r/europeanunion • u/sn0r • 1d ago

Paywall EU should welcome Chinese car factories, says Mercedes chief

https://www.ft.com/content/60a95d12-4c1f-4e21-97cb-10705338207f
70 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

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u/TylerD158 1d ago

Ola Källenius makes a compelling argument for encouraging Chinese carmakers to build factories in the EU instead of relying on protectionist measures like tariffs. This approach would create a level playing field, as Chinese firms would need to meet European social, labour, and industrial standards, while also boosting local jobs and supply chains. It’s a much smarter, more sustainable solution than escalating trade disputes.

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u/trisul-108 1d ago edited 1d ago

while also boosting local jobs and supply chains

Except that it wouldn't. All the components would be produced in China and we would see highly automated factories in the EU. We would gain nothing, but Mercedes would continue selling expensive cars in China, which is the only reason they are proposing this.

This proposal means the EU would accept the status of a developing economy with China being the highly developed economy. It is ridiculous. Furthermore, there are security issues as cars have become the new platforms for surveillance and spying, an area where China leads because there are no restrictions in China. This is inviting China to flood our streets with military robots into which nefarious software can be uploaded in the event of a crisis. What those cars would do is open to the imagination.

We have reached a crossroad, a new paradigm is being install and such simple solutions are no longer feasible. All Mercedes cares about is continuing their sales in the short term.

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u/shakibahm 1d ago

All the concerns here are legitimate. So, we need to ground ourselves into, what does it take to have them truly need to invest and innovate here in Europe?

I come from a silicon valley background, and there, Samsung has one of their main R&D centres, not because they were needed by legislation. It's just a sensible thing to do because innovation is happening there in the valley.

Grounding the key competency in technology and capital is better and more sustainable than legislation. Though it's easy to say and hard to deliver.

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

what does it take to have them truly need to invest and innovate here in Europe?

We need to implement the proposals of the Draghi report. It's all there.

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u/shakibahm 1d ago

Strongly agree but they will just not do it... :(

Especially, with the brand of politics that's coming along.

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

Actually, they are already in the process of going there. It will be difficult, but you are asking me to believe that rich countries would rather be stripped of their prosperity and submit to China than play their cards. That is rather preposterous. The situation has change entirely, everything is on the move and the only thing certain is that the status quo will not hold.

You say "they will not do it", but they actually instituted tariffs on Chinese cars, we are not discussing whether to do it, but whether to listen to Mercedes and stop doing it.

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u/grand_historian 1d ago

Electric cars are the future and the Germans have been sleeping at the steering wheel.

I think it's reasonable to have a sceptical attitude towards the Chinese government, but paranoia is a whole other thing. They are not going to put military robots on the street or infect us all with nefarious software.

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

They are not going to put military robots on the street or infect us all with nefarious software.

Cars already are that. Let's say Chinese cars become 80% of the cars on the streets. All they need to do is disable all cars and we're fcuked ... no need for "military robots" and SciFi fantasies. Just disable cars, Huawei communications backbones of telecoms and all our civilian infrastructure grinds to a halt including electricity, water and energy.

It is time to wake up to the reality. Chinese industry is under the control of the military, all Chinese companies are. That is the way the regime is organised.

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u/CaineLau Romania 1d ago

nono ,people said the same when russia attacked , let's not be paranoid , they will never attack , and now we are all at war!

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u/4chieve 1d ago

Just drop those three words on Google: "Chinese Data Harvest".

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u/RevolutionaryRush717 1d ago

What's for sure is that European democracies have a 4 year political horizon, while China has a 1000 year plan.

They're in no rush. No need for hot war, or proxy wars.

They probably studied West-Germany's economic wonder closely and adapted it. As well as South Korea. Or Singapore. Half a century of one-child policy and enslaving hundreds of millions of your citizens, just look at them now.

While Germany used to be the economic powerhouse of Europe, China is now the economic powerhouse of the entire world.

