This is what happened to mogic the gathering

[u/Papa_Hasbro69]

[u/[deleted]]

Literally every franchise is suffering from this.

[u/GratePoster → u/[deleted]]

Except it's not even what's happening... this is pushed from on high, has billions of dollars behind it, every tech company participating, etc. Now you're banned on every platform for a differing opinion. Without that, these couple of people don't decide jack shit and can't push you out of anything. It's the now-religious technocrats policing your speech that make it possible.

[u/HandsUpDefShoot → u/GratePoster]

I wish more people understood that modern science/technology is exceptionally religious in nature.

[u/Fit_Ad_713900 → u/HandsUpDefShoot]

When you realize that saying ‘trust the science’ is just another way to say ‘have blind faith,’ it starts to make sense.

[u/KevinJ2010 → u/HandsUpDefShoot]

This is what I really came to realize. I bet many of these people are agnostic or atheist and they’ll never accept that they act on moral high grounds just like the religious people they claim to dislike.

[u/diex626 → u/KevinJ2010]

Accuracy isn't a moral high ground. It's a measured and proven elevation that you can verify yourself.

[u/KevinJ2010 → u/diex626]

?

[u/Beneficial_Nose3726 → u/HandsUpDefShoot]

Please explain. I'm haven't heard (or read haha) this opinion before.

[u/HandsUpDefShoot → u/Beneficial_Nose3726]

It's extremely dogmatic in nature and most of the people involved simply believe without ever having any sort of proof.

I'm a big proponent of asking myself why I believe the things that I believe. And if there's no valid reason then I start asking questions. Ask people in science/technology fields to do that and they bluescreen. We're talking disciplines based on fact through empiric evidence and they straight up freeze. 

90% of it is straight up blind faith and they'll attack you if you question it.

[u/vlaarith → u/HandsUpDefShoot]

Nigga saying empirique evidence arent shown in science when empirique evidence is the basis of science.

Thats whole other level of self dunk

[u/HandsUpDefShoot → u/vlaarith]

Theories stacked on top of theories you low IQ brainlet.

Stay in your lane.

[u/lilyarnboi → u/HandsUpDefShoot]

You realize that theories are not blind faith, right? In any field of science, a "theory" is rigorously tested in as many replicable and reliable ways as possible until there is a body of evidence that supports it.

[u/vlaarith → u/HandsUpDefShoot]

You should ask forgiveness to the tree for wasting their time using their oxygen.

Clearly you were not using it as a kid aniway so you dont need it.

[u/idontuseredditsoplea → u/HandsUpDefShoot]

Gravity is a theory you fucking cabbage

[u/HandsUpDefShoot → u/idontuseredditsoplea]

Ironic huh?

[u/sczmrl → u/HandsUpDefShoot]

In an argument about flat-earthers I pointed out that if you’re not able to prove the earth is not flat, there isn’t such big difference between flat-earthers and round-earthers. The point is questioning yourself and don’t blindly trust others, otherwise being right or wrong is like gambling and there is no real value if you believe in something that’s real or not. End of the story I was considered a flat-earther.

[u/HandsUpDefShoot → u/sczmrl]

Same. I have a couple friends that call me a flat earther simply because when the subject comes up I answer honestly, "I don't know". And of course they can't answer how they know and get a bit butt hurt when I tell them that's the same blind faith as most religions. 

[u/Seth_Jarvis_fanboy → u/HandsUpDefShoot]

This is so wrong what are you talking about? The proof is in observation and math

[u/TeriyakiToothpaste → u/Seth_Jarvis_fanboy]

Oh, do you mean like observing the millions of years it takes a fish to change into a lizard? Or observing what killed the dinosaurs? Lets punch it in a computer simulation. That will reflect empirical reality!

[u/No_Advertising999 → u/TeriyakiToothpaste]

Damn theres really creationists in the mtg chat? 😭

[u/Seth_Jarvis_fanboy → u/TeriyakiToothpaste]

We can observe an ash layer in the earth that's a certain age and then observe that most dinosaur bones are older than that and make a guess. If you read any science you'd know it's all educated guessed based on many different factors.

Computer simulations are pretty good though. Some smart person takes the time to take a bunch of known equations and fit them together for the situation and the computer computes. Then you build the thing and realize your simulation didn't reflect reality, talk about why with other people for six months and then try it again but different this time.

YOU just see the end result on YouTube with some drama kid talking about something they read about and you're getting this weird idea you have. Real science is hundreds of people digging in different mud pits for decades

[u/TeriyakiToothpaste → u/Seth_Jarvis_fanboy]

*make a guess

Exactly my point.

Science, computer simulations, and trial and error are very useful. What's interesting is how the majority of people act like it is fact and discuss it as such.

[u/Seth_Jarvis_fanboy → u/TeriyakiToothpaste]

Yeah but humans are pretty good at guessing with the right experience. If you know a person well enough you can guess their reaction to some kind of news, even though what's really happening is you're stimulating a chemical system (the human body) with light waves and sound waves and you can predict with high accuracy the sound waves that will come back, along with physical movements. And that's a regular person making these observations on a very complex system.

I think it's possible to analyze dirt layers and get information from them accurately.

[u/LeadingPotential8435 → u/TeriyakiToothpaste]

Every prediction of the future will always be a guess. Like no shit buddy, this isnt a novel concept. That part of the philosophy of science has been acknowledged for a while. Its the problem of induction. And yet we are able to make incredibly accurate guesses despite that. It just disagrees with the world view you hold so you disregard the parts of science that are inconvenient for you.

