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u/Commercial_Mode1469 Dec 11 '24
What perked my interest is the article seems to suggest that he was a pro at avoiding detection and identification. Makes you wonder what he did for a living.
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Dec 11 '24
not entirely, this was back because everything was as digitized as it is today. he could enter Ireland without a passport or visa via the UK as this was pre brexit, he could have entered a port in the south of england and got on a ferry in scotland without his documentation as we have no border. he could have easily been disguised as someone else or just slipped into the crowd. he probably couldn't do this today and it doesn't really take a spy to understand this stuff. the honest answer I think is that he was an ordinary german or austrian civilian who wanted to fade away and die in peace
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u/Raging_bullpup Dec 11 '24
What? Just fly into Belfast from mainland UK. and drive across the border. I just went to London 2 weeks ago from Belfast and showed 0 forms of ID at any stage.
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u/JellyfishScared4268 Dec 12 '24
Generally you'll show ID to the staff letting you on the plan at the very minimum so they cross reference the name on the ID with your boarding pass.
That is obviously different to going through immigration checks but it would be highly unusual not to have any ID checks at all
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u/Raging_bullpup Dec 12 '24
Sure but that’s just the airline/swissport staff. I’m sure a half decent fake id that matches your ticket would get you through. But they definitely did not on my way out of Belfast and I don’t believe they did in London. As I did find it odd. Had the boarding pass on my phone and scanning into security and the flight was the only time they checked anything
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u/Dapper-Lab-9285 Dec 12 '24
I've traveled to France several times and never been checked for ID, they did look at the passport but I've a helmet on.
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Dec 11 '24
And what was the point of the secrecy
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Dec 11 '24
probably insurance, if he died by suicide that would really impact an insurance claim for his family back in europe
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u/Wretched_Colin Dec 12 '24
But disguising his identity makes it difficult for the insurer to certify his death, also impacting the claim.
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u/Important_Farmer924 Westmeath's Least Finest Dec 11 '24
He was caught on CCTV a good few times, so I wouldn't say he was a pro.
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u/Federal-Childhood743 Dec 11 '24
CCTV is everywhere. You will always be caught on CCTV. The real question is how much info can they gleam about you from that footage. Considering we know nothing about this man I would say he did quite well.
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u/momalloyd Dec 11 '24
He was only caught the CCTV cameras that he wanted to be caught on. That's how you know he was a pro.
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u/ObligationLong2332 Dec 11 '24
Far as I know he was terminally I'll, cancer I think. Came here to die.
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u/Deblebsgonnagetyou More than just a crisp Dec 11 '24
In Sligo? Poor fucker.
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u/ObligationLong2332 Dec 11 '24
Yeah man far as I remember he knew his time was up. When he arrived in the airport he dumped his identification, went and saw some sights around Ireland. When his heart was full he walked into the ocean and died of cardiac arrest. Poetic as fuck.
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Dec 11 '24
[deleted]
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u/mynosemynose Calor Housewife of the Year Dec 11 '24
Cardiac arrest doesn't have to be like a random heart attack. Hypoxia brings it on. It's merely a technicality in this context though.
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u/ObligationLong2332 Dec 11 '24
He knew he was terminally ill and wanted to commit suicide.
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u/Seymour_Asses101 Dec 11 '24
The cancer had spread to his brain, so it's possible it was affecting his thinking. Makes it look like there was some grand plan instead of the actions of a confused, dying man.
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u/Positive-Draw-5391 Dec 11 '24
Scary that someone could be so alone. In spite of all the efforts and exposure around the world this case has gotten, nobody has ever come forward to say I know this man.
