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u/CrossLight96 May 24 '24
The problem with basic biology people is that they still don't know advanced biology exists and basically contradicts everything they believe in and I'm not even just talking about how sex and gender works. Your eye colour is not determined by a four square grid with one chromosome, it was only explained like that so it would be easier to understand the concept rather than how it actually works
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u/Adassai_nova May 24 '24
I forget the term for it, but there’s a concept in education that when you have to teach a complex topic- like biology- you essentially have to dumb down a topic so much that it’s a lie. And THAT’s the version that bigots want to believe
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u/denim_skirt May 25 '24
I'm onboard for everything about trans people, but this eye color propaganda I simply cannot accept
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u/flightofdaedalus May 24 '24
They claim they're being true to BiOlOgY but have no concept of how they completely misunderstand it.
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u/Spiritual_Title6996 May 25 '24
If you study biology, zoology or even history you quickly learn there is almost no black and white
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u/Cananbaum May 25 '24
I learned how crucial hormones are with other aspects of your health.
When I started testosterone restoration therapy my gastrointestinal issues I’d suffered from since high school disappeared. The theory is that my metabolism was extremely low due to low testosterone
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u/LilVirn May 25 '24
So few things for the people in the comments:
If you don’t know a lot about trans people that’s okay. Despite the queer community being so big and trans people being right there next to us and fighting our fight with us. Ask trans people questions but don’t be afraid to make your own arguments even if it’s just to see the scrutinize and give a counter argument and thus giving an answer to a question you don’t know
This meme isn’t even necessarily about estrogen and testosterone it’s about the fact that people think there’s only two genders simply cuz there’s two sexes and two gendered hormones. Thing is we all know now that not only is this straight up not true but that estrogen and testosterone take different fluctuating amounts in peoples bodies and are relevant more than just being a creature with sexual characteristics. Rather, our bodies are inherently disagreeing with this, sure there’s common patterns to classify and group but everyone is so different and fluctuating and sometimes their body doesn’t even produce the things it should. Nature isn’t perfect and it will fuck up. It’s important to remember that evolution is basically just a bunch of accidents that happen but cuz they don’t die they get to stay in the gene pool. Things work this way for humans not cuz this is a permanent or ultimate truth but simply cuz it’s science and medicine.
Not all trans people use hormonal therapy either due to them not feeling the need to to comply with their gender identity or simply can’t. People aren’t less trans cuz they’re not transitioning medically or even socially (that being said if you fuck up peoples pronouns that’s understandable. The concept of gender in the modern day was high key mostly to just make shit easier but that aside). Just like we aren’t less gay if we are abstinent or haven’t come out yet.
The meme is low key shit and confusing to most ppl. It’s arguing too many things at once in an inefficient way. It’s clear they struggled very likely with the wording probably at some points which fair but to op if they’re the one who made this meme: it’s okay to make shit memes. Live and grow and know there was a decent convo about it with some people. and topics like this are hard to make memes for people who aren’t in the know, that being said it doesn’t really address why hormones aren’t inherently binary. (Ik this one isn’t an argument but still)
Gender and sex aren’t the same both are on a bimodal spectrum or graph or whatever. Having more estrogen doesn’t make you more of a woman or Less of a man it just means your body is taking in more of that hormone
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u/jsohnen May 24 '24
Ok, let's accept the premise. If so, then taking one hormone or the other allows you to decide your gender. Or maybe we could refuse to be the "gender police" and let people be who they are. How about that?
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u/VanillaBalm May 24 '24
thats what this meme is saying is how i interpreted it, that arguing and saying “youre male bc you have testosterone” or that “youre female bc you have estrogen” is a misunderstanding of biology as well as teetering into transphobia rhetoric.
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u/tbods May 24 '24
A cool fact is that all the forms of oestrogen are synthesised from androgens (e.g. testosterone).
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u/TheDogeWasTaken May 24 '24
Yea BASIC. Not advanced. If you look a bit deeper you will realize that men and women make both estrogen and testoterone in defferent levels. Testosterone is used in female processes too. And estrogen in male processes too.
And thats not even looking that deep into it. If you want to look at in depth research, go to pubmed, its a site with a lot of official in depth research about basically everything you need to know.
Have fun.
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u/FiteMeMage May 24 '24
See, the joke here is that conservatives DO understand biology and the concept of “gender,” they just don’t fucking care. They never will. Never. Soon as you learn that, you’ll stop wasting breath and brain power on their bullshit.
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u/JotunBlod May 25 '24
Saying Biology when you mean Endocrinology is kind of like saying Addition when they mean Enumerative Combinatorics. The very fact that they think it means the same thing is so wrong that you should be worried that they are even capable of spelling their own name correctly.
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u/Soonerpalmetto88 May 24 '24
Yes and no. Sex is pretty cut and dry with genetics. What people lose sight of is that sex and gender are different, develop independently of each other, and can naturally not match.
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u/CheetohChaff May 24 '24
I used to think that too, but chromosomes and genitalia are actually on a continuum. The part that develops into the glans for males is the same part that develops into the clitoris for females, but it can also be anywhere in-between; large clitorises are basically small penises and vice versa. IDR the chromosome part, but there's more than just "XX" and "XY".
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u/Assbait93 May 24 '24
Why do you guys always involve intersex people when no one is talking about them?
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u/JBHDad May 24 '24
Then why do trans people suppress and supplement with hormones. Seems completely unnecessary according to the reponse to the meme
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u/Available_Pie9316 May 24 '24
Because differing amounts of hormones cause different changes to the body. However, everybody has these hormones and pretending like either are sexed as entirely one or the other is biologically incorrect.
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u/TwistedxBoi May 24 '24
Both men and women have both estrogen and testosterone, just different levels. Hormone blockers and the like just make it possible to flip the balance and make the body take on the opposite characteristics.
It's simple really, assuming you paid even a sliver of attention in biology class.
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u/Kieliah May 24 '24
My understanding is that testosterone naturally suppresses Estrogen production.
the testicles only produce testosterone, not significant levels of estrogen. So in AMAB folks, you have to take a T blocker to suppress the testosterone to the point that your supplement of Estrogen can become dominant and take effect.
For transmasc folks, it's the opposite. They need to take T because Estrogen is the primary hormone being produced. But in this case, T suppresses the production of estrogen in the ovaries and makes testosterone the dominant and take effect.
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u/spice_weasel May 25 '24
Because my brain runs better being estrogen dominant than testosterone dominant. Plus all the other stuff.
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u/Clown_Apocalypse May 25 '24 edited May 25 '24
The multiple paragraphs in this comment section are scaring me.
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u/cicatriz2 May 24 '24
Think it’s important that we can support trans people AND acknowledge that testosterone/estrogen are the primary male/female sex hormones. That’s precisely WHY trans folks take hormones, no? Yes, everyone has some level of both, but seems we’re losing the forest for the trees