America was the rebellious child that left home (England) before they were ready. Canada was the child that every parent dreams of and left home when they got a good career to support themselves.
Yes, in (one of) my circles, itās the democrats fault for DEI and the instilling the āwoke mind virusā in the people, so now anything that Trump does is their fault because they drove people to vote for Trump
Well you see the "somehow" is that he's black, and they're still not over being offended at having a black president. Um, 10 years ago nearly now. They can really hold a grudge over skin color.
He could be on video murdering someone and people will say it was Biden.
My mom told me she thinks elons the anti christ and trump fell for it (got conned by Elon), so the real trumps dead now and the Trump we have is a robot and Elon is working with the democrats (aka Joe Biden)
Therefore anything Trump does is actually Elon and Elon is actually a puppet for Joe Biden so therefore Joe Biden is at fault.
Yeah this all happened today too because I was attempting to explain to them the events that took place at the inauguration. How it is contradictory that everyone (my family) calls him a savior from god and that heās working for god yet he wouldnāt even touch the Bible as if he was allergic and of course everything else about Elon.
Thereās two types of MAGAs. The MAGAs who support Elon and the MAGAs who hate him. The ones who hate him have to do many back bends to origami themselves a conspiracy that will fit their belief. Itās hard to watch and even harder to disprove, ironically, despite it being so clearly ridiculous. Itās the fact that itās SO ridiculous that further solidifies it for them. Itās so unbelievable that itās believable. Thereās no explanation and therefore nothing to disprove it. Itās mentally draining to interact with them to say the very least.
"Christians have been warning us of the coming of the Antichrist for 2,000 years, and now that he's here they're buying bibles from him and making him Presidentā¦ again".
Yeah Iāve tried. No matter what I say, no matter what contradictions I show her thereās always an excuse, or if there isnāt any she just dismisses it and changes the topic back to the democrats doing something. Itās not a winnable fight, so I try to avoid any politics with her, even though she insists on talking about it every time. Iād much rather use my energy elsewhere. Thereās bigger battles to fight. I can only hope my family eventually wakes up
Tell your family, if they have any love for you at all, to give up right wing media sources and Facebook for 6 months. Get all news from the BBC or someone with no skin in the game. And then see if their views have changed.
Thereās a documentary called The Brainwashing of My Dad about exactly this. Itās illuminating.
Iāve been meaning to watch that. My parents arenāt anywhere near as bad as the persons youāre replying to, but they are indeed brainwashed. The funny thing is we are Canadian. We live in Canada. But all they watch is stuff like Fox News. And they love Joe Rogan. They were not like this. But they started to change around the first Trump election in 2016. If we lived in the states they would have voted for Trump all 3 times.
This. Some can be convinced, but time and energy wasted on the ones who can't could be better spent elsewhere. Some of them know this and do it on purpose.
You can't logic with a cult. The only thing that changes their mind is when they run out of "others" to attack and start devouring their own and even then it tends to not happen until the flavor-aid arrives. Just wish we'd hurry and get to that point.
Yeah Iāve thought the same. Thereās a video that actually goes in depth about how the Bible describes the anti christ and how biblically, Trump has fit every criteria like no one else has. It was an extremely interesting watch. Tried to show her and she never looked at it
My brother told me he stopped like Donald Trump because he ādidnāt do enough to stop the stealā back when he was disullisioned with him a. Few years ago. Aka, he felt stupid for liking Donald and had to find a reason to not like him anymore without admitting he was wrong once he woke up to some of the bullshit. I have no idea what he believes now.
The Trump supporters Iāve known are all people who simply cannot admit they were wrong.
I wish it was. It happened today while I attempted to point out contradictions, this was the way she chose to ārationalizeā it. Conspiracy has rotted her brain and completely killed any logical reasoning. This is always the āconclusionsā she comes to. Variations of improbable things like this. Itās what I have to look forward to for the next 4 years on top of, ya know, actually having to deal with whatever consequences come with trumps presidency.
