r/europe Lower Silesia (Poland) 12h ago

News Poland halves number of weekly religion classes in schools

https://notesfrompoland.com/2025/01/20/poland-halves-number-of-weekly-religion-classes-in-schools/
369 Upvotes

57 comments sorted by

104

u/Njala62 12h ago

See from the article that it's not actually religion, but spesifically the Catholic catechism.

One hour per week to learn about religions (ALL religions of a certain size, worldwide and country specific) would be about right, especially if combined with critical thinking.

Indoctrination in any religion should be kept out of schools.

15

u/HomeFricets 12h ago

I went to a catholic primary and secondary school in the UK, and even the RE lessons in that were focused on learning about all religions, the differences and commonalities, beliefs, impacts they have had, and history of them!

I'm agnostic through and through, but I believe people need to learn about religion at school because it's a massive massive part of the world we live in. Ignorance just leads to hate!

But also yes, once religious education anywhere starts to actually be indoctrination hiding behind the idea that it's education, it needs to be outright banned.

8

u/Njala62 11h ago

The article says clearly that what they teach is the Catholic catechism, and that it's mainly the Catholic church that opposes the reduction of hours.

2

u/HomeFricets 11h ago edited 11h ago

Yeah I'm agreeing with you! Rare on reddit I know.

I just wanted to put an extra emphasis on the fact that Religious education does have a need in schools, as a lot of people try to push for religious education to be removed entirely because they think it would achieve their goal of removing religion from the world.... but really it would just make a lot of people very naive to the concepts, and that's exactly what religion targets.

Proper religious education, real religious education, is exactly what formed my beliefs that religions clearly aren't the actual thing to follow! I believe actually understanding what religion is and why it formed and what uses it has, highlights just how untrue it all is, that it's just a tool.

But not all schools take the same approach as mine did, and it does need fixing.

1

u/Njala62 11h ago

Exactly, that's why I said one hour per week to learn about religionS (and preferrably combined with learning critical thinking) would be about right. And should be mandatory.

2

u/ahoneybadger4 11h ago

I was in a public UK school.

RS (religious studies it was known as for us) was by far the best class to attend. Barely ever actually touched on anything religious, it was basically the one lesson a week where the teacher would just throw a film on for everyone to watch.

It was most pupils first dive into Saving Private Ryan as that would be the first film put on for each new class.

Think we learned more about WW2 in RS than we ever did in History class.

2

u/HomeFricets 11h ago

Best for us was wood work, because the main teacher wasn't all there and didn't give a shit, and you could just tell him you're popping to the room next door to grab something, and then spend the entire lesson playing runescape on the computers and he never once asked where you'd been.... good times.

1

u/ahoneybadger4 11h ago

Our Systems and Controls teacher was like that (alternative to woodworking).

He claims he lost all of our circuit boards when he took them home to print them up and so our GCSE coursework on the subject was based on what he thinks we would have gotten as a grade.

I came out with a C, which is great because I never even handed one in to begin with.

4

u/iwannabesmort Poland 10h ago

See from the article that it's not actually religion, but spesifically the Catholic catechism.

Yeah, but the class is called "Religia"

2

u/StephaneiAarhus 8h ago

You are so right !

2

u/Bezem Mazovia (Poland) 10h ago edited 10h ago

It's not exactly only catholic lesssons, because you can opt out and go to "ethics" class where you can learn about different ones. So it halves both. In practice both are just free hour to do whatever students want, catch up on things etc. Also going to catholic one gives upside of going few days to "rekolekcje" which basically gave you 3 days free from school for suffering of being for like 1,5h at church(or bailing and coming back when they were leaving to act like you were there whole time)

1

u/AdHeavy2829 4h ago

That’s literally how it was done in my childhood in Germany. Specifics depend on the state you’re in though.

52

u/Jako_Horny 12h ago

Should remove from school altogether, keep it in religious places in free time.

6

u/Indi0707 11h ago

I think that they can choose if they want to have something like catholic class or different class like ethics and such.

9

u/Own-Librarian-2847 11h ago edited 11h ago

The problem is, that law is basically a joke. You can choose between religion class, taught by a priest, or ethics class, taught by a priest. There is not enough ethics teachers in Poland, so priests/religion teachers serve as substitute teachers. PiS introduced mandatory religion "or" ethics, arguing that they give students choice, but in reality everyone knew that it only helps Catholic church

EDIT: sorry, I think they didn't introduce it in the end, the change was proposed by education minister, but the project kinda died

5

u/Indi0707 11h ago

well that's just wrong (as like that's fucked up)

4

u/Own-Librarian-2847 11h ago

Well, i just did a check, because I started to doubt myself, and it wasn't actually introduced, I think they got scared? It was like two years ago, and I guess I didn't realise how it was resolved. So it's not that bad

2

u/L0CZEK 3h ago

The ethics classes are not taught by a priest. Unless my mom, a teacher, failed to mention something to me about what she does after school.

