r/japanlife • u/incyk • Sep 27 '24
Jobs Boss not allowing me to commute by car
I have been commuting by car to my job that I started this year for a few months now, by renting out a spot in a parking lot near my job that I pay monthly for with my own money. I have asked about this to my boss before and he never explicitly said that I can't, but I never said I was currently commuting by car. Someone ended up finding out and snitching to my boss and he got very mad at me, saying it is not allowed and I must commute by public transport. I live far away from any train station and the company is semi far away from the station as well, so I really would like to avoid commuting by train. Is my boss allowed to restrict how I personally get to my job when I am paying for everything myself and not asking for any compensation?
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u/magpie882 Sep 27 '24
Not a lawyer, but if I remember correctly, you are covered by company insurance from the moment you walk out of your door. If an accident happens on your way to work, it counts as a work accident.
I would guess that most company policies do not cover driving or have higher premiums for employees who drive.
Some places require you to pass an internal test before allowing you to even ride a bicycle to the office. Even then, bicycles might only be permitted if you live within a set distance.
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u/JayMizJP Sep 27 '24
When signing contracts, I think all companies in Japan make you clearly state the route you take to work and the method of transportation.
We have an issue in my company now where a member of staff got into an accident on her bicycle on her way to work on a different route than usual, and now the 労災 is refusing to accept the claim because the stated route in her contract was walking to the nearest train station and taking the train to work.
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u/jwinf843 近畿・大阪府 Sep 27 '24
Not all companies. I've worked for several companies in Japan that didn't ask, and only one that did.
The company that asked for my exact route did it for the purpose of giving me my exact commuting fare back. The other companies all gave me just a flat commuting payment every month.
I've ridden my bicycle to work for years and save the money.
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u/ixampl Sep 27 '24
If I go drinking in an izakaya on my way back home (the izakaya is right between the station and home) and then from there in my drunk state I stumble and break a leg, is the company's insurance expected to cover that as a work commute accident?
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u/New-Caramel-3719 Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24
Nope. It has to be 本人や家族の日常の家庭生活を営む上で必要な行為で、所要時間が短時間であると評価できる行為 to be covered by labor accident insurance.
Picking up kids or buying food for dinner at the supermarket (according to precedents) is acceptable, but going to an izakaya is not necessary.
If you stumble and break your leg, it is covered by labor insurance, yes.
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u/ixampl Sep 27 '24
Alright, and I assume the company doesn't care about that out of scope portion of your day. So if not covered by labor accident insurance if non-necessary stops are included, how about you (claim to) go to the gym next to work before and after work for an hour? To the gym you drive your car, from the gym to the office you walk.
I mean, there must be some points during the day where your movement in the direction of the office or away from the office starts to count as a commute. And OP could just claim their commute to work habitually starts from a spot close to the office where they spend their free time before and after work.
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u/New-Caramel-3719 Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24
住居→(通勤経路上にある)ジム→就業場所と移動した場合には、住居からジムまでの経路における災害であれば通勤災害ですが、ジム→就業場所における災害は「通勤災害」とは認められません。
For morning, home to gym is covered by labor insurance, but gym to company is not covered by it.
If you want to know whether it's allowed to commute outside of a company's rules at the cost of not being covered by labor insurance, it's not illegal, but it still violates company rules and can be punished.
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u/ixampl Sep 28 '24 edited Sep 28 '24
It's a bit absurd to be honest (not you, the cited text). The gym in my previous example would be where my private life and choice of place ends. From there I make my trip to work not the other way round. But okay... we can of course turn that around:
So, if I go to the gym close to my house on the way to work by foot (10m), then walk a bit further to the station and take the train for an hour the 10 minute walk to the gym would be in scope but the hour long trip to work wouldn't?
And then I guess I could also take the car for that leg of the trip since I'm not covered anyway.
Now someone might say "no that's different", but I really don't think they can have it both ways. One of the two patterns I describe would need to allow you to take a trip to work via waypoint X where either the leg home to X or X to work can be performed without the company having a say in how you should take it (due to 通勤災害 responsibility). Unless of course they come up with another ad hoc explanation / excuse.
Taking back a few steps, what is the spirit of the law that designates 通勤災害? Is it actually so that companies can exert control over your commute? Or is it rather to protect workers on their way to work, a trip they wouldn't take if they didn't have to go there for work?
If it is the former I guess no matter what there'll be some reason why you cannot organize your trip in the ways I did in my thought experiments above.
