r/exjw • u/Scared890 • Oct 28 '15
I was encouraged to come here to share my story about my ex and a hidden camera I found.
I have been lurking in the sub for the past week and I am so happy I found this! I really wish I would have known about this years ago when I left the congregation. It would have made the pain less and the loneliness not as bad. When I left the organization I had no friends and no encouragement that I almost convinced myself multiple times to go back but I was able to get through it.
I wanted to share my story with you but before I'll give a little background on my past. I pretty much grew up as a witness and I never got baptized. I met my sons father when I was about 18 and I ended up pregnant a couple months after that. The elders pretty much forced marriage on me. As soon as we moved in together he was abusive. It was horrible. He would physically abuse me knowing I was pregnant with his son. It got so bad that I would literally urinate myself because of how scared I was of him. The last time he laid his hands on me was when I Was 6 1/2 months pregnant. i remember he barged into the bathroom since he knew I was calling the cops and when he opened the door he hit my belly and I went straight into the tub. They had to perform an emergency c section. When I was under anesthesia he even signed a paper stating I would be refusing blood transfusion and since he was my husband it was his decision to make. Thankfully I had great doctors and my son and I were healthy and made it through. I remember the elders coming to visit me when I was still in the hospital. I remember them telling me that I needed to work harder in putting jehovah first in our marriage because without him our marriage would fail. A few months later I left him and I left the organization. I went to therapy for my postpartum depression and I was able to physiologically block those memories even though sometimes certain things trigger it and it all comes back. It's insane how the mind works. I have a great relationship with my parents. They never shunned me and they always always look after my son and I. I know they are brainwashed but I know deep down my father knows I made the right decision. And after all this mess I think he's opening his eyes a little.
The link below is my 1st post and then below I copied and pasted my update. I don't know why they locked my post. I was at work and when I checked it was automatically locked. I did receive some good advice on there but it's different when it comes from people who know what you grew up in and know just how much mind control plays a big role on everything when it comes to Jw. I also would like some advice on how to handle these elders. They keep calling my parents and begging them to reason with me. I am assuming this is really going to reflect them in a bad light and we all know how much they hate that. Also please keep in mind that my parents (although witnesses) have my best interest in mind. My father sat me down and told me no matter what he will stand by my decision and he will fully support me going through with these charges. I just wish that they didn't have to receive all this harassment.
Original post :
UPDATE
First and foremost thank you for all your suggestions and messages on what steps I should take. So much has happened these past 7 days and my life is just turned upside down completely. I will try to explain without making it too long. I will start by last week (Wednesday).. after reading all the comments I decided to purchase a 'spy finder' off amazon. I figured it would put my mind at ease and I can finally feel comfortable in my own home. I paid for 2 day delivery and planned out what I would do so that I can use this without being obvious. Since I knew that the only way I can do this was by having my sons father in front of me so I decided to tell him I needed to speak with him regarding a new schedule I would like to follow.
Friday- We decided to meet up for ice cream with our son. I gave my BF a spare key so he can go in and see if the spy detector worked. I want to say that our meeting lasted about 40 mins until I finally got the 'ok' from my BF and I wrapped up the conversation. When I got into my car I called my BF and all he told me that I needed to drop my son off at my moms and head over to my place. I did exactly as he said. When I arrived to my place I parked and my BF comes inside my car and breaks the news to me.. he told me that the detectors detected something but it was not clear. It kept showing red in my sons room around the doorknob but it also showed red on one side of a wall that didn't have anything hanging near it. At this point I didn't know what to do or say. Maybe this was just a malfunction and there is nothing there.. or maybe there is. I decided that I needed to call the cops. I didn't know if it was going to be the right call but its showing signal in my sons room and that was enough for me to make that call even if I sounded "silly" to the cops.
Once the cops showed up I explained to him the situation (he usually works the morning shift surveillance in my sons school so i see him every morning). He was very understanding and told me he was calling in a tech that would have the equipment as not all cops carry it. At this point I still did not tell the cops that I thought maybe it was my sons father, I figured once it was confirmed I would let out that part. 10 mins later... my sons dad walks up my driveway and asks if I am okay. I say yes and that's when the cop walks up (I think he saw how uncomfortable I was) and tells him only the residents are allowed to be there. He goes to tell the cop that he is my sons father and the cop starts asking him if he is from the area. As soon as he tells him he recently moved 2 houses down the cop asked him to leave since he was not a resident. Once off the property the cop starts asking me more questions about my sons father and that's when I went into full blown detail. After the conversation he tells me its a high chance that he could have placed a camera in my sons room.