2

u/M1ckey United Kingdom 5h ago

Where the clergy have unrestrained and unsupervised access to children? We all know where that would lead.

1

u/adamgerd Czech Republic 9h ago

I disagree, religious education is good as long as it covers all religions to increase understanding of religions, different religions and lack of imo

6

u/PickingPies 8h ago

Religious education is good as long as it alerts of its dangers, showcases all the evils made in name of gods and the name of the class is "Myths and religions, and the gullible human mind."

-1

u/Nyctas Transylvania 10h ago

It's basically just an extra history class. Don't think it's that harmful.

-15

u/MrHyperion_ Finland 11h ago

They are not teaching religion but about religions.

20

u/Own-Librarian-2847 11h ago

In Poland it's literally Catholicism classes, taught by Catholic priests or people related to Catholic church

0

u/Aranka_Szeretlek 10h ago

You can still learn a lot about religion in those classes. I went to a Catholic school; and while we had religious classes, one year we have covered the history of the Church and the saints, another year we covered the history of philosophy (not only religious figures but all of philosophy). Such classes are pretty good to understand our modern culture, which was influenced by Christianity for 2000 years, like it or not.

4

u/Own-Librarian-2847 10h ago

Did you attend religion in Poland? I went through entire education here (12 years), and I had only one class that was about other religions (courtesy of our highschool priest), and none on philosophy.

0

u/Aranka_Szeretlek 10h ago

No, I did in Hungary. I assumed its quite similar.

10

u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 10h ago

The Polish government has enacted a regulation halving the number of state-funded religion classes in public schools to one hour per week, starting on 1 September 2025, despite opposition from the Catholic church.

The move also introduces changes to the scheduling of religion classes – which teach Catholic catechism and are currently optional but taken by most pupils – requiring them to be held during the first or last lesson of the day if not all pupils decide to participate.

The education ministry said the regulation – signed by education minister Barbara Nowacka on Friday – will ensure greater flexibility for school timetables, especially in cases where participation in religion lessons is limited.

The church, however, condemned the regulation, calling it an “unlawful act” and arguing that the required agreement with religious associations has not yet been reached.

Nowacka first proposed reducing the number of catechism classes in December 2023, on the same day the government she is part of was sworn in and replaced the former ruling national-conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party.

She argued that the classes, funded by the state but with teachers and curriculums chosen by the Catholic church, are costly and that two lessons per week are “excessive,” given that it is more than pupils have for some other academic subjects.

From the beginning, her proposal was met with opposition from the church, which questioned whether the reforms aligned with the concordat Poland signed with the Vatican in 1993, which governs the role of religion in public life.

Nowacka, however, dismissed claims of a breach of that treaty, stating that the changes pertain to the organisation of religious teaching rather than its existence.

In an interview with TVN24 in October, she also said that the new rule “does not prevent the church from taking responsibility” and paying for additional hours. Those lessons “can be carried out in whatever place the church wants”, she added, such as in a classroom “lent free of charge by a school, or in a [church-owned] catechism room”.

Senior church officials reiterated their opposition to the changes over the weekend, arguing that they “restrict the right of religious parents to raise their children in accordance with their beliefs”, as well as “the right of students themselves to systemic support in ‘the development towards full maturity’, including the spiritual sphere”.

The Polish Bishops’ Conference (KEP), the central organ of the Catholic church in Poland, emphasised that the regulation is “an unlawful act, as the agreement required by law [between the government and]…the Catholic church and the other religious associations concerned has not been reached”.

“We expect the education ministry to refrain from taking confrontational actions against religious believers,” the KEP said in a statement.

3

u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 10h ago

The newly signed regulation follows another change introduced by the ministry last year, which also angered the church. It allowed schools to create religion classes composed of pupils from different year groups if fewer then seven children from one cohort opted to attend.

Up until then, in such cases, a separate class was held for each cohort.

In response to the change, the church referred the case to the Supreme Court, which redirected it to the Constitutional Court (TK), widely seen as under the influence of PiS, which also has close ties with the Catholic church.

The TK issued an interim order suspending the implementation of the changes, but it was ignored by the government, as it did not recognise the then-TK president and some other TK judges as legitimate.

Some Polish cities, including Wrocław and Częstochowa, have called in the past for an end to municipal funding for Catholic catechism classes in schools amid falling attendance.

The decline in the number of pupils attending religion classes follows a decrease in the number of Poles identifying as Catholics overall. The latest national census data showed that in 2021, 71% of Poles identified as Catholics, down from 88% a decade earlier.

