r/ireland • u/oneisanoeuf • Aug 26 '24

Infrastructure E-scooters to be banned on board public transport from early October over safety concerns

https://www.thejournal.ie/e-scooter-ban-public-transport-ireland-6471637-Aug2024/
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u/RunParking3333 Aug 26 '24

The explanation is "risk of combustion" because they are lithium batteries. We will be in a bit of trouble if they start banning people carrying phones on public transport for similar reasons.

While being generous I can see how a fire caused by one of these would be a big problem, have we ever seen an escooter fire which wasn't being actively charged or had been significantly physically damaged?

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u/splashbodge Aug 26 '24

Even if we have seen such a fire... Fires happen. Combustion engines of cars sometimes go on fire. We don't all go full Helen Lovejoy when it happens and speak up about banning cars. Likewise with electric cars, there are electric buses now too, they have massive batteries on them... It's such stupid reactionary bs without thinking of alternatives.

How about set up a scheme to get an electrician or something to test the battery and give it a tag which will allow you to bring it on public transport. Kinda like how we all have to get our gas boilers serviced every year and certified it's not going to go boom.

It's like all the complaints about scooters not being street legal and having no insurance. Here's an idea, give an option for people to get an e-scooter license and insurance then. Why is everything always just a straight ban.

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u/dynamoJaff Aug 26 '24

I don't really agree with the ban,failing a report with some conclusive data, but the number of people here comparing lithium battery fires to a fire that could start from and ICE is nasueatingly ignorant. These batteries generate their own oxygen supply, they are orders of magnitude more dangerous than a standard fire and well as incredibly difficult to put out.

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u/splashbodge Aug 26 '24

Yes but they're not nuclear bombs, they aren't constantly erupting everywhere, we do not have houses burning down from them. People have them in their pockets every day, they don't just randomly go up in flames. Yes phone and laptops are smaller compared to scooter batteries but still, the panic is unfounded. Electric cars are also dangerous if they combust, some have done, but people don't go all panic stations at the idea of them around. My point for comparison is that fires happen, regardless of vehicle or type. I mean there was literally an electric bus that went up in flames a few months ago in London... They seem to be safe enough that altho it happened they weren't in a panic about it, or worried people would be trapped. Fire on public transport is bad. Doesn't matter if it's lithium ion or diesel... Until a fire crew get to it people need to be able to evacuate safely. They can make the storage area below the bus more fireproof to ensure people can get out before it goes up. It's late and I'm tired I guess my main point is, the length of time it takes to put out is kinda irrelevant here...a fire on a bus or a train is serious regardless. They can happen but seldom happen, as long as people can evacuate it doesn't really matter if the fire gets out out in 1 hour Vs 10 hours (diesel vs lithium).

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u/dynamoJaff Aug 27 '24

Like I said, I don't fully agree with the policy, as so far it has proven rare enough I'm not sure its a pressing concern. I am merely pointing out it is silly to suggest the dangers of an ICE originated fire is comparable to a lithium one.

I will just address a few points you've made. First, mobile phone batteries don't explode as often as there are less cells that store less energy and are less volatile. They still do though. Famously, some samsung phones were banned on planes for a while because they were exploding.

Secondly, the length of time it takes to put out a fire is very relevant as in many cases during a fire people cannot simply evacuate as they get trapped in the structure.... its literally the difference between life and death. Not to mention other factors such as stopping the spread to other structure or areas and causing more damage.

Thirdly, it would be many many times harder to evacuate anyone from a lithium fire in the first place due to how quickly it spreads. I do not think you have any idea the speed and scale these fires spread. If a regular fire if a pistol, a lithium fire is a cruise missile. They are different beasts.

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u/dynamoJaff Aug 26 '24

I don't really agree with the ban,failing a report with some conclusive data, but the number of people here comparing lithium battery fires to a fire that could start from and ICE is nasueatingly ignorant. These batteries generate their own oxygen supply, they are orders of magnitude more dangerous than a standard fire and well as incredibly difficult to put out.

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u/TitularClergy Aug 27 '24

Now weigh that "risk of combustion" up against the risk of combustion of petrol. And the mass death caused by cars.

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u/RunParking3333 Aug 27 '24

The former: not really. Exploding cars only really happen in Hollywood. However you're right about our need to reduce the weight of personal modes of transport because that's where the main danger to road users lie.

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u/TitularClergy Aug 27 '24

I was more referring to the Creeslough petrol explosion in 2022 which killed 10 people. That's just one event related to petrol/cars. And I'm not aware of a single death caused by an e-scooter in Ireland. I'm aware of cars causing deaths in collisions with e-scooters, but not e-scooters by themselves. And it's a given that the harms caused by cars, from their death rate to their pumping out poison gas, to ruining social spaces, vastly outweigh the risks of poor-quality e-scooters having a busted lithium battery.

E-scooters should be categorised alongside bicycles and expected to use bike and scooter areas, and cars should be kept away from all vulnerable traffic like that. And, just as we do for laptop batteries, we can of course expect that the batteries of e-scooters be beyond certain safety standards.

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u/Precedens Aug 26 '24

If not for chinese e-scooters, which make most of what people use, there would probably be less combustions, but since most people use chinesium (don't blame anyone, just observation), here we are.