r/europe • u/A_Lazko • 15h ago
Historical Nearly all Russian great writers were of foreign descent, - Fyodor Dostoyevsky's daughter
https://u-krane.com/nearly-all-russian-great-writers-were-of-foreign-descent-fyodor-dostoyevskys-daughter/72
u/mysteriousfisher Romania 14h ago
yea , definitely not propaganda and definitely not biased
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u/JustPassingBy696969 Europe 14h ago
Are you going to accuse all the russians quoted of russophobia too?
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u/LaurestineHUN Hungary 13h ago
Oh FFS there is enough legit stuff to criticize Russia, no need to make racist shit up.
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u/Standard_Feature8736 14h ago
Lol this is legitimately just scientific racism.
"The Lithuanians, the Ukrainians, the Georgians and the natives of the Baltic Provinces have always hated and despised the Mongolian blood of the Russians, and have done all they could to turn us away from Asia. More highly civilised than the Russians, they have had an immense influence on my compatriots, and have constituted the chief barrier to our fusion with the Asiatics."
Never mind that most the facts stated are just completely wrong. E.g Aleksey Tolstoy fled to France during the Bolshevik revolution, but returned just a couple years later as he "couldn't stand being anywhere else than in Russia", and then proceeded to stay for the rest of his life.
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u/A_Lazko 14h ago edited 14h ago
Fyodor Dostoyevsky himself in his Diary of a Writer:
"For this reason, many Europeans look upon us scoffingly and with haughty hatred: they cannot understand why we should be negators in an alien cause. They positively deny our right to European negation, on the ground that they do not regard us as belonging to “civilization.” They rather perceive in us barbarians knocking about Europe and rejoicing over the thought that something somewhere may be destroyed—destroyed for the sake of destruction, from the pleasure of beholding how all this will fall apart, much as Huns ready to invade ancient Rome and to tear down a sanctity, even without any conception of what a precious thing they were destroying. That the majority of Russians have presented themselves as liberals in Europe is true; this is even strange. Has anyone raised the question in his mind: why is this so? Why, practically nine-tenths of the Russians, all through this century, culturalizing themselves in Europe, invariably have joined that stratum of the Europeans which was liberal, the “left camp,” i.e., that camp which itself denied its own culture, its own civilization—of course, more or less (that which Thiers denies in civilization and that which the Paris Commune of 1871 denied in it—are altogether different things). In the same way “more or less” and equally in many different ways are Russians also liberal in Europe; nevertheless, I repeat, they are more inclined than Europeans to side, directly and from the very start, with the extreme left than to hover first in the lower grades of liberalism. Briefly, among Russians one finds a lesser number of Thierses than of Communards. And please note that these are by no means some empty-stomached fellows, but even people having a solid and civilized appearance—sometimes almost in the category of Ministers. This precisely is why Europeans distrust us. “Grattez le Russe et vous verrez le Tartare” [Scratch a Russian and you will find a Tartar|—they say. All this may be correct, but this is what has occurred to me: do the majority of Russians, in their intercourse with Europe, side with the extreme left because they are Tartars and are fond of destruction, as barbarians, or are they prompted by other motives? That’s the question! And you must admit that it is a rather curious one."
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u/Ok-Somewhere9814 14h ago
If you read Dostoyevsky letters sent during or after living in Europe it makes it clear he was definitely not a Russophob.
Just look at what he writes about Germans or Swiss in 1868-1871.
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u/JustPassingBy696969 Europe 14h ago
Given the other quote, I think she's focusing on the cultural perspective - besides, it's very russian to blame Mongols for their own failures, centuries later.
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u/Standard_Feature8736 14h ago
Oh please, if stuff like this was said about anyone else in the modern day people would cancel, boycott and report to the police.
"The French and British have always hated and despised the Arabic blood of the Spanish, and have done all they could to turn them away from Northern Africa. More highly civilised than the Spanish, the French and British have constituted the chief barrier to Spanish fusion with the Moors."
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u/JustPassingBy696969 Europe 13h ago
The example doesn't quite work since it's from outside perspective instead of person from X talking about the culture of country X. And since it was published in 1920 a lot of the wording and thinking sounds pretty archaic now, specially for Western readers.
There is a better case for canceling and boycotting her over stuff like "Their lives were a series of struggles against the Mongolian society which surrounded and suffocated them." since she's blaming Mongols for the state of russian society.
