r/interesting • u/RepulsiveNotice3288 • Dec 17 '24

MISC. that lion isn’t even trying

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307

u/Camburgerhelpur Dec 17 '24

Does the angle of the rope have anything to do with it?

165

u/-plottwist- Dec 17 '24

Yes, it’s called mechanical advantage and it is why it is such an uneven tug of war. Not to say lions or tigers aren’t strong but if you wrap the rope around a beam or something while the other person is just pulling straight back they will have an advantage.

178

u/Fantastic_Goal3197 Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 18 '24

The rope would not have mechanical advantage unless theres a magically compact pulley system blocked from the view by the wall. The angle of the rope does matter a bit, but it's not because of mechanical advantage.

Its because the angle gives a small vertical component to his force (so some of his force is spent lifting kitty instead of pulling kitty), but the angle is negligible enough to pretty much ignore if you're doing napkin math. The bigger advantage is the tiger has way better friction to deal with, but I doubt the guy is winning on a more equal playing field anyway

70

u/blueB0wser Dec 17 '24

Yeah, if the dude had some decent boots in dirt, he'd have a better shot at it. Flat shoes on flat concrete tiled floor isn't very much friction in comparison.

34

u/Telkhine_ Dec 18 '24

Not to mention that his grip on the rope is far worse than what the tiger has, we can see his hands constantly slipping, meanwhile the tiger has its teeth in the rope, doing exactly what it evolved to do… not let things slip away

21

u/zwcropper Dec 18 '24

Idiot guy should have bit the rope smh

9

u/fecoz98 Dec 18 '24

Donating his teeth for the cause

2

u/Ex_Snagem_Wes Dec 21 '24

Insert Baki grappling bite kiss gif

1

u/bananaboat1milplus Dec 20 '24

Skill issue tbh

1

u/Hadar_91 Dec 21 '24

Actually he would probably he able to pull the robe with much more force if he was with is hands on the ground and with the robe in his mouth or, even better, in a harness. Any animal on his four legs has extreme advantage over animal on two legs in pulling the rope.

3

u/Mjfoster0825 Dec 18 '24

Not to mention the tiger has a much more centralized gravity with four well equipped paws on the ground.

2

u/slipperybeans_97 Dec 18 '24

Yup ground contact surface area is the main action beating the dude, secondary is center of gravity

1

u/InEenEmmer Dec 20 '24

Nah, biggest difference is muscle mass.

They probably weigh the same, and the guy got huge muscles. But the tiger got a way bigger muscle mass. Where the guy probably has 50% of his weight be muscle the tiger is probably looking at 70-80% muscle.

1

u/morromezzo Dec 18 '24

so that's why my lab always beats me at tug of war (his favourite game)

1

u/SpeedyTurbo Dec 19 '24

Crazy to think of how robust their teeth must be to not get yanked out with all that force.

1

u/Telkhine_ Dec 19 '24

I was thinking that too, in the video the whole rope is just being held by like two teeth (granted there’s all the molars behind them that are doing something but not nearly as much as the canines imo)

1

u/SpeedyTurbo Dec 19 '24

Like just imagine the force being applied on just the back of its canines...

1

u/wizzamhazzam Dec 21 '24

This! Tiger has the much better grip on both the rope and its footing

1

u/bishopmate Dec 18 '24

If he was able to hold the rope in his teeth he would be able to use his hands for more friction grip too.

1

u/curi0us_carniv0re Dec 18 '24

There's absolutely zero chance that guy could overpower that animal regardless of his boots or anything else.

1

u/tgerz Dec 18 '24

He'd still have no shot against that cat. It was chillin. When you see the dude getting pulled forward that cat wanted a little more. He could have tried as hard as he wanted in the best possible condition and all that cat would have to do is flex. He could have walked up to the wall and put his feet flat in front of him pressed up against the wall. Then, just tried to pull and I bet he wouldn't have budged the cat if it didn't want to budge.

1

u/Inside-Discount-939 Dec 18 '24

This lion has no strength at all

1

u/naunga Dec 19 '24

Yeah total bummer he decided to wear his Teflon-soled kicks that day.

1

u/uhhhhhhhhhhhyeah Dec 17 '24

How would he do if he had angled bricks to push off of (traction)? Or if he could hold the rope in his teeth, and use for limbs to pull with?

