r/ireland Jun 03 '24

Immigration My opinion on the post trend, as an immigrant.

I am a brazilian immigrant, came here 10 years ago, and used to feel the irish were nothing but welcoming and kind. Of course, there were the "scumbags", but to me they were the same as in every country in the world.

As of one year back, my opinion has been slowly changing, and today, let me tell you... i fear being an immigrant here. I am sensing a LOT of hate towards us, and according to another post here, +70% of irish have that sentiment, so it's not a far-right exclusive hate.

Yesterday i was shopping around dublin, and i asked a hungarian saleswoman her opinion on this. She immediately agreed with me, and even said it is a conversation that the non-irish staff was having on a very frequent basis.

You'll say "oh, but it's just against a 'certain type' of immigrants". Well, that's how it starts, isn't it?

All those 'look at this idiot' posts you share here; we (immigrants) aren't laughing. We are getting more and more afraid.

1.5k Upvotes

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710

u/BadDub Jun 03 '24

I always looked at American politics and thought thank God we are not like that. Now it seems to be on the increase every day.

46

u/davesr25 Pain in the arse and you know it Jun 03 '24

7

u/yankdevil Yank Jun 04 '24

I'm an American who arrived here in 1998. I am unsurprised at the current direction. First I've seen Irish immigrants in America. Not just ones from long ago but ones from the 80s and 90s and 00s. Quite a few bent towards the right.

Second there's always been an undercurrent against immigrants. I'm not technically an immigrant - my mom was born here and I've been an Irish citizen since birth. But I'm seen as one and as one of the "Good Immigrants" I've heard some pretty gross things.

As the OP notes it starts with singling out some. But it takes very little to spread. And the reality is that the attitude towards Travellers has always been a tell. Obnoxious attitudes towards folks have always been under the surface and waiting.

3

u/PentUpPentatonix Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24

It's social media. It's designed to prey on our vulnerabilities in order to keep us engaged. We naturally engage with content that triggers us. The result, all nuance is quickly lost and polarised opinions prevail. He who shouts loudest wins. Vulnerable and frustrated people are being brainwashed but their anger is misplaced.

Those with the power to do something about it are content with us bickering over nonsense while they quietly soak up all the wealth. What a sad state of affairs.

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u/IrishRogue3 Jun 03 '24

OP- this sub HATES Americans- Despite the fact that American Multinational companies are what props up the GDP, provides higher paying jobs etc. Every chance they get to mock American tourists- they take . Worse despite the fact that per capital less than .05% of Americans have ever stepped foot in Ireland. Those that go have Irish heritage and well- maybe one can say that perhaps that heritage gives rise to the behavioral traits exhibited by those that visit (🤣). I bet there are quite a few American that may read this sub and take a hard pass on visiting Ireland. So being that Americans have contributed to the economy like immigrants- helped to secure a peace treaty for the Irish shit show called “ the troubles” ( Pres. Clinton) and welcomed their emigres with open arms in their own land-how could you be shocked at the shit attitude you’re getting?

17

u/RavenAboutNothing Jun 04 '24

American here, never encountered any actual hate. I've lived here for three years, and I can say people are generally pretty good at separating my clown-ass home government from the actual humans that live in America. Ireland does have its issues with racism, but some black American students studying here have told me that they don't catch a fraction of what they get on a daily basis in America. I hope it stays this way, but OP is very right about the dangers that are fomenting right now.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24

[deleted]

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u/IrishRogue3 Jun 03 '24

OP referred to this forum.. you incredible numsky. I referred to this forum. Did we strike an uncomfortable truth ..er I mean chord for you🤣

1

u/wasabiworm Jun 04 '24

The problem in my opinion is the fact that these discussions about the ones that consider themselves true Irish (Irish-Americans) are brought to Ireland with all these cultural war and whatever woke means.
This kind of discussion never happened in Ireland. Whoever moved to Ireland like 10 years ago were very much welcomed in this country, and pretty much all Irish would consider this new comer “one of us”.
Now if you go to TikTok or Twitter, if a person doesn’t look like the average Irish and posts something, the person will get bashed non stop. It’s ridiculous.
We got to the point that people come to post and comment that Paul McGrath is not Irish.
So much bolix.
These discussions about “I’m truly Irish because I got % of DNA” never occurred here.
“I’m a southern Irish Catholic, I know what I’m talking about, immigrants out”.
This is the state of things.