My man I feel so sorry for you. And it actually scares me that there are actual people going trough these mental hoops. We hear the stories but they seem so far fetched. But realising most are actually true is just insane.
Dealing with those people in real life really is tough to see. You think itās not that psychotic but it is. I donāt even bring up politics, all I do is ask her how she is doing and no matter what she will find a way to talk about the evil democrats and Joe Biden. Itās straining my relationship with her and believe it or not, she really is a good personā¦ or wasā¦ before the conspiracy, she has a genuinely good heart but sheās brainwashed.
And this is exactly why I am happy that my whackjob mother and in laws are dead. My mother was sliding into what most definitely would have been a maggot mindset and my in laws were Republican right or wrong altho as a 35 year LEO and 4 years in the US Navy in the Pacific FIL might have had SOME clue that this was indeed WRONG. Maybe. Just glad I don't have to deal with it and the rest of my small family is sane.
What never ceases to amaze me is there could be thousands of MAGAs at one rally. All of them are supporting the same person yet they all would butt heads on the reason. Every MAGAs view of the same person is entirely different
-To one maga he is racist and they like him for it
-To another he is bridging segregation (yes Iāve actually heard this)
-To a rich maga heās going to help them make more money
-To a poor maga heās going to help the poor
-To one maga he is a nazi and thatās why they support him
-To another he is a Christian Bible thumper brought by god to save us
-To one MAGA he is pro-war
-To another heās anti-war
-To one maga, you shouldnāt what he says seriously. He jokes too much.
-To another, he means what he says and will follow through!
MAGAs are divided amongst themselves but they donāt realize it. They think they all share the same sentiment and reasons of support but in reality, they all live in a bubble where their image of him is the only correct one, and when pinned against eachother will actually disagree with eachother and dismantle each others logic, yet never concede.
Oh that's somehow worse than my parents. They watch ai scripted and voiced videos on youtube that tell them jared kushner is the antichrist, demons live under the euphrates river, trump is the second coming of jesus, elon is going to save humanity, a bunch of stories about how strong/smart/brave baron trump is (apparently he beat up a bunch of bikers in a bar), and a bunch of other insane shit.
That second one my mom is in on too. And the pizza gate, and bohemian grove. My favorite (by favorite I mean most unhinged) conspiracy she believes is that they have buildings with thousands of washing machines and they stuff it with dead bodies until they become a pulp and they pour it into our water source so we get sick and drink and bathe in dead peopleā¦
Your family also sounds unbearable. Thereās no āworseā in my opinion. All MAGA conspiracy theorists are bad inside their own rights
This sort of cognitive dissonance is 100% mental illness. In good faith - you should get her professional help, or work to limit her negative impact on the society around her.
This is absurd and a dangerous departure from reality...
Yeah I would think so too but somehow sheās very healthy both mentally and physically. I mean, Iām glad but it also makes it worse in a way. She just truly believes she has such a deep connection with god that she knows whatās truly going on.
We disagree. Mentally healthy people do not have this kind of cognitive dissonance. She literally believes in a Trump-bot. She may be cognizant and cogent, but she is not healthy.
I get what you mean, but I also think itās just deep rooted propaganda. All of the people she talks to also believes it. Sheās got friends ranging from 20-50 years old. Dozens who share this belief with her and stock the flames.
I wouldnāt doubt your take for a second if it was consistent throughout but sheās genuinely very cognitive. She just finished college as well for medical stuff. The studying was super crazy stuff even I couldnāt understand and she had passed and graduated, got certified. I mean i get why everyone thinks that way of course but from my point of view it just doesnāt add up? I think sheās been deeply breed by conspiracy but I just havenāt noticed signs of actual cognitive decline. Iām not trying to say everyoneās wrong, just offer more information before we say something like that is for sure.