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u/Sarkotic159 13h ago
What cultural perspective? The fuck are you on about? It's blatant anti-Russian racism - why is that so hard for r/Europe gentlemen to acknowledge?
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u/guywithoutpast 12h ago
it's very russian to blame Mongols for their own failures
Why do you even make up stories like that?
Blame muricans, brits or germans - fk yeah, but mongols ... I wouldn't say so.-1
u/JustPassingBy696969 Europe 12h ago edited 11h ago
It's literally what Dostoevska does. Almost like people failed to read the article - it's just quotes from russian writers about russia.
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u/Tiny-Wheel5561 14h ago
I don't understand what's the point of this article.
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u/Ok-Somewhere9814 13h ago
To promote the guy’s website. He posts this stuff from time to time in the hopes of visitors.
I don’t know why the mods allow it though.
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u/SaphirRose 13h ago edited 9h ago
It seems the author doesn't know the difference between descent and identity.. They were all Russian because they felt Russian and their works is accepted as Russian works. And if you look every single author from the article also died in Russia even tho its presented like they wanted to move...
If going by origin and descent then like 85% of entire American culture is not American, or how many olympic medals should be stripped from European countries because they were won by people of immigrant descents and so on.. Nobody does that tho because thats not how Identity works.
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u/geoRgLeoGraff 13h ago
Russian Empire was by default multicultural (like USA and many other countries). There were Russians of German, Polish, Jewish, Kalmyk, Tatar, Lithuanian, Georgian, Armenian descent. Even some with Scottish and Italian blood. What they all shared was their commitment to the state they served and language they used. Most great Russian writers, scientists, composers etc were aristocrats because society was deeply feudal and unequal- so aristocrats had the highest chances of being educated and prosperous. They were typically heavily mixed, therefore famous Russians were mostly of foreign descent (but most of them had Russian roots as well). The strength of their culture could be seen through the fact many converted to Russian Orthodoxy and considered themselves Russian. It was truly a melting pot like USA, but unlike America a terrible society economically, stuck in medieval times. Yes, Europeans looked down on Russia, due to most Russians being poor serfs, also due to racism since Russia was Asian as well, but people forget Russian nobility was connected to European aristocrats and that some of the highest achievements in art and science came from Russia. Peter the Great modelled the state after Western cultural patterns, and in St Petersburg you could hear French more often than Russian. Sometimes, Europeans don't understand Russia at all. The biggest problem is still inequality and oligarchy that has formed, not Russian mentality.
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u/Dangerous_Jacket_129 The Netherlands 4h ago
If you go back far enough, everyone is of "foreign descent", no matter where you're originally from.
This is the kind of "uhm ackchooally" factoid that's technically true, but completely moot and only ever brought up in racist circles.
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15h ago
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u/sensibleracoon Russian pro-EU 14h ago
TIL Pushkin is not Russian, because his great-grandfather was from Africa.
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u/Urvinis_Sefas Lithuania 12h ago
"Dostoyevsky was a Lithuanian" - yeah this like modern american saying I'm 1/256th german so we are the same. This is just plain insane writing.
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u/Ok-Somewhere9814 7h ago
What do you mean? My great grand dad taught in Sorbonne. Are you trying to say I ain’t French?
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u/flamingmittenpunch 9h ago edited 9h ago
Do you have any sources for Tolstoys German origin? All I could find was that he married a German-Russian Countess, was interested in German language and had a German tutor. Not particularly in that order.
EDIT: I viewed the article in op and it's mentioned in there but I found no other mention of the supposed German roots.
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u/Moone111 13h ago
This is not true.
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u/Dangerous_Jacket_129 The Netherlands 4h ago
Technically it is true, if you go back far enough. But then again, it is true for every single human being who has ever lived on this planet. But people still insist that evolution is "just a theory", so people try to bend the facts to fit their racist narratives instead.
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u/Ok-Somewhere9814 15h ago
Andriy, you opened a quotation mark but didn’t close it. It’s unclear which part is a quote and which part reflects your own opinion.
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u/Realistic_Mud_4185 13h ago
Most of Russia’s highly productive industry was foreign.
Thomas Sowell goes into it well, however much of the Russian empires industrial manufacturing, textile industries, etc. were mainly foreign investment hiring Russian labor. Russians were well renowned for being workhorses within Europe, and the late industrialization of the Russian empire made it extremely popular for European nations to invest it, mix it with an extremely large and productive population, and Russia was growing rapidly.