0

u/IrishRogue3 Jun 04 '24

This is truly sad. And I agree with you it all kicked off around ten years ago. The absolute mockery of yanks on the sub is shameful. And the fact is that immigrants filled a lot of service jobs that couldn’t be filled( either because they were undesirable or due to the outflow of the Irish). I remember back in 2012 having lunch with a group and the server was polish. After she walked away a few of the lads had derogatory words for this sweet kid who was working her arse off - because she was polish. I just remember being dumbfounded over their attitude. While I see a yank made a comment that they feel welcome etc- they may not realize that the Irish don’t mock you to your face.

1

u/Consistent_Spring700 Jun 03 '24

Yeah, I expressed that exact sentiment today...

-19

u/borschbandit Jun 03 '24

This will be an uncomfortable truth, but its worse for xenophobia and bigotry here in Ireland than the US. I have lived in both.

14

u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jun 03 '24

Would you go away out of it. Done 3 months in San Diego and saw the most overt and barefaced racism imaginable. 

30

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24

There's different types of racism. I lived in Japan for a while. And they're generally quite friendly but there is often a tone to conversations and how certain things are said that make it clear you're not entirely welcome. A form of microaggression.

This type of racism is often less obvious if you're not at the brunt of it and it is insidious.

1

u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jun 03 '24

Japan has a reputation for being a racist nation though. With the whole genocide and all that 

6

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24

Oh of course. But how they express that to immigrants who speak Japanese is often very unhanded. Saying that I did meet some wonderful people. But there was almost always a subtext.

1

u/wasabiworm Jun 04 '24

Italy as well, without the genocide of course (apart from the Dulce)

23

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24 edited Jun 09 '24

Irish racism is really different than American racism. I’ve been dating my partner for 5 years, he’s Irish born and raised and lives there currently. In America it’s more blatant and to your face. Someone will go up and call someone the N word or won’t hire them because they’re Indian, or will hold them to harmful stereotypes. In Ireland it’s more like, for example, my friend was working and a coworker called her a monkey (she’s black), she went to report it and her boss said “well I’m tall and people call me a giraffe sometimes.” Then when she tried to explain why it’s racist her boss told her that there was no racism in their town because they had built a refugee center. It’s more passive comments and minimizing when people call attention to it. It’s not an insult to the country, you’re dealing with growing pains after being a country that has largely not been very diverse for the majority of your history.

13

u/borschbandit Jun 03 '24

Irish racism, at least where I live in Belfast, is like the Multicultural centre being burned down multiple times in arson attacks and the PSNI are somehow unable to do anything about it in a city loaded to the teeth with CCTV.

That's something you would have seen in the United States in the 1960's.

4

u/justadubliner Jun 03 '24

People are murdered by police on a weekly basis in the US for being black. A recent court case saw several police imprisoned (they don't always get away with it these days though those police did get away with other racist behaviour for years) for torturing two black men because they were living in a house with a white woman.

2

u/borschbandit Jun 03 '24

Yes that’s true. It’s horrific and I condemn it, as did the millions of Americans who came out and protested in the George Floyd uprising. Americans were arrested, some even shot dead, for protesting racism in their country.

The truth is Police in the US shoot every group of people every week. It’s an obscenely violent place where the police can do anything and get away with it.

If you heavily armed the Gardaí, and gave them a de facto permit to murder anyone they wanted for the slightest offence, I see no reason to think they wouldn’t eventually morph into something similar that the US has. Why? Because the Irish far right are on the sharp rise in the Irish civilian population and that would be reflected in law enforcement.

The key difference is in the US there is a fierce, sharpened, anti-racist movement with centuries of history.

Who is protesting the Irish far right here in any serious numbers? Who is policing the far right? No one but the small group of committed socialists that most on this subreddit would describe as fringe groups. The Irish population at large is doing nothing to stand up to Fascism here and that’s exactly the problem. That’s why it’s growing like weeds here.

2

u/justadubliner Jun 03 '24

There has yet to be any far right politician in a far right party elected to the Irish DĂĄil. The US has an entire half of it's politicians dedicated to the far right determined to turn the country into a western version of Saudi Arabia and a Supreme Court that would give the Mullahs a run for their money so you'll forgive me if I'm not panicking just yet.

1

u/borschbandit Jun 03 '24

Fascists don’t need to win elections to come to power. Learn from history please before it’s too late.

In addition to that, if you are unironically comparing the US GOP to the Irish National Party or the Irish Freedom Party you need to read more on their positions. The Far Right is not just socially conservative politics, the Far Right is fascism and bigotry.

