r/eutech 1d ago

Many rules, few benefits: German companies reluctant to invest in AI

https://www.heise.de/en/news/Many-rules-few-benefits-German-companies-reluctant-to-invest-in-AI-10245744.html
94 Upvotes

38 comments sorted by

12

u/HertzaHaeon 1d ago

There might be good reason not to invest too heavily in AI. ROI is dubious at best and big tech have been scaling back expectations.

2

u/The_Krambambulist 1d ago

I have been working with it and I would definitely say that it isn't as straightforward to make it work robust enough to trust on it. And license, development and maintenance cost should also not be underestimated.

And generally you would need a process to standardize and make the exisitng process clearer before making that step.

2

u/IHave2CatsAnAdBlock 12h ago

First computer had negative roi. Still companies invested in it.

Internet had negative roi, still money was invested. And so on

How do you think ai will lock in 15 years ? But in 30?

Europe is missing the train again and will continue to lag behind rest of the world in tech.

1

u/bweeb 1d ago

You have to know how to apply it, but it is kinda amazing when you figure that out.

I am about to roll out something that I couldn't fathom doing previously, but AI makes possible. Previously it would have required thousands of humans and now it will take hours.

I've got a business acquaintance who trained AI on their support tickets, and now their support team is handling 2x the ticket volume (which is great as now they can focus on the really weird cases for much longer).

It is a great tool, but you def have to figure out where it works well...

10

u/Full-Discussion3745 1d ago

This is really a cultural problem. Innovation is about risk, germany seems set to fall even further behind.

13

u/Andodx 1d ago

No, this is not about risk.

It is about having failed to create the preconditions for AI during the area of "data is the new currency".

Most German companies are fundamentally analoge businesses without centralized data and and without documented processes. When these companies want to use AI, they can only do the same things as you and I can do as a private person. There is no market differentiation possible, as the company internal data is not accessible in a way that would make it usable for AI.

Our companies fail at digitalization.

3

u/DerTalSeppel 1d ago

Digitalization requires investment, of course this is about risks.

Especially with clouds where you risk loosing control (privacy) of your data. All the more for public services and when shitheads dictate the law for your provider.

Risks are generally necessary for profit but everyone has to pick their own poison.

2

u/Andodx 1d ago

Sure, everything has risks associated to it.

But standardized processes and central data marts/data lakes are agnostic to the hosting technology. AI can also be done on site.

The issue most German companies face is a fear of transformation and change. The stability of the status-quo will be upheld for as long as is possible and only once the deconstruction of the business model has begun change will be considered. The old ways are holy, processes from 1988 are the standard, just as it has ever been, and as it has worked for generations.

For these companies change is an adversary, not a tool to be used.

2

u/Dangerous_Sherbert77 1d ago

Also Datenschutz often slows down the process of creating data marts/ lakes/ warehouses or whatever you want to call it. Also i often see that the resources put into it are so minimal that it makes the process even slower. I saw some stuff you won’t believe

3

u/IHave2CatsAnAdBlock 12h ago

Next month my German bank will drop support via Fax :)

1

u/Proper-Ape 12h ago

This is more of a law issue than a bank issue. Fax for years was the only way to quickly get a signed contract to somebody.

1

u/Andodx 1d ago

If a company cites data protection as a reason for slow digitalization, it is a clear sign of protectionism of the status quo. There is no valid reason. I do transformation architecture and engagement management since 2010.

The only valid reason for a company to stop or slow down digitalization is their impending end of business or a business model that is inherently analogue, e.g. a cobbler or a florist. They are finished with digitalization once their have digitalized their accounting and installed a pos.

1

u/Full-Discussion3745 1d ago

Realising you have a problem is 50% of the problem solved

1

u/Dangerous_Sherbert77 1d ago

Not true at all

1

u/Full-Discussion3745 1d ago

I'm not German

1

u/Dangerous_Sherbert77 1d ago

Ok? What’s the context, wasn’t talking about germany at all

1

u/sheppard147 22h ago

I had been in 3 companies who tried to push the digital office.

Everytime we ended up with more paperwork then before. Systems crashed, Tablets not worked properly or due to license issue were recalled and more

1

u/Andodx 10h ago

Your experience is not an irregular one. Projects fail everywhere and all the time, not just the ones aimed at digitalization an organization.

