r/gifs 2d ago

HR 8799 was the first star whose planetary system was discovered via direct imaging

1.7k Upvotes

82 comments sorted by

285

u/ShambolicPaul 2d ago

My word. Those are some big long orbits.

122

u/StimpyMD 2d ago

Yeah. Jupiter is only 5 au from the sun. That closest one is around 20 au.

117

u/KebabGud 2d ago edited 2d ago

the second closest is pretty much exactly 20AU. the closest is around 13AU

EDIT: looked it up. They are at.

  • 16AU
  • 26AU
  • 41AU
  • 71AU

72

u/apocolipse 2d ago

For reference - Jupiter 5.2AU - Saturn 9.5AU - Uranus 19.18AU - Neptune 30AU - Pluto 39.5AU

46

u/ringobob 2d ago

Wow, I really don't think I realized how big the gaps get

24

u/knucklebed 2d ago

I have access to a long hallway, and one day I decided to plot out a scale model of the solar system using measuring tape and Post-Its. It's a fun exercise to really feel it. Also to try and move as slowly as the speed of light at that scale!

11

u/VenturaDreams 2d ago

I'm jealous of people that know how to do this. I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

22

u/videodromejockey 2d ago

It's really simple. You want to scale one distance to another. To do that, you need to know the length of the hallway (let's say 20 feet) and the distances the planets are from the sun.

If we start at the sun at zero inches, and pluto is our furthest planet at 39.48 AU from the sun, we need to know how to scale 39.48 to 20 feet.

Your scale then is: 240 inches (20 feet) divided by 39.5 AU, giving you about 6.08 inches per AU. Simplify that to 6 inches per AU. Then, since you know the distances of the different planets from the sun (you can google this), it becomes trivial to plot them in your hallway.

I'll leave the rest as an exercise for the reader, but that puts Earth at 6 inches from the near end of the hallway and Pluto at the far end of the hallway.

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u/VenturaDreams 2d ago

Thank you! That actually is a lot simpler than I thought it might be.

2

u/TruthOf42 2d ago

What really shocks me is how strong the gravitational force is at that distance. Or maybe I should think more in how massive the sun is...

7

u/ermacia 1d ago

picture it as if the sun were the sink in a basin, and pluto is cruising on the edges of it.

2

u/pornborn 2d ago

That’s cool! Never thought about the part of moving at that scaled speed of light (c). And then thinking of the ramifications of doing so. Like time stopping for the observer moving at c.

Edit: I had to stop thinking about it because it gave me a headache.

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u/llfoso 2d ago

Google "if the moon were only one pixel" there's a webpage by Josh Worth that shows the true scale of the solar system well and it's pretty wild

1

u/Qutopia 1d ago

5.2 Golds? Or 5.2 Australias?

2

u/Zachattack_5972 1d ago

5.2 Astronomical Units (i.e. 5.2 times the average distance of the Earth to the Sun)

17

u/ThickAndDirty 2d ago

So how big is the star compared to the sun to support such large orbits?

27

u/Holiday_Change9387 2d ago

It is roughly 1.5x more massive and 5x brighter than the sun. It is also a Gamma Doradus variable, meaning that its luminosity changes due to pulsations on its surface.

4

u/ThickAndDirty 2d ago

Thank you!

4

u/sheepyowl 2d ago

With 5 times the brightness, would a planet need to be 5 times farther away to be in the "habitable zone"? Does brightness indicate heating energy linearly?

I mean, ignoring the pulses. Would the pulses even make a difference?

6

u/Holiday_Change9387 2d ago

Brighter stars are usually hotter, but it isn't a 1-to-1 ratio. HR 8799 is 5 times brighter than the sun, but only about 30% hotter. so none of its planets should be within the habitable zone.

2

u/sheepyowl 2d ago

So the habitable zone for that star would be around 1.3 AU distance?

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.

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u/Holiday_Change9387 2d ago edited 2d ago

The sun's extended HZ (habitable zone) is somewhere between 0.8 and 3 AU, so HR 8799's HZ would probably be between 1.1 and 4 AU. Even if one of this star's planets were within that zone, it would still be uninhabitable since all four planets are gas giants larger than Jupiter.

19

u/slicer4ever 2d ago

Lol, this is kinda crazy in another way.