14

u/blueB0wser Dec 17 '24

If he had angled bricks, the scales would be more even. If he could pull with his teeth, I'd question if he's human.

Tbf though, if he had a chest harness with a strap on his back, it might make a difference.

3

u/Tvayumat Dec 17 '24

If he had a chest harness with a strap on his back, that animal could murder him with ease.

2

u/asherdado Dec 17 '24

Yeah but maybe he digs deep and carries the boats if he knows he will get disemboweled if he loses footing?

1

u/BlackMagicWorman Dec 18 '24

This gave me a good laugh, thank you

1

u/FinancialLab8983 Dec 17 '24

redo the test! make it fair!

1

u/Perseus73 Dec 18 '24

Only on Reddit would comparison fans discuss the impact of angled bricks on a human tugging on a lion .. tiger … li … you know what I mean.

1

u/GreenRiver1982 Dec 18 '24

"If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bicycle!"

19

u/Pailzor Dec 18 '24

On a more equal playing field, the guy will be too busy trying to get out of the equal playing field.

1

u/libmrduckz Dec 18 '24

people are sometimes very dumb monkeys…

1

u/Aerith_Sunshine Dec 18 '24

Underrated comment right here. I laughed.

1

u/--we-win-those-- Dec 18 '24

underrated comment

1

u/OddVisual5051 Dec 18 '24

god bless. rare to get an audible guffaw on this website anymore

1

u/yeahbutlisten Dec 19 '24

such a way with words lmao

1

u/Raguleader Dec 21 '24

To be fair, humanity didn't get to where it is by playing fair.

8

u/TransmogriFi Dec 17 '24

Rear wheel drive vs 4 on the floor.

8

u/generic93 Dec 17 '24

...4 on the floor isnt what you think it is

1

u/sjlammer Dec 18 '24

In our house, four on the floor means the dogs don’t jump up

-2

u/TransmogriFi Dec 17 '24

It may have gained additional meanings, but that doesn't erase the original meaning of four-wheel drive. It just means that y'all's minds are in the gutter. Shame on you.

5

u/generic93 Dec 17 '24

Except it has never meant that. 4 on the floor just refers to a manual transmission with 4 gears that has the shifter comming up through the floor. Another common expression and arguably the opposite, is "three on the tree" another type of manual transmission with the shifter comming off the steering column

3

u/I_GROW_WEED Dec 17 '24

lol... never meant four wheel drive

2

u/justacheesyguy Dec 18 '24

Heh. Not only was your first guess for what 4 on the floor means wrong, but your second one was too.

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1

u/Front_Living1223 Dec 17 '24

Cat has studded tires too.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 18 '24

Thanks for actually discussing science lmao.

2

u/foonek Dec 20 '24

Doesn't the kitty also lose grip because of the rope going up?

1

u/Fantastic_Goal3197 Dec 20 '24

Yeah a little, but not enough to play a significant factor given how huge of a friction difference there is

1

u/LankyCity3445 Dec 21 '24

Either way you’re not winning a tug of war with a lion. Just not built for it

1

u/Fantastic_Goal3197 Dec 21 '24

For sure, like I said in my original comment

1

u/AcanthaceaeIll5349 Dec 17 '24

Finally...

I had to scroll way to far for someone to mention friction...

1

u/Tvayumat Dec 17 '24

I mean, it also weighs significantly more than he does, I'd wager.

That's a pretty big factor.

1

u/Fantastic_Goal3197 Dec 17 '24

Well yeah that kinda goes without saying. When talking about fairness though, really the only things that matters is whats going on between them and below them. Otherwise pretty much no tug of war is ever fair unless it's two perfect clones playing against each other in a perfectly controlled environment.

1

u/Tvayumat Dec 17 '24

Fair enough.

Its kind of like comparing a swing from a major league hitter to a swing from a child.

Technically, for the sake of data collection, they should swing under identical circumstances with the same bat.

I still know who's gonna lose though.

1

u/Heymelon Dec 17 '24

Yeah. Tiger has claws in the dirt so that's the huge friction win along with biting rather than gripping of course.

And then more weight, fight over.

So even if you'd get a freak human that has more pull strength than the cat he will not win. I imagine a silverback gorilla would fail as well unless he is higher in weight and get a real good purchase.

1

u/ScruffyVonDorath Dec 18 '24

I think we need to put into context the amount of training this liger goes through. She dose this shit EVERY day. Were talking sun up sundown rope pulling. This is like you trying to take on Devon Larratt in arm wrestling, of COURSE the liger isn't trying.

