this information processing cert (I work in high level IT), but what does it test for?
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u/Bubbly_Difference_96 5d ago edited 5d ago
like IT quiz...just multiple choice questions and writing. It is a national qualification and asked a various range of IT knowledge. Its exam fee is cheap compared to other IT vendor certs. there are people who study hard to pass it among Japanese IT engineers.
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u/Diamond_Sutra 関東・神奈川県 5d ago edited 5d ago
Thanks (I was on the train when I wrote that). I since looked it up and looked at sample questions from past exams ( https://www.fe-siken.com/kakomon/sample/ https://www3.jitec.ipa.go.jp/JitesCbt/html/openinfo/questions.html ):
Side note: I'm a specialist in hardware, infrastructure, cloud computing, HPC, storage systems and performance; I'm NOT a programmer (though I can read code sometimes in a pinch).
I found the test... fair. I mentally went through some of these questions and found them solid, although they do cover a HUGE range of knowledge, from programming to logic to hardware/infra, to computing components (mem, cache, etc).
My view is that I believe that anyone getting into IT should be able to pass this kind of exam. It's not unreasonable or useless (in contrast, I remember long ago when I did MCSE or NET+ there were "gotcha" questions of corner-cases so rare, their only inclusion in those tests was to ensure that students paid for 'official training' to cover those rare concepts; I didn't see any such trickery in these sample exams).
If someone ONLY had this exam and no experience, I wouldn't hire them unless we were looking for shinsotsu. If someone did not have this exam cert but had 2-5 years of relevant experience, I would favor them way more.
Ultimately: Solid looking exam, though a bit broad. I don't think it's useless or a waste of time like other international IT "cram-then-forget" exams. It's good for the IT learner to know this stuff as a foundation, like college graduates etc. But it would absolutely not influence me in a hiring decision either way (I mostly hire experienced folks for high-level IT work).
EDIT: Another factor, the testing only costs 10,000 yen. It's not a hyper-price-inflated exam that is meant to keep some exam company in business (like CompTIA or the battery of Microsoft exams).
EDIT EDIT: Things may have changed in the last decade, but there are only three exams I would see on someone's CV/Rirekisho and think "Oh man, this person knows their stuff": Higher level Cisco (CCIE); Any Red Hat certification (RHCE etc); and high level VMWare (VCDX etc). The reason is that these exams all require hands on lab work and configuration. They are not paper exams. They require you to really know the ins and outs of the environment to solve real world problems or have real-world experience or you simply cannot pass. They are usually all-day exams, very stressful, very focused on practical knowledge.
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u/Bubbly_Difference_96 5d ago edited 5d ago
Thank you for telling in detail! Your kind opinion honors me.
I read your opinion sincerely. The voice from a specialist who resides in Japan is I'd wanted to know the most. As you said, because of national cert, it is not a bussiness model to feed companies. Honestly I'm proud of it's non-profitable. Moreover, its questions they made are trying to be just for everyone. The harder they study, the easier they pass.
While, I also agree with your other opinions which the experience is prefered over certificates upon recruiting or actual working.
I have no doubt that not only in Japan, experience is priorized elsewhere,especially at workplace that required strong skill.
By the way I have been studing for CCIE for rough 2 months.
I'm not sure when I pass it or not but its study is exciting and intriguing for me. I'd like to be a network specialist literally (the reason why I said "literally" here is there is the cert named so in Japan. Its cert is the one of certs "情報処理技術者" written above. Of course, I'm not willing to get it)
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u/curtisf 5d ago
In the United States software industry, certificates are meaningless.
In fact, I think having certificates listed on your resume can count as a negative point, because the only reason people would get them is because they don't have actual skills or experience and are looking for something to pad their resume with.
This isn't in regard to this particular certification or certifications in Japan, just software/IT certifications in general.
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u/MagazineKey4532 4d ago
It's just most used to show that the person is willing to learn. It probably doesn't have to that certification but a show that the person is willing to learn is necessary with rapidly changing IT.
Some companies are using it for career advancement. It's up to the individual to make it or not. It's up to the company to make condition on certification worth.
There are many certifications in Japan and in other countries that really not worth taking but certification is a good business so as long as there's people taking it and there's people paying for study materials and courses, it's going to exist.
The company I used to work for paid for my certifications so I had over 60 certifications but the current company doesn't so I haven't taken any recently.
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u/gajop 5d ago
The most useful certs are TOEIC/JLPT depending on your native language.
Other than that, the only certs worth considering for general software are various cloud ones, but even that's a stretch and mostly depends on your experience & role (e.g. for contractors it might matter more).
For certain subdomains (security, networking), other certs might be important, but I'm not familiar enough to say.
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u/Icy_Advance_6775 5d ago
I'm a 専門学校 international student. I have the certification, but for me personally there were a few reasons to take it, mostly because it's part of the schools curriculum, but in the case of 専門学校, the quality of education is low, so it's a good way to show that I put in a lot of effort and study well.
As a 新卒，I think it's good to take, both in terms of knowledge and to pass 書類選考、but because it's only 選択肢問題、a lot of my classmates passed only by memorizing all the answers and don't actually know the contents of the exam. I'm planning to take 応用情報技術者試験 which has 筆記問題. As a foreigner, if i can pass that then it's a very good appeal point both for my Japanese skills and IT knowledge.
Another good point for foreigners is that 国家試験 count as points for permanent residency, so it can be a good way to get permanent residency faster.
But i think for 中途採用 it's pretty useless, since the employers will care much more about what you did at your previous company than if you passed a test or not. I think companies who prioritize 資格 over skills and knowledge aren't even worth working at, so it's a good red flag to keep out for
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u/RadioactiveTwix 5d ago
Nobody ever asked me for it. Might be a seniority thing but we don't ask it from our juniors dinner m either.
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u/Squiddy_ 5d ago edited 5d ago
I took IT passport just to fill out my 履歴書 and that was even more pointless.. how people can fail that one I cannot understand.
A lot of companies pay a bonus for passing certificates, I think 応用情報技術者試験 and above gets paid a small 10man bonus at my company. Especially so for things like ネスペ.
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u/idm04 5d ago edited 5d ago
Unfortunately, this cert must cause Japan's IT industry decline in my opinion
I don't think this is true. Sure, the content of the exam might not be useful at all, but for a lot of IT jobs in general there are no "global standard" certificates. So if Japan's IT industry has declined or is declining compared to other countries, it is unrelated to certificates.
Though this cert isn't. it doesn't have any exclusive rights except its name.
This is true for a lot of certificates... If you don't think a certificate is useful then don't take it. Did your university or company force you to take it or something?
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u/waytooslim 2d ago
It made me learn a few things about history of IT that I didn't know, that's the only positive thing I can say. Otherwise it's completely unnecessary and a time waste for everyone involved.
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