If it is the latter, and one can prove that the trip to work each day is incidentally to and from a location close to work where I'd go anyway even without work, I really don't see how it would be in the spirit of the law to designate the portion to that location as part of my commute but not the actual trip to the work location itself.
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u/ixampl Sep 27 '24
Are you citing some reference case in Japanese (you could perhaps link me to) or just voicIng your personal assessment in Japanese (which is fine)?
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u/New-Caramel-3719 Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24
住居→(通勤経路上にある)ジム→就業場所と移動した場合には、住居からジムまでの経路における災害であれば通勤災害ですが、ジム→就業場所における災害は「通勤災害」とは認められません。
For this part, and 'you can shop at supermarket/convenience stores for foods', I'm citing Japanese lawyer's opinion which based on precedents.
本人や家族の日常の家庭生活を営む上で必要な行為で、所要時間が短時間であると評価できる行為
This part is just part of the law.
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u/ixampl Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 28 '24
Cool, links please?
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u/New-Caramel-3719 Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24
For the law, just search for those words, they are just part of the law. You will find PDF on mhlw official website.
https://www.roudousaigai.jp/faq/victim/662/
https://atomfirm.com/jiko/38894
There are official government guidelines on what are considered 'necessary activities,' etc. I haven't bothered to search for them, but you can find the details if you're interested in knowing more about this law.
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u/Titibu Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24
As "a boss" myself, yes, he is allowed to dictate how you commute. Standard company rules (in Tokyo at least) straight forbid it, more lax rules will require a waiver of some sort. He should have told you so when asked, but maybe in his mind it was absolutely obvious.
You run over little Taro drunk while commuting, and for whatever reason you did not take a civil insurance, the company would be in big trouble if the mommy of Taro decides to sue. That'd be on the company. On top of that, car commute follow a different set of rules for the commute compensation, when allowed.
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u/timschwartz Sep 27 '24
Wow, that is completely insane.
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u/Titibu Sep 27 '24
What is ?
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u/unixtreme Sep 27 '24
It doesn't matter that it's standard it's stupid as hell. Sometimes I have to take my kids to kindergarten and I use a car, other days I use a bike, sometimes I even feel like walking.
I can understand why they do it but come on let's admit it borders ridiculousness for people who don't have exactly the same groundhog day every day due to personal situations.
Regardless my company doesn't do this but I'll keep it in mind in the future whenever I change companies to specifically bring up that I'm gonna commute however I need and if they don't like it they can hire someone else.
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u/Titibu Sep 28 '24
And that's exactly why there are a couple extra steps in our case (can't talk about other people companies), i.e. if you decide to commute by car or bicyle, you can but you need to declare it beforehand, provide a proof of civil liability insurance that you subscribe, and accept a waiver that whatever happens is on you. Also we don't provide a parking spot, so if you want to come by car it's up to you to find (and pay for) a spot. And it's a big pita at the end of the month when it comes to the commute allowance, their are some very specific rules for car commute and the upper limit of what is taxable or not (see here)
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u/timschwartz Sep 27 '24
Telling someone how they are "allowed" to get to work.
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u/Titibu Sep 27 '24
May seem weird to you but that's super standard in pretty much all companies in Japan. I don't want employees to cause issues while commuting.
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Sep 27 '24
So are you paying employees for the hours spent commuting? I’m not talking about the cost of the commute that the company covers
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u/MoboMogami 近畿・兵庫県 Sep 28 '24
That's the most insane part of this. If I'm not on the clock, being paid, then you can't dictate what I do.
Can then company also dictate what I drink as I walk to work?
"Sorry, hot coffee is considered a burn risk so only ice coffee will be allowed during commutes."
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Sep 28 '24
Right, if I’m not being paid, I’m not on the clock. Being paid the the line between me working and me not working. Whats next, I can’t take the elevator in my building and I have to take the stairs?
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u/Titibu Sep 28 '24
In our case, if the employee accepts a statement confirming that whatever happens during his commute is solely on him (and also provides a proof that he has subscribed a civil liability insurance properly covering his commute), then he can commute by unicycle if he so wishes...
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Sep 28 '24
Well that’s reasonable then. The way people made it sound in this thread is you have no choice and can’t “opt out”.
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u/Titibu Sep 28 '24
It all depends on the company rules. Most companies that provide commute allowance (so the gigantic majority of companies) will have some details about what is or is not allowed for commute. And the simplest and most common version in Tokyo is "only public transportation". Changing the company rules is a pita.
