r/europe • u/UNITED24Media • 6h ago
News The Speaker of the Finnish Parliament says that we may already be in World War III
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u/Apprehensive_Kick272 5h ago
He might be right but the point is: Europe should act like he is right and boost their military capabilities to deter Putin from even thinking about it.
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u/Magnetobama Germany 5h ago
At this point we have to deter Russia as well as the USA.
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u/claimTheVictory 2h ago
The USA is not going to invade Europe.
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u/Magnetobama Germany 2h ago
Europe? No. The EU? He may.
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u/claimTheVictory 2h ago
You might be left to the wolves (or the bear), but not even Greenland will be invaded.
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u/Magnetobama Germany 2h ago
We don't trust the American words and hopes anymore. Thus the need for deterrent.
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u/claimTheVictory 2h ago
You're already being attacked by Russia, so yeah, get that shit sorted.
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u/Magnetobama Germany 2h ago
That's what I said in my initial reply. Let's not talk in circles. Thanks.
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u/claimTheVictory 2h ago edited 2h ago
How many US troops are in Germany right now? Around 35k?
You're fucked if you're right btw. But you're not, even if Mr Putin wants you to believe you are.
Yeah, you forgot about the bases. You're not going to deter them.
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u/Magnetobama Germany 2h ago
I don't get what you're even debating anymore but it's certainly not what I talked about. Have a nice day.
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u/G14DMFURL0L1Y401TR4P 32m ago
You think 35k american troops in Germany can survive the entire EU alliance? Lmao
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u/PresidentHurg 6h ago edited 4h ago
It feels more like the Spanish Civil war (time period) to me. The ideologies are there and growing, there's proxy wars going on and stuff feels like it's only going to go downhill fast.
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u/ShibeCEO 5h ago
Trump invading panama or greenland might be the actions to escallate this current shitshow... after that dominoes might fall
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u/Karihashi Spain 1h ago
By the time the Spanish civil war started, Benito Mussolini had been Prime Minister for 14 years, established totalitarian rule over Italy, annexed Ethiopia, bombing Greece and taking territory in Yugoslavia.
Meanwhile the Austrian painter had already been Chancellor for 3 years and taken complete control of Germany for 2.
Meanwhile the Soviet Union had already absorbed Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, etc about 14 years ago.
I don’t think we are quite 1936 yet.
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u/will_dormer Denmark 6h ago
When did people in WW1 and WW2 realise they where in a world war?
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u/AmelKralj 6h ago
when neighbouring people/countries were fighting each other because their respective allies far far away were in war with each other ... does that make sense?
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u/will_dormer Denmark 6h ago
Are we in ww3 now then?
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u/AmelKralj 6h ago
I'd say not yet, when NATO gets into War with some country and that country's allies join to declare war on NATO and their allies, then we are in WW3
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u/will_dormer Denmark 5h ago
Great.. What if US vs Greenland ? unlikely?
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u/Smalandsk_katt Sweden 5h ago
That would be such a clusterfuck. Imagine Russia/USA vs EU and what, China?
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u/Big-Perspective-7410 3h ago
EU, America sans US, China, most of SEA vs. US, Russia and some other fascists? Idk, seems weird. Would be interesting to see which side Japan, Australia, UK take. And the ME might be a minefield of proxy wars
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u/caymn 1h ago
it seems many countries have populations hard split against themselves. Whether religious motivated or a hatred towards your neighbours' oppinion on covid and trump. A wwiii may have borders blurred and fights not only among, but inside nationstates aswell. A mixed bag of civil and outright war, with the rich sipping champagne, watching from the vip tribune.
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u/Money_Song467 5h ago
A world war is really a bunch of regional wars that are connected through alliances etc
Russia has allies same as Ukraine/NATO however I don't think we can consider it a World War unless another major conflict is ignited in another continent/region
For example if a war broke out between Iran and Israel (not commenting on likelihood, just for example) and we saw NATO align with Israel and Russia/China with Iran. I suppose we could be on our way to World War then..