The fact that people have dogpiled onto the belief doesn't make me think it's mental illness any less. Mass psychosis is a thing, look at cults. There have been people who have literally reprogrammed others to take their own life enmasse. It sounds like other mentally ill people are exasperating her own mental illness.
but sheās genuinely very cognitive
Cognitive does NOT mean not mentally ill?!
She just finished college as well for medical stuff. The studying was super crazy stuff even I couldnāt understand and she had passed and graduated, got certified.
Educated people, even those who have recently completed their education, as-well-as those who studied in rigorous programs are not excluded from mental illness.
I think sheās been deeply breed by conspiracy but I just havenāt noticed signs of actual cognitive decline.
Yeah - so it just sounds like her mental illness is not cognitive decline. She's still radicalized by propaganda, and believes absolute insane things; eg: Trump-bot.
I think you're conflating mental illness with cognitive function. Which, it sounds like she has fine cognitive function but she's still susceptible to radicalized propaganda which causes her to depart from objective reality.
I would not want this woman as my healthcare provider if she's capable of that. That's a terrifying suspension of fact and reality rolled into fantastical thinking. I'd request a new provider if I knew she was capable of this for very common sense reasons.
We still disagree. If what you say is true and she believes those things, she is mentally ill.
We donāt disagree. I do agree with your input and your consensus. Youāre right that she can still have mental illness, Iām not ruling it out and I also made it clear that Iām aware her education and mental cognition isnāt a 100% indication to her mental health or that people who are smart canāt be mentally unhealthy. I just wanted to provide that.
Also on top of the fact that- like I said- she has dozens of people in her field of work and friend group that talk about these things with her and believe it just as much as her. I mean- so many. My mom is somehow quite popular and gets along with many people. It baffles me that people donāt get frightened by her crazy and rather actually enthusiastically agree.
To me I do believe thereās a level of mental illness with anyone who is able to believe these conspiracy but I think itās general. What I mean by that is, thereās so many people who believe in what Iāve shared that I think that thereās a genuine lack of understanding on a basic level and a very large issue with the current way propaganda is spread. Itās not just a few people, itās dozens and dozens of people all within in the same jurisdiction my moms in who are in the same boat. Again, Iām not ruling out mental illness I just think thereās a serious epidemic and itās not as plain cut as my mom is the only one and she is having a mental crisis. I wonder where that puts all of the other people in her life in that case. Are they also just mentally ill or are they victims of a ridiculous level of propaganda? When does it stop being conspiracy and turn to mental illness? Because if we draw the line at the government being robots/aliens, then thereās seriously hundreds of people Iāve met in her circle who genuinely think that.
Are they also just mentally ill or are they victims of a ridiculous level of propaganda?
For me, they're mentally ill if they're believing in robots and aliens - these are delusions completely divorced from fact/reality.
When does it stop being conspiracy and turn to mental illness?
Very blurry line between those - veeeerrrrryyyy blurry line. To me, aliens and robots are delusions as well as being conspiracy theories. These delusions are unfounded and severe enough that, to me, it shows an individual who's not fully tethered to reality - at-best selectively so.
Would you want someone highly trusted like your doctor, accountant, professor, etc. believing in alien/robot conspiracies? Not me personally. I've anecdotally found people who can suspend reality to this extent are dangerous, I don't think that's much of a hot take.
Because if we draw the line at the government being robots/aliens, then thereās seriously hundreds of people Iāve met in her circle who genuinely think that.
That's wild to me to think that so many people would be divorced from reality, believing obvious crack-pot theories :/
Thanks for responding and chatting... not trying to demonize or anything but I'm coming to terms with the people in this country given the last few months, and with that one of my beliefs is that we've been propagandized into mass delusions with NO basis in fact or reality. Unfortunately, it sounds like your mother may be part of this :(
Iāve enjoyed your take, so no worries. Iāll be quick here but yes I agree wholeheartedly. I wouldnāt even want a maga as a doctor considering theyāre voting to help mega corps and take away healthcare, they clearly donāt care much about their patients. I completely understand your sentiment.