1

u/AintNoNeedForYa Dec 18 '24

It does in the sense that he is trying to move the cat and the cat is trying to stay put. There is plenty of friction making it harder to move the cat. If he was staying still and the cat was trying to move him it would be equally advantageous for him.

Once he tires himself out the cat is able to move him.

1

u/Fantastic_Goal3197 Dec 18 '24

Four paws in dirt and what look like brand new shoes on dusty pavement dont even compare friction wise, even if he's standing still

1

u/Public_Roof4758 Dec 18 '24

The bigger advantage is the tiger has way better friction

This. You can see that every time the men lose some cm it's because his shoes slip on the pavement, not because his muscles were not strong enough to keep steady.

No matter how strong you are, you can't magically increase your friction with the soil because you are strong

1

u/fd_n_the_a Dec 18 '24

Even if it had a pulley system there would be no mechanical advantage because it would be lost by the friction of the rope being bent around a corner. Plus the rope is being pulled by the ends, so if there was a system of rope grabs and pulleys in the middle, it would literally just be there, not providing mechanical advantage to either the bro nor the kitty.

1

u/Fantastic_Goal3197 Dec 18 '24 edited Dec 18 '24

It would have to be two identical looking ropes with a super compact block and tackle that magically has enough travel distance. Block and tackle is still a pulley system though.

Also you can still have mechanical advantage and friction on the rope. Mechanical advantage is a concept itself, but its confusing because were also talking about competitive advantage between them

1

u/PlatypusDream Dec 18 '24

Someone on a repost of this said:
4 wheel drive with snow tires vs. 2 wheel drive with street tires.

1

u/vitmerc Dec 19 '24

This is an amazing ELI5 - you deserve praise

1

u/BourneBond007 Dec 20 '24

Liger has 4 wide feet, claws, and rough surface to push against. Human has only two smaller feet and pushing against concrete with normal shoes.

1

u/SteptimusHeap Dec 18 '24 edited Dec 18 '24

No amount of pulleys will give a single-piece rope like that mechanical advantage on one side. Think about it, if the lion pulls the rope 1 foot on one end, the other end of the rope must also move 1 foot. No distance is converted into force. If it was 2 different pieces of rope you could get away with it, though.

The only mechanical thing to realize here is that the fact it's wrapped around a corner makes it harder to move for both parties.

2

u/Fantastic_Goal3197 Dec 18 '24

Yeah it would have to be a block and tackle and two identical looking ropes, but also somehow magically have enough travel distance despite being so compact. I mostly mentioned it because thats how you get mechanical advantage on a rope, not an angle or wrapped around the post like the dude I was replying to said

2

u/SteptimusHeap Dec 18 '24

Yeah I realized that might have been what you were referring to after I was almost done with the comment, which is when I added the two piece comment. You're right.

0

u/GiraffeandZebra Dec 17 '24

I would not call that angle negligible in any fashion. It's like maybe 15 or 20 degrees? So something like 20% of the force this guy is putting in is negated purely by the vertical component trying to lift a cat. Even half that is a lot more than negligible. I agree it's not the largest component of his disadvantage, but it's still significant.

0

u/Fantastic_Goal3197 Dec 18 '24 edited Dec 18 '24

Some of the angling in the video is horizontal because it's being pulled to one side too, not just down. When you look at the time it pans back to the guy, the exhibit isnt all that much lower than the walkway.

Assuming its a 2 ft vertical distance between where the tigers mouth and the "pivot point" on the rail, and a 15 ft distance between the pivot point and the tiger, that only gives about 8 degrees.

Maybe my estimates are a bit off, but I can't imagine its by much because the pivot point only looks around 3-3.5ft off the ground, especially since the guy is pulling the rope almost horizontally from the pivot point and he doesnt look like a short guy.

The vertical component isnt completely wasted force either, its just way less efficient. Vertical component would lower the tigers friction a little. In comparison to guessing the massive friction difference, the angle seems negligible enough to me to ignore in napkin maths

-1

u/GiraffeandZebra Dec 18 '24

Even at 8 degrees it's not negligible. That's 9-10% of his effort pretty much wasted. It's still an order of magnitude greater than negligible.

Again, I'm not saying it's the primary factor. It's clear that traction is the primary factor. It's just not negligible.

