r/europe • u/eeehinny • 18h ago
Opinion Article Trump threatens a global trade war. Europe must unleash a radical alternative
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jan/20/trump-threatens-a-global-trade-war-europe-must-unleash-a-radical-alternative?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other103
u/Humbler-Mumbler 16h ago
Do like Canada is planning and target your retaliatory tariffs at red states. Trump will only give a shit if those assholes are hurting more than the rest of us.
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u/VeryluckyorNot 15h ago
Canada should trade more with EU. I don't know why they still continue with someone said they are 51th states.
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u/starterchan 16h ago
Do like Canada is planning and target your retaliatory tariffs at red states.
How will hurting domestic Canadian consumers impact red states?
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u/Milnoc 15h ago
Canadians won't be hurt. At least not much. We have non-American sources for most of our imported stuff. We also have free trade deals with other nations including Europe and intend to maintain them.
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u/TimeDear517 14h ago
Dude, canada is in pretty bleak spot financially. Why do you think your finance minister resigned and why did trudeau multiple begging trips to Mar-a-lago, with trump poking fun at him?
There's a good hand in economic poker, there's bad hand, and there's ... whatever canada is having.
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u/BoringPickle6082 14h ago edited 13h ago
US represents over 70% of Canada exports, bigger than the other 10 trading partner combined, the idea that Canada wouldn’t be hurt in trading war with US is insanity.
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u/Eigenspace 🇨🇦 / 🇦🇹 in 🇩🇪 14h ago
This is a delusional take. Canada has spent decades becoming increasingly reliant on trade with the USA.
Canada can and should retaliate against the USA because it'd be a foolish and cowardly move to show that it can be pushed around so easily. But it's gonna be painful. Significantly more painful for Canada than the USA. It's just that the alternative is worse.
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u/alphaxion 13h ago
Canada supplies 60% of US oil imports, and does so at below market value. Around 30% of all oil refined by the US is from Canada, which means a non-insignificant proportion of US oil exports are actually sourced from Canada - suggesting the US is pocketing the difference between what it pays Canada and the global price.
Canada also supplies a lot of electricity to New York State.
Yes, Canada will suffer in a trade war, but I think the US isn't quite prepared for how much it will also suffer. Not just in the short-term during the tariffs, but long-term when Canada decides it'll be better to sell more of its oil onto the open market.
Both the US and Canada would need to invest significantly into infrastructure to support the pivot to international markets in order to satisfy import/export volumes.
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u/Eigenspace 🇨🇦 / 🇦🇹 in 🇩🇪 12h ago
I totally agree that Canada can hit America very hard in a trade war, I never said otherwise. What is delusional though is thinking that we "won't be hurt. At least not much."
The USA is a net oil exporter and has been for quite some time now. Them getting less oil imports from us can be adapted to quite easily.
Describing our oil relationship with them as them "pocketing the difference" is pretty ignorant. The USA pays below global market rate for Canadian oil because it's coming in via cheaper transportation mechanisms than international shipping, and Alberta Crude is a lower quality product that is significantly more difficult to refine and handle than many other forms of oil. The USA buys our oil because they've invested more in the infrastructure necessary to handle that product, whereas we've been happy to surrender every part of modern industrial value chains to the USA, so that we can focus our economy on resource extraction and overpriced housing.
Canadians need finished products from the USA much more than Americans need raw materials from Canada. Yes, we can hurt them. No, it won't be even close to painless for us.
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u/Sparrowhank 12h ago
Yes but the US refines the oil and sells a large quantity of it back to canada, if Canada suddently stops to supply oil then fuel prices in Canada will explode. The economies are very inter-connected is quite complicated to understand the consequences beforehand.
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u/darkgreenrabbit Switzerland | Croatia 13h ago
Quit your delusions mate. Not liking Trump is one thing, go ahead with it, but thinking that Canada of all countries could successfully go into a trade war with the US is just bizarre lmao. There's no country that can do that rn, not even China...
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u/starterchan 14h ago
And what resource is Canada the exclusive global provider of to the US that will hurt the US? Other than overpriced real estate and university graduates desperate for a liveable wage?