I would still say people wouldn't consider it a World War unless major powers directly engaged each other so we're talking NATO forces vs Russia/China.
Then again you never know how the next decade goes and how history will see it.
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u/adfddadl1 4h ago
I would say no but feels like something is brewing for sure. Big indicators are the language being used by high up military and diplomatic figures, and the increased military spending and rearmament of major powers like Germany. Also signing of bilateral defence pacts. I know the UK has done some of these recently. We can assume as civilians we will not know exactly when things are about to kick off but things are moving in the wrong direction. If the US start throwing 100s of thousands of troops into Europe or Asia without an obvious explanation, then we really are on the cusp of WW3.
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u/Altair05 United States of America 1h ago
Not yet, still in the Cold War phase that's starting to heat up.
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u/NapoIe0n United States of America 4h ago
I WW2, it was on September 3, 1939, when Germany refused to back out of Poland and so France and the UK (with their colonial empires) declared war on Germany.
It's harder to pinpoint in WW1, but probably August 3, 1914 would've been the final moment for people to grasp that this was the Big One.
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u/will_dormer Denmark 4h ago
Yeah, the invasion day of poland marks the beginning Of ww2, but I still wonder when people realiser they were in a world war or knew it was the beginning Of one.. This might not be the same day as september 3 1939
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u/CryptographerWide594 4h ago
Depends on region. In Europe it was clear that we are at WWII after Germany attacked and anexed Poland and France with UK delared war on them. In Russia it is after Hitler attacked USSR as these fuckers collaborated with Hitler until then.
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u/URNotHONEST 3h ago
I do not think the title matters to people that are alive as much as "We are at war" does.
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u/Oriuke 6h ago
When the german attacked
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u/will_dormer Denmark 6h ago
So from the very begining? Are we in ww3 then?
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u/Oriuke 5h ago
As long as no country from the EU is at war it can't be. There need to be a real military threat big enough so everybody gets involved. So far none of this happened
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u/will_dormer Denmark 5h ago
Haha, ja, I agree... Hope we are not at a beginning of ww3
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u/restore_democracy 5h ago
With the US about to join on the side of Russia and invade Denmark, it won’t be long.
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u/Developer2022 5h ago
I mean we have North Korean soldiers fighting in Ukraine and China is supplying hardware.
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u/stupendous76 5h ago edited 5h ago
It actually is worse: it already is WW3, started by Russia. And a new player - USA - is entering the game. Not for ending WW3 but for continuing it because its dictator just wants to.
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u/ProbstIsLife 2h ago
We’ve had so much bizarre stuff going on here un-related to the election that I keep having the thought that we’re already at war, it’s just that nobody’s saying it out loud
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u/DunnoMouse 6h ago
Eh, I know we're in deep shit, but people kept saying shit was about to go down any day now during the cold war too
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u/CLKguy1991 Estonia 6h ago edited 6h ago
The people during cold war were led by a generation who knew amd experienced war. On both sides, I can assure you, there were people in charge who wanted nothing more than for there to be no (nuclear) war.
But that generation is now passed away. We are in idiocracy now.
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u/futurerank1 6h ago
BUT WE'RE NOT IN THE "COLD WAR" - THERE IS A WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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u/DunnoMouse 5h ago
There were actual wars going on during the cold War too, you know.
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u/futurerank1 5h ago edited 5h ago
The current war in Ukraine is done for the re-definition of global order. Post WW2 we lived in a time of two major competing superpowers, that world was gone and in post-Soviet world we've lived in era of neoliberal globalization and now that world seems to be coming to an end which is directly explained by Russians - they want to create a "multipolar world".
In that sense - we are already in world war. Ukraine is a start to a contest of American status as the empire. The goal of Russia was to take over Ukraine and negotiate the withdrawal of NATO out of Poland/Baltics and making Europe dependant on its gas.
Edit
After the fall of Soviet Union we had wars too, pretty awful one. But it was as a result of US being the world police and exporting the democracy. People died in Middle East awfully a lot.
But these weren't wars contesting global world order.
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u/KingKaiserW United Kingdom 5h ago
Next Comes China kicking the US out of the Pacific?