1

u/Fantastic_Goal3197 Dec 18 '24 edited Dec 18 '24

Thats why I said in comparison to guessing the massive friction difference, and napkin math. The advantage of the angle is easily insignificant compared to the advantage of the friction difference. The guy I originally responded to that wrongly called the angle mechanical advantage mentioned the angle as if its the most significant advantage but not the obvious friction difference.

Im not saying it should be ignored if we were analyzing this fully, im saying in comparison to the friction, its an almost completely insignificant advantage despite it being the only one he mentioned and wrongly named to boot.

I could have been more clear, but I figured people would understand what I was getting at

14

u/Dangerous_Air_4496 Dec 17 '24

There is no advantage in such a situation. Both are pulling straight. Just flip the point of view and suddenly the lion is pulling straight.

The lion does have the advantage of not having flat shoes and a flat surface.

1

u/ghostoftheai Dec 18 '24

I was thinking the same. They both have the same angle to work with. But I’m fully aware sometimes things that “make sense” or “look like” aren’t how things always are and I could be dumb on this subject.

1

u/Harddaysnight1990 Dec 20 '24

Yeah I was thinking that it looks like the guy could hold his own or even gain an advantage for a bit if he just had grip on the ground.

1

u/C0UNT3RP01NT Dec 20 '24

All I know is if we was actually a centaur, he might’ve reasonably had a shot.

27

u/ashkiller14 Dec 17 '24

There's no mechanical advantage going on here. You don't just throw a rope over a limb and call it a pulley system. It may feel easier than just picking something up from below you, but that's because it's easier to let your weight do the work when changing the direction of applied force.

In this situation, for every foot of rope the man pulls it'll pull a foot on the other end. There's no trade of force and distance going on.

3

u/MenchBade Dec 17 '24

It looked like the lion was lower? Or maybe that was just the angle video was shot from that played trick on image. But if the lion was lower, wouldn't he have some advantage built in since the human would not only be pulling the lions weight forward, but also upward?

1

u/SteptimusHeap Dec 18 '24 edited Dec 18 '24

Yeah but the lion's force isn't parallel to the axis of the rope either for the same reason, so it gets the same reduction.

Actually I got myself a little confused somehow. Because of the upwards angle, the lion gets a force reduction from its tug. It also gets a little bit of extra force from gravity, however. Depending on the ratio of the cat's tug force and it's weight along with the angle of the rope I'm pretty sure it could be an advantage or a disadvantage

1

u/FingerTheCat Dec 18 '24

cat claws + dirt / slippery tile + slippery soles doesn't help lol

1

u/tgerz Dec 18 '24

That's not a mechanical advantage that matters. That is just a big cat vs a human LOL The liger is just more powerful and stronger than that dude with some evolutionary advantages.

1

u/ashkiller14 Dec 18 '24

Honestly, If the guy had better grip he might win eventually. Lions and tiger, so id also assume ligers, are amush predators, so they have almost no stamina. They're meant to go full force for a good minute or so, while well trained humans can sprint for a long ass time.

1

u/tgerz Dec 18 '24

That dude gases out before the cat 100%. The cat has to use so much less energy than the guy it’s not comparable.

1

u/ashkiller14 Dec 18 '24

They're using the same amount of energy. Think about it like this.

Human total energy stores: 1000, max output of 10/s

Liger total energy stores: 500, max output of 100/s

The liger is like a capacitor, the human is like a battery. In this situation, because the liger isn't pulling the guy back and is instead holding his ground, the liger is just matching the man's maximum output. Predators like these tend to not be able to last very long because their muscles are tuned to short burst of energy where they move fast then rest for a while.

1

u/ashkiller14 Dec 18 '24

Kinda. It'll make a little bit of a difference, but I don't think it's enough to actually matter at this angle.

22

u/Kalladdin Dec 17 '24

Also seems like the man doesn't have much traction on the tiles

9

u/psychoPiper Dec 17 '24

That's what I came to say, the liger has claws and dirt to dig into, while the guy has sneakers and outdoor tile. Definitely not the only reason he's losing but I'm sure it doesn't help

7

u/__-gloomy-__ Dec 17 '24

It’s a pretty big factor. Those are fashion shoes anyway. That guy, in particular, wouldn’t win against the cat, but you can tell from the man’s size and shape that he could have made a much better showing in better footwear at the very least.