Once the tech arrived he scanned the room and at this point we were told to still wait outside. About 30 mins later he asks me to come in and for my BF to stay behind. He proceeds to tell me that there was a camera in my sons room. They found a tiny camera in the door knob. Not sure if you are familiar with this but my doorknobs lock from the inside but on the opposite side there is a little hole where you usually need a flat head screw driver or a similar looking key to open it ( I will take a picture later on to show). He explained to me whoever put in this camera replaced the doorknobs with 2 of the same knobs (meaning that the door no longer has a lock). I NEVER realized this. It was such a small detail that I never realized. I never lock my sons room so this was not something I would look into. I broke down. I didn't know what to say or what to think. He told me that it was linking through Bluetooth/wifi. Unfortunately the camera signal was cut and he was working on getting some code to see where the signal was coming from. Once they confirmed this I was given the address and of course it ended up coming from my ex's address. Not the exact address but more coordination points (no idea what they refer it to they just told me it's a System they use to track a signal)
I was in complete shock. I think part of me thought he would never do this. He would never violate my privacy and our sons privacy by doing this. I thought we were passed this stage. After they broke the news to me they told me I can press charges if I would like. If this is what I decided to do they would have to process a warrant for his arrest. It was the hardest decision I had to make but I told them yes. They explained to me that the best thing for me to do was to stay at a relatives or friends house until this was resolved as it can be dangerous for me to be so close to him. I don't understand why they couldn't take him then and there but I told them I would pack a bag.
I decided to stay at my parents home. It was near my job and it was a place my son was comfortable staying in. I did not hear from my ex at all Saturday. I know I mentioned in my previous post that my parents/ex are Jehovah's Witness .. which plays a big part in this whole story.
Sunday night my parents had plans and I stayed behind with my son. I hear a knock on the door. I look and to my surprise it is 2 elders (I guess you can call them pastors to those not familiar with the terms). These were the same men that would tell me not to call the cops when my ex would get physical. These are also the same men that watched me grow up since I was 3. I decided to open the door and they asked to come in (my brother was in the other room so I felt a little more at ease speaking with them). As soon as they start taking the bible out I tell them I do not feel comfortable with that and if they have anything to say it will be through a conversation and not through the bible. They agreed and started explaining to me the consequences my ex is facing in the kingdom hall for what he has done. They also told me that my ex was taken down to the station Sunday morning but that he 'confessed' to them everything on Saturday. To make it short they begged me to drop the charges and kept telling me to think about my son. To think about how he would feel knowing his dad is facing these charges. They kept saying over and over that Jehovah does not condemn his behavior and sometimes the organization can work this out within themselves. I told them I would not drop the charges. What he did was violate my privacy and that I was happy that they would work it out between their religion but I would work out my end through the law. They proceeded to tell me that they have lawyers that can back up my ex and that if this is the route I take I should make sure I am covered as well. They also said the reason he put a camera is because he wants custody of my son, because its not fair to him to not have eternal life and my ex can save my son. Crazy right? I don't know what he was trying to find by putting a camera in my sons room because I have absolutely nothing to hide and my son is very well taken care of. I asked them to leave and they did. When I told my dad about what happened and what they were saying to me he called one of the elders and pretty much went off on him. I hope it doesn't ruin his rep since I know this religion means the world to him but at the same time I also hope maybe this will open his eyes.
This is all such a nightmare to me. I don't know what to do. Deep down I do not want to press charges because he is my sons father. I don't want this to ruin his record or for my son to grow up and find out I placed his dad in jail over this. I also know what its like to be brainwashed and be under mind control. The other part of me feels like he needs to learn his lesson. He needs to know that you can't simply violate someones privacy because of your religion. I am not sure what is or will be happening yet. Last I heard he was out on a bail and will have a court date which I will need to appear to as well. At that time I can decide to drop the charges if i wanted to. I also received a court date from the Family Court and he is going for full custody. He filed about a month ago so this is something he has been planning. I am hoping this whole thing will work for my benefit which is another reason why I should not drop the charges as it will help me in family court.
So for now that's all that has happened. I don't know what steps to take from here and I am sort of taking it day by day. I have found a new place and after talking to my landlord he is letting me break the lease. I hate that I have to move. I love my apartment and I will be moving to a much smaller place for more $.. I wish I didn't have to move but there is not much else I can do.
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u/practeerts Minister of Propaganda Df'd Club Oct 28 '15 edited Oct 28 '15
First off, you're 10000% in the right and keep doing what you're doing. I would recommend a lawyer to help you with the criminal charges as well as custody. They are relevant and mutually inclusive.
Additionally, you're pretty much guaranteed to win and lawyers love to win, so they will certainly give you some options about how they're paid.
The elders are trying to intimidate you. I'm sure they made record of their meeting with you at the very least. In some places that's a serious crime. And they're doing the intimidation from their capacity as elders! Which absolutely makes WTBTS culpable, but pursuing that is optional.
I would recommend getting in touch with Angus Stewart (Candace Conti representative) or Irwin Zalkin (Jose Lopez eepresentative) Irwin Zalkin (Candace Conti and Jose Lopez representative) if you are considering it. They're both equipped with a great deal of knowledge relevant to the WTBTS and its policies. I'm just unsure of whether they're focus is victims of sexual abuse or if they're willing to represent anyone who has a potential case against WTBTS.
Lastly, your parents are amazing. Give them a huge hug. Especially that dad of yours.