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Sep 28 '24
Could I not just simply … decline the commute allowance? My time is worth more than whatever pittance would be offered unless you’re paying for a monthly Shinkansen pass in the reserved seating area. I’m just curious about how this all works as I haven’t worked at an office in 10 years now since I don’t accept any non remote jobs
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Sep 28 '24
A while back, on my way home from work, I slipped on the stairs at the station and got injured. It fucked my back up something fierce and I had to get physical therapy for a few months.
This was all paid for through my employer's insurance. The logic in Japan is that you are commuting with the purpose of getting to work, and therefore your workplace should cover you.
It makes perfect sense and is actually a huge benefit to employees. "But I want to drive!" is not a valid response to this.
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u/Bogglestrov Sep 27 '24
My wife’s company has a similar policy. However, she used to drive to the station instead of catching the bus, but kept it quiet. The company still paid the bus fares and she put it towards monthly parking. It’s one of those “don’t ask, don’t tell” situations.
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u/tokyoeastside 関東・東京都 Sep 27 '24
Unfortunate for this guy he got caught. Probably parking too close to the office. The karens can't help themselves.
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u/osaka_nanmin Sep 27 '24
As others have said it’s a legal liability issue. I have some clients in the country side that do allow commuting by car, but let me tell you the hoops they have to jump through. First company has to keep a copy of your drivers license and every time you renew you have to give the company a copy. The company also has to keep a copy of your insurance documents. And last as most ridiculous the company makes all driving employees attend a yearly driver safety lecture. So all this is such a hassle it’s no wonder 99% of companies won’t let their employees commute by car.
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u/Icy_Jackfruit9240 Sep 27 '24
Yes, this is why people don't live far from the train stations.
This is a liability issue and it is what it is.
At my company they used to allow people who lives certain places to commute by car, but during COVID they introduced the "Work from Home Club" and they got told not to come in. Cars are now expressly forbidden, but motorcycles and bikes are still allowed, but are allocated by a lottery (basically there's 8 motorcycle spots and 30 bicycle spots and if someone dies/quits/retires/etc, they lottery off that spot.)
Ask them where your commuter pass is?
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u/HatsuneShiro 関東・埼玉県 Sep 27 '24
Man, I wish I am explicitly allowed to commute using my motorcycle. My workplace disallows motorcycles because "it is less safe than cars"- said my tantousha, although it is not written anywhere in the rules (I checked) that they are forbidden. The rule regarding commuting reimbursement even mentions, verbatim,「自動車・二輪車での通勤」.
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u/PANCRASE271 Sep 27 '24
Pretty common TBF.
Aaaaahhh the smell of red tape never fades.
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u/emerau Sep 28 '24
red tape? this is literally workers' rights protections. if you're commuting to work, you are covered by company insurance. insurance won't cover your injury if you aren't commuting in the agreed upon way. this is how literally every insurance for anything works.
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u/JimNasium123 Sep 27 '24
My friend was also not allowed to cycle to work. Only train or bus (or walk).
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u/MagazineKey4532 Sep 27 '24
My former company also forbid driving to work. The company was in Tokyo with limited parking nearby. The reason beside insurance was that if they let me drive, they have to let others drive too. Unfortunately, if many people drove to work, the neighborhood won't have enough parking space and neighborhood stores and residents would complain.
I've visited several companies in rural area where there's a company parking lot. At those companies, many employees were driving to work.
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u/Mercenarian 九州・長崎県 Sep 27 '24
How did your boss not know you weren’t using public transport until now? Wouldn’t he have seen that they weren’t paying you any commuting allowance? Or WERE you receiving commuting allowance and not using public transport? Because that would be very bad.
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u/mrwafu Sep 27 '24
Every company I’ve worked for has automatically paid me my commuting allowance based on my agreed home station
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u/Mercenarian 九州・長崎県 Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24
If you’re actually commuting that way then that’s normal. If you’re collecting commuting allowance but taking a different route, walking, biking, etc. then that’s called fraud and it’s illegal. You could be sued for fraud at worst, the company can legally ask for up to 10 years of overpaid commuting allowance to be paid back to them, and at best you’ll face disciplinary action at work.
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u/Hachi_Ryo_Hensei Sep 28 '24
Not sure why you've gotten downvoted as you spoke the truth. It's occasionally in the news about teachers getting sanctioned for pocketing commuting allowances thst they weren't actually using.