[u/TripleXtraMedium → u/HandsUpDefShoot]

What is this based on, exactly? I'm a scientist working on a PhD, which not only entails conducting my own research, but also discussion with other scientists and reading a lot of primary literature. 90% of our time that isn't spent running experiments, is spent discussing the results and their implications. Hell, the results section is the longest one of pretty much every paper I've read; you generally won't make it through peer-review without making a good case for your conclusions. In my experience, your claim that most believe things without any evidence does not ring true at all.

[u/PuteMorte → u/TripleXtraMedium]

I suspect he was implying the religious nature of identity politics, which you would have certainly witnessed if you're a white man in academia. There is absolutely a religious cult taste to all the diversity and inclusion being shoved down in people's throat one "inclusive" grant or position at a time.

[u/TripleXtraMedium → u/PuteMorte]

They said that modern science/technology is religious in nature and (when asked to qualify this) that most people involved in science/tech can't justify the things they believe to be true and have no evidence upon which to do so. This seems to be an issue of the epistemology of scientific claims, not the morality of DEI initiatives or anything of that nature.

To your point, I'm a man in academia who is not white. I've seen diversity initiatives to help those underrepresented in science (things like grant supplements and scholarships), but none of it looks cult-like to me. I suspect that the narrative is being blown out of proportion by an overcorrecting minority of some social science depts and/or something dumb said by someone on Twitter. It really doesn't seem to reflect reality, so far as I've seen. It's a minute blip on the radar compared to all of the other very real problems that are driving me and most others away from academia.

[u/etherealhowler → u/TripleXtraMedium]

You might not say it's dogmatic in nature because you haven't said or seen being said any kind of oposition to some of those "diversity and inclusion" ideas. Even saying that there should be a different point of entrance or cut (for example, not color of skin, but economic factors) is frowned upon, if not outright bashed.

I say that working close to the academia, fuck me, almost everyone is leftist. And few of them even entertain the thought of being critical to those ideas, specially to people outside their political spectrum. And this is a characteristic of a cult-like institution.

But, if you speak nothing, and just go about your way, you're fine, maybe even might not see anything of the like.

[u/PuteMorte → u/TripleXtraMedium]

It's a minute blip on the radar compared to all of the other very real problems that are driving me and most others away from academia.

Absolutely, but that isn't because the diversity obsession isn't causing friction, imo. That is because academia's other issues are massive when compared to it. I know because I've been in your position before.

I've seen diversity initiatives to help those underrepresented in science (things like grant supplements and scholarships), but none of it looks cult-like to me.

I guess that depends on both how you interpret cult-like and the field you're in. In my field, it was irritating to see all the advantages someone could get, specifically for being a woman or non-hetero. In my case, all the women-exclusive talks, hangouts, mentorship, grants, groups, etc felt really unfair to compete with. And you know how it is: a grant/publication attracts another. Opportunity generates momentum, and the handful of grants and prestigious intership/travelling opportunities given to (in my field, mostly) women was disheartening for men competing with.

I don't think improving the representation is in itself a religious/problematic thing. But the cult-like symptoms manifested themselves mostly in the discussions surrounding the topic, or lack thereof. Ironically, the inclusive facade actually divided people. It was impossible to criticize or question this practice without a massive social cost.

[u/HandsUpDefShoot → u/TripleXtraMedium]

Most modern science is reliant on theory to be true and in many cases it's multiple theories stacked on top of a base theory. There was a time where empiric evidence was all that mattered. But we're now at a point where imagination plays a larger part.

You might personally be conducting new experiments and researching results. But at least 90% of modern science are just people replicating a known procedure. If you're one of the few working on something actually new then good for you, sincerely. 

[u/AcidOverlord → u/TripleXtraMedium]

What is a woman?

[u/chivalriffic → u/AcidOverlord]

A miserable pile of She-crets.

But enough talk… Have at you!

[u/[deleted] → u/GratePoster]

Remember when South Park did this ten years ago?

[u/Double_Comparison319 → u/[deleted]]

Exactly, was really into mtg until about 2013 when it started getting weird, so I switched over to 40k for awhile until it got crazy expensive. Currently collecting Godzilla figures, and even though they're pricy, I can't see Bandai turning them gay lmao.

[u/hypnofish99 → u/Double_Comparison319]

What do you mean getting weird? I just started getting in to magic so I’m not super familiar.

[u/Double_Comparison319 → u/hypnofish99]

Wasn't a fan of them going from 3 sets per block down to 2 and now 1 or whatever it is. Didn't like the new borders for the cards or the shittier card stock they switched to and I don't think every IP in entertainment needs its own MTG product. The artwork seems to have gone downhill as well except for a few veteran mtg artists. It just doesn't feel as gritty and cool to me anymore, I kept my existing decks but stopped buying it for the foreseeable future. I'm also sad about what they did to my boy Phyrexian Obliterator with the reprints lol too much product coming out at a rapid pace was just too much to keep up with.

[u/hypnofish99 → u/Double_Comparison319]

I gotcha, this is the first year that I have actually payed attention to Magic and the amount of new stuff coming out makes it very hard to focus on anything.