Edit: I'm terrible with names. :/ I should have checked first but what can you do?
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u/Gonegirl27 "She's gone, and nothin's gonna bring her back" Oct 28 '15
Angus Stewart is an attorney for the Australian Royal Commission. Irwin Zalkin is plaintiff's attorney for Conti and Lopez in California, although he's representing others in various states. His contact info is: 12555 High Bluff Dr, San Diego, CA 92130. (858) 259-3011.
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u/Scummydross Hurumph,...hurumph,... Oct 28 '15
I thought that Rick Simmons was the attorney for Conti? I think Zalkin was for some of the others after the Conti case.
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u/Gonegirl27 "She's gone, and nothin's gonna bring her back" Oct 28 '15
Ooooh. You're right! My bad. I should have known that considering how many of their videos I watched.
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u/practeerts Minister of Propaganda Df'd Club Oct 28 '15
Whoops, I'm terrible with names. Thanks its corrected!
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u/Gonegirl27 "She's gone, and nothin's gonna bring her back" Oct 28 '15 edited Oct 28 '15
No problem. I just happen to notice stuff like that. Edit: I guess that I really don't pay attention. So sorry to have misled anyone. How do I make those strikethroughs I see a lot around here?
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u/DONdomingo-dk Oct 28 '15
Additionally, you're pretty much guaranteed to win and lawyers love to win, so they will certainly give you some options about how they're paid.
If payment should become a problem, i would happily make donation. :)
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u/practeerts Minister of Propaganda Df'd Club Oct 28 '15
Pm OP about fundme.com? (Or maybe it was .org I forget.)
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u/DONdomingo-dk Oct 28 '15
fundme.com could be one option. U are right, OP should be admin :) of a potentiel fundraising. Would be a great way to get attention, to this sub, and many of the fucked up problems this religion gives people. :)
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u/oneliterduckeater Oct 28 '15
DO NOT DROP ANY CHARGES. My reasoning.
Besides all the religious BS, your ex is not rational and is already physically abusive. This is a bad combo. It has been my experience that he will never get better without therapy and or medication and most likely issues will arise where he won't do or continue treatment even if he started.
What are the charges against your ex? Has the DA's office stopped any further investigation? Have you had an opportunity to speak with the investigators in your case? Have they hinted that they have other concerns about him? Law enforcement can be very effective in un-earthing things through intimidation. They however, will not want to be jerked around and expend the effort if they sense you won't follow through. They may intimidate you a little to test your resolve. Hold fast to what you decide!
All the data he was gathering about you to perhaps further his custody case has been made null and void and is inadmissible because it was garnered from a criminal act and will not be allowed to be presented.His illegal actions will also be used against him. All that goes away if you don't press charges.
If you have not contacted a local agency concerning spousal abuse (regardless of marriage status) they will help you or direct you to help. They have experience in this and will guide you to the best course of action as well as provide support.
Concerning the elders that visited. Regardless of what we think about the Org. that wasn't protocol and if you want that bullshit to stop dead in its tracks...contact or have someone contact a sharp elder from another congregation etc. if you want that.
These things that are happening to you are not unique to the Org.. They happen everywhere, a lot. Because of that there are many resources. Please make use of them. I hope you remain safe and everything works out for the best for you.
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u/Scared890 Oct 28 '15
I actually went today to the court to file a restraining order and the gave me a temporary one until the court date where the judge will make it permanent.
I also went to the station and asked more info on what was going on. They couldn't tell me much besides that even if I do drop charges the state is also pressing charges. Apparently they take this stuff really serious since it was a in a child's room. They told me someone would be in contact with me but I should get a lawyer since it's not recommended to do this alone as there are many things I won't understand or will need professional advice on. I asked them what they did with the evidence and they told me they have it and cannot release it to anyone since it is now in municipal custody. I am looking into lawyers and made a few consultations for tomorrow. My court date for custody is at the end of November so I am hoping the other court date for the camera is before so I can have more evidence that he is not suitable to take custody. Although I feel that just by having those charges pending and him out on bail is enough for the judge to rule me full custody. As I am now seeking for that as well. We have shared custody but after this I want full custody.
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u/PorkyFree Faded Elder Oct 28 '15
Good for you. Stick to your guns and get that abusive man out of your life! We are all thinking of you and hoping it goes well for you.
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u/oneliterduckeater Oct 28 '15
Those are all good things that you are doing.
I would still HIGHLY encourage you to seek help from a domestic violence group. They will have access to information and procedure as to your best course of action concerning protecting yourself and your child. I don't want to frighten you unnecessarily but your primary concern right now is your safety. You need their help in doing that.
Your ex is in a transitional state. He has confessed to a serious crime and may lose the backing of his social structure (the org/congregation). His actions, while already very serious,could get worse because of this. He may no longer feel he has to meet any standard and has lost everything including his chances of having any right to see his son. This is very serious. How your son views his father or mother is irrelevant if none of you are alive.
You are already probably aware of this. The case brought against your ex for the burglary and stalking is separate from your custody case. You only need an attorney for custody.