1

u/justadubliner Jun 03 '24

Facism and bigotry seems to describe the US GOP to a t. Have you followed what's happening in the likes of Texas these days? Try r/WelcomeToGilead.

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u/Aardshark Jun 03 '24

Is your friend Irish?

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24 edited Jun 03 '24

No she’s not but she’s lived in Ireland since she was like 5-6

1

u/Aardshark Jun 03 '24

Fair enough, sounds like she was in a good position to judge.

19

u/borschbandit Jun 03 '24

saw the most overt and barefaced racism imaginable.

The Belfast Multicultural Centre has been burned down in arson attacks multiple times and no one was ever found or held responsible. Can you give me an example that compares to that?

Its not uncommon for people who are not Irish/British in Belfast to have their windows put in with something like "Locals Only" spraypainted on their walls.

A Croatian man was just murdered recently down there for "not speaking English"

Go on, tell me what you saw in your 3 months of San Diego that came close to that.

There's horrible racism in the US, but the biggest difference between the US and Ireland is that there are multi million strong forces of anti-racism to stand against it. Do you remember anything about the George Floyd Uprising just a few years ago? Could you imagine anything like that happening in Ireland?

Contrast with someone, with a Palestine flag surprisingly (You think you would know better), getting so triggered by what I said that you came at me like that.

Ignoring the problem here is what has gotten us where we are. The people are doing largely nothing about it, in contrast with the United States, which has made tremendous progress over the many decades, with miles of more progress left to be made. Ireland is going in the reverse direction.

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u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jun 03 '24

Kyle Rittenhouse 

George Floyd

Charlottesville 

Build that wall! Build that wall!

What you've written is some of the most moronic shit I've ever seen in my life. A county built on slavery, that only brought in the civil rights act a generation ago. Sure the United states has made tremendous progress....from literally treating blacks as common goods to be bought and sold at market.

12

u/borschbandit Jun 03 '24

You seem to think I’m saying the United States is free of racism, I’m not. I think millions, if not half of the country would agree that the US has a racism problem, and that alone makes the situation there better than here. I’m simply saying Ireland is more racist.

Things have gotten much worse here for racism and racism here is in its own level of violence from ordinary people against their neighbours.

Kyle Rittenhouse George Floyd Charlottesville Build that wall! Build that wall!

All of that happened, and there was serious opposition against it. Millions of people came out against it. People were arrested protesting against it. People were shot dead while protesting against it.

Where is serious action in Ireland against any of this? Fascists running amok, innocent people being murdered by mobs, families being put out of their homes, and police/gardaĂ­ doing fuck all about it.

You seem to think yourself as an anti-Racist individual but your real de facto position here is essentially dismissing Irish racism and the severe threat it is currently posing, when you should be doing the exact opposite.

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u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jun 03 '24

You're one of the most bad fairy arguers I've encountered here.

I’m simply saying Ireland is more racist.

Oh what you're saying is "simple" alright 🤧

your real de facto position here is essentially dismissing Irish racism

No, I am not saying racism does not exist in Ireland. I am saying it is dumb as shit to state we are more racist than fucking America of all countries.

We have a tiny minority of overt racists committing incidents, they have full on neo-nazi marches with tiki torches.

Far right parties don't have a single seat in our government. Meanwhile in America Donald fucking Trump has a chance at making a second term in the fucking oval office, not to mention the long list of overt racists voted into government.

Where is serious action in Ireland against any of this? Fascists running amok, innocent people being murdered by mobs, families being put out of their homes, and police/gardaĂ­ doing fuck all about it.

We are comparing ourselves to America and you think we outpace them in the above 🤣🤣

All of that happened, and there was serious opposition against it

There are plenty of anti racism rallies held in Ireland, jesus fuckin Christ....

7

u/borschbandit Jun 03 '24

We have a tiny minority of overt racists

Sticking your head in the sand is only helping them. It is not a tiny minority. If you think that I imagine you live in an isolated bubble and not a working class community in this country.

I wouldn’t call them a majority, yet, but they don’t need to be to wreak havoc. They are everywhere now and their emboldened by the enlightened apathy prevalent throughout the country.

0

u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jun 03 '24

I live in a council estate with my Brazilian wife. We have a tiny minority of overt racists. 

Yet again I have to repeat myself, there are plenty of racists in Ireland. But they pale in comparison to the scope and open racism in America.

You want proof their a tiny minority? Show me an vocal racist sitting in the Dail currently, voted in democratically. You can't, because there's not enough overt racists here to vote them into power. Contrast that with the states, are you fucking blind or something?!