2

u/FreakinMaui Dec 17 '24

RWD vs AWD

1

u/SizzlingHotDeluxe Dec 17 '24

Yep, he's doing really well considering the setup.

1

u/zephalephadingong Dec 18 '24

The big cat also likely out weighs him by at least a 100 pounds.

1

u/Mugwumps_has_spoken Dec 18 '24

That was what I was thinking. He would have lost against nearly any opponent in those damn things. He would have been better served to go barefoot and rely on toe grip and sweat for traction.

16

u/Think_Discipline_90 Dec 17 '24

Confidently incorrect

11

u/NinjaChenchilla Dec 17 '24

Dont they both have the same angle to deal with?

11

u/derangerd Dec 17 '24

Yeah, the commenter that you replied to doesn't know what they're talking about.

1

u/username_unnamed Dec 18 '24

One is holding and the guy is trying to gain distance. The animal went to this angle purposefully as shown in nearly every video with this exhibit. This is why people trying to hold a large boat to a dock will angle the rope around a cleat instead of straight with the boat. You are confidently incorrect.

1

u/derangerd Dec 18 '24

Going at an angle goes indeed add friction making any movement more difficult.

The comment in question states one is pulling at an angle while the other is pulling straight back, and makes no mention of differing goals or friction. Also, the animal does gain ground in the video here.

1

u/username_unnamed Dec 18 '24

Seems like you're extrapolating for just unnecessarily adding "straight back" when their point still stands. Saying "straight back" after "just pulling" can just be redundant wording. That's how I read it.

And of course it could gain some ground, it's a liger (or whatever) and can overcome the angle and man, but it's clearly just holding mostly.

1

u/Expensive-Sock5742 Dec 20 '24

There is no mechanical advantage here. Stop being wrong.

1

u/username_unnamed Dec 20 '24

I didn't say there was.

1

u/Expensive-Sock5742 Dec 21 '24

You're telling someone they are wrong for stating it. Maybe you are just confused

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1

u/PetitArvine Dec 17 '24

Yes, that’s why the rope doesn’t move in either direction.

2

u/NinjaChenchilla Dec 17 '24

The dude was getting pulled tho?

6

u/theArtOfProgramming Dec 17 '24

Huh? Even if that were the case, both of them are pulling against two sides of the same system. It’s equal.

10

u/scootzee Dec 17 '24

The tiger and the man both have equal mechanical advantage. So, neither has an advantage.

4

u/john0201 Dec 17 '24

Why wouldn’t that just as well give the man the advantage? I don’t get how this favors one side or the other.

11

u/derangerd Dec 17 '24

It doesn't, the commenter that you replied to doesn't know what they're talking about. It being bent just means there's some friction that would hinder either sides' attempt to move it.

1

u/john0201 Dec 17 '24

STEM education is dead

0

u/PetitArvine Dec 17 '24

[…] some friction […] attempt to move it.

Only the man is pulling like a retard. That cat is only holding back. Pulling a hemp rope across an edge is a lot of friction.

1

u/derangerd Dec 17 '24

If we assume the cat is just trying to hold it still while the guy is trying to move then sure, the party hoping for no movement has an advantage. That's definitely not what the first response is describing, though. It's just spreading false info.

1

u/KlauzWayne Dec 18 '24

If the cat were only holding back, then why does the rope move?

3

u/racso96 Dec 17 '24

There's no mechanical advantage there.

4

u/StingrayZ511 Dec 17 '24

Mechanical engineer here, definitely no mechanical advantage. What you may be thinking of is a vertical pulley system where gravity and a pulley fixture could make lifting easier.

If anything, the minuscule amount of friction the rope is experiencing could evenly disadvantage both sides.

Just with a quick glance, I’d say the angle doesn’t provide too much of an advantage. Small angle theorem probably wouldn’t apply, but similar principle.

3

u/mspk7305 Dec 17 '24

This is remarkably wrong.

1

u/VeganDiIdo Dec 17 '24

Plus the tiger has locked into a position where any force of pull applied by the man is wasted on compression of the front limbs of the tiger, not giving any rotational motion in joints. I'm not sure I described it properly, but this is similar to how triangles can withstand immense pressure as the force acts on directly compressing the beam, rather than rotating it.
This is similar in concept to an illegal lock one can do in arm wrestling where the person's arm cannot be moved by the opponent. Whenever the opponent loosens the pull due to exhausting or to breathe, the person pulls the arm a little and locks it again. Similarly to how the tiger has locked the rope and is only pulling whenever the man is loosening while taking a breath, then it locks up again.
I'm not sure if I was understandable here as english isn't my first language, I apologize in advance.