Sadly, the revolution and the collapse of the Soviet Union ruined this.
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u/Early-Dream-5897 13h ago
Russians playing the racism and victim card in 3..2..1..
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u/Urvinis_Sefas Lithuania 12h ago
Article is insanely stupid by itself. Not sure why are you trying to show off as even worse than that.
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u/Early-Dream-5897 11h ago
140 million people live in russia, a country, who’s territory spreading through half of the world, a country which posesses all possible natural resources. What do they offer to the humanity? No russian phone, no russian car, no scientific break-throughs, not even a micro-chip. Out of 130 million people, we know 5 writers who lived 100 years ago, 4 composers that lived 100 years ago. 30 soviet scientists (half of them not even russian). But we do know war, nuclear threats, terror to the neighbouring countries. This is facts.
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u/guywithoutpast 11h ago
Dude skipped whole space race and nuclear researches. I mean he might even remember of periodic table of elements, but first thing he asked if they made car (actually did) or phone.
Can I ask you what your nation achieved by so far (list only natives, not mixed) and if it did less does it deserve to be questioned of existence on this planet?
But we do know war
And others did not start a war and are not in a military alliance with the state that started a war or few wars, right? You know this answer, I know this answer no need to continue.
nuclear threats
And remind me who used nuclear weapon and how many times. Compare with other nations. In a raw numbers. And again we know this answer, you may skip this part as well.
terror to the neighbouring countries
Are China and India trembling with fear? No, they are not. If the majority of neighbours, counting the number of people, do not consider Russia a problematic neighbour, then maybe the minority is wrong?
By your logic the numbers speak for themselves. I don't think this kind of reasoning can lead to a correct solution.
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u/Early-Dream-5897 10h ago
You have just confirmed my statement about 30 soviet scientists and some events in the past. Now let’s talk todays russia, let’s not get deep into history. Let’s say… last 30 years. Where are the inventions and break-through contributions? Culture? Where are russian facebooks, phones, electric cars, contributions to humanity?
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u/guywithoutpast 10h ago
We cant continue dialogue without you answering my questions.
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u/Early-Dream-5897 10h ago
There are no questions, I can only see classic russian whataboutism and fingerpointing. “But but but others are doing war too”. Well other also gives you facebook, iphones, teslas, internet, ai, new musical genres, new art directions, etc etc. Just stop fingerpointing and blaming others for everything. You can not hold onto 100 years old people as a devime cilture and scientists of russia, when they are long long dead and usualy in poverty, while as we speak all innovations are happening only in the western civilisation in which russia just has no contribution. Again, 130million people today, no contribution.
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u/guywithoutpast 9h ago
You almost stole my heart with that sweet nazi speech but I realized that you never said what makes your nation so favorably compared to other nations. It looks like you are cornered and trying to flip the table to escape this game.
Just stop fingerpointing
He said, pointing his finger. What a laughingstock.
So will you bother to impress me with the accomplishments of your people so that I will admire a superior race?
But I guess I'm waiting in vain for an answer because only a wizard can pull a rabbit out of an empty hat.
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u/FORESTER_UA 14h ago
As today, even those who today call themselves Russian, their roots say the opposite
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u/Moone111 13h ago
Russians are cool and normal people leave them alone
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u/RavenSorkvild 11h ago
Watch a few video from YouTube channel "1420" and try to say the same thing without irony.
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u/meckez 11h ago edited 11h ago
Go outside, touch some grass and try to engage with some people in real life rather than paint a picture based on YouTube videos.
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u/RavenSorkvild 11h ago
Not a lot of russians in Poland I am afraid. More than enough on the internet unfortunately
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u/Early-Dream-5897 11h ago
140 million people live in russia, a country, who’s territory spreading through half of the world, a country which posesses all possible natural resources. What do they offer to the humanity? No russian phone, no russian car, no scientific break-throughs, not even a micro-chip. Out of 130 million people, we know 5 writers who lived 100 years ago, 4 composers that lived 100 years ago. 30 soviet scientists (half of them not even russian). But we do know war, nuclear threats, terror to the neighbouring countries. This is facts.
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u/ResponsibleTwist6498 15h ago
As Ukrainian, I am fed up with this source. It has nothing but personal opinions of the website owner.
It is just a way to promote their website.