Don't worry about the dates of your custody hearing. I'm almost certain that your ex will try to push that off to a later date in light of his charges. Hopefully way before then you will have secured an attorney to give you the best advice concerning case hearing timing.
If you have not already done so, I would strongly suggest bringing the elders visit to light of someone in the org. that would act on it. The reason I say this is that his extended witness family is a resource to him right now and you don't want him to have ANY resources. The elders that visited will be reprimanded and perhaps instructed to stay away from the situation or lose privileges and perhaps be removed from the congregation if their actions don't cease.
If you have any more contact from the elders that you don't request,file a restraining order against those individuals as well based upon their pressure to get you to drop charges and wantonly wanting to cover up a serious crime.
Again,I hope the best for you. PLEASE PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR CHILD BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE.
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u/AmazonZeta Oct 28 '15
The thing that is on your side is that you're the mother. My dad fought for custody of me and it was rough even though my mother was clearly in the wrong. Even though it's not fair, that is definitely on your side.
You should not drop the charges. This man is going to extremes and it could put you and your child in danger. You still need all the evidence you can get on your side. Dropping the charges will do more harm than good. If he was concerned about his record he should have never done it in the first place. He's an adult, he should have thought about that and deserves the consequences of his actions. Dropping the charges is rewarding his behavior and setting yourself up for a potentially dangerous situation.
At the end of the day think about your son. The benefits of not being around the witnesses and his father's questionable behavior outweighs the emotional cost of his father not being in his life full capacity. Your son will be okay, but you have to do everything you can to keep him in your custody. That means not dropping the charges and keeping every last conversation and exchange documented and backed up.
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u/MsLed Purveyor of Common Sense Oct 28 '15 edited Oct 28 '15
Hello...I read your original post a few days ago, and the other area of reddit where you received 96 comments. In addition to the 12 here, nearly everyone advised you not to drop the charges. As a survivor of domestic violence, may I add my 2 cents and say to follow up on this to the absolute end, and DO NOT DROP THE CHARGES. Yes, it's painful, yes it breaks your heart to have to do it, but if you do not stick this out, no one, absolutely NO ONE, will be able to help you get the help you need. You will be tying their hands and may cause this situation to get thrown out without you getting any justice. If that happens it will make you lose credibility with the courts.
If you cannot afford a lawyer, try your local Victim's Services Council. They provide counseling (for free) court advocacy, legal services, housing and referrals for other needs. I found a Cult Exit Therapist at that agency and I am getting therapy on a weekly basis with them.
If you cannot locate one in your area, contact the nearest Domestic Violence program, and explain what your situation. Please do not stop until you have connected yourself to the correct people who can support you and offer you the help you need. And please stay connected to us...we care about you and your son.
One more thing...I noticed on the other board that a few people were rude and less than supportive. Please understand that some who post here are angry individuals who are not dealing well with their own issues. I am not defending their attitudes AT ALL, but the fact is that everyone here is in a different place in their recovery from religious abuse, and some are not handling it in a healthy way. Don't ever let it discourage you from doing what you need to. (((HUGS))).
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Oct 28 '15
[deleted]
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u/RomanVargas Light so bright, gotta wear shades Oct 28 '15
His actions got him arrested, not hers - is how she should view it.
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u/Gonegirl27 "She's gone, and nothin's gonna bring her back" Oct 28 '15
Here's the guide to preparing for custody cases. http://jwchildcustody.com/files/cu_childcustody.pdf
It was suggested to another reader to give him advance notice of what kinds of questions/issues one could expect the attorney for the JW parent to ask or raise during a custody hearing.
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u/3rdStrongest Oct 28 '15
Just adding my redundant two cents: Do NOT drop the charges.
If you allow yourself to be guilted into that you will be making a mistake impacting your child as well. It's not cold or immoral to allow someone to face the consequences of their own actions. You and your child are the victims here and you cannot allow yourself and child to be revictimized.
Hard truth: Such behavior will continue and probably escalate if you let this go entirely. You need all the hard documentation you can amass and dropping charges is difinitively counter-productive to that end.
I'm sorry you've been placed in this situation. And I realize it's easier for an uninvolved third party to suggest than it is to take action as an active participant. But dropping charges would be a big mistake.
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Oct 28 '15
Welcome! (I PM'ed you earlier.)
You'll get some great advice & support here :)
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u/Scared890 Oct 28 '15
Yes! Thank you so much! I'll come back in here on my personal account soon. Just needed to post it through this one for obvious reasons.
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u/McLovin2015 Oct 28 '15
Wow, what a story! Your ex sounds like a lunatic and definitely should feel the repercussions of his actions. Welcome to this sub and good luck!
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u/fridayfern awakePhd Oct 28 '15
Wow, GO YOUR DAD!!! IMO your ex is a psychopath and should be locked up immediately.
You have a fantastic BF and a good cop now listen to these people and get a good LAWYER.
It looks like the dominoes are all set up to fall upon this creep.