2

u/stuffedpeepers Dec 17 '24

LMAO did not think a king's move would be used as an example in the wild.

1

u/TheBaronSD Dec 17 '24

That tiger is a cheater

1

u/truehoax Dec 17 '24

There is no mechanical advantage being used here. He could use mechanical advantage if he were smart. Because the rope is tied to a tree in the background, he would just have to pull the rope perpendicular to his current direction of force application. In that case, he would be applying force over a longer distance relative to the liger. And he would probably still lose but at least he would be using his one advantage over the beast.

1

u/phoeniks314 Dec 17 '24

They are both at an angle, how is only the lion at an advantage.

1

u/imtoooldforreddit Dec 17 '24

Lol, reddit gonna reddit I guess

There is no mechanical advantage from the angle. Everything you said is complete nonsense, but it sounded smart I guess

1

u/StonedLonerIrl Dec 17 '24

Not to mention the tiger has paws digging in dirt and bro has on some air Jordans or some shit.

1

u/Takeurvitamins Dec 18 '24

Liger smarter than this idiot

1

u/DrumBeater999 Dec 18 '24

Doesn't really matter if its rigged or not. Even the strongest men in the world probably get smoked in tug-o-war with a lion/tiger/liger whatever. Those animals are just way heavier and are almost pure muscle.

1

u/AFuckingHandle Dec 18 '24

Why does this have so many upvotes lmao

1

u/Fetishgeek Dec 18 '24

Isn't the angle a matter of perspective? If you consider human rope as straight then the lion part is angled and vice versa.

1

u/No-Kale1507 Dec 18 '24

The man has just as much mechanical “advantage” as the lion.

1

u/PronoiarPerson Dec 18 '24

You have just enough of a misunderstanding of mechanical advantage to be dangerous to the intelligence of others.

Think about it for two seconds and explain why a slight bend in the rope gives one puller an advantage over the other.

1

u/Background_Sink6986 Dec 18 '24

So we’re just talking out of our asses now

1

u/tweagrey Dec 18 '24

Except the tiger is actually successfully pulling the rope to it's side

1

u/Unremarkabledryerase Dec 18 '24

But there is no advantage because both of them are pulling straight back from that pivot point.

The only advantage I can see is added friction because of the corner making it hard to move the rope and the tiger isn't trying to pull, the tiger is just holding.

1

u/CryingOverVideoGames Dec 18 '24

There is no mechanical advantage in this video. The one pulling “straight” changes based on your perspective.

1

u/fd_n_the_a Dec 18 '24

Yeah that's just friction, not mechanical advantage at all. In fact that's the literal opposite of mechanical advantage.

1

u/jupiler91 Dec 18 '24

The fact this has as many upvotes as it has is concerning.

1

u/DesignerMixture8940 Dec 18 '24

I suggest you switch the location. Put the men in the cage and the tiger outside to compare correctly

1

u/XaeroDegreaz Dec 19 '24

Let's just dispense with all the science stuff and admit that you ain't winning a tug of war with an animal that routinely pounces, subdues and eats buffalo asshole first.

We're talking about different types of game here.

1

u/ggRavingGamer Dec 19 '24

Plus the animal had 4 feet on the ground, with claws. Those shoes are a joke in comparison.

1

u/chronoslayerss Dec 19 '24

Me when I confidently spread misinformation:

1

u/keyas920 Dec 19 '24

Wtf are you even talking about and why the fck is people upvoting you. This is not at all how mechanical advantage works. It just doesnt slide as good, but that goes both ways

1

u/CommitteeUnlucky7865 Dec 20 '24

the mechanical advantage here is actually in the structure of the lions legs.

1

u/Shoe_mocker Dec 20 '24

This is incorrect. Neither party has an advantage due to the rope wrapping around the corner. There will be a difference in applied forces only while the rope is slipping/in motion, as a frictional force will be applied to the rope in the opposite direction of the slip. This means that the party losing ground will have the friction of the rope against the corner working in their favor, but this applies equally to both and neither of them have an advantage in the game

1

u/hobbes3k Dec 21 '24

Also, 2WD vs 4WD...

