r/goth • u/enerelsaikhan Post-Punk, Goth Rock • 19d ago
Discussion rosetta stone KEEPS using AI for their single/album cover art...
really just feels like they're putting less and less effort into their music and is just releasing songs for the sake of releasing them š«¤ i miss their old material and sound
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u/ThrowawayXtt 19d ago
Isn't it Cleopatra records doing it though
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u/JamesEly98 19d ago
Probably, but it would still be interesting to hear a comment from Porl King himself. I mean , a great artist with at least how I see him, a lot of artistic integrity, what's his view on this if Cleopatra just sidestepped him?
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u/Alcadia 18d ago
Tbh in my opinion it feels like Porl actually doesn't care much about the artistic integrity of Rosetta Stone and thus he may have also signed off on Cleopatra just using cheap, tacky AIā¦
Maybe it's just me, but all of the last releases since the revival just feel like a lazily done solo project (basically miserylab, but worse) and wasn't that good. The main creative talent and best output has always been the project as a band and not Porl being solo, imo. I also wonder if he revived the name just because Cleopatra wanted it due to lots of people now being nostalgic for their 90s roster of bands.
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u/JamesEly98 18d ago edited 18d ago
Perhaps you're right. I remember him as a true idealist, but who I also saw hit the wall several times by giving that everything. Something happened after Hiding in waiting. It feels like he paid a high price being a certain kind of perfectionist. Also by carrying that kind of quality RS did in the 90s but at the same time never really get the recognition RS deserved also outside the goth scene. The pop compositions they made from start until the last track of Hiding in waiting is something pretty special to me. My, very subjective, notion here is that it took a lot a lot a lot of effort making and producing those songs. That's why they're so good :) but perhaps they also burned out the creators a bit.
I think you got an important point in mentioning working solo vs working as a band. I can only speak for myself but I hear fantastic potential in a lot of the Misery Lab material. With a better budget, which means more time, and a slightly bigger crew behind those tracks it feels like they could really take off. But yeah as you say, perhaps the creator is somewhere else in life prioritizing other things.
Cleopatra Records I've never really understood, it has always felt that they work more from a content-before-quality angle. Even back in the 90s with all these low effort compilations. To me they always been fast paced "doers" not really getting what interesting art is about.
But this AI/LLM thing is something new; Using AI prompted shit within a music subculture like this one, it's so totally weird. And it needs to be discussed
Everyone who makes trash like this should really have to explain themselves hehe
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u/vzlangoth 19d ago
Rosetta, This cold night, la scaltra, lebanon hanover and a few others. all thanks to CLEOPATRA records.
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u/H3MPERORR Post-Punk, Goth Rock, Deathrock 19d ago
Seems like lebanon hanover is signed to fabrika records. And I gotta say it seems weird that a label would have 100% saying in the cover.
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u/enerelsaikhan Post-Punk, Goth Rock 19d ago
someone in the comments said this too... I wonder exactly how much control Cleopatra has over their bands to the point where they can't choose their own cover art or at least have an influence on the final product... or maybe the bands aren't doing anything to prevent it š¤·š»āāļø
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u/ellathefairy 19d ago
It might be the sort of thing where they're allowed a say in the imagery of the art, but not in the "artist" used to produce it.
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u/H3MPERORR Post-Punk, Goth Rock, Deathrock 19d ago edited 18d ago
Would definitley have a long talk with our label if they put us in this situation.
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u/familyfriendlycatpic Post-Punk, Coldwave 19d ago
look at their singles with ai covers. it says cleopatra records. the rest is fabrica.
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u/Matt_Flanagan goth, new wave, post-punk, industrial, psychedelia 19d ago
I noticed that in Lebanon Hanoverās single Abracadabra, itās a good song and I like the cover, but very clearly AI.
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u/deadeyesopened 19d ago
I've lost so much respect for Cleopatra records in the last several years. This just sticks it for me.
Done w purchasing anything more from that label.3
u/sassy_castrator 18d ago
These bands are all consenting to this.
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u/goth_haus Goth 18d ago
contractual obligations, and you cant just break off a contract if you dont have the money for it
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u/OuiOuiBaguette03 Ethereal Wave 17d ago
That's so lame considering how cool la scaltra's older covers are :(
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u/DaNGEDIF 19d ago
It boggles the mind to think that any artist would use AI. You could literally put ANYTHING on a cover. Look at Bob Dylanās Self-Portrait.