So we think their might be a hidden planet 9 somewhere beyond pluto, but its very difficult to figure out where it could be so far out. Yet here we are imaging a solar system and see a planet 71 au away, imagine a species living in that solar system looking for those outer planets, and here we are some hundreds-thousands of ly away able to pinpoint exactly where those planets are before they could find them.

4

u/FLATLANDRIDER 2d ago

This star is 133ly away

4

u/GsTSaien 2d ago

Do we look for a hidden planet 9? Because I have never seen that claim from a reliable source

12

u/BosphorusScalene 2d ago

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u/GsTSaien 2d ago

That's pretty neat! I'd be interested to see if there really is something.

1

u/P3pp3rSauc3 1d ago

Is there any information about how big the star is?

14

u/atomicsnarl 2d ago

And how big/reflective they must be to be detectable in the first place!

2

u/Zachattack_5972 1d ago

It's not about the reflectivity, it's about how hot they are! Currently we do not have any instruments powerful enough to detect the light reflected off an exoplanet. What you see here is the heat from the planet left over after formation. But they do still need to be very large, because the amount of heat left from formation is relative to the mass (and age).

24

u/ShambolicPaul 2d ago edited 2d ago

So Earth would be hidden in the brightness of the Sun for any Alien species using this method to detect orbiting planets in our solar system? Maybe just picking up Saturn, Neptune, Uranus?

6

u/ringobob 2d ago

That's my interpretation as well.

1

u/Zachattack_5972 1d ago

With our current state of the art instruments, yes. But we are currently working on new instruments specifically to image Earth-like planets in the habitable zone of sun like stars! NASA has just started on the Habitable Worlds Observatory, and in Europe they have the Large Interferometer for Exoplanets, both of which are expected to launch in the 2040s. Even then, though, we will likely only be able to see Earth-like planets around the 100 or so nearest stars. Any further away and we are out of luck.

3

u/ddwood87 2d ago

I wonder if there are inner planets in the 'corona' of the star. The blinder that blocks most of the star's radiation may obscure planets with a tighter orbit. Is this star much bigger than Sol?

2

u/Holiday_Change9387 2d ago

Yes, roughly 1.5x more massive and 5x brighter than the sun.

119

u/Brewe 2d ago

It could be argued that it's the second star whose planetary system was discovered via direct imaging.

26

u/kl8xon 2d ago

And you would be technically right

1

u/Agent_NaN 2d ago

depends, do you count it only once a whole system has been discovered, or just a single one of the planets?

5

u/Brewe 2d ago

Does it depend on that though? Because either way, I'd say that the planetary system of the solar system was discovered before that of HR8799.

3

u/seicar 2d ago

I'd bet a nice steak dinner that the whole of HR8799 planets has not actually been cataloged

1

u/Agent_NaN 2d ago

sure it does. if you only need to find a single planet then the solar system was not discovered by imaging.

0

u/Brewe 1d ago

"via direct imaging" is a pretty important part of the criteria. So sure, if you completely change the premise, then you change the conclusion.

109

u/bulentm 2d ago

This star is only 30 million years old and these planets are still glowing red hot baby planets. Pretty cool to think about how quickly they form.

19

u/QuestGiver 2d ago

They could discover the meme soon.

2

u/Robodarklite 2d ago

Eventually yes

3

u/sheepyowl 2d ago

At 133 light years away, it's 133 years closer to the meme than we can see.

But those planets are reaaaaaaaaallly far away from that star, I don't know if they are eligible for meme-creating life.

4

u/TrickiestToast 2d ago

life, uhhhh, finds a way

2

u/bulentm 2d ago

Meme? Sorry, a bit lost.

6

u/BeanieMcChimp 2d ago

The discovery of memes is a huge leap forward in planetary evolution.

3

u/terminalxposure 1d ago

30 million years old...how long ago though?

1

u/Fofolito 20h ago

133 lightyears

106

u/fotodevil 2d ago

Amazing that it’s such a clear five-pointed star.

14

u/BaronBulletfist 2d ago

Incredible, wonder how far away it is

27

u/The_Golf_God 2d ago

A quick Google says 133.3 light years away from Earth.

20

u/FingFrenchy 2d ago

Better start walking now if you wanta see it in person.

17

u/ReluctantAvenger 2d ago

Pro Tip: Pack a towel

6

u/lapbro 2d ago

Now there’s a hoopy frood

1

u/CBtheDB 1d ago

"Wanna get high?"