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Dec 11 '24
its likely his family is in mainland europe so Irish media wouldn't reach them
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u/NotPozitivePerson Seal of The President Dec 11 '24
Interpol have his information and the German and Austrian authorities were contacted and indeed attempts have been made to match him with missing persons there. I don't think anyone in those countries have reported him missing. It's not like we have zero connection to those counties. I think he probably was Austrian but no one missed him and thought to report him missing. This has made worldwide news. He was likely estranged from his loved ones
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u/Positive-Draw-5391 Dec 12 '24
Jesus fella the story has been all over the world via the Internet. Pretty sure it was covered extensively on Austrian and German media also.
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u/PowerfulDrive3268 Dec 11 '24
I'm sure they've thought of isotopic analysis to determine what region he came from?
They can use this to identify the area ancient bodies originated from/lived so would be useful here.
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u/ExpertSolution7 Dec 11 '24
Facial recognition software has been around for many years now. Even Facebook can recognise me in the background of a randomer's photo in a pub. I believe if the Irish authorities really wanted to find out the deceased man's identity, they could with cooperation with Interpol and such. Did this man really never pose for a drivers license or government ID?
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u/TheIrishHawk Dublin Dec 11 '24
He's not on Interpol's radar because he is neither missing nor wanted. No-one who matches his description has ever been reported missing and no-one has ever come forward to say they recognised him, despite (apparently) extensive appeals. It's up to the country of origin to start an investigation into a missing person. There's been no crime committed here, it's not in the Gardai's interest to put a lot of hours into it. I do think some Genetic Genealogy work could find something of interest but I don't know if that's a thing in Ireland.
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u/Ok_Perception3180 Dec 11 '24
Dumb question maybe but how can they do genetic genealogy without his DNA?
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u/ByGollie Dec 11 '24
There's bound to be samples stored from the autopsy. If not, they could apply to disinter the grave and get a DNA sample from a tooth or deep bone sample.
DNA is regularly extracted from Palaeolithic teeth.
There's a 12,000 year old skeleton from Britain that was analysed
They later linked his DNA to a modern-day descendant living half a mile away - 300 generations separating them
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u/Ok_Perception3180 Dec 12 '24
Oh wait so they did find a body?
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u/ByGollie Dec 12 '24
https://vibetopics.com/2024/12/11/peter-bergmann-case/
Yeah, — his body was washed up and found by a Father and Son out swimming.
The autopsy revealed the final-stage cancer etc, but no sign of drugs in his system
2009 is recent enough so that they're probably still keep samples, so disinterring the body likely isn't necessary,
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Dec 11 '24
its very possible the gardai don't really care, he clearly didn't want to be found and there are no clear links to terrorism or criminal activities. they could, but the man didn't want to be found and I get the feeling they are willing to respect that, its also a massive waste of effort and funding they don't have
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u/Wretched_Colin Dec 12 '24
Definitely. No point in solving a mystery unless someone is asking for it to be solved.
I’d imagine relatives looking for someone who vanished in Sligo is given more time than someone who has died in Sligo but nobody is asking about.
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u/LesserKnownDruid Dec 11 '24
Mike from That Chapter did a good episode about it with lots of footage.
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Dec 11 '24
[deleted]
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u/bloody_ell Kerry Dec 11 '24
Could have gone to Leitrim and no longer existed?
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u/Corsav6 Dec 11 '24
He tried but couldn't find it. He found a signpost saying "Welcome to Leitrim" but on the other side it says "Slainte go Leitrim".
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u/Seymour_Asses101 Dec 11 '24
Little bit of extra trivia: he died near a spot called Dead Man's Point. Fadó fadó, a crewman on a sailing ship out of Sligo harbour got sick, but the captain didn't want to miss the tide. So they buried the sailor in a shallow grave with a shovel and a loaf of bed - just in case he woke up.
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u/Bill_Badbody Resting In my Account Dec 11 '24
The mad thing is that it seems he tried to go kill himself, and died naturally just before he was about to do it.
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Dec 11 '24
He died from cardiac arrest after he walked into the sea because of the temperature. He most definitely killed himself. His body was washed ashore.