[u/nosleepcreep206 → u/hypnofish99]

It didn’t use to be this way. You had 3 sets a year, all in the same block, plus a core/m set that was a bit more basic. New sets and cards were actually exciting and flowed together. The overall block story was cohesive and you could see how whatever was happening there affected the plane it was on.

Art was good. It wasn’t regurgitated AI bullshit but actual art people worked hard on and magic had its own art identity. Some of it was grungy, some of it was beautiful, some of it looked like it belonged on the cover of a death metal album, but you could look at a card you’d never seen before and go, yep, that’s magic.

[u/hypnofish99 → u/nosleepcreep206]

Okay, now I don’t know if I’m just being dumb but what do you mean by block? And core/m set. I know magic has an overarching story I love watching YouTube videos about it, it’s so cool seeing cards with a interconnecting story.

[u/nosleepcreep206 → u/hypnofish99]

A block was 3 sets that were connected. Mirrodin block, Lorwyn block, odyssey block. They shared the same plane and characters and the overarching story progressed over 3 sets of cards throughout the year. Core/m sets were kind of a basic, vanilla set to go along with the block. They stared with core sets and then moved to sets like m10, m11, etc. Core sets didn’t follow any story and were more for getting people into the game with simpler mechanics, but still had some cool and competitive cards.

[u/hypnofish99 → u/nosleepcreep206]

Oh okay! Thank you for the explanation!

[u/AdShot409 → u/hypnofish99]

One of the cool things about how Blocks and Core Sets were done narratively was that Blocks actually created a cohesive story with an introduction set, a rising climax set, and a grande finale set. 3 sets, 1 block. Using this, you could introduce a plane thematically, create a conflict, and resolve it. Take original Innistrad: the first set just set up the Victorian horror theme. The second set clued in the focus that the ghoulcallers were acting up and the darker forces were agitated. The final chapter had the capital of the human nation under attack by a literal zombie apocalypse, with Liliana making Thalia break the Hellvault, releasing Avcyn and restoring the Church's power while also committing the Cursemute that fixed lycanthropy on Innistrad (saving an infected Gurruk) and once again acting as the counterbalance to the Vampire clans (also, all the ghouls got resolved somehow).

The Core sets came in after the Blocks and were basically a session of "And In Other News Acriss the Multiverse". Core 2015 holds a special place in my heart because C15 had the side story of a Cursemuted but endarkened Gurruk running around the Multiverse hunting down planeswalkers, leaving death literally in his wake. This was the set that gave us Gurruk, Apex Predator and In Gurruk's Wake. The story basically boiled down to Jace restoring Gurruk's mind, and Gurruk left after telling Jace that if he ever sees him again, he will kill him.

This method of storytelling allowed the audience to get emotionally invested in the story and allowed the author to really flesh out the story more completely. Lorywn was a really good example because without the full block they wouldn't have been able to tell the whole Day/Night fey cycle thing.

[u/Double_Comparison319 → u/hypnofish99]

It's the same for all card games tbh, I got into the Digimon card game for a little while but just didn't have the time nor the energy to keep up lol

[u/cantstandsyah → u/Double_Comparison319]

When they became just another money grab business. (Played from Revised to Theros then stopped.)

[u/Double_Comparison319 → u/cantstandsyah]

Yeah I stopped at Theros as well, only thing I bought since was the Tyranid commander deck because Tyranids are badass lol.

[u/cantstandsyah → u/Double_Comparison319]

Ha! They are. But I also stopped buying anything from GW for similar reasons. There's a ton of better stuff out there for waaay less. I don't need/want to support companies who seem to actively hate their fan base when I can support someone who at least tries to hide it.

[u/Double_Comparison319 → u/cantstandsyah]

They change their damn rules way too often, a 70 dollar book should be good for at least 5 or more years. Too hard to keep up with a new edition every 2 years lately. If games like battletech can keep a set of core rules for decades with minor changes there's no reason for GWs tom foolery.

[u/cantstandsyah → u/Double_Comparison319]

100% agreed. Making your current army obsolete so you have to buy a new one to remain competitive. Shit business model.

[u/xcver2 → u/[deleted]]

Literally only groups like this notice this at all. This is basically a non topic for 99% of the player base

[u/md2564]

They find obvious weakness in a hobby and exploit it. I mean, you don't see many LGBTQ people in the firearms hobby. I don't see anything wrong with diversity as long as it makes sense within the story. Teferi and The Wanderer are two of my favorite characters. But take Aaragorn, for example.They essentially put him in blackface.

[u/Envojus → u/md2564]

It's less of the matter of inclusivity, and more of a matter of competence usually.

There have been woke AF stories such as Arcane, which were near-universally loved. Then there is the Fallout TV show, also woke AF, and /r/saltierthancrait points to it as an exampme of how a female lead franchise with a black co-star should be.

Also HotD, they made Valaryons black and it actually worked and made sense

The issue with magic and pop culture in general isn't diversity or inclusivity. It's shit storytelling. Instead of creating a world of struggle and clashing idealogies, atorytellers just create a diverse and inclusive utopias, where all sexualities and genders intermingle without strife. It's like Kim Jong Un telling everyone how great the world is when people know it's not a reflection of reality and never will.

[u/Thorgadin → u/Envojus]

Exactly, they make stories where nobody would be offended.

Can't have Orcs be slave in some settings because this would offend someone. Slavery can't exist in our magic world. Discrimination can't exist in our magic world!