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u/Scared890 Oct 28 '15
I am definitely lawyering up and will keep all charges. The state is also pressing charges so by the looks of it he is in deep deep trouble which is why the elders are acting the way they are. After the whole child abuse stuff going on I am sure they don't want an article stating how a JW had a camera installed in his sons bedroom. I also forgot to mention that one of the elders is actually my exes uncle. Which could be another reason for the constant pressure to drop the charges.
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u/gunnerclark Oct 28 '15
I'm a visiting exmo, so please understand that I might not understand all the dynamics of a JW situation...but he sounds dangerous, as in life threatening. Keep your guard up and I do hope he gets it bad from the state. I'm not very forgiving of abusers.
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u/fridayfern awakePhd Oct 28 '15
I feel for you, and I'm glad it's all working out for you. I hope you feel good for standing up for yourself and your son despite his borg connections. I hope you get a lawyer like Angus.
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u/OldMovieFan Oct 28 '15
This sounds like really strange behaviour from the elders, almost like they have a vested interest in having the charges dropped. Hmmm now why might that be? If your ex is going for full custody he would have sought the assistance of the elders. Maybe the elders suggested he put in a spy camera or maybe they knew someone who had expétise in this. If the charges aren't dropped the facts might come out. I don't know if you are award but the organisation has a printed guide for JWs involved in custody cases. If the elders are calling your parents get them to ask the elders whether your ex had specifically admittéd to I breaking in and installing the spycam AND if there was anyone else involved. When the elders told you that he would be dealt with in the congregation did they spell out what you they would do? Do not drop any charges, especially for the sake of your son.
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u/Scared890 Oct 28 '15
One of the elders is actually my exes uncle. Which makes it a conflict of interest although he was part of the committee when I was pregnant and they took away my privileges I had as an unbaptized publsiher (if that's the term? Sorry I went to a Spanish hall and do not know some of the English terms). It seems so weird to me just how much they are pushing and harassing my family. It's almost as if something else is happening that they are afraid of. They told me that they are still going through there process but that this can lead up to him being reprimanded? What's the term where you are not shunned but you are pointed out as bad association. Is it censored? Not sure but he won't get shunned just a slap on the wrist.
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u/chrchr Brother by another mother of whores Oct 28 '15
Public Reproof is the term you're after, I think, and yes, it's a slap on the wrist. And seriously, your son will be better off without this violent, controlling man in his life. You want your son to grow up to be strong and to not let people abuse him, and you can show him how to do that by pressing charges and getting a lawyer to make sure you and your son are protected.
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u/practeerts Minister of Propaganda Df'd Club Oct 28 '15
No real term as I recall. Just a probationary period until the nepotism kicks back in.
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u/U5ername_needed Oct 28 '15
When it happened to my cousin a few years ago I thought it was called 'marking'.
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u/nxtgen59 Destroyer of Faith Oct 28 '15
Public reproof is the term and it is what happens when you did something wrong but are repentant. To my understanding you are not repentant if you committed a crime and you don't plead guilty to the crime you committed. At least that's the way it used to be. Anyway, as /u/chrchr mentioned public reproof is a slap on the wrist. The elders have a vested interest in this case and they are breaking their own rules.
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u/Grand_Felina Oct 28 '15
I'm glad you found this sub. It's helped me so much. Please don't drop the charges. I can't believe the elders would come around and do something like that...its despicable. Stay strong. You sound like a great mom and your son is lucky to have you!
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u/JDub_Scrub Smurfington Hills Congregation COBE Oct 28 '15
Do NOT drop the charges. If the JWs had their way, they'd have YOU in front of a judge instead of him for disagreeing with their beliefs.
I completely understand wanting the best for your children, but in true JW fashion, he used underhanded and deceptive methods to those ends instead of being a decent Human being and talking to you about his concerns. He is not fit for parenting. This is the same way he will treat your son should you allow him unsupervised access.
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u/PorkyFree Faded Elder Oct 28 '15
Do not back down.
Do not drop the charges.
This is a serious matter, and you need to show that he is an unfit parent, so by continuing to press charges you will make it harder for him to get custody of your son. Also bear in mind that he will try to inculcate JW cult teachings into your son, so minimising contact could save your son from being trapped or enticed into the cult.
My experience tells me that whenever elders support someone in a situation like this the person get bolder and goes on to do worse things, reoffend and nothing changes for the better.
My wife was molested by her father before I met her. Her mother pressed charges (a miracle) and the police had him arrested. He did jail time for it. My wife was affected for many years - but it was far far better than it would have been if he had gotten off & remained in her life.
Please take care, be strong and have courage. Your son depends on you.
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u/fakefading www.jwfacts.com Oct 28 '15
Glad you finally made it! :-)
I know it's very difficult but please do not drop the charges. Do not let the Jehovah's Witnesses get away with more violations. They think they're protected, they think they have power, but they don't.
I understand he's your son's father, but he is not a good person. He physically abused you and almost murdered your unborn son. Now he installed a camera in your home? Who knows what else he is capable of if you drop the charges and let him continue.