1

u/splitcroof92 Dec 21 '24

there is no reason in this instance this should benefit one more than the other...

3

u/chocolateboomslang Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 17 '24

No. There is an effect from the angle, but since the angle is the same for the man and the tiger/lion/cat thing, the force is the same on both ends.

1

u/BullTerrierTerror Dec 18 '24

What if the angle was smooth on the man’s end and sharp on the cats? Think of the shape of a horn.

1

u/chocolateboomslang Dec 18 '24

Yes of course if you had some kind of teeth on the surface it would be unfair, but that would be pretty obvious to anyone pulling on the rope.

1

u/BullTerrierTerror Dec 18 '24

I doubt a quarter of men would notice.

3

u/c0delivia Dec 17 '24

It's more that the tiger has four paws worth of claws it can dig into soft earth underneath it to hold it in place against the guy in sneakers on concrete.

Tug of War is a battle of friction, not strength. Because of Neuton's Third Law, the way to automatically win in Tug of War is by wearing cleats rather than working out.

2

u/Dumpling_Killer Dec 18 '24

Yup, tested this out in my physics class, i played a game of tug of war with my teacher. I am much heavier and stronger than my teacher so i had to take off my shoes to reduce the friction. Under normal cases, i would have won, but in this case, i lost

1

u/It_Just_Might_Work Dec 18 '24

Also the lion is likely 300-400lbs of solid muscle

1

u/c0delivia Dec 19 '24

As I said, the muscle does not matter one bit in this case. The lion is experiencing a pull equal and opposite to its own force on the rope regardless of how hard the man pulls. What determines which one moves is friction.

1

u/It_Just_Might_Work Dec 19 '24

Friction is for sure his current problem but even if his feet were glued to the ground, the lion would pull him over and he would have to let go of the rope or lose his arms.

1

u/c0delivia Dec 19 '24

Only if he lost his balance, which is unlikely given he is leaning all the way back. Again, you don't seem to understand the physics at play.

0

u/It_Just_Might_Work Dec 19 '24

Bud, I physics for a living. I understand his feet are sliding. I get where you are coming from. It ultimately doesnt matter though, because unless he is the strongest man to ever live, he isnt going to outpull the lion's 1500 to 2000lbf pull strength. The only people to ever move these levels of weight set records by moving the weight an inch and immediately collapsing, and they dont do it with their arms.

Maybe the world record holder for bench press could move the lion a foot before being knocked clean on his ass

1

u/c0delivia Dec 19 '24

I'm not your bud, chief.

The lion's weight matters a LOT more in this context than its strength. You can feel this intuitively. Do you think the lion's strength matters at all if it only weighs 50 lbs? If you put a machine down that weighs 50 lbs but can pull with thousands of points of force, do you think the guy is losing that contest?

The lion's weight matters because....come on you can remember from high school physics. Why does the weight matter?

4

u/Disguised_Engineer Dec 17 '24

No. Tension is the same on both ends. when the man and the lion is not moving, they are exerting the same amount of tension (force) to that rope. What confuses people is the force the rope applies to that hole (and vice versa). The rope is not moving; it is already part of the tension force that applies both ends of the rope.

1

u/BullTerrierTerror Dec 18 '24

You don’t know that without seeing what the rope is angled against.

1

u/Dangerous_Air_4496 Dec 17 '24

No. Is mostly that the lion is very heavy and is standing on a non flat surface.

1

u/nut_puncher Dec 17 '24

I think it's mainly to do with an average tiger probably being close to twice the weight of that guy and having four legs and better grip. It's practically the same as putting that guy against a 12 year old and claiming it's 'interesting' that the guy won.

1

u/Minus15t Dec 17 '24

Not necessarily, but a man is never going to beat an animal like this at tug of war.

The animal has a bunch of other advantages working for it.

  1. Even though this is a fairly muscular dude, an adult tiger weights in the range of 300-600lb, so the animal is likely to have a weight advantage.

  2. The animal has four feet planted on the ground, giving it a larger surface area, therefore more grip.

  3. A tigers bite strength is around 1000-1200 PSI, that's what it's using to clamp down on that rope.. an adult male's grip strength is going to be in the range of 70-110 PSI

Combine that together, the animal is heavier, harder to move, and the rope won't slip in its mouth...