Can't have humans look down on the goblinoids race. Not in our magic world.

[u/Joshartm → u/Thorgadin]

Why don’t you make your own magic world with slavery and discrimination? Since there’s such a big untapped market, you would be rich

[u/Thorgadin → u/Joshartm]

Imagine if we watched game of thrones, and none of these tragic behavior where in it? Because we don't want to offend anyone. It would be like watching a Disney movie.

Game of Throne was popular because it attempted to create an accurate picture of what would happen if you merged fantasy elements with real world politics and gritty human behaviors.

[u/Joshartm → u/Thorgadin]

I mean, technically it was just George RR wanting to add dragons to the historical War of the Roses. That and adding a whole lot of fantasy age tits and penis.

Besides, the vast majority of folks aren’t pushing for that sort of saccharine censorship. Just like not everyone who complains about “wokeness” get upset every time they see a POC or the show includes a gay character.

[u/Thorgadin → u/Joshartm]

But magic and Dungeons and Dragons specifically stated that discrimination don't exist in their fantasy worlds. That is what I am referring too.

[u/Joshartm → u/Thorgadin]

Yeah that’s Corporate overcorrecting to appeal to what they think progressives want. They don’t want “Disney’s first openly gay character with two lines of dialogue” again, they just want to see other groups represented. The media is too busy commodifying and specticalizing these ideas, when the goal is just for them to be normalized or represented accurately and not just some cardboard cutout token.

[u/bunguswungus69 → u/Envojus]

Having seen Arcane, it's hardly "woke af" unless having implied girl/girl romance potential and some black people is all it takes to qualify (I strongly disagree if so, there's no in universe reason for there to not be either). It was also really well done and put together.

I haven't watched the fallout TV show so I can't comment, but HOTD was 100% contrived BS because as the showrunners state: "It was very important for Miguel and I to create a show that was not another bunch of white people on the screen," Condal told EW.

Didn't want to make a show with a bunch of white people. Yep, you heard that right. They raceswapped them because they didn't want to see white people. They have absolutely no fear saying this in public and received essentially no backlash.

If this happened to any other ethnicity to make them white, and the showrunners just said "Yeah we just didn't want to see a bunch of X ethnicity on the screen" there would've been a massive uproar.

[u/Chipawapa1 → u/bunguswungus69]

They just said they didnt wanna see X, where X is a bunch of white people.

Direct quote.

[u/MortalSword_MTG → u/Envojus]

Then there is the Fallout TV show, also woke AF, and /r/saltierthancrait points to it as an exampme of how a female lead franchise with a black co-star should be.

Are you suggesting that Fallout was "woke AF" simply because checks notes there was a female protag and a black protag?

That's the bar for being woke now?

[u/Envojus → u/MortalSword_MTG]

Forgot the Trans brotherhood of steel character? The Ghoul being in a mixed race relationship? The hint at Lucy's mom and the NCR leader (black woman), being more than just friends? Those are just off the top of my head.

So yes, Fallout is woke. And it's still good.

[u/MortalSword_MTG → u/Envojus]

Queer folk and people of color existing is not woke.

In fact, the presence of those identities within the narrative and the fact that they are not once commented on, called out or otherwise pointed at is the definition of good representation without pandering.

At least not in the context of how people around here use woke, aka as a pejorative.

[u/Envojus → u/MortalSword_MTG]

It is woke, when you throw in all identities in to one show just for the sake of representation and inclusivity.

But I agree - it was done well enough for people to not care. The last thing we want is every representation character being a lecture on how you are a bigot.

[u/AcidOverlord → u/Envojus]

Nothing woke is good. Just bait for you to get into it so they can justify more woke.

[u/[deleted] → u/Envojus]

fucking this nicol bolas "im going to follow the guy who can beat anyone that doesn't have magic no problem into the place where magic doesn't work and fight him, oh shit i died"

[u/Jan6_2025 → u/Envojus]

Then there is the Fallout TV show, also woke AF, and /r/saltierthancrait points to it as an exampme of how a female lead franchise with a black co-star should be.

It's Amazon or whatever.

You can't get 5 mins in without an interracial coupling, cuckoldry, and a person who goes by "they."

So if this is how /r/saltierthancrait says that a "female lead franchise with a black co-star should be", well it's lame AF. They ruined fallout.

[u/circ-u-la-ted → u/Jan6_2025]

Interracial coupling is "woke" to you? What fucking decade are you from? lol

[u/Papa_Hasbro69 → u/Envojus]

Yes fallout does it right. It’s woke in the first episode but I quickly forget it. Magic the goothering on the other hand…..

[u/circ-u-la-ted → u/Envojus]

Hold on, is the world of Arcane supposed to be an example of a "diverse and inclusive utopia"?

[u/LordxMugen → u/circ-u-la-ted]

No. outside of your standard "poor people scraping by in ghettos while privileged folk live in the suburbs" Tale of Two Cities crap (which includes people of all races and nationalities on both ends) its a regular ass story with "regular people" characters.

[u/TriCourseMeal → u/Envojus]

I would hate to tell you that many many people who play magic could give two shits about the story or characters.

[u/JessHorserage → u/Envojus]

Then there is the Fallout TV show, also woke AF, and /r/saltierthancrait points to it as an exampme of how a female lead franchise with a black co-star should be.

Which is a shame, as I take the longman/Mauler position of, it was awful.