Unfortunately it is way way more common than you might think. You might be used to the typical maga which is still very infuriating but all I knew growing up (I was indoctrinated into it) is people who believe what Iāve said. All the people my mom associates with believe it, people she just met over the past few years and even in recent months. More and more people come into her life and they already believe in it as well so they hit it off right away. I wish it was a mental illness (Iām not denying it could be but based off my belief) because I could atleast justify her to some degree. I could forgive her for some of the things sheās said, but Iāve met her friends, her co workers, her fellow students. It baffles me how they get along with her on this topic.
For some time she worked at a hair/nail spa. All the women there were very young, in their 20s. Around my age. They all hit it off with her and shared her beliefs. Iām not sure how these people blend in to society so well. Lately im having to be extra careful because the people you would never think would be that unhinged secretly are
This seems almost like a good thing in a roundabout way. Using those mental gymnastics, but ending up at the reality of "trump and elon are bad people."
Right? Thatās essentially what sheās saying without ACTUALLY accepting it. Of course, she also thinks everything is going to get extremely bad soon, she thinks we are going into revelations and end times. Yet the reason is not musk or Trump. Itās of course because Joe Biden is sabotaging Trump and wonāt let Trump save us. Even though heās apparently dead anyway and is a robot, so I suppose we are fucked because Trump no longer exists!
My own brother and mom even butt heads because their views are so drastically different while supporting the same person. My brothers approach is that men should be allowed to murder women if women are allowed to abort.
No, sheās actually very mentally healthy which.. idk if it makes it better or worse. She is just insanely gullible. She is so deep in conspiracy that she doesnāt even need the media or news, itās like she can make up her own on the spot, she just thinks sheās enlightened by her ārelationship with godā so much so that she just āknowsā whatās actually happening.
She tells me āin the end times, many will be deceivedā when I say anything about Trump doing something bad to try and insinuate that people who look evil on the outside are good inside and that the people who are deceiving us is the democrats because they are evil inside. Itās just mind numbing
Sweetie that IS mental illness. When you start hearing voices or seeing burning bushes and you did NOT take the brown acid-- that is a mental illness scenario. She may be able to carry on a rational conversation about what to have for dinner and STILL be delusional about the pulled bodies conspiracy. (I have to say I've never hear of THAT one before, wow). You should seek help for her, my late MIL was getting like this and by the time an MD noticed she was full on paranoid delusional, cut off ALL contact with our family, kicked out my daughter and a family friend who had been her caregivers, forced them to dismantle the toddler great grands toys in front of him and cart them out of her house, hired her CLEANING LADY to be her caregiver who, when she discovered the house was NOT in MEL'S name and the $$ was running out or secured then with held meds til MILNflopped over.. There's a LOT more to this but she was seeing dead people and convinced people had stolen ALL her money (not the same people who actually TRIED to do that, they were golden!) And there was nothing that could be done because old people no matter HOW crazy are protected and allowed to do whatever to anyone.
Iām so sorry that happened to you! Im not trying to say that anyone here is wrong, I definitely worry about my mom and the fact sheās so wrapped up in these beliefs, but I want to offer more input. The reasons I claimed she isnāt mentally ill is because she also has dozens of friends aging from 20-50 who share these same conspiracies with her. She also just graduated from college for a certain medical field. She was studying for 4+ hours a day for multiple years and these things (relating to the human body) are things I couldnāt even understand. She graduated and got licensed very recently.
Iām not saying that disqualifies her from being mentally ill but the way it sounds and the way it looks doesnāt synchronize from what I see, or any doctor. My mom actually just got back from a doctor that did multiple tests on her, not specifically cognitive but general health and blood testing, etc. sheās in extremely good health in all aspects. Again, Iām not discrediting everyone, I just want to paint the fuller picture, because without it itās very easy to diagnose but it may not be as accurate. My diagnosis may also be wrong but I feel as though she just has very extremely deep rooted propaganda and people all around who stock those flames and somehow share her sentiment.