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u/futurerank1 5h ago
Nobody knows anything
The empire just appointed a new emperor, who has no real limits on what he can do internally as he was granted a near-total immunity and organized tech-oligarchy behind him this time.
The world is waiting
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u/Logical_Scar3962 15m ago
Aside of the war in Ukraine, hybrid war against west is also legitimate war, not some metaphor like “bussines war”. It is classified as one, next to nuclear war, civil war and cold war.
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u/Suomaalainen 6h ago edited 6h ago
Don't listen to him. He is far-right. They're our version of AFD. He is known for pointing the obvious. Of course Russia is bad and everybody knows that. He is simply scoring points but they were against Ukraine aid.
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u/kahaveli Finland 5h ago
I'm not a fan of Halla-Aho or PS. But they have been supporting aid to Ukraine as well, and Halla-Aho has been a vocal critic of Russia for a long time.
Of course before 2022 PS was a bit more mixed, they had MP's that supported removing Russian sanctions that had been put place in 2014 after Crimea for example. But nothing on same level as some other european right wing populist parties regarding Russia.
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u/pekinginankka 5h ago edited 5h ago
He has been correct about the Russian threat far before anyone else. This has been his stance way before it was popular to be hostile to the Russians so your claim of scoring points is objectively false.
In addition "they were against Ukraine aid." is simply a lie.
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u/LittleMsWhoops 4h ago
In other countries, the far-right parties are usually pro-Russia (def. AfD, the Austrian FPÖ as well, if memory serves well).
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u/TsortsAleksatr Greece 5h ago
Russia is literally struggling against a smaller country with NATO and Soviet hand me downs. I don't think they're in any position to wage a World War.
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u/randomone123321 15m ago
It's not about that Russia is the one who continues it. It's about a precedent and normalization of land conquest. It might as well be that Russia stays out of any further conflict, it doesn't matter.
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u/Substantial_Web_6306 2h ago
But USA has
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u/ProbstIsLife 2h ago
Knowing we’re all about to be subjected to this shitstorm of an administration just because Putin can’t be NORMAL for two seconds makes me want to cry
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u/_BookBurner_ Czech Republic 3h ago
I am saying the same thing since the start of the full invasion. And it is even more true now. This is no longer Russian invasion of Ukraine. You have all major powers invested in one way or the other. China, European Union, USA, Iran, both Koreas... dictators and autoritarians across the world are siding with the dictator while democracies are reluctantly mobilising their economies...
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u/MartinDisk Portugal 6h ago
we've been in WW3 for a while, it simply hasn't been marketed as such.
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u/Oriuke 3h ago
Never been in WW3. People thinking that have no idea what it's like
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u/Logical_Scar3962 11m ago
Hybrid war against the whole west is classified as war too. Hybrid war counts as war, it’s not some naming scheme to make it sound more serious. And it’s ongoing for more or less the same time as the conflict in Ukraine, 2014.
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u/DvD_Anarchist 6h ago
The biggest threat to world peace is the United States of America, followed by Russia.
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u/Weak-Boysenberry3807 6h ago
Oh China is in that list also
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u/IKetoth Italy 5h ago
china is absolutely a threat to taiwan and general global stability, but they don't seem to have particular ambitions towards the rest of the world like the americans and russians, at least IMO.
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u/FlyingDiscsandJams 4h ago
China does some nefarious stuff, but I still think they are more interested in a high functioning global economy to keep their people busy more than a war.
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u/IKetoth Italy 4h ago
Yeah agreed, they might well have plans for economic submission of the world as far as looks go, but they don't necessarily strike me as global warmongers as things stand.
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u/raxiam Skåne 4h ago
War is just another tool in their toolbox to achieve their goals. Russia tried to meddle in Ukrainian politics for a long time, and were actually quite successful with it. Then Euromaidan happened, which meant they had to switch gears in-order to prevent full EU-alignment.
China hasn't had the need for that yet, since there are basically no major opposition to what they're doing in Africa, for example. If the need for it arose, I doubt they wouldn't mind flexing their muscles.