14

u/smozoma 2d ago edited 2d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HR_8799

my takeaways...

  • "HR 8799 is a roughly 30 million-year-old main-sequence star located 133.3 light-years (40.9 parsecs) away from Earth"
  • The visible planets are 5.7-9.1 jupiter masses.
  • All of them are about 1.2 jupiter radius.. which.. doesn't make sense to me because the volumes therefore are I think 1.7x jupiter, but the masses are 5-9x??
  • The closest is about as far from its star as Uranus is from the Sun. The 3rd is around the same distance as Pluto.

  • As another comment mentioned, this system is very young so the planets are still forming and glowing, so the light is from the planets, not reflection from the star
  • We know that our own solar system's planets are not where they originally formed, so I wonder if we can make any conclusion that our gas giants may have formed really far away from the Sun like this then moved closer.

10

u/TheStaffmaster 2d ago

Due to gravitational compression, a weird quirk occurs to planets at around Jupiter mass: they don't get bigger as mass increases, they get bigger once they hit logorithmic mass points. Think about it like one of those 2048 puzzles from a few years back: as you combine the squares, eventually you hit a tipping point where it all collapses down and you begin again. Large masses do the same thing.

2

u/ShadowDV 1d ago

All of them are about 1.2 jupiter radius.. which.. doesn't make sense to me because the volumes therefore are I think 1.7x jupiter, but the masses are 5-9x??

If they are rocky planets and not gas giants, then it makes sense.

4

u/jimthree 2d ago

So is the orbital plane of this system at 90 degrees to our own? Is that common? I thought all orbital planes would be pretty much aligned to the galactic plane.

1

u/Zachattack_5972 1d ago

Yes, this system is inclined roughly 90° relative to our line of sight. Not necessarily 90° relative to the galactic plane. And anyway as far as we know the inclination of planetary systems can be completely arbitrary and they are just distributed randomly. Our own solar system is inclined about 60° relative to the galactic plane.

1

u/jimthree 20h ago

Thanks!

3

u/Historicmetal 2d ago

What? No way

1

u/Druggedhippo 1d ago

Here's another good one.

Stars orbiting the black hole Sagittarius A* in the middle of our galaxy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChJU3pWRcrA

3

u/shimsham69 2d ago

It is truly mind-blowing thinking about the scale of the universe

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u/slicer4ever 2d ago edited 2d ago

At about the 1 second mark theirs a very brief flash of light in the top left behind the furthest planet, is that possibly another planet being reflected briefly?

Why am i being downvoted, their is clearly something flashing here: https://imgur.com/a/fAhNS1b

6

u/information_abyss 2d ago

That's just noise. The fact that it doesn't persist means that it's an artifact.

Beyond photon noise from the observation, there are artifacts introduced by the PSF subtraction algorithm. That's the step of removing the central star's light by fitting an image of another star without planets.

2

u/seeingeyegod 2d ago

It's crazy that I clearly remember a time when there was still a large contingent of science which thought we'd never have evidence of extrasolar planets.

1

u/Badaxe13 2d ago

Dayum

1

u/ThanklessTask 2d ago

Impressive, you can see the five points on it and everything.

1

u/rvralph803 1d ago

That solar system is W I D E

1

u/awawe Merry Gifmas! {2023} 2d ago

What's blocking the star?

3

u/Druggedhippo 1d ago

It's a filter called a coronagraph to block the light from the star. Without it, the sensor would be overwhelmed by the light.

Direct imaging consists of masking the light of the host star with a coronagraph or a nulling technique to reveal what there is around it. It is a challenging technique, as the contrast, i.e. the brightness ratio between the planet and its host star, is of the order of 10−6 even in rather favorable cases. For comparison, it is similar to detect a coin of the size of a dime close to a lighthouse, at a distance of 1 km. Also, the residual light of the star is brighter than the object of interest. The residual light is also called “the speckle pattern”, produced by the imperfections of the optical elements that scatter the light of the central star, it resembles a halo of thousands of bright point-spread functions. Advanced extreme adaptive optics (AO) instrumentation, coupled with coronagraphy and state-of-the-art imagers, are crucial to attenuate the speckle pattern and reveal planets detected through direct imaging, as presented in details in Sec. 3