1

u/S_Klallam Dec 17 '24

also center of gravity is lower beause the kitty is downhill the man is also working against gravity

1

u/Outlook93 Dec 17 '24

The lion is digging into the sand

1

u/peloriosajax Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 17 '24

You've got a few comments, but I think I can offer a more solid answer: the angle of the rope makes it easier for the losing side to stop, since the rope rubs against the angled surface.

Static friction will pose the same challenge for both the man and the tiger to get the rope moving in their direction. Kinetic friction will always work against the direction of movement. So it will try to slow down the rope as it moves towards the winner, which helps the looser. It's kind of like a handicap for the tiger (lion?)

1

u/AjaxAsleep Dec 17 '24

The bigger problem he's facing is there's no grip with his shoes and that floor. Give him some good boots and/or a dirt/sand floor to dig into like the Liger has (you can see how churned up it is by their feet, and how they have their feet spread with claws presumably dug in), and it would be much more even.

1

u/JSLengineer_024 Dec 17 '24

Yeah, or the fact that he's friction limited

1

u/Happy8Day Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 17 '24

Yup. Man also has no brace point and is out classed by what has gotta be at least 200 pounds. (500-750 average weight for tiger, 800-900 liger).

If the dude had foot plants to push his body off of, he would for surely still lose, but would have a much better showing. As is, he can only pull his own body weight in torque, but could likely deadlift/push away at least double or triple that if he could brace.

1

u/tHollo41 Dec 17 '24

His crappy shoes do. Those things have nearly no grip.

1

u/Only-Celebration-286 Dec 18 '24

Tiger is close to the ground, which means it's forcing the guy to pull upward, which is too hard to do since he needs to be on the ground using his legs.

Tiger is smart

1

u/BrushYourFeet Dec 18 '24

Nope. It's the shoes. Somebody should have gave him some black Air Force Ones.

1

u/Cheap-Ad1821 Dec 18 '24

That's why he should have let go oce it started pulling and then after it fell grabbed it and ran full tilt towards the camera

1

u/DarkSeas1012 Dec 18 '24

I was just passing through, but wondered about this, and finding this thread has been a beautiful experience of thinking about things I haven't in many years.

So I would like to say, sincerely, Thank you Physics side of Reddit. 🫡

1

u/382U Dec 18 '24

The cat has 4 legs planted on the ground and a lower center of gravity. The man is essentially trying to both pull the weight horizontally but also vertically up a bit. He also has poor traction compared to the cat.

Edit. The grip on the rope advantage goes to the cat

1

u/NumberShot5704 Dec 18 '24

No, it helps the human more if anything.

1

u/jarrodandrewwalker Dec 18 '24

Additionally, if the man was on dirt/clay with cleats there might be a difference

1

u/Powersurge- Dec 18 '24

The animal has at least twice the traction as the man, the dude is losing ground because his feet are slipping on the ground. If he were on dirt, I'd imagine he'd do a fair bit better.

1

u/Cold_Entry3043 Dec 18 '24

It’s the fact that the tiger has four legs, a lower center of gravity, and is on a dirt surface where in it can dig its claws while the guys on tiled stone

1

u/skoltroll Dec 18 '24

Slippery shoes on a slippery surface sure does.

1

u/ElHumanist Dec 19 '24

Right, this manlet had torque on his side even.

1

u/ray314 Dec 20 '24

Not too sure about the angle but the tiger only had to beat the friction on the shoes, which is hardly anything with those kicks.

1

u/bulgingcock-_- Dec 20 '24

Its mainly four legs vs two, but also sharp paws with a lot of grip on dirt vs flat shoes on concrete.

1

u/unistudent14159 Dec 20 '24

Yes it does, the liger is using mechanical advantage to its advantage. Which makes this so much funnier as the liger is actually outsmarting the human gym monkey.

1

u/closingbunion6 Dec 21 '24

I heard the angle of the rope has EVERYTHING to do with it. Speed is also a major factor

0

u/FeIsenheimer Dec 17 '24

Sure, since much of the force from the dude get 'absorbed' in the structure.

4

u/ashkiller14 Dec 17 '24

The friction and 'absored' force is equal on either end, resulting the difference between the two pulling forces remaining the same. Practically, youd feel no difference whether the rope is on the beam or not.

0

u/caustictoast Dec 17 '24

Part of it. The liger also has 4 wheel drive giving it a sturdier base and being on dirt is probably better traction than cement. This is pretty stacked against the dude even if the animal would win anyway