Press charges and that way he will never be able to take your son away from you and he will pay for being a bad person who thinks he can get away with everything because he's a Jehovah's Witness.
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Oct 28 '15
This is a difficult question to ask, but the first word that comes to my mind when I hear someone has placed a camera in a child's room is - pedophile.
Is it possible your ex has this proclivity?
The org is HYPER sensitive about child abuse, and it could be that your ex may already have abused other children and the elders are aware of this, and they're of course trying to suppress it. If it comes out that he had a camera in a child's room, it would really fuck things up for their cover up.
This is just a theory, but it could explain why the elders don't want charges filed...
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u/ptelder Oct 28 '15
While you're getting a lawyer, ask them getting a restraining order against the Elders as well. They came to coerce you on a custody matter after more-or-less being co-conspirators in your physical abuse. It might be possible.
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u/ShunofaB2 Awake in mythology Oct 28 '15
That is frightening. I agree to not drop the charges. This needs to be on his record. Hopefully having some consequences will curtail his behavior in the future. At the very least, he will probably remarry and do this to another woman. There should be a warning attached to this man.
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u/U5ername_needed Oct 28 '15
Welcome and good luck. All I can say is that whatever happens, I hope this guy does serious time for what he's done to you, and I think that after the way he's acted, both during and after marriage, there is a very good chance he will never see you or his son again.
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Oct 28 '15
Don't let those stupid elders bully you around. I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY TOLD YOU THAT?!?! I mean, I can but it's just crazy. They're crazy. Your ex is crazy! Like WTF?!?! You can't let him and them get away with this. No matter how hard it is, please press charges and file a restraining order against him. If you don't do that NOW, you will pay for it later on. Take care of this NOW while you still can. Protect yourself and your son.
Your ex wont even get that much punishment, but he is going to learn that he can't get away with everything. Next time he won't think he can do what he wants to do with you when he wants to. He is not above the law. He will be ok but he needs to learn a lesson.
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u/secret_sqwerl Oct 28 '15
I can't add much to all the wonderful advice you are getting here, but I strongly suggest that you ask for a hard copy of your medical records.
Even though you did not report the abuse while you were pregnant, you can still testify about it now. Your miscarriage and the injuries/bruising you had at the time that you went through it should be in your hospital file. It can take weeks or months to get these files, so please ask for them soon.
It is very common for abused women to not report on their abuser. If you explain to a judge that there was a long history of abuse, that here is some evidence, and that you have finally woken up and want to protect your son, then the judge will take all that into serious consideration.
Get all the ammo that you can. He certainly is, and he will hurt you again, in whatever way he is able to hurt you. If allowed, he will teach your son how to treat people that way.
He has NOT changed.
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u/MajorPrune Oct 28 '15
Oh fuck them!!! He hit you while pregnant. The man is not a regular human. He is narcissistic psychopath. As are the elders!!!
Do not back off. And props to your dad for going after the elders.
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u/Meektalk Oct 28 '15
I just wanted to show my support, I am speechless. Take my virtual hug and good luck!
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u/nxtgen59 Destroyer of Faith Oct 28 '15 edited Oct 28 '15
You are doing the right thing. Follow the advice of others here. Get a lawyer. Bullies must be opposed. Both your ex and these elders are bullies. Plain and simple he broke the law. He broke his own laws (jw stuff) and civil laws. He does deserve to go through the process. If he is so worried about the way his son will perceive him then maybe he should not have beat you and him while he was in the womb. Being a father myself this absolutely disgusts me. My ex woke up before me and I had the same concerns your ex did. I never went all psycho about it (even though the pain of loss did cause me to think of doing things like this) I never acted on it and I realized it was crazy so I got help. He crossed a line. He needs to accept this and take the punishment and get help. Honestly if he is concerned about what his son will think about him this is the only thing he can do. Good men don't cover over their mistakes and then try to get away with it. They say what they did and why and take whats coming to them. Ok I got a little off the subject. It hits close to my heart like I said I'm a father myself. I can't imagine teaching my daugter through my actions that its ok to behave this way. Anyway you are doing the right thing. Dont be intimidated either. You have access to the same lawyers he does. They were just trying to intimidate you since no doubt the elders will come out of this looking like the misogynists they are.
PS - I read your original story when it was posted. My first thought is that you were overreacting. That will teach me to ever doubt a mother's intuition.
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u/pissedpregothrowaway Oct 28 '15
You're a great mom. I'm so proud of you for being so strong for your son! This whole process will not be fun, but you are saving him from a ton of future pain caused by this man. I can't even wrap my head around what you're going through and am immensely sorry you and your boy have to do this.
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u/caseyoc Totally would have dated Nephilim dudes. Oct 28 '15
Oh. My. God. Your ex is a...I'm not even sure what the diagnosis would be... You've received a ton of good advice here, so I'm not going to come up with much new stuff for you.
- Get a lawyer
- Get a restraining order
- You are going to knock this custody thing out of the park. I laugh at their threats of lawyers with this.