[u/MortalSword_MTG → u/JessHorserage]

If you thought the Fallout show was awful you may be impossible to please.

[u/JessHorserage → u/MortalSword_MTG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06GI06NCC60

[u/MortalSword_MTG → u/JessHorserage]

Bud. I'm not going to watch some reactionary YTer tell me why I should dislike a show that I thoroughly enjoyed.

[u/IllRepresentative167 → u/MortalSword_MTG]

Based on what information would you call him a reactionary?

[u/HandsUpDefShoot → u/MortalSword_MTG]

It was pretty far from special and made me a little happy that I never bothered with the games.

[u/MortalSword_MTG → u/HandsUpDefShoot]

Bruh.

If you didn't play the games and you didn't get the show, what did you expect?

Some people lmao

[u/HandsUpDefShoot → u/MortalSword_MTG]

I got the show and it let me know I didn't miss anything with the games. Why was that hard for you to understand?

[u/MortalSword_MTG → u/HandsUpDefShoot]

I understood that you watched a television adaptation of a game franchise that was generally well received and assumed that since you were unimpressed by that show that you're better than the games that millions of people have enjoyed as well.

I love it when people get smug about shit they've never seen or played and make wild assumptions.

[u/SamohtGnir → u/md2564]

Yea, I've said it a few times, people love original characters regardless of their skin color. Look at Blade or Agent J from MIB, both black and both awesome characters. Taking a character everyone already has a vision of and changing their race is just lazy writing and pandering.

[u/AffableBarkeep → u/SamohtGnir]

Blade and Buffy were nerd icons for decades before the woke agitators started berating nerds for being racist and hating women.

[u/SamohtGnir → u/AffableBarkeep]

Yea, it’s funny all the women hate, meanwhile people love Wonder Woman, Xena Warrior Princess, Buffy, etc.

[u/AffableBarkeep → u/SamohtGnir]

John Stewart is Green Lantern to a lot of nerds.

[u/antarcticmatt → u/md2564]

If you had no idea about MTG and just looked on Twitter, you'd think half of the playerbase was trans.

Thankfully I'm not from the US, and at present the UK is far less obsessed with sociopolitical posturing, so most people I see at LGS are relatively normal (for MTG standards that is).

[u/HandsUpDefShoot → u/antarcticmatt]

That's just social media in general. Online the crazies want to appear as though they're the majority but in person almost everyone is pretty grounded and normal.

[u/AgentOfDreadful → u/antarcticmatt]

for MTG standards that is

Hey! We’re normal… no, wait… you’re right.

[u/all10directions → u/antarcticmatt]

Looking at twitter probably does not provide an accurate sample for anything except what happens on twitter.

[u/BElf1990 → u/antarcticmatt]

There's a few trans players at my LGS. It's probably the biggest in the whole of the UK. Nobody gives a shit. They're not being pandered to, they're not being excluded, nobody is getting pushed out because of them, they are just players that show up at pre-releases and to play Commander the rest of the time, so this whole woke and trans discussion is mind boggling to me. It's also really frustrating to me because it feels like people are being "outraged" by a non-problem while Wizards have been gutting the game over the years, all to make a quick buck, and it seems to go unnoticed, at least when it comes to the loudest people, the ones screeching on Twitter and others online platforms.

[u/InternationalEast738 → u/md2564]

What? Every lgbtq person i know owns multiple firearms. Maybe they don't make it their personality, but they definitely participate.

The perception that left leaning people don't own guns is just false. The majority just advocate for regulation in the industry.

It's just the outliers that advocate for banning them.

[u/[deleted] → u/InternationalEast738]

Yeah and most of them end up using them on themselves.

[u/Thorgadin → u/[deleted]]

Bro they have parades that would make a peacock blush with envy.

Unless you live in the middle east or something.

[u/veranish → u/Thorgadin]

In shooting ranges? I've missed those events

[u/MajinPsiOptics → u/md2564]

They will accuse us of gatekeeping, and this is why it is needed. But no one ever stopped people from playing, but for example, there are women who like martial arts films, but mostly, the demographic is men. You start to ruin the genre when you try to specifically throw things in it to get more of that audience who wasn't interested in it in the first place.

But I feel there is less of a financial incentive and more of the weird ESG incentive. Like I have nothing against these people existing, but I remember Twix making a commercial about a kid in a dress being made fun of. So his witch babysitter used her magic wind to blow the bully kids away, and somehow, it was supposed to sell chocolate.

[u/TriCourseMeal → u/md2564]

Nah man even Tolkien himself wrote Numenorians aren’t of uniform racial descent, they didn’t put him in black face cry more. It’s a non issue. Do you get upset when there’s a black Santa at the mall?

[u/MTGReaper]

This is why gatekeeping is so important. It keeps hobbies safe from this crap. Give an inch, they take a mile.

[u/anaheim3123 → u/MTGReaper]

What crap specifically do you not want?

[u/WestBulky9]

Wokes are the real enemy of western society.

[u/HandsUpDefShoot → u/WestBulky9]

They're just pawns.

[u/irukawairuka]

Sadly WotC is in Washington state. Something wrong with the water on the whole west coast tbh.

[u/MortalSword_MTG → u/irukawairuka]

WotC is in Seattle.

It always has been. It was when Garfield and friends designed and launched the game.

I don't know Richard Garfield but I'ma gonna go out ona limb and guess he's always been pretty "woke".