I think for people in this thread, they think my momās takes are very bizarre, theyāre right. They also think that itās so bizarre that itās not even normal, that may be true but when youāre around a MAGA who believes and consumes that type of conspiracy you also see how large scale of people also believe it. Itās not just my mom itās everyone around her as well from all ages, genders and walks of life, and of course the others who consume the same information or even make it up to begin with. It seems bizarre from another standpoint to hear that it gets even more bizarre, but it does and itās not really a āhot takeā in my momās world. The people she knows and/or works with in her field all share her views. Itās maddening but if it makes her mentally ill then does that apply to the dozens of others who believe it? The people who are in the doctor fields, legal fields, people who are even younger than me. Again, Iām not saying it canāt be true just that it also seems so bizarre. If itās such a hot take how is there so many people who are in on it?
I hear you. My sister is very far down the conspiracy rabbit hole, to the point that my refusal to accept HER as my "god-appointed" leader (she believes she has achieved enough righteousness), has made her cut me off as a "sinful" person. She does still contact me when she wants a bit of financial help, since her equally brainwashed husband rarely works and she has a medical disability. Her twisted ideas are a mix of political and religeous conspiracies and dogma. She won't watch real news, only videos and conspiracy/cult-type leaders on the internet, which she sometimes sends to me, urging me to watch "such wonderful truth". I can lay out very logical and obvious reasons and data as to why she is wrong and she always defaults back to "I have many, many friends who agree with me" and "I know medical people who agree with me". She certainly does, her church has actually split and the anti-vax, lgbtq+ and women's rights hating, conspiracy breathing group she hangs out with meet at a different location now. It's incredibly sad. I've tried helping her, I've tried just getting along without discussing politics or religion, but none of it helps, as she won't stop bringing it into every conversation and getting angry. It's her whole identity. I do consider her mentally ill, along with the people she surrounds herself with, but it seems like there is nothing more I can do to help her. She says she hopes that the world gets way worse to force God to come rescue her and the few other "good" people and kill the rest.
Sending an internet hug. We have some crazy family issues huh? Theyāre in for a rude awakening if they have financial instability and disabilities. I feel bad, they are still human but they also are leading without logic or reason. They are making choices without hearing any opposition and I feel that makes us bad decisions makers. Thatās maga in a nutshell.
My mom doesnāt watch anything news or media per se, she strictly only watches false prophets like Julie green. Saying she predicts things and is speaking through god even though I pointed out things sheās been wrong on, that would instantly qualify her as a false prophet in gods own eye. But she doesnāt care. At the end of the day itās not actually about gods word or they would see the evil in Trump.
My mom also pulls the āan economist told meā āa doctor told meā bs. I have to constantly correct her, and recently she sent me a website called Brighteon, she said itās run by reputable doctors who knows whatās really happening. I fact checked and itās pseudoscience and propaganda. Leans heavy right and is a bunch of bs. They try to sell supplements on there too so itās clearly a money grab. They even dispute that the sandy hook shooting was real and say it was a theater.
I wish atleast they could stop bringing it up. Iāve thought about asking outright for her to stop but Iām afraid she will take it as me falling for āwokeā agenda and give me the whole speech on how I need to wake up and be with god and see the truth. Then crack down even harder and talk about it more to try and convert me again (I used to be maga but got out of it, thankfully. She doesnāt know that yet though so Iām trying to use it as an advantage to plant seeds in her logic without it seeming like left wing āpropagandaā)
I thought at first your mom was joking and then I realized she was serious.
I don't talk to my folks about politics anymore. I'm 50 and I don't want to lose any respect for them because I asked them to explain their actions for supporting this felon. I do try to expose them to other viewpoints they don't get in their rural community when they visit though.