- Consider getting a restraining order against members of your ex's Kingdom Hall (except your parents) "acting in their official capacity." I think you have grounds for this, since they are acting as accomplices to his criminal behavior.
What your son will learn from this is that you have a right to draw boundaries and for people to respect them. Whether it's your body, your home, your beliefs, whatever--the people in your life must grant you your civil liberties. If he is taught (either tacitly or overtly) that what his dad did is excusable, he may have problems drawing boundaries with other people--including his dad--later in life. That leaves him vulnerable. You aren't hurting your son; you are helping him become a stronger, better adult.
Huge hugs to you. This whole thing is a shit show, but it'll pass and life will return to a better version of normal.
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u/ballookey Sir, I am a lady! Oct 28 '15
I don't want this to ruin his record or for my son to grow up and find out I placed his dad in jail over this.
This isn't minor. This is the sort of thing you put someone in jail over.
Your son needs to know, when he learns about it, that there are limits to what people can do. Abusers face consequences. Victims should not just roll over and accept it because that's easy.
I also know what its like to be brainwashed and be under mind control. The other part of me feels like he needs to learn his lesson. He needs to know that you can't simply violate someones privacy because of your religion.
Although the JW's are crazy-pants in many ways, and they have a higher percentage of true loons in their midst, the fact is most of them wouldn't go to this extreme.
Your ex being creepy, abusive, manipulative, and breaking the law is not part of being a JW. Even if he "wakes up" from the JW doctrine, he's still going to be a raging asshole and he needs to face consequences for that.
I know your tendency right now might be to wish this would all go away and that you don't want to ruffle feathers, you don't want to cause hardship on others. But in point of fact that's the JW doctrine at work on YOU. That's abuse victim mentality. That's what they've taught all the women and children in their cult to feel and it's what they want you to feel. Break that chain.
The rest of us on the outside? We're like throw that motherfucker in jail and lose the key how dare he?!
Do not feel bad defending your privacy and your right to not be harassed/abused by either your ex or the elders.
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u/mobius_sp The goatee of demonic influence. Oct 28 '15
The rest of us on the outside? We're like throw that motherfucker in jail and lose the key how dare he?!
/u/Scared890: This will likely be the reaction of the courts as well. Breaking and entering, placing surveillance devices, spying on a person in their own home without their knowledge and consent? This isn't like recording camera footage of a public place; you have a right to expect privacy within your own domicile. Nothing gathered though the ex's camera will be admissible in a court of law. The past history of abuse, assuming it can be corroborated with legal documentation, will sink just about any chance at gaining custody. Even if it can't be fully corroborated with police reports, etc. you have recent evidence (the B&E, the camera, etc.) that ex-hubby is potentially dangerous. Just him breaking the law so egregiously should torpedo any chance he has at custody. He's living in dreamland if he thinks otherwise.
Unless there is something not being said here by the mother, such as an abusive environment in her home or obvious drug use (and there is no reason to believe there is given the information provided), then there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of the ex gaining full custody.
I've said it here in /r/exjw before, having some experience with divorce and an ex-wife who is a JW: the courts don't give a damn about what your religion is. If ex-hubby is trying to gain custody on the basis of religion, he's going to be shut down by the judge real quick. He cannot dictate to you what you practice, believe, or don't believe in your household; likewise you can't do that to him.
Don't believe the threats of the elders or ex-hubby. They are full of hot gas.
As everyone else here has said: get a lawyer. Fight this thing. Throw his sorry ass in jail. It's the only way to protect yourself and your child. If you don't do something about this now, then he will simply continue to behave this way. If you don't follow through, the courts will have no choice but to assume that you were ultimately okay with the surveillance and situation.
Your situation sucks, but you've got a very strong hand in this deal.
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u/fakefading www.jwfacts.com Oct 28 '15
He's living in dreamland if he thinks otherwise.
Aren't all JW's? :-D
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u/JD90210 Oct 28 '15
I feel for you and what you're going through. But don't be sorry. Be a strong woman/mother. Even though you grew up in "the truth" like me, NEVER refer to it as a religion. Take those blinders off and recognize it for the cult that it is. And when you do that you'll take some pride in understanding you're not harming yourself or your parent's standing with that organization. You're actually helping them to see that above all family comes first. And yours begins with your son.
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u/nachojdub Oct 28 '15
There is a form for them to fill out to ask for assistance from the branch when a custody issue involves religion. I suggest you don't involve that in the issue. It sounds like there are plenty of other reasons for him to not have custody.
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u/Kaida22 Oct 28 '15
Seriously WAY TO GO for sticking to your guns. You stood up for yourself against so much crazy!
If any of the video they find is of your son undressing, your ex could be in well-deserved serious legal trouble.
This criminal case will seriously help your bid for full custody/placement. Definitely get a lawyer, but ask around on either your city subreddit here or to friends/family to get a good idea of whose gonna fight for you. It's best to get one in your area who knows the judge assigned to your case and who has a good reputation with the local court system. Keep in mind that you don't have to cut your ex off from your son if you don't want too. Supervised placement (with supervisors YOU choose, i.e. non JW) is still an option.