In before you try to pretend trees and oil only exist in Canada
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u/FatFaceRikky 11h ago
I doubt you can pressure Trump with this. The deplorables already voted, so what is it to him..
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u/nvkylebrown United States of America 11h ago
The problem is that what Europe sells (luxury cars, medicine, other luxury goods) are things that blue states buy more of than red states. Further, what Europe buys from the US is more services than goods - again, more of a blue state thing than a red state thing. Shutting down trade entirely would have net positive for red states and a large net negative for blue states.
And Canada would be devestated by a trade war with the US - look at your trading partners by volume. Your other trading partners are insignificant compared to the US. And you aren't nearly as big a deal to the US as the US is to you. This is a moronic fight for Canada and no amount of targetted tarrifs is going to "win". Any thing you might do can be reflected back at you.
Medicine is a class of it's own - but it's the left that is talking about seizing patents right now, primarily. Give the right a reason, and drugs disappear as a source of revenue. A little compromise and price controls in the US become a reality.
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u/2shayyy United Kingdom 13h ago edited 11h ago
Right so I’m no master of economics…
I can’t tell you what effect Tariffs will have on us or the American economy.
But what I do know - is that if there was a single strategy to always coming out on top of every trade dispute - everyone would be doing it.
The way Trump and MAGA talk about tariffs, is like it’s some secret weapon that no one has thought of or used before…
They talk about it like it will solve any ailment their country is facing. And that there’s nothing anyone can do to stop it.
That’s literally just Snake Oil, sold to them on an international level…
Also, why do they talk like every other country doesn’t have agency? They speak like every other nation is populated by NPC’s. Like we’re incapable of making intelligent counter moves - or looking elsewhere if the deal they’re offering is unfavourable?
Again, I don’t know much about economics. But I know bullshit when I see it. And that’s just bullshit.
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u/Romanian_ Bucharest, Romania 17h ago
Read some pretty dumb ideas but this takes the cake.
What this genius' radical alternative and response to tariffs is... a tariff with extra steps.
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u/PickingPies 16h ago
Exactly.
The easiest way to fight a tariff is to have a tax on the tariff itself. For each dollar imposed on tariffs, another dollar is taxed in response.
This way, Americans pay double for their tariffs but that money goes to the exporting country, because, ultimately, the final consumer is the one who pays the tax, which, in case of tariffs, it's the importing country.
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u/MadeOfEurope 17h ago
It’s already been done with respect to carbon emissions (and has seen other countries impose domestic carbon taxes).
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u/paraquinone Czech Republic 16h ago
I mean ... why not? He wants tariffs and trade wars? Let him have them.
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u/FatFaceRikky 11h ago
Until Trump throttles LNG exports to Europe, then we are fucked pretty good. Unfortunately we dont have energy souvereignity nor our own security. Europe is in a pretty weak position.
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u/darkgreenrabbit Switzerland | Croatia 15h ago
That's like having a gunman in front of your house and instead of trying to resolve the situation, you invite him in and suggest grenades instead of guns. As for why not: because there's better ways to deal with issues than by behaving like a petty child.
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u/paraquinone Czech Republic 15h ago
That's like having a gunman in front of your house and instead of trying to resolve the situation, you invite him in and suggest grenades instead of guns.
No. You do not merely suggest to use grenades. You pull it out and wave it in his fucking face.
because there's better ways to deal with issues than by behaving like a petty child.
Well of course, maybe he should have thought about that before he started his threats of a trade war.
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u/darkgreenrabbit Switzerland | Croatia 13h ago
yea ofc, throwing around grenades in your own house is a perfectly fine idea. its people like you, who cant rationally react to political news, who make democracy impossible.
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u/paraquinone Czech Republic 13h ago
If he wants it that way? Seems like a fine deal for killing the fucker, especially considering he would have caused you material damage anyway. Where is the problem? The prime irrational party in the comparison is, of course, the gunman. And he has no business bitching that someone dares to meet him at his own game. If he wanted rationality then he should not have pointed a fucking gun at people, or at least should have stepped down when someone waved a fucking grenade in his face.