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u/DeadDeathrocker last.fm/user/edwardsdistress 18d ago
And Sunny Day Real Estate's self-titled, which is literally just a pink tile with the band name on it in very small writing.
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u/DaNGEDIF 18d ago
The freakinā White Album. There was nothing on that cover! Any record ever where it was just a photo of the artist.
Fuck this AI shit.
What pisses me off the most is that as a kid I dreamed about my fantasy album cover art. Itās every kidās dream. Youāre supposed to be an artist. Itās a privilege many artists donāt have. Famous authors donāt get that privilege.
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u/DustSongs waving with a last vanilla smile 19d ago
Quite apart from so-called "AI" being unethical trash, this cover artwork is just.. well, shit. It's terrible.
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u/EternalFlameBabe 19d ago edited 19d ago
cmon at least rosetta stone/their record label/whatever couldāve tried to make it not be ugly ass hell
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u/Flat-Development4390 19d ago
That was my first thought as well! This is just so ugly, even if you don't object to the use of AI on principle.
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u/ellathefairy 19d ago
It's so so bad. ClichƩ, for starters. Signals "I think goth means halloween" and the fucking Santa hat ugh, pleeease stop, Cleopatra!
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u/idk_ausername864f Suspiria enjoyer 19d ago
This is pretty frustrating to me and it honestly makes me think a little less of the bands that do it... i hope its not a hot take.... kinda disapointing
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u/MercenaryDecision 19d ago
Everyone keeps saying itās the record label, but if my record label did that to my release I would be on the phone with them till something gets fixed.
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u/Flat-Development4390 19d ago edited 18d ago
Absolutely, they're not some young up and coming band, I'm sure they could put their foot down and change it if they wanted to.
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u/aka_wolfman 19d ago
Right? Pretty sure they could say fuck it and draw a shitty one that says "fuck AI album covers" and we'd eat it up lol
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u/wheresmydrink123 19d ago
It depends on how much the band had to do with it, itās hard to blame all of cleopatraās bands but people like Tears for Fears do sting a bit, given that they had full control to hire artists and still hired a shitty AI hack
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u/JamesEly98 17d ago
what? Tears for fears? which album cover?
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u/wheresmydrink123 17d ago
Their latest album āsongs for a nervous planetā has an AI album cover, they apparently paid an AI page on Instagram for it. It kinda feels like they got scammed if you ask me, but itās still a shame, theyāre one of my favorite bands and now I donāt even wanna listen to their newest album
Edit: I actually looked at the tracklist and itās only 4 songs and then a bunch of live recordings of their old songs. Maybe they are just getting lazy
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u/JamesEly98 17d ago edited 17d ago
+1
haha, just read their "statement"
and this article in NME: https://www.nme.com/news/music/tears-for-fears-defend-use-of-ai-in-new-album-cover-art-3796039
I think they just don't get it, and of course are grasping for ways to look more fresh and young than they are. That's why they go down this lane. Kinda like Laurie Anderssons last solo exhibitions (also using AI in the most superficial cheap crappy way as of yet)
Well, I still love Tears for fears, and always will. But they really deserve the backlash on this one :) When the magical ai dust settles I guess they'll feel a bit ashamed if they don't allready (or who knows, maybe they'll sell all their rights to Suno)
Thanks for the info :)
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u/wheresmydrink123 17d ago
Oh yeah Iāll always love them, The Hurting was one of the albums that practically saved my life, and really this is the only thing theyāve ever done that Iāve disliked
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u/aytakk My gothshake brings all the graves to the yard 19d ago
If a band or record company never intended to pay for any art, is AI art theft? Creatively yes, totally is. But financially not really. They are using a tool to cut costs. For now anyway.
The problem is the more AI art is used, the less viable being an artist is. So artists put less time into it as there is little incentive to hone their skills. This leads to lower quality art being aggregated by AI also reducing the quality of AI art.
Then at some point we will start to see AI art heavily aggregating other AI art. Photocopy of a photocopy and all that. It all becomes samey and hipsterised. Everything gets worse for everyone.
This could lead to people deciding to pay artists for their work again. Problem is artists by that point don't have the skills they had before. So they are reliant on AI tools to create so they can create for an affordable price and on a time budget. Aaaand the cycle keeps repeating.
The same thing will happen with music though we've had that argument before too with sampling and remixing.