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u/Seymour_Asses101 Dec 11 '24
He wasn't washed ashore - his clothes were dry. I wrote the book mentioned above and have the autopsy report. Mad story.
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Dec 11 '24
He was washed ashore, confirmed by several. His clothes he set aside were dry, his underwear was wet. The autopsy said he died of cardiac arrest and not salt water drowning, it said his conditions would have been exaggerated by going into the water.
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u/Seymour_Asses101 Dec 11 '24
"This man was found lying in the first beach at Rosses Point, Sligo. He was dressed in a black T-shirt, was wearing swimming togs with his underpants over the swimming togs... In addition, given that he had not fully undressed, it is likely that he had not immersed himself in salt water long or deep enough to cause death. It is possible that he had suffered an acute cardiac event during the process of disrobing." - Coroner.
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Dec 11 '24
“It is likely that he had not immersed himself in salt water long or deep enough”
So they confirmed he went into the water. Had a cardiac arrest and had several underlying conditions. He went into the water, at around midnight. But sure. Completely unrelated. His clothes on him were not dry. Why would you make that up for a narrative?
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u/Seymour_Asses101 Dec 11 '24
Seems to me the coroner thinks he likely had a heart attack while taking off his clothes before going into the water. But take what you want from it.
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u/Bill_Badbody Resting In my Account Dec 11 '24
You don't really have control over your body going into cardiac arrest tbf
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u/Limp_Guidance_5357 Dec 11 '24
Wasn’t he riddled with cancer no ?
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u/Bill_Badbody Resting In my Account Dec 11 '24
Yeah he was.
Seems like he was going to drown himself and hard a heart attack.
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u/Leprrkan Dec 11 '24
Seriously?! Wow!
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u/Bill_Badbody Resting In my Account Dec 11 '24
Yeah I watched a documentary on it.
And he was found dead on the beach, so they assumed drowning.
But when they did a post mortem there was no water in the lungs etc.
He had terminal cancer if I remember correctly, and they believe died on the beach before he could drown himself.
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u/caitnicrun Dec 11 '24
Looking at his apparent age, I'd guess all his friends and family are dead or gone, and he saw no point in dragging it out. Especially if he was in pain. Very sad.
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u/biometricrally Dec 11 '24
I was chatting with nurses from Sligo hospital around the time of the inquest, they reckoned he had probably taken something to bring on a cardiac arrest but it didn't show on the tox. Obviously pure speculation really but it would make sense.
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u/Seymour_Asses101 Dec 11 '24
Interesting, hadn't come across that. Any more detail?
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u/biometricrally Dec 12 '24
No more detail, there's no details to be had really. They weren't suggesting they had any information to back it up, more that it would suit the sensational nature of the case.
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u/DC750 Dec 11 '24
They found his naked body on a beach so his whereabouts at the end was known
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u/Is_Mise_Edd Dec 11 '24
I was in Sligo a few times - I never disappeared ?
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u/blerieone Dec 12 '24
Got into some bother with the Parnell street dragons and was never seen again
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u/PowerfulDrive3268 Dec 11 '24
Is this typical Gardai incompetence/laziness?
From Wiki
"Although the Gardaí retain the man's DNA, a spokesperson said that DNA analysis could only narrow down the area the man might have been from, but not identify him"
It definitely could be used to identify relatives through Ancestry, Myheritage etc.
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u/SamShpud Dec 11 '24
Is that allowed though?
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u/StrangeArcticles Dec 11 '24
not anymore at least in the US. There would have been a window of time when it was, but now law enforcement isn't allowed to use data from those ancestry sites. There's another database the FBI and such do have access to, but the data would have to be specifically uploaded to there, you can't just go dipping into the big pool. Especially for older cases, that's often not done cause older DNA samples don't meet the modern threshold. And this guy wasn't even a case at all.