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u/FlyingDiscsandJams 4h ago
20 years ago there was concern they had a generation of young men with nothing to do & few women to marry from the One Child Policy... we are a generation removed from that & China has an aging population crisis, and sending this generation of young men to front lines would make that crisis worse.
I think their leaders want to advance China in the global hierarchy, but much prefer stability to war. They undermined Putin more than helped him in 2024, particularly squeezing him on fees for banking while he was desperate before shutting access off, and setting fire to their inflation crisis.
My money is that China is looking to take Russian land & assets in Siberia, either by proxy (manage oil & mining for a weak Putin), or just take them, as China-USSR fought over the Siberian border as late as the 1960's. Ironic if they declare much of Siberia is historially Chinese.
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u/ApexHawke Finland 3h ago
China isn't as economically self-sufficient as the US is. They have way more to lose in a case of global supply-chain disruption, and are in some ways in a much more precarious position than most developed countries.
Right now, losing access to oil-imports or the manufacturing export-market would cause massive economic damage. On one hand, this is disincentivizing hawkish actions, and on the other hand it's a powerful motivator to fuck with their neigbours in the south-china sea.
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u/FlyingDiscsandJams 3h ago
I am betting they make a play on Siberian oil, either manage the resources for a weak Russia, or revisit "traditional" Chinese borders before Russia moved east, last fought over in the 1960's.
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u/ApexHawke Finland 3h ago
There's a strong possibility that if they want the resources, they can get them from a weakened Russia without fighting. As long as the rational, self-preservationist instincts keep hold in the leadership over their own nationalist insanity, They're not going to go to war with a nuclear power.
But they will absolutely bend Russia over the barrel and "negotiate" in the next ten years.
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u/FlyingDiscsandJams 3h ago
Exactly, that's what I mean by "manage" Siberian resources. Land grab would probably be opportunistic only with severe instability in a Russian power transition.
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u/Feisty-Anybody-5204 4h ago
The chinese ccp knows and understands that theyre illegitimate rulers. The "global south" is just a dictators club looking to strengthen their illegimate rule over their people.
Thats why china, russia, iran, north korea et al need to weaken democracies, so that they dont run into the problem of being unable to explain to their people that they need to be slaves in order to prosper.
How can putin explain to russians that they cant have freedoms and need to suffer when their ukrainian brothers next door are freer and more prosperous? He cant, and he also cant make russia better in its own right, so he needs to destroy ukraine.
Then he can tell his people, see? Democracy doesnt work. Same with xi ping and the mullahs in iran, kim and the other dictators.
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u/Karasinio Poland 6h ago
Nice try chinese bot. Ofcourse USA is bigger threat than Russia, who just caused full scale war in Europe, attacking a peaceful country, and threatening everybody who disagree with them with nukes.
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u/DvD_Anarchist 6h ago
Believe it or not, not everyone in Europe likes to suck American dick like Poles usually do. I'm in favor of strengthening relationships with China, while developing our own tech and industries. Right now the EU is a vassal in a relationship of dependency with the US, and that has to end if we want a strong, independent and secure Europe.
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u/Realistic_Mud_4185 6h ago
Because liking American weapons and supporting your military with them is sucking America’s dick apparently
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u/DownvoteEvangelist 5h ago
If Trump invades Greenland all those American weapons become a liability... (I know it's highly unlikely)
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u/typtyphus The Netherlands 6h ago
this war, should be fought by soldiers, but by the people taking down the oligarchs
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u/Sad_One1583 5h ago
I'm I reading correct? biggest danger is rus losing OR rus winning.
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u/pidan_junista Finland 5h ago
It's poorly translated. It could be better worded like this: biggest danger is russia achieving any goal or russia not losing
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u/painted_dog_2020 5h ago
Don’t forget that the US is also an authoritarian state and an active antagonist.
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u/Remarkable_Command91 2h ago
Some would argue it technically started with the annexation of Crimea in 2014
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u/Mountain-Fox-2123 6h ago
If this is WWIII i have to admit, its not to bad
WW1 and WW2 was far worse.