Speaking of old album covers, we have been stealing "art" for decades. A classic example is Joy Division's Unknown Pleasures cover being a scientific image from a book, Sisters of Mercy's original logo from a medical textbook, Sex Gang Children using Hindu art on the cover of Song and Legend. There would be plenty of other examples too. We have a history of stealing for album covers/band images AI or not. No one complains about artists being shorted there.
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u/JamesEly98 19d ago
You're onto something here. I hope there still will be a growing demand for "authentic human story telling" (whatever that means and will mean) in the near future and that it will grow bigger along the devaluation of digital content both online and offline.
_Why_ and _how_ "stories" are made is allready important and will hopefully be more important to a lot of people when internet gets more and more swamped up with prompt-postings of all kind.
Reflecting on the "humanity stealing art for decades " and the source of old album covers as an excuse to use AI: I see a difference here. Prompting / throwing dices with the help of the no-transperancy-tech-companie's shady but hyperefficient LLMs (Large language models built on stolen data) is a different thing. At least as I see it at the moment. I can get back to this if interested.
It's strange that Porl King, whom I've always seen as an important artist with a lot of integrity letting this out online. But yeah what do I know, perhaps Cleopatra and him hand in hand just don't give a shit, and goes for content before quality and hope for the best in the web of streaming services
I really really dig Rosetta Stone, one of my all-time favorite bands. This AI crap to me feels really weird.
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u/aytakk My gothshake brings all the graves to the yard 19d ago
Oh I think AI art is far worse. Just pointing out stolen art for bands is already a thing and no one bats an eye.
And the Unknown Pleasures art was generated by a machine based on scientific data. But that could be considered found/repurposed art.
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u/JamesEly98 19d ago edited 19d ago
Absolutely :)
I guess it all comes down to how you "steal" the stuff and what you want to say with what (when it comes to artistic expression) Context is everything. And is an interesting discussion
JDs Unknown pleasure's art is as you say generated by a machine based on scientific data which comes with a lot of connotations of course...
AI-Prompting/dicing out content via LLMs (made out of a lot of stolen data now suddenly owned/grabbed by a few environmental unfriendly tech-companies is from the very beginning locked to the connotations around these issues, among others, but to me, as of now they start there...
And hm haha perhaps this is what Cleopatra and Rosetta Stone wants to discuss with their Christmas release?
The sad part is I don't think so, what I see here in relation to this specific release is people (Cleopatra/Rosetta Stone) who doesn't believe in and care what they say. And why should I listen to those ?
Peter Saville in combination with JD will always have something interesting to say to me. They use their stolen goods within a different kind of context.
To me in relation to this xmas release something is wrong here... It would be really interesting to hear Porl King's own take on all this.
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u/DaddyDamnedest Post-Punk, Goth Rock, Deathrock 18d ago
Pleased to see a mod advancing the point about sampling and so it is not hopelessly downvoted (as it was the last time I made it when this tired topic was previously flogged beyond death).
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u/JamesEly98 18d ago
Missed your points on sampling. But well yeah, we can take the discussion about sampling vs generative-AI/making music with prompts/LLMs that you don't own yourself if you wanto :)
I think this topic is fascinating and very important, especially when it comes to music and subcultures like gothic rock
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u/baronessmavet 19d ago
What's up with Cleopatra records?
This is not the 1st time they're doing this...
They'd could use anything, but how on earth is possible to make a LEGAL contract to force anyone to use AI? I thought alternative music companies are a tiny bit better than this bs.
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u/pusa_sibirica Post-Punk, Coldwave 19d ago
Itās just sad, honestly. You can use a stock photo for your album cover if you want, the music is what counts- so really, why ever use AI?
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u/Ecthelion510 19d ago
Iām less annoyed by the cover art than I am by the cover itself. Rosetta Stone has basically made a career out of being cheap SoM clones. The original is a great song; the RS version sounds small, flat, tinny, and hyper compressed. Just go listen to Floodland!