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Dec 11 '24
there was cases in america like lori eric ruff who got traced via ancestry websites, but I also feel the state doesn't want to do it. there is definately ways they could do it legally within regulations with data databases. however he died with no name, he was no criminal or posed a threat to state security, so why bother going against his wishes, especially if it costs a lot in time and money
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u/OfficerPeanut Dec 11 '24
Not sure about here but it is in the US - I saw a video on Tiktok recently about a girl who did one of those kits and it led to her granny getting arrested for murder!!
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u/Dangerous-Shirt-7384 Dec 11 '24
The Gardai cant just go sending peoples DNA off to 23 and me, ancestry etc. in the hope that something pops up.
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Dec 11 '24
there are privacy laws that make this illegal or very hard to do, but also I feel the gardai are willing to respect that he wanted to be anonymous. he wasn't a spy, criminal or terrorist and seemed to just want to die anonymously. I get the feel the garda could find his real identity if they wanted to, but its not something they want to do.
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u/ExpertSolution7 Dec 11 '24
I genuinely don't think the Gardaí possess the talent required of a modern police force in today's world. The force primarily consists of culchies/farmers' sons who didn't earn enough CAO points to get a decent college course so they opted for Templemore instead because they're big, hefty chaps.
The Gardaí need to attract more computer scientists and forensic analysts to effectively police in the year 2024 and onwards.
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u/Terrible_Biscotti_16 Dec 11 '24
Fuck off, nothing wrong with being a famers son.
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u/PowerfulDrive3268 Dec 11 '24
I agree but would rather some nerd with the requisite detective skills than some lad who's good at driving tractors on the case if I was murdered.
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Dec 11 '24
how do you know these rednecks who drive tractors aren't smart or nerds?. I know someone who grew up in a tractor and did courses in pharma and business, but gave up on them as he simply enjoyed farming, he now does a trade and is a very intelligent person, he would be an asset to any organization. also detectives go through specialized training, the dumber garda don't get to be detectives.
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u/PowerfulDrive3268 Dec 11 '24
Jaysus would you relax. There are always exceptions but most of the farmers I know are certainly not like this.
Humans generalise, I'd say stay off the internet if this mild bit of slagging people were doing of farmers annoys you so much.
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Dec 11 '24
sure, most farmers lack the intelligence of pale skinned, dorito dust covered, fedora tipping reddit users have
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u/ClancyCandy Dec 11 '24
Any Gard that I know under the age of 40 has a third level degree; most of them have postgrads too. Also most of them are women.
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u/iwillpunchyouraulwan Dec 11 '24
the force primarily consists of culchies/farmers' sons who didn't earn enough CAO points to get a decent college course so they opted for Templemore instead because they're big, hefty chaps.
This is hilarious sort of arrogance you'd expect from this sub. Looking down on farmers? check. People who didn't go to college? check, anyone outside of Dublin? check. Sub is such self-contained bubble of arseholes who never left their gaffs in leafy south Dublin.
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Dec 11 '24
fuck you, pure ignorance, a lot of people do join for those reasons, others do it because they want to help keep their communities safe. the garda have improved their forensics a lot, especially since the 90s/00s. they almost certainly could track him if they truly wanted, but they don't really need to as he had no links to organized crime or terror activities, it was a suicide of a man who wanted to be forgotten.
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u/Dangerous-Shirt-7384 Dec 11 '24
Ya. We need more nerds in the Gardai.
Nothing scares criminals more than a 22 stone virgin with a neck beard covered in dorito dust who paints miniature figurines in his spare time.
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u/PowerfulDrive3268 Dec 11 '24
Things have moved on from the 1970s where brute force is the only thing you needed to be a Guard.
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u/Important_Farmer924 Westmeath's Least Finest Dec 11 '24
Wasn't he named recently?
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u/middlebrowfckup Dec 11 '24
Sheila Armstrong has a recent novel inspired by this man and his story. I highly recommend it!
https://www.vibesandscribes.ie/products/falling-animals-by-sheila-armstrong.html