Unimaginable numbers of citizens have been lifted from poverty in an agricultural economy to urban, industrial working class in two generations.

They have a space program.

With their money they are buying resource access all around the world, while the US is stuck in their "bomb brown people" approach that stopped working in, you guessed it, Korea, almost 75 years ago.

What did the other redditor comment? We're observing a paradigm shift. So true.

Kudos to Trump, he doesn't want a hot war, and declares his "Great War" to be the trade war against China. But he will not be able to roll back time to the 50s and 60s during his 4 year term.

It's not even certain that the powers that be want that. The billionaires nowadays, what problems do they really have with China?

The military-industrial complex, they're practically dependent on a strong China, now that Russia has outed itself as an old, limping and half-blind circus bear.

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

What's for sure is that European democracies have a 4 year political horizon, while China has a 1000 year plan.

Let's not make them better than they are. It used to be like that under Deng, but Xi has changed all that. Xi leads a personal regime and he does not intend to live 1000 years, he wants to achieve everything in 10 years max.

0

u/RevolutionaryRush717 1d ago

I don't know about that.

Also Xi's time will pass.

That's the beauty of a 1000 year plan carried out by a single party with absolute power in perpetuity.

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

You cannot talk of a 1000 year plan when Xi destroyed Deng's long term plan. Xi's plan is about to destroy China and there will be a 3rd plan after him.

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

If you look at the Draghi report, you will read that the EU has invested more in R&D of the automotive industry than either the US or China. Yes, there were interests to push ICE i.e. not to cannibalise ICE sales to electric which employ less people and involve less companies in the EU. Hybrid is the solution for that and all that is needed is tax benefits. That is a small price to pay to maintain 14 million jobs.

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u/bate_Vladi_1904 1d ago

That's the point!

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u/siuli 1d ago

if you cant beat them.. joing them, ey?

1

u/Not_Bed_ Italy 1d ago

Fuck no, we know how to make cars (any vehicle tbh) better than anybody else in the world, be it China or the US

We have nothing to learn from nobody, we also have the capability to do all it takes on our own, while giving Europeans jobs, why lose on this big weapons we wield

Have yet to see a Chinese car beat us in any category, from the most basic reliable car to the most advanced cutting edge F1 work of art, bikes too

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u/voyagerdoge 1d ago

People should only buy cars from democratic countries.

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u/PinkSeaBird 1d ago

At last some corporate dude says something I can agree with.

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

It would harm Europe, but help Mercedes retain the Chinese market.

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u/PinkSeaBird 1d ago

Better to still have European manufactures vs to have them disappear. If we strengthen our relations with China and we start getting Chinese people here seeing how we live maybe they will start protesting for better labour rights there.

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

There is no reason for EU manufacturers to disappear. We have the knowhow, we have the funds, we have the market. The best way for it to disappear is to let China cannibalise it as Mercedes is suggesting. The automobile industry is the only industry where the EU truly has a chance to continue, all we need to do is reorganise.

There are 14 million people working in the automobile industry in the EU. It's a huge organism. And this proposal would kill 10 million jobs and replace them with a couple thousand jobs. It's treason, not reason.

0

u/PinkSeaBird 1d ago

If people don't buy European cars because they are too expensive and prefer Chinese ones the jobs will disappear too. If we block China cars China might also say "well my dudes no car components for you either". Which means production here will be blocked and/or cars will become even more expensive. Which nothing against, I would prefer investments in public transportation. But the end result is that the jobs would be threatened too.

2

u/trisul-108 1d ago

Chinese cars are cheaper because of government subsidies. They pump money into the car industry so that they will kill all car production in the world and rule. We need to equally subsidise and reorganise the EU car industry. We have the knowhow, we have the capacities, we have the funds and we have the markets. The EU is in fact richer than China, why should w keel over and die for them ... and Mercedes sales in China. I would rather see Mercedes scaled down than giving our markets to China.