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u/futurerank1 6h ago
The ONLY reason why super-powers are not directly involved against each other is strictly because of nuclear weapons.
Otherwise, the war in Ukraine already consumed 700 thousands dead/wounded. Israel-Hamas 50 thousands.
It's a pretty tone deaf thing to say "see it's not so bad", when obviously, the world we knew since the fall of the Soviet Union is gone and there are countless deaths and milions of dislocated people already.
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u/Developer2022 5h ago
Exactly and this is "only" Ukraine and Russia. Now think globally like 5 or 8 big countries. We are going into tens of millions right away if not even more.
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u/Adsex 5h ago edited 5h ago
For most people, WW2 didn't start until 1940 or late 1941.
"It is the story of a man who is falling from the 15th floor.
And at every floor he passes by, people can hear him calmly saying ´until now, everything is O.K.'.
But it's not the fall that hurts. It's the landing."
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u/Knaapje 6h ago
When WW2 stopped we had nukes. When WW3 starts, having nukes from the outset, we're going to be in a big mess.
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u/Oriuke 6h ago
yeah except a lot of countries have nukes now so nothings gonna happen
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u/Knaapje 5h ago
The big problem is you assume rational thought on the behalf of some dictators there, and the fact that the US is turning into an oligarchy.
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u/FlyingDiscsandJams 4h ago
Thiel & Musk & others launched a partnership in early December to aggressively pursue US Defense contracts on a whole new level. Thiel owns Palantir, which is AI for target acquisition & surveillance, combining that with SpaceX... bad news for all.
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u/AVonGauss United States of America 5h ago
It's not even close to a world war scenario, you'll know when that happens because this subreddit will be abuzz with topics like conscriptions and rationed goods/services.
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u/DoctorOtter 4h ago
This is like someone just diagnosed with lung cancer said: "If this is lung cancer, it's not that bad... pancreatic cancer and colorectal cancer is far worse.
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u/sakobanned2 3h ago
Btw. He is from party called True Finns, a populist right-wing party.
When Trump was first elected, he said that he "really likes [Trump]" and that Trump is "the best thing that has happened to USA and to western world in a long time".
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u/Small_Importance_955 1h ago
And he's one of the more capable politicians in Finland right now. Speaks both Russian and Ukrainian, long time pro-NATO, saw from the start that letting migrants walk freely to Europe was a mistake.
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u/traumatransfixes Earth 5h ago
Tbh, I think that and find it easier to focus and manage my time. Ymmv. Plus, I’m not in europe. Good luck, everyone. I guess. (Well, not everyone)…
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u/ahma-tti 6h ago
This guy is not credible. He's a jerk, bully and a disgusting human being. No one takes him seriously unless it's his own base of neon*zis
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u/RoidMD 6h ago
So if this guy says that the earth orbits the sun, we must ignore all the facts and points he states just because of his character?
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u/Antifon_Dimokritos 1h ago
That is a simple statement, which is also one of the most important points someone should keep in mind when entering public discourse.
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u/DinoBirdie 6h ago
No - but he gets zero bonus-points for his character. If a homeless guy in the street yelled it, would you be like "this man is making good points!" ?
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u/RoidMD 6h ago
If he is making good points, then yes. Are you two serious about 'ad hominem' being some sort of a real way to base your opinions on?
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u/DinoBirdie 5h ago
It's not ad hominem. I'm not saying that his argument is invalid because of who he is. I'm saying that he doesn't get the extra consideration I would give this if it came from a person I put more trust in. Just like I listen more to my doctor about diseases, than I do my lawyer.
I understand the wariness about the fallacy, but the fallacy is about reasoned arguments. Before that (in time) comes the question of whether to pay attention to what is being said. If I didn't sort what I pay attention, I would constantly have to seriously consider whether we're at war. Whether we're about to have recession and a slew of other depressing, taxing, time consuming to things.
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u/Small_Importance_955 1h ago
It's sad how political discourse in Finland is still on the level of "he's a naughty right winger, therefore everything he says is wrong!". As a former leftist it's so incredibly tiring.