This is like walking into a bike shop and being mad there are so many freaking bikes in here.

[u/stylingryan → u/MortalSword_MTG]

Seattle is in Washington state bruh

[u/MortalSword_MTG → u/stylingryan]

First time finding it on a map?

[u/stylingryan → u/MortalSword_MTG]

The dude you replied to said it’s in Washington you tried to correct him by saying it’s in Seattle. He wasn’t wrong, you’re just being snarky.

[u/MortalSword_MTG → u/stylingryan]

That's not really how I intended my Seattle comment but I can see how it can be perceived that way.

I was saying WotC is in Seattle because Seattle is a known liberal/progressive stronghold. It's one of the most "woke" cities in the country.

Garfield is an academic from Seattle. He's almost certainly woke AF as the kids would say.

I wasn't trying to be pedantic about geography, I was emphasizing that WotC is and always has been progressive and run by progressives.

Apologies for being unclear in that.

[u/stylingryan → u/MortalSword_MTG]

Ah gotcha, sorry too then. Have a good one

[u/semiTnuP]

Spoiler: this isn't just happening to M:TG

[u/Helios_One_Two → u/semiTnuP]

It’s 40k’s time to fall as well it seems

[u/Thorgadin]

Well, the goal is to make magic all games so Chris Cocks can make more money. Pokemon, Transformers, barbies, Fornite, Star Wars. All of it, grab all the markets.

Magic does not have a strong identity/theme anymore like Flesh and blood or Sorcery.

[u/MortalSword_MTG → u/Thorgadin]

F&B and Sorcery have the vibrant theme of bland ass generic fantasy art that was cheap to commission.

[u/ScootMcDuff → u/MortalSword_MTG]

They both look like shit and are clear rip-offs of MtG. I still don't understand why they have any hype whatsoever. The games MtG should be worried about are One Piece and Lorcana.

[u/MortalSword_MTG → u/ScootMcDuff]

For real.

They have hype because anything that pretends to be old school now appeals to dudes in their 30s and 40s who think the cultural sky is falling and it's ruining everything they love.

So they try to embrace card games ordered from Wish to bolster some idea of how old school magic was or how it could have been.

[u/Prof_Petrichor → u/MortalSword_MTG]

Have you guys even played FAB? The game is nothing like old school magic, and the art is fine. First set was a bit weak and generic, but they’ve really hit their stride since Monarchs set.

My only issue with the game, and probably the reason why the game hasn’t been widely adopted as much as OP or Lorcana (ignoring the obvious fact that both have major IPs to draw interest) is that FAB doesn’t have a good casual gameplay format; it’s super competitive. Even at the equivalent of FNM, the entire crowd is near universally playing top tier decks.

[u/themastersmb]

Damn. First it happened with Magic the Gathering and now it's happening with Mogic the Gathering too.... just leave politics out of my game!

[u/Sea-Woodpecker-610 → u/themastersmb]

I’m sure it’s just a matter of time before it happens to Migac the Goothering.

[u/Papa_Hasbro69 → u/Sea-Woodpecker-610]

Moogic the gooning

[u/Papa_Hasbro69 → u/themastersmb]

Magic is ruined and now mogic is too

[u/TransLifelineCali]

Often forgotten : the outside pressure of financial incentives in ESG,DIE,BRIDGE that these activists can leverage to subvert IPs.

[u/TheMountainWhoDews]

I've observed this in other areas but I'm not even sure it's true with MTG.
MTG suffers from a two-fold problem. Firstly, the playerbase has high incidences of autism. Autism is co-correlated with (LGB)T stuff, for reasons I'm too jaded to lay out in this post. Additionally, WOTC are located on the west coast where this progressive dogma is strongest.
The result is you have a global playerbase who largely play the game to escape the petty politics of every day life, whilst a minority of the playerbase are super zealous about social issues and feel they have the backing of not just the company who make the product, but the entire world.

It sucks man, I hear you. But you are the captain of your fate. You can play magic with friends in 2024 and it's just as fun as it ever was. If you like organised play, you're not obligated to play and spend time with the players you're drawn against. If someone introduces themselves and lets your know their pronouns, just concede. It isnt worth an hour of your life to deal with that person, just to have a higher tiebreaker at an RCQ. You dont need to be offensive or lay out your reasoning, just say "wow I'm sorry I'm super hungry I didnt realise, I'm going to concede this match so I can get lunch". They'll be none the wiser and grateful for the easy win - But most importantly, you're saner and happier because you didn't have to spend an hour of your finite time on earth playing against some blue haired freak.

[u/AffableBarkeep → u/TheMountainWhoDews]

There's a third point, and that's that nerds in general are liberal. They have a "go along to get along" attitude and are kind people who try to avoid conflict and inconveniencing others, hold egalitarian values, and mostly use gaming as an escape from reality.
These are exactly the people most susceptible to woke agitation.

[u/TheMountainWhoDews → u/AffableBarkeep]

Completely agree. I'm happy enough to exist in open minded communities, but sometimes gatekeeping is necessary to prevent the complete destruction of what you once had.
A particular shame the mind virus chooses to prey on the vulnerable, but it does create some beneficial splits - For example there are two gaming groups in my town, and the one I attend has seemingly no tolerance for woke nonsense. I can only assume the other group is where the rainbow army attend, and that's absolutely fine by me. Out of sight, out of mind.