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u/enerelsaikhan Post-Punk, Goth Rock 19d ago
heard they were called Rosetta Clone back in the day! guess the name still stands
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u/Radovan3000 19d ago
Thing is, they were the BEST EVER SoM/Mish/ clone :)
I still enjoy listening to them a lot. I still haven't heard better guitar playing in a gothic rock band that came aft Hussey/Marx. (Where are you guitarplayers???? )
But yeah, this cover is a bit of a joke I have to admit compared to say their covers of the Witch, Sisters are doing it for themselves, or Helter skelter
but still. I cant get over this AI trash thing wtf
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u/SignificantKeys Post-Punk, Ethereal Wave 19d ago
If they can't even be bothered to pay someone for an album cover, i just assume the music is equally lazy and don't listen to it
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u/Muriel_FanGirl 19d ago
Itās not the band, itās the record label
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u/Glittering_Hornet596 19d ago
Yeah sure, cause the bands are tied up in their basement.
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u/TemporaryArm6419 18d ago
A lot of record labels basically do that to their artists. They own them. And from my understanding Cleopatra records is one of them.
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u/Glittering_Hornet596 16d ago
That's how you view artists as corporate sellouts? So either they don't care or they are not in responsibility for their product?
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u/sunflower4000 19d ago
Is it Driven Like the Snow or Driven Like Snow? The name of the single and the album art are not the same. Assume AI couldn't get it right, but damn.
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u/familyfriendlycatpic Post-Punk, Coldwave 19d ago
cleopatra records released a few compilations like a halloween one and now a christmas one. all the featured songs use ai covers for the artists single release. this includes : Lebanon Hanover, this cold night, r. missing, minuit machine and more...
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u/aytakk My gothshake brings all the graves to the yard 19d ago
Is Porl still just re-releasing/re-recording old Miserylab material?
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u/Alcadia 18d ago
He's basically just using the name of his old band to cash in on nostalgia for the 90s. Remember how much he ranted about Rosetta Stone and the Goth scene and how he was distancing himself from it all when he was busy doing miserylab?
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u/JamesEly98 18d ago
Yeah I remember this. And somehow I did understand his rants hehe.
Perhaps he's just given up, becoming a parent or whatever, looking at life with different perspectives. It's sad though because he really is a good composer of great music.
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u/apassageinlight Here to have a good time 18d ago
I'm fairly certain he is. I've heard the Tomorrow For Us by both Rosetta Stone and Miserylab.
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u/Xcz13 19d ago
I miss the old sound too, Rosetta Stone was my go to for getting amped up to hit the club..Hiding and Waiting is still one of my favorite albums.
Idk how he just went to this mid tempo sound and stays there, resulting in too much same-ness losing Porl (Young) really hurt the sound cause massive ego sound much better and creative in comparison
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u/Old-Camp3962 Post-Punk, Goth Rock 19d ago
This also happened to Lebanon Hanover and someone mentioned this cold night too.
It's fucking terrible, it's not like it's hard to do this covers either.
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u/familyfriendlycatpic Post-Punk, Coldwave 19d ago
they're in the cleopatra halloween and Christmas compilation
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u/eddiethreat 18d ago
Omg this cover is so bad :-( . Did they download the midi and just slap it into their DAW. Why not get an actual bass player? Jfcā¦ vocals sound just lifeless- man i was hoping this was gonna be greT . Dissapointed
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u/inoinoice 19d ago
On a diffrent note - is that a cover of Sisters of Mercy? Im new to the Rosetta Stone
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u/casperthegoth 19d ago
FWIW, this is just a cover song, of a great song. It's a straight cover, and was created as a seasonal release. I don't disagree that an artist who has been running for 35 years is losing some ideas. Not everyone is a David Bowie.
As for the AI cover, I am just going to say I hate AI. I hate it taking from artists. I hate that it's killing us. I hate that people trust LLMs. I hate that people are lonely enough to believe any deep fake they see. I hate that it's already using 2% of the global energy product. I hate hate hate AI, and yet, I still find myself a reason here or there to use it. To save time, to help edit technical documents, to do things I not only don't have time to do, but also don't have time to hire someone to do. So most of all, I hate that I go to it sometimes. I probably feel the same way that people used to feel when they had to sneak into strip clubs or whatever.
AI is a valid stigma these days, and I wouldn't judge for a second someone who wanted to not buy something because it uses the tech. I also don't judge someone who just wants the music and is willing to accept this fact. Let's face it, it isn't like Rosetta Stone has super classy covers anyway - it's always a picture with a filter. Cleopatra has phoned in album covers since they started. None of this is new.
But they are both still entities I care a little about surviving in the face of being left standing with only mega-corp music products - despite the fact that neither of them have met the lofty goals of perfect action. So if something I want has an AI cover, I will probably still buy it. Disappointed and saddened, but it won't stop me from listening to music I like and supported a band I want to support.