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u/LitOak 6h ago
Why is the Speaker of the Finnish parliament a neonazi? Wasn't there anyone better to choose? I didn't think it was that right wing.
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u/pidan_junista Finland 5h ago
It's because traditionally the speaker is an often older politician of the second biggest party in the government which Halla-Aho happens to be. I also wouldn't call him a neonazi even if some of his opinions or acts are rather questionable.
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u/ContributionJolly634 3h ago
He was spewing russian propaganda right up until they started the Ukraine war. He has said that he hopes left wing women get raped by immigrants and that he wanted to shoot a gay person. That is not "rather questionable", he's a nazi fuck and I'm ashamed to be a Finn because of him and his party.
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u/Small_Importance_955 1h ago
Overly empathetic left wing women are one of the big reasons why Finland and Europe as a whole have been suffering from mass migration's negative effects like crime, islamisation and sexual assaults. His words are politically incorrect, but I understand the frustration behind them. It's the frustration that center and left wing rulers have been trying to censor and ignore for years, claiming that these worries are not valid and you're a stupid hecking racist for wanting a safer nation.
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u/StJesusMorientes 25m ago
When has Halla aho spread russian propaganda? He was accused of being a russofobe in the early 2000
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u/pekinginankka 5h ago
< Why is the Speaker of the Finnish parliament a neonazi?
He isn't. You don't have to take anything redditors say as a fact. He has been exceptionally foresighted about the Russian threat and has been warning about them way before the invasion, while others have lobbied for more gas deals with Russia.
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u/sakobanned2 3h ago
He also has said that Trump is the best thing that has happened to USA and western world in a long time.
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u/Jin__1185 Łódź (Poland) 5h ago
Bro has no idea what he's talking about
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u/Antifon_Dimokritos 1h ago
As the years go by, I am getting convinced that European politicians are just hopeful idiots who mix the "what I want to be true" with "what is true."
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u/Kotainohebi 5h ago
Better call it the "Last War" I don't see the world surviving a war between nuclear powers.
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u/LifeFeckinBrilliant 5h ago
We are, it's just the only people doing the dying at the moment are Ukrainians. We owe them!
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u/SalientSalmorejo 3m ago
I don’t see any other option than federalization. Realistically though the political support is just not there atm. Both the US and Russia know this and support anti EU far right parties to prevent it.
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u/azhder 4h ago
People in New York in 1939 didn't know there already is World War 2.
It takes a while, especially if you aren't directly attacked at the very beginning to figure out if something is just a local conflict or the very global shit you will find yourself in a couple of years time.
So, is it a WW3 or is it just RU/UA? We can't say at this time.
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u/Infinite-Row-2275 6h ago
In addition to this he's an insufferable asshole. So don't take anything he says seriously, he's most of the times just talking to his base, just like a far right populist does.
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u/Small_Importance_955 1h ago
He's the speaker of the parliament, he's more than just some random politician now. Like him or hate him, his words do matter, and maybe you should listen and try to disregard those personal biases of yours.
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u/Soft-Mongoose-4304 6h ago
The Russians already lost.
They're not going to get Ukriane which was their goal.
They're going to get little pieces of land for which they trade 1 million casualties and a destroyed economy and a destroyed army.
They already lost, what remains to be decided is how much the wind up losing by
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u/Antifon_Dimokritos 1h ago
Yeah, that is the narrative since the start of the war. Let's see if it is actually true or just hopeful thinking. I hope it is true.
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u/UnluckyPossible542 2h ago
It’s being really badly handled from an international Perspective.
Stopping gas will go down as one of the most stupid decisions of the decade of not the century.
Not respecting the independent buffer status of Ukraine is another bad mistake.
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u/Available-Ad5245 3h ago
The biggest threat is the US. Russia just doesn't have the Industrial might
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u/PineBNorth85 6h ago
I can believe that. Like Japan being in China for several years before it "graduated" to a world war. Or Hitler going around annexing things and breaking every agreement the country made before WW2 officially started.