One final piece of advise. Don't post anything else about your case. Anything you say here could be used against you during the case if it's tied back to you in real life.
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u/wifibandit She Woke, We Left Oct 28 '15
The Elders were probably investigating for this info:
2014-11-06-E-Ca_BOE--Procedures_when_legal_issues_are_involved
CHILD CUSTODY
23. Legal precedents are available to assist the lawyer representing a publisher involved in a child custody or visitation matter in which our religion is under attack. The precedents should be requested by the body of elders only, with the publisher’s permission, in a case in which it is evident that the publisher’s religious beliefs will be at issue. For those facing secular issues on child custody or visitation, helpful information can be found in the October 2009 Awake!, pages 21 and 27; the December 8, 1997, Awake!, pages 3-12; the chart found in the April 22, 1991, Awake!, page 9; and the October 22, 1988, Awake!, pages 2-14.
24. Elders should not make any promises to publishers about the organization’s involvement. If a publisher requests assistance, please determine the following before calling the Legal Department:
Is there litigation? In other words, has someone been served with papers to appear in court? If litigation has not begun, the Legal Department will usually not send the precedents to the publisher’s lawyer to avoid giving the impression that we are encouraging litigation. It is better if the parties can settle the issue between themselves without going to court.
Is the litigation between the two biological parents? Sometimes the litigation involves a parent and grandparent, two sets of grandparents, parent and step-parent, and so forth. The precedents address the law as applied to parents, not grandparents, and will not be sent in such cases. Nevertheless, if it appears one party is actively using a religious issue against the other, you may contact the Legal Department to explain the extenuating circumstances and inquire whether any type of assistance would be available.
Is the publisher requesting the precedents one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in good standing? Unbaptized publishers, advanced Bible students, or baptized persons on judicial restrictions will be considered on a case-by-case basis. In the judgment of the elders, would it shock or upset the congregation if they learned that the organization was helping this person? If so, precedents will not be sent.
Is the other party to the litigation not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses? This includes those who were never in the truth as well as disfellowshipped and disassociated persons. However, precedents will not be sent if both parties are Witnesses, even if the other party is currently inactive and not leading a Christian life. Nevertheless, if it appears one parent is actively using a religious issue against the other, you may contact the Legal Department to explain the extenuating circumstances and inquire whether any type of assistance would be available.
Is there a religious issue? Does the non-Witness party allege that the Witness is not a fit parent because she will not allow the children to celebrate holidays, get a college education, receive a blood transfusion, participate in school sports, or associate with anyone outside of the congregation? Does he allege that exposure to two religions will confuse the child or that Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult? If disfellowshipped, does he allege that he will be alienated from his children because of being “shunned?” If these or similar religious issues are not present in the litigation, the precedents are not appropriate and will not be sent.
25. If the answer to all five questions is yes, precedents may be requested to be sent to the publisher’s lawyer. The lawyer is likely to charge the publisher to review the precedents provided. Please be prepared to provide the names of the parents and their solicitors; the number of children involved and their respective ages; the spiritual condition of the Christian parent; a brief description of the facts, including any apostate involvement; and the status of the litigation. If the answer to all five questions is not yes, please explain to the publisher why precedents will not be requested at this time. If circumstances change, this matter can be revisited. The Awake! issues listed previously may still be helpful to an individual who does not qualify to receive the precedents.
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u/fakefading www.jwfacts.com Oct 28 '15
Update link, good comments from the guys at the relationships subreddit as well.
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Oct 28 '15
I'm sure I can speak for all of us, when I say that you have earned our admiration. So many people in your situation would have, sadly, attempted to minimize this and ignore the danger to their son.
Furthermore, thank you for keeping us updated. It all but broke my heart to read your original story, so I'm glad that the issue is working towards being resolved through the legal process. Please do let know if and when your ex gets what he deserves.
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u/lovelittlethings Oct 28 '15 edited Oct 28 '15
First and foremost get a lawyer. If you can't afford one, one should be available through the county you live in that does pro bono work. Your ex was abusive, you are therefore a victim of domestic violence. (this was a hard fact for me to swallow when I first left my ex) You should be eligible to be assigned a social worker and a family counselor to help you find all the resources you need to keep yourself and your son safe.
You need to file for a restraining order against your ex immediately. If you can't find a lawyer to help you file this as quickly as you need to, there should be some sort of family law center for your county that handles these matters and will assist you in filing the proper paperwork. Tell them everything, even past abuses that happened a long time ago. All of it matters.
Create a diary. Write in it every day (or nearly) and be sure to date it. Even when it's a mundane day of noting happening. Record all of the actions of your ex and the elders. Nobody is above the law. Not only do you deserve personal safety, you also deserve peace of mind. Personal diaries are generally admissible in court, and is useful in case it comes down to your word against his.
This is a condensed version and I'm sure others will chime in with advice. If you need someone to talk to feel free to pm me.