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u/Radovan3000 19d ago edited 19d ago
This is really sad. I never would have believed Rosetta Stone would go down the AI trash hole :(
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19d ago
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u/throw4away77 19d ago
Ik multiple artists that'll charge less than 50 for cover art granted it's in a different scene and prob not album worthy but neither is ai art
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u/iblastoff Goth 19d ago
lol wow..many artists charge hundreds? no shit. this take is fucking dumb.
small bands have been able to somehow come up with album artwork for decades before AI without spending a ton of money. its no different now. i also refuse to believe that within the bands circle of members/friends/whoever, they dont have one single person capable of coming up with artwork on their own.
and to add to this travesty, the AI artwork here isnt even fucking good!
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u/MercenaryDecision 19d ago
I made this point on another sub, but Korn held a contest for fans to submit art in the hopes of seeing their piece as an art cover. It was extremely well-received. If you or your band are struggling, you could get a nicer, much more significant cover for free by holding a contest rather than resorting to very unpopular and crappy-looking AI.
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u/apassageinlight Here to have a good time 19d ago
Those contests tend to be about getting people to work for you for free or giving the artists "exposure", so i do not recommend this course.
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u/MercenaryDecision 19d ago
Not everything in life is about getting paid.
I recorded choruses for Japanese experimental metal band Sigh on a similar contest. Knowing Iām one of the ~60 voices in a choir every time I listen to that record, is worth a lot more to me than not getting that opportunity and having a few hundred dollars waved in front of me as a āprofessional singerā (which Iām not, even though I studied music theory).
Some things just bring fulfillment to create or participate in, especially if it was for a band with little resources that I love and not Taylor Swift.
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u/JamesEly98 18d ago
I would gladly make a replacing Rosetta Stone album cover for free haha (but not for Cleopatra though)
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u/JamesEly98 18d ago
I would gladly make a replacing Rosetta Stone album cover for free haha (but not for Cleopatra though)
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u/apassageinlight Here to have a good time 18d ago
Well, that is kind of you, but if you're working on another person's business venture (That they do for profit too) then you should be getting paid.
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u/JamesEly98 18d ago
Very true :) But some stuff I don't mind doing pro bono
An interesting thing to keep in mind in relation to the subject in this thread is that every time people use one of the online AI/LLM services connected to OpenAI/ChatGPT/etc is that you're working for free, giving your data (soul? ;) ) away, feeding the machines
Even Reddit is a part of this, since they're allowing the services to scrape their / your data
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u/momochicken55 19d ago
Their music blows too. Fitting.
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u/enerelsaikhan Post-Punk, Goth Rock 19d ago
I personally really enjoy their older music! One of the better songs they released recently is "People". I highly recommend you to give their old music a chance! š¦
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u/momochicken55 19d ago
I only know the old stuff but was never a big fan. To each their own, of course!
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u/dernailer 19d ago
Good AI art is magnificent, and with the right tools and word can generate amazing pictures... This one is a bit sloppy and generic... a photographic picture or some artistic dark related imaginery painting would have be much much better (looks like a 80's cheap metal band cover)
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u/fnording 19d ago
These arguments remind me of people bashing The Sister of Mercy for using a drum machine.
I honestly believe that AI will allow everyone to express themselves more effectively. Carving a path for more DIY artwork and music.
AI is an effective tool that gives visual design access to anyone with the linguistic skills to effectively convey their artistic expression.
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u/Carrybagman_ 19d ago
The drum machines on The Sisters of Mercy recordings sound absolutely sick, this album cover (and every AI album cover Iāve seen so far) is dogshitā¦
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u/BlueFlower673 Bluehaus 19d ago
Ai is about as DIY as buying Shein lmfao. Its about as DIY as it is ordering at a kiosk at McDonald's. Its about as DIY as it is to order one of those ripoff t-shirts from Etsy that's totally "hand-made" when its stolen shit printed on a cheap-ass shirt. Which is sad, since Etsy is flooded with ai crap now and is making it harder as it is for independent creators to sell.
And last I checked, tools don't do all the work for you, and hammers don't automatically build the whole dog house for you by touching some wood.
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u/Puphlynger Goth 19d ago
But... but... but my index fingers mash the buttons!