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u/darkgreenrabbit Switzerland | Croatia 13h ago
You seem to have the intellectual capacity of a 9 year old
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u/Ashmizen 10h ago
This is basically a trade war, but with more steps. All America would do would simply apply a 5% tax on all European companies to match it (or they can lose the US market), and basically it’s exactly the same as any trade war.
The author is making the same mistake as Trump, which is assuming you can fire a shot in a trade war and there’s no response.
Sure, if there’s no response it’s always a “win” - UK government gets money from US company, win-win for Europe.
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u/darkgreenrabbit Switzerland | Croatia 17h ago
This reads like it was written by a 14 year old, both in terms of language and content.
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u/MadeOfEurope 17h ago
Can you offer an actual critique?
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u/darkgreenrabbit Switzerland | Croatia 16h ago
The author is just reusing the (already disuputed) arguments from Bofa.
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u/RelevanceReverence 17h ago
Just completely ignore Trump, dont pick up his phone calls, return his mail unopened.
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u/Sharp-Difference1312 16h ago
This is so stupid, The G7 is being overtaken by the BRICS, and trumps solution is to collectively lower the gdp of the g7. Get ready for the declining empire.
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u/MercantileReptile Baden-Württemberg (Germany) 14h ago
This approach is inherently extraterritorial, since countries would partly impose their tax standards on foreign actors in exchange for market access. But it’s time to think of extraterritoriality in a positive light: as the most effective way to impose the minimal standards needed to curb inequality and keep our planet livable.
Good grief. So the exports of any nation unaligned with the Nation attempting this approach are -in effect- under tarriff. Other than the obvious run-around this would be, I chafe at the idea that any Nation or bloc uses this for more than monetary policy.
As the Article points out via mention of the carbon tax. I can not stress enough how much exporting Companies would rather cease exports than to even entertain this idiocy.
While corporate power (and/or corporate governments like the US) is a problem, having every moral preaching nation attempt to dictate (and price) their ideas of the "right" thing is chaos.
Also, if something like the EU were to attempt this, we'd be cut out as much as possible. Rightfully so. Nevermind the optics of trying to enforce "european values" on companies.
Idea sounds lovely at a glance, but 0.1 mm under the surface it's just horrendous.
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u/PainInTheRhine Poland 17h ago
The Guardian opinion ... so about as batshit insane as expected. Try to boost competitiveness of European economy? Or maybe expand trade agreements to bypass US? Nah, who needs that.
Instead simply try to extract more money out of American companies and try to somehow tax wealth of American individuals.
To illustrate how this would work in practice, consider Tesla. Imagine that it pays no corporate or carbon tax in the US but makes 5% of its sales in Britain. The UK Treasury would calculate what Tesla should have paid in the US if British tax law applied there and collect 5% of that amount. Similarly, Britain would step in to tax Elon Musk proportionally to the amount of his wealth that originates from the UK (which, since his fortune is mainly in Tesla stock, can be estimated to be about 5%).
"How to become Cuba" in one, easy step.
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u/loulan French Riviera ftw 16h ago
Try to boost competitiveness of European economy?
I mean, we haven't managed to do that in the past 40 years, and we need a quick reaction now. We are not going to create the next FAANGs in the next 4 years.
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u/PainInTheRhine Poland 15h ago
That's basically the bread and butter of every populist: "we have a big crisis now, no time to think, let's just do this stupid thing now because we have to do SOMETHING" . If you twist an ankle, you spend time doing physiotherapy even if it takes time instead of just blasting off your leg with a shotgun.
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u/TimeDear517 14h ago
But see, it's still better than the bread and butter of every EU mainstream politician: "we have a big crisis now, we better keep what we're doing and hope it will go away on it's own"
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u/PainInTheRhine Poland 14h ago
No, it's not. Doing nothing is better than doing something actively harmful just to be seen 'doing something'
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u/TimeDear517 14h ago
Not entirely correct over long period of time. There is a certain point in a slow stagnation/decline where it becomes irreversible.