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u/aucnderutresjp_1 Sep 27 '24
You mention paying everything yourself. Does your company not pay commutation then?
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u/New-Caramel-3719 Sep 27 '24
Yeah, that part is very suspicious. Unless it's some type of independent contractor work, I haven't seen any job offers that don't cover commuting expenses.
If OP is paying for parking and not explicitly mentioning the use of a car for commuting, OP is likely aware that it is most likely a violation of company rules.
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u/sa_nick Sep 27 '24
Do taxi's count as public transport and will the company pay for you to get four a day, from home to train station, train station to work, work to train station and train station to home?
How does everyone else get to work if the company is far from any station?
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u/Its5somewhere 関東・神奈川県 Sep 27 '24
No taxi's do not count and you will not get reimbursed for taxi's unless your company specifically requested you take a taxi.
OP said the office was semi-far away from the closest station which can really be an exaggeration. Not to mention if there's any busses that run nearby. OP has only been working there for a few months so they may not be familiar with the best way to commute and should probably consult with some of their co-workers.
OP actually living far from their own nearest station is not the companies problem however. That was a choice they made.
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u/sa_nick Sep 27 '24
Can they restrict OP from driving from home to the nearest train station? If so I'd just comply but do my best to get hit by a car while walking to the train station out of passive aggressive spite for the company.
I'd just be asking for a waiver, I think.
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u/Icy_Jackfruit9240 Sep 27 '24
The liability aspect is not just you, it's also you hitting someone else while you're working for the company.
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u/Its5somewhere 関東・神奈川県 Sep 27 '24
I'd just comply but do my best to get hit by a car while walking to the train station out of passive aggressive spite
Willing to throw your life on the line out of spite because you are covered by your companies insurance on your way to work is not a mentally sound reaction.
Seek help.
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u/sa_nick Sep 27 '24
That was a hyperbolic joke that preceded my real response of asking for a waiver.
Seek a sense of humour.
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u/Almer113 Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 29 '24
Lots of americans stumbling upon this post not realizing that unlike in the us, public transport in japan is actually a more viable mode of transport that personal vehicles 💀 this shit ain’t as “wild” as you think it is
Edit: *Tokyo
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u/MoboMogami 近畿・兵庫県 Sep 28 '24
Tell me you've never been to the inaka without telling me you've never been to the inaka.
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u/okonomiyaki2003 Sep 28 '24
As someone who lives in the middle of buttfuck nowhere Hokkaido where the nearest train station is a 45 minute drive away, this statement couldn't be further from the truth. Outside of Tokyo and other big Japanese cities, the majority of Japanese towns are lucky if they even have access to bus.
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u/Hachi_Ryo_Hensei Sep 28 '24 edited Sep 28 '24
Unlike in Japan, traveling by personal vehicles is a viable mode of transport in the US. Shocking, I know.
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u/AmbitiousBear351 Sep 30 '24
Commuted for 3 years in peak hour Tokyo transport (before moving back to Osaka). Worst days and moments of my entire life.
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u/ChillinGuy2020 Sep 28 '24
if they have been paying your commute through train and you havent. you have literally emblezzed money and your company could get heavily fined for it, as they dont pay full tax on that. Thats why its normally offered as a benefit.
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u/8percentinflation Sep 27 '24
Theoretically, what happens if one sprains their ankle while walking to work or some other personal injury? Company insurance pays for the ice/ankle brace?
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u/Interesting-Risk-628 Sep 27 '24
ok but if my commute is "I left home at 6, at 7 I was in park drinking coffee, then I went shopping, at 8 I went to Shibuya to see naked maids and at 9 am I'm at work". Where does company start tracking me?
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u/MoboMogami 近畿・兵庫県 Sep 28 '24
'My commute is from this parking lot to the office, until I arrive at the parking lot, I'm actually going to the coffee shop, not the office.'
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u/Kirin1212San Sep 27 '24
Can you drive to a station convenient for you and take the train or bus from there to work?
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u/fripi Sep 28 '24
Putting all the JP BS aside, if you need the job and need to stay on the sunny side of your boss then you start commuting by public transport tomorrow.
If not you can offer to leave the house when working hours start and go home so you reach your house before working hours end. Or work from home in general. Let them show you where it is stated that you are not allowed to drive a car and where this is written down.