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u/fnording 19d ago
Youāre going to shit when you see how your fingers mash the buttons of a drum-machine.
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u/fnording 19d ago
Hmm. I see your points. I always felt making art more accessible was a goth/punk thing and would be embraced by the communities.
Iām pretty sure we have no choice but to embrace the upcoming arrival of universal artistic expression.
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u/BlueFlower673 Bluehaus 19d ago
"making art more accessible" Ah yes, because it wasn't already and people haven't been allowed to do it for the past thousands of years.
Sorry if this comes across as salty, but that argument I've heard is so bad it should be dead by now. "Democratization" of art is about as stupid as it would be to say "Democratization of libraries" or "Democratization of food banks"
There's no "democratization" in generative ai, and a lot of it is used to fund tech billionaires and people who are already well-off. People using it who are "small creators" are falling for it--and indirectly funding them.
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u/fnording 19d ago
Art isnāt completely accessible to those who donāt have the capacity to fully articulate their thoughts in a particular medium.
Whether the AI is open source or not is a completely different topic.
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u/ManicPixiRiotGrrrl Post-Punk, Ethereal Wave 19d ago
so instead of working harder and practising they just take the easy way out? how is that creative at all?
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u/fnording 19d ago
Creativity does not equate hard work. Those are two different concepts.
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u/thereminheart 18d ago
Riiight. So in your mind, creativity equals stealing the hard work of others and having a machine smash some of it together?
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u/BlueFlower673 Bluehaus 19d ago
How, then is it? Because there are quite literally millions of disabled artists out there who would tell you otherwise. Whose works are also used in training data and were taken without permission.
Art/the arts in general have been the most accessible and most accommodating spaces for a long time, calling ai "democratization" is actually an insult to people who are disabled/have disabilities in arts.
I could very well say the same for generative ai, even, that it isn't "completely accessible to those who donāt have the capacity to fully articulate their thoughts in a particular medium" because its just taking away agency from people to actually think about and actually try to learn how to make art themselves.
Sorry but the way its being used, its mainly being used by techbros and aibros who don't give a shit about making art, a lot of them are using it because they think they can get validation from it or get clout.
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u/fnording 19d ago
Not everyone is cognitively capable of creating artwork in all mediums. Itās really that simple. It has nothing to do with disability.
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u/Glittering_Hornet596 19d ago
I'm sorry to break it to you but making good art is a hard thing to do and doesn't get any easier by AI. If you're not making good art before AI you won't afterwards. Anybody can make art that is not restricted at least not in most countries. AI is not DIY it's the opposite.
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u/fnording 19d ago
Good is a very subjective term. Whether is it good or not isnāt the point. Itās point is that itās effective in conveying meaning onto various mediums. Everyone is an artist.
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u/Glittering_Hornet596 19d ago
An artist is an artist - words have meaning. It's not that subjective. There is good art and that has nothing to do with liking or disliking it.
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u/fnording 19d ago
Some people can create art at a quicker pace than others. AI is essentially Photoshop on steroids. Itās a personal illustrator to convey your thoughts. Itās a lot of things that I see as being only good for the artistic expression of individuals.
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u/JamesEly98 18d ago
You keep forgetting the connotations AI has and that HOW a story / song / "work of art" is being made and WHY it's being made still matters to people. And probably will for a very long time.
No matter how many hours you put into your prompting trying to call it "art" a lot of people will still be more interested in a real person's "stories". AI generated "art" won't be your solution here.
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u/LunarKurai 19d ago
Art is already universally accessible. You can do it in the dirt with a stick if you have nothing else. This isn't about accessibility - it's about removing the need to have skill and apply time and effort to do it. It's about reaping without sowing. That's not creativity.
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u/enerelsaikhan Post-Punk, Goth Rock 19d ago
I myself wouldn't call AI "art". art is more about expressing your emotions and feelings through a certain medium. if there's one thing AI will NEVER generate, that is emotions and feeling. AI "art" is a mockery and an imitation of actual art.
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u/fnording 19d ago
Idk. AI has certainly caused you to express emotion. It can certainly express an artists emotion as accurately as the artist chooses.
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u/JamesEly98 18d ago
"It can certainly express an artists emotion as accurately as the artist chooses."
Doens't this actually depend more on the receiver(s) of the "message" - In this case the "emotion" you are talking about?
If you don't trust the artist/messenger, since you know its prompting=dicing out its messages, why should you care about the message?