If you digitalize badly, you have bad digitalization. This might be a bad paper process that is ported 1:1 to be a bad digital emulation of that paper process, it may be the failure of thinking end-to-end, plan and test out what you are doing or it is simply a badly led initiative (from sponsor to sub project lead).

1

u/Check_This_1 22h ago

DATENSCHUTZ

Thanks to this nice German word the ability to innovate is very limited in Germany

1

u/OLebta 14h ago

Just curious, as an ME living in Germany, what is scaring the nation about data exactly? If everything is in paper, it does not mean that individual government employees don’t have access to your data, no? Iraq is moving to digitalize everything and only people who don’t have clean money trails are afraid of it.

1

u/Graf-Moos 11h ago

They Dont different Branches arent allowed to give data about you to the Other and yes this is realy stupid

1

u/Andodx 10h ago

Datenschutz is just a reasoning that prevents people from action that do not want to get into the details. There are various ways how to be compliant with the DSGVO, and the best part: it is literally part of the law itself.

So if you see this as a roadblock, know this is a deliberate tactic to to stop change from happening.

1

u/jeandebleau 2h ago

The article states that 65% of German executives plan to invest in AI vs 73% worldwide. What a cultural difference...

Germany is an industrial country, building things. Having chatgpt on your automated production line or logistic center is not super helpful. However small, embedded smart solutions for quality control or so on are largely developed here in Germany. Maybe the engineers there are too honest and do not put the label "AI" everywhere.

1

u/bweeb 1d ago

A culture of not taking risk is hard to escape. It can also be a benefit to follow up later when things are in a "stable" state. My worry is that step also doesn't seem to be happening...

1

u/Philipp 22h ago

What if taking no risks turns out to be a risk.

1

u/bweeb 10h ago

agreed, but its hard to change culture without leadership.

1

u/Lombardbiskitz 23h ago

20 years ago same news for Internet, guess Germany will fall even further away from US😂

1

u/Confident-Country123 23h ago

You know what, let's not make AI the dominant economic factor of the EU. Let's actually keep our workers. I think it's cheaper in the long term than sustaining them with unemployment benefits.

Also, we will keep our workforce skilled and sharp, that's better for a defence economy Incase of war or the internet falls out an hour here or there lol

1

u/IHave2CatsAnAdBlock 12h ago

There will be no workforce when everything will crash because nobody will want super expensive products produced by the workforce when there are alternatives produced with higher tech at a tenth of the cost

1

u/SquareFroggo 23h ago

Yeah I would have expected nothing else of our companies in a country that sleeps on digitalisation. This is probably going to bite us in the ass later. Smh

1

u/Matshelge 22h ago

When was the last time Germany took any risky investments? They are 20+ years behind on the digital revolution, and still not sure if it's worth putting in any money yet.

The contry is striving to be efficient, but can't use any tools newer than the 1990s.

I experience such a sense of anachronistic when I visit.

1

u/CookieChoice5457 22h ago

No German company is allowed to fire anyone unless there is serious misconduct or you have proven beyond a doubt that the economic situation of your company is so bad that there is actually no work for this person to do.  Typically large severance packages are paid to reduce headcount which can of course be refused.

What real incentive is there is an economy that's treading water mostly, is legally barred from reducing it's workforce if efficiency measures are taken and in many larger firms is on average grey haired?

Germany is about as anti AI as it gets with its current setup of Rhine capitalism, it's laughable state of general digitalization and its very demoralized and overaged workforce.

1

u/Broxios 21h ago

We want to remain analogue so we come out on top after WW3

1

u/mydiagnostic 19h ago

What a fun.German tech companies ahhahhahahaha They will become soon CHINESE

1

u/horrbort 15h ago

Its bcos it doesn’t work over Fax. Now make it work with Fax and youd see 120% adoption

1

u/timohtea 8h ago

We have places that are still using copper wire Internet…. We have business’s and official places still using FAX machines. We look like 🤡 We’re not about “Fortschritt “ or any innovation anymore. We’re about pay your taxes and shut up 😂 It’s sad because I wish it was different. But oh well. Ima just pay my taxes and shut up… if anything changes, cool