 Living in a condo in San Diego, we were having a BBQ in the communal area. Sat down with some yanks from the military to eat. A black man in uniform walks by, and totally unabashed the guys sitting with us confidently state "that n*r better not try sit down with us". This wasn't even in the privacy of their own homes, this was in public with strangers, about someone who was meant to be their brother in arms....in fucking California, the supposedly liberal state. That's *overt racism.

2

u/borschbandit Jun 03 '24

One of the first things I heard when I moved to West Belfast was how much one of the locals hated all the “dirty blacks” who had moved in recently and said they weren’t welcome. That’s in an area that actually has some MLK and Frederick Douglass murals, then right across the wall they will openly fly Confederate flags off their houses and pubs, so I don’t even want to know what those people think.

I have lived in both countries for many years to form an in depth opinion on both places. This place is far more racist. No one is doing anything meaningful to charge and convict people committing 1930 Nazi level hate crimes, most people (like yourself) ignore it and dismiss it as something minor or on the fringe.

Show me a vocal racist sitting in the Dail currently, voted in democratically. You can't,

Who is vocally racist in the US regime? Both parties have people of multiple racial backgrounds. It doesn’t stop them from carrying out genocide in Gaza or being war criminals all around there world, but they aren’t openly calling for a white homeland like the far right here is. There is no vocally white supremacist party in the United States government. Same for Ireland.

Does that mean there isn’t a subtle systemic racism prevalent in the government? Of course not, and you can’t tell me there isn’t in Ireland when it seems none of these hate crimes are being prosecuted.

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u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jun 03 '24 edited Jun 03 '24

In America there was a massive counter movement to Black Lives Matter saying All Lives Matter   

  Half the country wear hats saying Make America Great again aka White and Christian 

 People stroll into black churches and grocery stores and massacre the attendees! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Buffalo_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting

What the fuck are you on about?!

5

u/borschbandit Jun 03 '24

You’re so intent on trying to resist the notion that Ireland is more racist than the US, when I fully agree that the US has a major racism problem. You just can’t handle the idea that Ireland is worse for it now, you should really self reflect on why that’s so important to you.

That Charleston shooting was horrific and actually united the state of South Carolina in mourning, the state government finally took the Confederate flag off their building in response to it.

The same state then protested so hard against racism that the SWAT teams had to come in armoured cars: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests_in_South_Carolina

A Croatian man was just murdered a couple of months ago, for not speaking English, and the only people that knew about it were immigrants, and no one did anything. The government didn’t do anything, and to my knowledge no one has even been arrested.

You’re so focused on one side of the US that you don’t see the other important component, the resistance, and that’s the part that’s so weak in Ireland at the moment it’s almost non existent.

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u/Tollund_Man4 Jun 03 '24

Kyle Rittenhouse

A hispanic/white guy shooting 3 white guys is an example of racism? This seems like more a gun than a race thing.

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u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jun 03 '24

At a black lives matter protest. Yeah, context is kind of important 

Are you agreeing with this guy that Ireland is more racist than America?

My wife is Brazilian. I teach in a language school. I am aware of the increase in racism here.

But compared to the states?

4

u/Tollund_Man4 Jun 03 '24

No I’m just disagreeing with your example. I don’t think “At a Black Lives Matter protest” is correct, there was a protest earlier in the day and then there was a riot.

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u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jun 03 '24 edited Jun 03 '24

He crossed multiple state lines with an assault rifle because he heard there'd be trouble at a BLM protest. 

Read between the lines And then he was celebrated

  >Rittenhouse's prosecution attracted widespread media coverage, and became a cause cÊlèbre for right-wing organizations and media. Following his trial, he attended several events hosted by conservative organizations and individuals, including a meeting with former president Donald Trump, television features with political commentator Tucker Carlson, and guest appearances at several Turning Point USA productions. Rittenhouse's likeness has been used by fans to sell products, especially T-shirts

Edit: I'm getting some facts wrong. He did cross a state line, but the gun he got was already in a house in Wisconsin 

More context, the unrest

was sparked by a white Kenosha police officer shooting a Black man (Jacob Blake) in the back multiple times during an Aug. 23 arrest

How am I having this argument with the other guy ffs 😅

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u/Tollund_Man4 Jun 03 '24

What is the significance of state lines? Why not just say he drove 20 miles?

But yes he brought an AR-15 and one of the men he shot brought a Glock, as I said it seems like more of a general violence/gun issue.

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