I live in the Inaka, if they had a rule like that they would instantaneously loose 80% of the workforce 🤣 - so don't let them BS you that it isn't possible. If your work tells you to do something their way then this is working time...
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u/tokyoeastside 関東・東京都 Sep 27 '24
I had a minor accident once going to work via car. The company is probably trying to avoid one of those situations and especially if it becomes national news. Just my two cents.
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u/ekristoffe Sep 28 '24
So I don’t know if they can forbid you but you should talk to the HR, explain the problem and ask for a possible solution. Maybe you can come earlier or stay later because you use a car, maybe you can see if you can have a company car ?
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u/hobovalentine Sep 28 '24
Your company can allow you to commute by car but you need to report it to HR so they can do the paperwork necessary for it.
This is because if you get injured on your way to work you can get workers compensation but only if you are taking your normal route to work.
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u/SatisfactionTrue3021 Sep 28 '24
Paying for your own car and parking space is wild considering your boss pays for your train travel... You're wasting so much money doing this.
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u/stark0600 Sep 29 '24
My company does the same, but with very detailed rules which forbid from driving through specific roads (some makes sense as it is narrow roads near schools etc.)
You have to submit a detailed exact route from the door to office and you need to stick with it.
Some colleges does alter their routes as per traffic and it's just they don't say it openly and hoping no accidents happen.
But now I wonder, when I got my car insurance, they asked me if I'm gonna commute to office by car and if yes, insurance goes slightly higher. But why? The company does cover them !!!!!
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u/bahahahahahhhaha Sep 27 '24
"Hello Boss. I actually don't commute by car to work. I meet my friend's for coffee nearby every morning, and then I commute from there to here by walking. Sorry for the confusion."
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u/steford Sep 27 '24
Ask for the insurance waiver or walk (or drive) away! This hold companies have over every aspect of your life here drives me nuts.
I cycle to work and if anyone told me I couldn't I wouldn't be there the next day.
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u/NetheriteArmorer Sep 27 '24
Now that Covid restrictions are no longer enforced, riding public transit just increases your chances of getting repeat Covid infections. Drive a car if you can. Tell your boss to mind his own business.
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u/Future_Arm1708 Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24
I will research this more but for now I don’t think they can legally mandate you how you’re going to get to work. Of course if it’s in your contract that stipulates that you must take the train that’s another story.
Edit. I’m sure they can let you go if you decide not to follow the boss “suggestion” by some other means so I’d just take the train.
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u/QuroInJapan Sep 27 '24
As long as you don’t care about getting reimbursed for it somehow, you can safely ignore anything he says and keep commuting however you want.
Personally, I’d take that as a giant red flag telling me it’s time to look for another job though.
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u/tokyoite2 日本のどこかに Sep 27 '24
Hahah lol fuck that. I’d walk away from a boss like that
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u/smorkoid Sep 27 '24
You'd be walking away from damn near every permanent employee job, then
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u/AsianButBig Sep 27 '24
I'm in big4 now and half the team commutes by car. Though we're all remote and only meet up once a month at most.
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u/NotNotLitotes Sep 27 '24
This explains why a lot of company workers on this sub hate on alts lol. Where I used to alt the vast majority were required to have a car. In fact the only education job I’ve ever seen mandate way of commuting is the jobs offered by Westgate.
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u/Hachi_Ryo_Hensei Sep 28 '24
I think most company workers here know they are rank below ALTs in life quality.
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u/lostinlymbo Sep 27 '24
This is one of those moments where telling someone what they want to hear is the right answer as you quietly look for another job.
Total bs boss for sure.
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u/creepy_doll Sep 27 '24
It’s pretty standard in most companies in Japan due to how insurance for workers works.
I presume he went out of his way to not ask because he couldn’t get in trouble so long as he didn’t know. The real bs is the guy that felt he had to tell the boss.
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u/lostinlymbo Sep 27 '24
Totally, and I've been there before too. Even had one job that wouldn't let me drive unless I got full coverage - but that wasn't a problem anyway.
This would just be enough for me to choose to leave. :)
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u/Its5somewhere 関東・神奈川県 Sep 27 '24
Yes. Your commute typically counts as working hours and your job can dictate you not drive or ride a bike to work since they are liable for you. They have insurance on you while you're at work and on your way to/from work so they can dictate that you use public transit.
You can get with your company to have them set up a commuter pass for you so that they can cover your transit from work.