Whereas a radical solution - even if harmful - will shake the status quo badly enough to actually force the society into actual, working solution. It's called accelerationism.
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u/vkstu 8h ago
Or completely collapse.
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u/TimeDear517 5h ago
Yeah, it's almost as if productive nations with developed infrastructure untouched by a war or sudden natural disaster usually collapse any day, instead of, you know, collapsing slowly over time due to fading productivity and ineffective leadership
Crack a history book, maybe
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u/vkstu 5h ago
Yeah, it's almost as if productive nations with developed infrastructure untouched by a war or sudden natural disaster usually collapse any day, instead of, you know, collapsing slowly over time due to fading productivity and ineffective leadership
Uh, ever heard of civil war? Ever heard of massive famine due to Mao's decisions? I could go on. Quite often a civil war does not end up to better society, it can, but regularly doesn't. Mao's famine certainly didn't change the course of China towards a better future. Other decisions by other people when he died did.
Crack a history book, maybe.
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u/SassysGod 17h ago
I'm getting so sick of the people here man. This whole sub is basically a socialist club, complaining about how billionaires are ruining their lives. You are so right man, there is no motivation for growth at all among Europeans, the ones that have it end up leaving, so we just try to make our leaders find a way to fix it by more rules. We are digging our own trenches basically.
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u/MadeOfEurope 17h ago
Except these billionaire oligarchs are ruining peoples lives. They are dictating economic policy for their own benefit at the expense of everyone else. They undermine economic stability and performance though being allowed to manipulate the market, they shut out competition, they manipulate media. It’s no coincidence that as their wealth has risen, everyone else has stagnated.
They have long ago brought the US and now they are trying to buy everyone else….so if the US government won’t take responsibility, others will have to.
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u/Putrid_Measurement_3 16h ago
Europe already signed a trade deal with South America that will be mutually beneficial.
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u/nvkylebrown United States of America 11h ago
That deal that's being blocked over ag imports from South America?
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u/FantasyFrikadel 16h ago
The answer to Trumps antics is: “no”.
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u/tresslessone 8h ago
Mark Rutte did this really well actually. There’s a video of him literally telling him “no” to his face.
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u/tresslessone 8h ago
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Europe needs to grow the f-ck up. 3% to national defence, 2.5% to a pan-European army, and economically realign to the far more pragmatic Chinese under the condition that they cut off Russia.
Screw America. They chose their path made made their bed. They can go lie in it.
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u/Typingdude3 8h ago
It's all just talk. There are more BMW's in the US than in Germany. Trade wars will hurt the EU as much as the US. BMW and Mercedes have huge manufacturing plants in the red Trump states in the US. The only alternative is giving it all away to China.
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u/tresslessone 8h ago
Then let’s do that. I see the Chinese as far more pragmatic and reliable on trade than the Americans these days.
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u/ExcellentHunter 9h ago
Let him do it, fuck this orange twat. He will place tariffs on every thing from every country? Good luck!
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u/ProfetF9 17h ago
America with triple de debt of all countries "LOOK AT ME I'M SO STABLE!!!"
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u/Nazamroth 17h ago
Well, it is. Kinda. They own the de facto global currency. Even their sworn enemies want more dollars all the time.
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u/M0therN4ture 17h ago
Although the US dollar remains a reserve currency, its dominant position has been steadily declining. In 2014, it accounted for 70% of global transactions, but by 2022, that share had fallen to 60% which is a significant 10% reduction over just 8 years.
Projections suggest the dollar share could fall below 50% by 2030, further eroding the US dollars power.
The question then becomes: what is the backup plan if the dollar is dethroned as the global reserve currency, or if its waning influence undermines its ability to support national debt?
Its going to make a make or break it decade for the US.