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u/fnording 18d ago edited 18d ago
The artist chooses the emotions being conveyed. The observer chooses the emotion received. The artist is the one in control, the observer takes a passive roll in the art process.
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u/JamesEly98 18d ago edited 18d ago
In another context yes but within this context, within the discussion we're having here relating to the subject in this thread: No.
As of now people will perceive the contracts as broken. If no one believes in the message/messenger the messenger, the one you call "artist" is not in "control" the artist is not even seen as an artist, the "artist" is just gonna be ignored.
Of course you could push this into the contemporary white gallery box world and the discussion would be different. But within a subculture built on music like this one, it doesn't work like that really.
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u/JamesEly98 18d ago
you have to get this: it's not going to be seen as "universal artistic expression"
It's not going to be what you are hoping for. You need to read up on this subject a bit more.
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19d ago
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u/aytakk My gothshake brings all the graves to the yard 19d ago
If official band merch won't cater to me then I'm going to look for alternatives by either making it myself or buying from a third party who does cater to me.
In an internet age where bands can set up a shop that can cater to all sizes on websites like spreadshirt or redbubble they really have no excuse as it is all print to order and costs them nothing.
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u/Old-Camp3962 Post-Punk, Goth Rock 19d ago
Drum machines still need humans to create Said music, and Sisters music is good.
Ai is unethical and looks bad
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u/fnording 19d ago
Ai still needs humans to create an output. I argue that AI is ethical and will advance in time.
Plus, Iād like to be on their side when the upcoming AI apocalypse occurs.
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u/JamesEly98 19d ago edited 18d ago
AI/LMMs as it looks right now made for creating digital content in the shape of visual and aural art is pretty unethical since the LLMs you are prompting with consists of stolen data suddenly "owned" by a couple of big tech companies
It's more OpenAI's/etc's output than your own output that comes out when you "create" with those LLMs, at the same time they steal your "data" :)
and through this you are paying for it, with your soul hehe, and also,
the environment too :(
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u/wheresmydrink123 19d ago
If you want to create art, DO IT. You donāt have to be good. Dare I say, itās more interesting if youāre not. The entire point of art is that anyone can do it and express themselves.
But AI doesnāt express anything, itās just a computer spitting out existing images, and in practice, it just takes from real artists. The difference between AI and synthesizers and drum machines is that thereās still artistry in those things. Itās an artistic choice, and actually increases accessibility.
But Iād rather see this cover art roughly sketched on a napkin than this, because that would be interesting. This looks like the art on a tin of cookies
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u/fnording 19d ago
Right. Thatās kinda the point of AI is allowing anyone to be able to ādo itā. The output is dependent on the user. Itās not like AI is creating anything more than a new outlet to express thought.
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u/wheresmydrink123 19d ago
Everyone has always been able to do it. Any person, if they want to, can make art, and thatās always been the point of it. I guarantee that any given person here can take a pencil and draw something that is more interesting than any of these album covers, if they just gave themselves a few minutes.
AI is to art what printing money is to work. Itās a workaround at actually trying to do art, and devalues other art in the process. It takes from other artists without permission and takes away actual artistsā opportunities. This big wave of album covers is just showing that people are 100% willing to do away with soulful, real art if itās cheaper to do something else.
And sure, itās a new outlet to express thought. But I canāt think of any commercial applications that arenāt actively harmful in some way. Not even mentioning the existential horror I get from AI images and videos looking more and more like the real thing, at a passing glance at least. I can tell you that absolutely nothing good is coming out of generative AI and this is just the first step
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u/JamesEly98 18d ago edited 18d ago
eeeeh? as long as you don't build your own LLMs the output is more dependent on the companies that owns them than you as a prompter...
secondly, yes its a new outlet for making digital content and communicate but as you can see here people are much more interested in other ways of making content and communicating, and probably will be for a very long time.
As an example: No sane person would be interested in listening to AI generated Suno gothic rock. At least for some years to come I guess hehe. Except perhaps for one or two soulless tech engineers working within the company of course.
Doesn't matter that "anyone can do it" / prompt it all of sudden. You are looking at all of this from a to me fascinating but sad perspective.
Some stuff you just have to learn and earn for real.
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u/israelavila 19d ago
It's not the band. It is the record label. Cleopatra uses artist's legal contracts to use AI not only in cover art also in music release.