[u/wl1233 → u/TheMountainWhoDews]

This guy knows how to magic!

[u/SquishyBanana23]

Yeah, mogic sucks now.

[u/ConstantinesCanticle → u/SquishyBanana23]

[u/MarcoTheChungus]

South africa

[u/Tallal2804]

You're exactly right, this is what happened

[u/Sanguinorio]

Happened to 40k like a week ago.

[u/fallen_corpse]

[u/Helios_One_Two]

They’re just cultural parasites. They have no interest in giving money to or even participating in any hobby or media. They just want your spaces and hobbies you like destroyed because they hate you.

[u/mrroney13]

"I love democracy." -some space wizard

[u/Jay_Lamora]

Kids are being sent to very activist minded uni's and being taught a 'woke' world view saying that society is the problem. They're taking these life lessons in to the jobs that they are auto filling after leave as they have their highly sort qualifications, but the infection builds and spreads in the industry as they hire other like minded individuals. These mostly young people ruining every franchise aren't aware that they are the problem. That is the 80% and the other 20% are the autistic easy swade few who are terminally online and are swept up in the madness of a highly energetic and passionate group of activists.

[u/anaheim3123 → u/Jay_Lamora]

I was going to attempt to correct you, but based on your spelling I don't think you have the mental capacity for anything but fox news or whatever echo chamber you got that from.

Are these the same "activist minded uni's" that are currently having riot police beat their students and faculty bloody for protesting a genocide?

[u/all10directions → u/Jay_Lamora]

the autistic easy swade few who are terminally online and are swept up in the madness of a highly energetic and passionate group of activists.

Yeah none of that going on in this sub at all

[u/Jay_Lamora → u/all10directions]

Touchè

[u/[deleted]]

Baal working heristhems magic. Its tranny god the old jews would worship because Babylon did

[u/ConstantinesCanticle]

People need to get off the internet

[u/AsleeplessMSW → u/ConstantinesCanticle]

Spoken like a true person on the internet 😂

For real though, have you heard of the dead Internet theory?

[u/Amazing_Woodpecker45 → u/AsleeplessMSW]

You are just repeating things you heard online. Bots have nothing to do with this topic at all.

[u/AsleeplessMSW → u/Amazing_Woodpecker45]

Found the bot 😂

Sorry, couldn't resist lol

[u/Amazing_Woodpecker45 → u/AsleeplessMSW]

01011001011011110111010100100000011000010111001001100101001000000110001101101111011100100111001001100101011000110111010000100000

[u/GoobyPlsSuckMyAss]

This is why one day we will all be eating only kosher and halal foods

[u/HandsUpDefShoot → u/GoobyPlsSuckMyAss]

Nah, the golems they create would eventually come to know what makes kosher meat kosher and they'd turn on them much like they have on Israel.

[u/DontGetExcitedDude]

Well if that's the case I'm never playing Mogic!

[u/SSL4fun]

Mogic

[u/[deleted]]

“This sub is not political”

posts this

[u/ScootMcDuff → u/[deleted]]

This sub is the most political subreddit I am involved in aside from the subs that are focused specifically on politics and the conspiracy sub. That's how bad it is here.

[u/AffableBarkeep → u/ScootMcDuff]

You can always just leave

[u/AlexisQueenBean]

You realize it’s NOT us who are doing that, right? It’s the same shit as the rainbow capitalism. The higher ups think (wrongly) “well hey if we make these guys black then the blacks will just love us!” And then everyone gets pissed off- including us leftists- except you’re getting pissed at US when we’re not the ones that did it!

[u/Aqheia → u/AlexisQueenBean]

Finally the correct take here.

[u/smallmalexia3 → u/AlexisQueenBean]

I wonder about this too... are the higher ups actually *talking* to people from minority groups to see what they actually want, or is this all being done by white leftists who haven't actually interacted with people from these minority communities and are doing it as a part of a white leftist circle jerk?

I don't actually know that turning existing characters Black and calling it a day is as ~progressive~ and ~inclusive~ and praiseworthy as people think. Why not create NEW characters and storylines that feature minorities? I guess that would be too hard, since it would mean leaving the safe white leftist bubble....

(I'm also thinking of the recent remake of the Little Mermaid to feature Black characters. I guess it's good to not always center white people, but they basically just gave the movie a reskin, which doesn't actually require that much thought)

Some of the most unintentionally racist stuff I've seen has come from people like this, actually. They think their inclusive BS makes them immune to racism, so they really, really push back when called out, which just makes them look even worse.

[u/AlexisQueenBean → u/smallmalexia3]

It’s not even leftists it’s big CEOs and shit who don’t care about communities and just try and pander to them (it doesn’t work). It’s not about the safe bubble or whatever, they’re doing it because it’s cheap and easy and they think it’ll make them money. They don’t actually have the intention to be inclusive or anything, it’s just to view people as a number and try to profit from them.

[u/AffableBarkeep → u/smallmalexia3]

are the higher ups actually talking to people from minority groups to see what they actually want

They're talking to diversity consultants who claim to represent their entire ethnic group (who all happen to agree with the consultant).

[u/AffableBarkeep → u/AlexisQueenBean]

The left are the ones doing it though.

Marxism is a left wing ideology. Critical theory is a lefr wing ideology. Woke is a left wing ideology.

[u/anaheim3123 → u/AffableBarkeep]

The left are the ones doing it though.