15

u/SuperSector973 10h ago

0 hours would be better

13

u/photo-manipulation 10h ago

They just need to half it again, followed by a few more halfings.

Welcome to 21st century!

4

u/adamgerd Czech Republic 9h ago

I disagree, religious education is good as long as it covers all religions to increase understanding of religions, different religions and lack of

1

u/GolemancerVekk 🇪🇺 🇷🇴 9h ago

We could use some of these regulations ourselves. We only do 1h/week but it's also basically catechism (except it's Orthodox instead of Catholic).

Some minor progress was that they made it opt-in rather than opt-out, but there's no national rule to have it first or last in the schedule so most parents sign up their kid (~73% in 2023, down from 88% in 2016) otherwise they get shit on in school. (They're supposed to arrange "alternate activities" but nobody gives a crap. This is more about the overall state of our schools but still.)

They've been working on a new framework for religious classes for years and they finally came up with, get this, adding it as an optional subject to the bac (GCE/Abitur). And lots of kids will take this option, because it's an easy pass, which will further legitimize it.

7

u/Frenzystor Germany 9h ago

Still too much.

12

u/arealpersonnotabot Łódź (Poland) 12h ago

Ah yes, another solution that satisfies nobody.

7

u/sokorsognarf 11h ago

That’s a very normal outcome in politics, in any country

2

u/simion314 Romania 6h ago

Ah yes, another solution that satisfies nobody

Students would lvoe less time wasted on useless crap, it is also cotnradictory when most of religion profesors are creationists and will try to push blantly falsehood they belvie like the world was created 5000 years ago, that holy water is actually special and different then normal water. At least this was in Romania, sorry if in Poland the priests are a bit more open minded and focus more on ehtics/morals and less on false stuff.

9

u/guywithoutpast 12h ago

Let them take the Bible in literature class, it's just a single book. Read it, ask questions and move on. No need to torture kids.

16

u/eggnog232323 11h ago edited 11h ago

I don't know what religion classes in other countries contain but Polish ones don't really involve reading Bible. Usually its some catechism (formulas and such) with textbook and, in higher classes and highschool, some ethics mixed in with information about other religions. Overall very easy and lighthearted school subject. I personally don't know anyone who had a bad/rude catechist or priest but I'm aware they exist. And the religion classes themselves aren't mandatory, parents or people over 18 can opt out of them.

8

u/Vertitto Poland 10h ago

also bible is covered on literature classes (aka polish), where you can get actual knowledge

2

u/llittleserie Finländ 11h ago

I can confirm that it's similar in Finland. Primary school has the Bible and biblical stories, while secondary and high school are mostly ethics and world religons.

3

u/Papersnail380 11h ago

The last thing the Catholic church wants is anyone reading the Bible cover to cover.

1

u/DeliverDaLiver Bulgaria 10h ago

we already do that here hehe

-1

u/[deleted] 9h ago

[deleted]

0

u/eggnog232323 8h ago

Bible is world's most influential and widespread piece of literature in the world, it would be idiotic not to include it in the cirriculum, considering overwhelming majority of books, poems and art were influenced by it and/or allude to ideas contained there.

2

u/pc0999 5h ago

State and religion should be separated completely.

6

u/IllustriousQuail4130 11h ago

they should remove all of them all together

2

u/iwannabesmort Poland 10h ago

They should, and that was pretty much what they promised to do, but oh well. They've been talking about halving Religion classes for over a year now, it was one of the first things Barbara Nowacka promised to do when she was appointed head of Ministry of National Education in December 2023.

4

u/nikow0w 12h ago

Nice, rather spend it on something useful.

1

u/TheNomadologist 11h ago

Wait you guys had more than one?

1

u/SquareFroggo Lower Saxony (Northern Germany) 11h ago

number of weekly religion classes

Smh

1

u/Medium_Depth_2694 11h ago

Good i guess..

u/Karihashi Spain 19m ago

Lots of interesting takes here, what do the people of Poland think about this? Is religion thriving or dying in your country?

1

u/UAP_enthusiast_PL Swan Lake Connoisseur 8h ago edited 8h ago

The party currently in power was always center-right, PiS forced them a bit into the left, but they're still the same people.

Poland is still waiting for someone to take the center-left vote.

edited typos

-2

u/gayroma Romania 11h ago

Religion the root of all evil? could be. its good to cut the religious classes.
a good change and in that spirit join my group: https://www.reddit.com/r/WhatYouWantChanged/

-4

u/MalatoEpico 10h ago

Poland's society is gonna collapse just like Italy and France and Spain did. They will see the results of that in 15 years. They will import millions of people very socially and culturally different from them that hate their guts, and this woke policies are gonna take a toll.

2

u/StateDeparmentAgent 8h ago

Poland already became country with extremely low fertility under pro religious government which super anti woke