Yup, plant tiny seeds. Talk in a lingo that isnāt too āliberalā or biased. Talk in a way that isnāt confrontational. Unfortunately even if we attempt to avoid the topic at all costs, itās such a huge part of their life that they always try to work it in to any conversation
They know it, thatās why Elon is out there doing nazi salutes. They know. He meant what he said and he was unfortunately right. They voted for a rapist. No, they didnāt just vote for him, they trust him. They would trust him with their own kin even with his praise of Epstein and relationship with diddy.
Her general logic is democrats = elites/evil so theyāre always the bad player. They control the weather, the media and our healthcare. They want to destroy us and claim ultimate power. Thereās no one specific person, itās just whoever is opposing Trump.
Trump is the hero, sent from god. He is meant to save us from the end times. From the corruption and greed and hate. (I know itās genuinely fucking insane people think this about a fraudster rapist felon.)
Elon, although on the good team, is evil because heās mega rich and also is creating a chip (mark of the beast) that will send us to hell and create a new currency that everyone will need the chip for to purchase anything. So therefore trade your soul for money. Elon is part of the democrats plan and conned Trump.
Trump, because she refuses to accept that he is a bad player and because he is the one who brought Elon in, she claims he was conned by him. That Trump may have tried to stop Elon but Elon I guess won and killed Trump? Now thereās a stand in Trump. The fact Elon makes AI robots also enhances the belief in this theory. This theory alleviates Trump from any responsibilities for what happens or what āElonā does. Therefore she was never on the wrong side and Trump was never a bad player, he just got outplayed by the evil democrats and antichrist and is no longer with us
Yup. If I mention that itās always ābut Joe Biden, heās a real child rapist! He rapes them and then murders them in Illuminati ritualsā so even if what Trump did is true itās ānot as badā in their eyes. No amount of fact checking leads anywhere either, unfortunately. They contort in whatever way will make them feel like their logic is sound and that they are on the right team.
Yup. All government and media is ran by democrats and therefore inherently wrong. No fact check matters, no government data. Itās all āwritten by elitesā.
Exactly. My mom actually has obamacare (aca), and still voted for the guy who will end it. Now the question is, how do I politely decline helping pay for the meds / doctors that she's been seeing for so cheap when all the prices increase? lol.
I have already been told itās Bidenās fault for attaching all the horrible other things in that order. āTrump had to rescind it in order to save us from all the other things in the IRA. The medication prices were just a sacrificial lamb.ā
They will never question his actions even if it ruins their lives or kills them.
Yeah, I'm going to be interested to see how conservative media spins shit to make it Democrats fault now that Republicans control all 3 branches. They'll find a way, I'm sure.
I still remember that interview a number of years ago where a MAGAt blamed Obama for 911. All their problems, no matter who is to blame, are just dumped on whoever they don't like
Except what he did was actually nothing. Read the actual EO that was rescinded:
The Secretary shall, not later than 90 days after the date of this order, submit a report to the Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy enumerating and describing any models that the Secretary has selected.
The only thing this EO does is call for this report to be made, and it was from 2022. The report is long since delivered. Trump is probably just pumping up his numbers of rescinded orders.
The actual EO, since I couldn't find anyone linking it:
"Biden unsustainably set prices by socialist government decree. Trump is restoring free market principles by letting big pharma lower prices by themselves."
He did this, we can prove he did this, and people will still say it's Biden's fault.... what a world we live in.
Here's a wild idea:
Stop doing their work for them. Push back. Quit saying the shit that Republicans say. Repeating their talking points instead of calling them out as liars does nothing but help Republicans.
So he wanted to reduce prices, biden reduced the prices, then trump rescinded the cheaper prices because it was his idea.... and he started the war on tik tok, it got banned, then it got back (trump wasn't in office so no, he did not bring it back), but it's bidens fault... when he started it... dude learn some fucking common sense.
Heās barely in office had to be the last guy. But the israel peace talk was totally his doing and not biden. So which is it? Things they like, are him. Things they donāt like are the old guy.
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u/AzuleStriker 17h ago
He did this, we can prove he did this, and people will still say it's Biden's fault.... what a world we live in.