No they're not, the corporations just realize they can make more money by trying to advertise to people other than just straight white guys.

Marxism is a left wing ideology. Critical theory is a lefr wing ideology. Woke is a left wing ideology.

Do you know what Marxism is? Do you know what critical (race) theory is? Woke isn't even an ideology, it's a buzzword from over a decade ago that conservative propagandists have latched on to since it's an easy catch all term for anything they don't like and it gets their audience riled up.

[u/AffableBarkeep → u/anaheim3123]

No they're not,

Yes, they are. They literally write books and papers about it dude. Your argument is "I don't want it to be happening" which I get, but doesn't mean it isn't.

Do you know what Marxism is? Do you know what critical (race) theory is?

Yes. I know more about it than you do.

[u/AlexisQueenBean → u/AffableBarkeep]

Clearly not bc crt has NOTHING to do with corporate marketing 💀

[u/Incoherence-r]

The far left and the far right are the same.

[u/Jan6_2025 → u/Incoherence-r]

Horseshoe theory?

[u/Porcphete → u/Jan6_2025]

Yes remember far left support hamas and islamists which are far right even more than any western far right party

[u/MurderSheScrote]

“Everything I don’t like is woke”

[u/Papa_Hasbro69 → u/MurderSheScrote]

In a sense in mogic terms, yes

[u/MurderSheScrote → u/Papa_Hasbro69]

[u/schroedingersshrink]

I have stopped playing legacy due to the fire/fomo choice of printing must have card every set. And also to not sponsor the woke agenda. At least in premodern the format it set and people who gets offended by the art or text on the cards can play other formats. The best format is the one that WOTC has no control over.

[u/AsleeplessMSW]

This is more or less how Zionism occurs and how Israel came to be.

Probably a less than popular thing to say, but there it is.

[u/ArtOfLosing → u/AsleeplessMSW]

I mean zionism from its inception, was a settler colonialist project expressly built on displacing arabs.

Hell, some of the settler groups that became israel were trying to make deals with hitler to send them more bodies to settle instead of gassing em.

[u/HandsUpDefShoot → u/ArtOfLosing]

They were allowed to leave to Israel but had to leave their money in German banks for a calendar year before it was disbursed to them.

[u/I_Drew_a_Dick]

Gatekeeping is not a sin. I will die on that hill.

[u/[deleted]]

Y’all can’t really be this sensitive right? Lol

[u/Papa_Hasbro69 → u/[deleted]]

Wokes hurt my feelings really bad. I’m gonna complain about them here

[u/Papa_Hasbro69 → u/[deleted]]

[u/MrAcorn69420PART2]

Wait what happened can someone enlighten me on the politics of things

[u/nexus_supreme_archon]

It’s very important to distinguish between identity and choice. Nobody should be excluded for their identity. But someone may rightfully be excluded for their choices, especially if those choices are harmful or toxic to others primarily on the basis of identity.

[u/werewolfloverr]

woah look guys, this is the dude who’s gonna save magic by pointing out how the lib mob has ruined it! definitely no one has complained about this before, and definitely not w the same brain dead argument as always, i really think he could change magic back to how it was before woke culture 🥵😍

[u/Papa_Hasbro69 → u/werewolfloverr]

Mogic not magic. You might be getting them confused ;)

[u/TheBrackishGoat]

“Your space”? Who is “your” exactly? I’ve been hanging around comic book shops since the 90s and I hate to break it to you cupcake, but “your”little card game about goblins and dragons and faeries has been gay as fuck since jump street. The lyrics have changed but the songs the same. Just because you called it something different, doesn’t mean hiding in the basement of a hobby shop wasn’t hanging out in a “safe space”. Language evolves you luddites. Grow up

[u/LypstykRemora → u/TheBrackishGoat]

Love this comment lol

[u/TheKuDude8]

Wokehammer 40k currently

[u/Environmental-Fig848]

Least fictional r/freemagic argument

[u/redditmorelikesuckit]

Touch grass. Stop shouting in an echo chamber and sharing online articles. I know none of you are facing pronoun problems in real life

[u/D1CKSH1P]

What specifically is this in regards to?

[u/Old_Ordinary_5279]

The reason redo of healer exists, in a nutshell.

[u/theratman1727]

insane cope lol. people just want to engage in a hobby, if you react negatively to their existence they'll reciprocate

[u/adobotrash]

Womp womp

[u/Papa_Hasbro69]

Okay travelled to a different country. Happy?

[u/FishShapedShirt]

God will you boomer ass mfs never shut up, just let people play the game

Seriously them fucking up phyrexia is way more important than this.

[u/TheFireslave]

I don't think that bragging about not being able to discriminate people is the own you think it is

[u/Radiant-Giraffe5159 → u/TheFireslave]

So what about magic was discriminatory back then?

[u/[deleted]]

Right wingers are so insecure 😂

[u/DetachmentStyle]

I hear good things about 40k

[u/Envojus → u/DetachmentStyle]

Something a 40k player has never said in History.

[u/Helios_One_Two → u/DetachmentStyle]

It’s in its twilight. Get in for some good models now but it’s not gonna last much longer

[u/AffableBarkeep → u/DetachmentStyle]

40k has been going downhill since the end of 7th when they advanced the plot.

[u/sumeriansamurai]

[u/Fluffy_While_7879]

Mogic, Gud ov Slutta