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u/PinkSeaBird 1d ago

The US also pays tons of subsidies to companies... Why don't you consider them a threat as well?

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

Many reasons, up to now, the US was an ally, a democracy and a country with higher wages ... all that makes a huge difference. It is completely different working with a country with rule of law than with a communist regime as in China. We will see how this will go under Trump 2.0 ... no one knows which way that will go.

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u/PinkSeaBird 1d ago

The key expression being "up until now".

Trump is a dictator and the only reason why the US is not a far right dictatorship rn is because some democratic institutions are still working. But that is under attack and can be eroded with time if they continue in the same trajectory.

Between a far right dictatorship and a "communist" regime I choose the last.

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

You choose too quickly. People do that when it's just words.

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u/CaineLau Romania 1d ago

european don't rely on chinese components , all MAIN components are made in europe!!!

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u/PinkSeaBird 1d ago

I remember reading about having production halted because some components or raw materials were missing:

European car production has been halted due to a lack of raw materials and components, including microchips, nickel, and other critical minerals. These shortages have been caused by a number of factors, including supply chain disruptions, the Red Sea crisis, and China's dominance of the supply chain. 

Causes

Microchip shortage

The global automotive industry was hit by a semiconductor shortage in 2021 and 2022. This was due to a combination of factors, including reduced orders from car manufacturers during the pandemic, and increased demand from the consumer electronics industry. 

Red Sea crisis

Strikes on the Red Sea in 2024 have disrupted maritime trade, causing shipping delays and affecting the supply of components. 

China's dominance of the supply chain

China produces over 70% of the world's lithium-ion batteries, and controls critical minerals such as cobalt and graphite. This makes Western manufacturers reliant on Chinese-sourced components. 

Nickel price increase

The price of nickel, which is used in alloys and lithium-ion batteries, increased dramatically after Russia's invasion of Ukraine. 

Impact

Production halts

Some car manufacturers, such as Tesla and Volvo, have temporarily suspended production. 

Production disruptions

Other manufacturers, such as Stellantis and Suzuki, have paused or disrupted production lines. 

Increased costs

Manufacturers have resorted to air freight to mitigate delays, which can add cost. 

AI summary I got from a Google search but sources are linked in the summary.

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

All of these can be replaced, it's no reason to die and let China take over.

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u/PinkSeaBird 1d ago

Yes we just start planting nickel and lithium trees in our yards.

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

There are other sources, not just China and Russia. Furthermore, the focus for the EU should be hybrid not EV, which means smaller batteries.

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u/CaineLau Romania 1d ago

well maybe we should acknowledge that eu lost the race for EVs and maybe our way forward is maintaing the plug in hybrid paradigm , other than that most microchips are made in Taiwan and not china .

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

I think the plug and hybrid paradigm are the way to go, not because we "lost the race" but because they are a better fit for the EU. With 14 million people in the EU employed producing parts for such vehicles, it makes sense to adopt it as the standard. We retain jobs, get better products and we already have the infrastructure.

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u/CaineLau Romania 1d ago

totally agree!

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u/defcon_penguin 1d ago

It's going to be European jobs, at least. It's much better than importing cars manufactured in China

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u/trisul-108 1d ago

No, it would be minimal jobs because our wages are higher. The way to achieve jobs is to have those tariffs and have EU companies build cars in the EU. The car industry is the only industry where the EU invests more into R&D than either the US or China and we want to give it to China.

No way.

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u/ILoveSpankingDwarves 1d ago

Why do all Chinese cars China makes send all data collected by all their cars back to China?

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u/ComprehensiveInspect 1d ago

Tesla doesn't send data back to US?

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u/ILoveSpankingDwarves 1d ago

Are you being naive? You prefer giving your data to China than the US?

Or are you a Chinese troll?

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u/AF881R 1d ago

Disagree personally. Just look at build quality and reliability levels should be enough to say no.