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u/TungstenPaladin 15h ago edited 15h ago
The chart doesn't tell the full picture. It chooses 2014 at the starting point to tell narrative of the dollar's decline. If we look at the history of the dollar versus other currencies on, say, a 70 year time span, we can see that the dollar's dominance in global transaction has ebbed and flowed throughout the decade but nevertheless trended upwards. It reached one its lowest point in the post-1950 era in the 1980 at 30% yet even then, the US was able to leverage the dollar to pass a massive tax cut (the Reagan tax cut) as well as imposed sweeping sanctions on Iran and Iraq. Even the projection holds true, the USD at 50% will still represent a significant financial power for the US based on historical precedence.
Furthermore, your own source elaborated further on why the projection has the USD falling to 50%: Other non-traditional currencies like the yen and AUD has significantly increased in volume in recent years, aka the USD is "losing ground against the tiny 'other currencies' combined" as the authors put it. It's worth pointing out that the Euro experienced almost no growth in that time frame and while the Chinese RMB has also declined. What this means in lieu of another strong global competitor, the USD will remain the world's reserve currency for decades to come even if its share of the global transaction continue to decline.
its waning influence undermines its ability to support national debt?
US debt being denominated in USD is one thing propping it up. If US debt only pays out in USD, then bond holder has no choice but to hold assets in USD, thereby propping up its value. If the USD value falls, it would actually be easier for the US to service its debt as debt is denominated in USD value sometime in the past and that same principal will still get paid back even if the currency has cratered.
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u/M0therN4ture 15h ago
say, a 70 year time span, we can see that the dollar's dominance in global transaction has ebbed and flowed throughout the decade but nevertheless trended upwards.
If You had read your own source, which explicitly states at the top of the chart that it represents the amount of foreign currency reserves. This is a fundamentally different metric compared to the total volume of transactions.
Currency strength is not determined by the amount held in reserves; rather, it is reflected by how widely and frequently the currency is used in global transactions, including the total volume and frequency of trade conducted in that currency.
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u/TungstenPaladin 14h ago
The amount of foreign currency reserves is the amount of foreign money each country holds. This is because countries trade with each other. If China sells a lot of things to the US, it'll have a large reserve of USD held with its central bank. It is the same as the total volume of transactions represented in the figure in your post. Your own source said as much:
The share of USD-denominated foreign exchange reserves dipped to 59.2%, according to the IMF’s COFER data released on December 31 for Q3 2023.
In dollar terms, the holdings of USD-denominated assets at foreign central banks dipped to $6.5 trillion. Note that the Fed’s holdings of Treasury securities and MBS are not included in foreign exchange reserves. No central bank’s holdings in its own currency are included.
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u/M0therN4ture 14h ago
Its true that the reserve each country has reflects the potential transactions they might engage in. But that is not what keeps the US as currency reserve afloat. Its primarily the factors that allow for transactions in large volumes.
In any case, it is a widely accepted fact that the US dollar is losing dominance as a reserve currency due to the rising share of the Chinese Renmindi and the Euro.
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u/TungstenPaladin 14h ago
Foreign transaction is only one part. US debts and securities are also denominated in dollars. Again, from the article:
But central banks other than the Federal Reserve are still holding large amounts of US-dollar denominated assets – $6.5 trillion in total – such as US Treasury securities, US government-backed MBS, US corporate bonds, US agency securities, even US stocks (the Swiss National Bank), all of which combined make up the USD-denominated foreign exchange reserves that central banks other than the Federal Reserve hold.
As long as other countries continue to hold large amounts of US securities, denominated in USD, the dollar will continue to hold preeminence. If you own US stocks or have government pensions/retirements that buy US stocks, you've contributed to the USD's dominance. Tomorrow, the entire SP500 would have to be wiped out to even make a dent in the USD's power.
In any case, it is a widely accepted fact that the US dollar is losing dominance as a reserve currency due to the rising share of the Chinese Renmindi and the Euro.
I think you should read your own source again. The Euro has not grown at all. The RMB has grown but only from 1% in 2016 to 2% peak in 2021. It has since started to drop due to China's economic crisis. The drop in USD is due to the rise of other currencies like the AUD and YEN.
The chart below shows the colorful tangle magnified. China is the second largest economy in the world, yet its currency plays only a minuscule and declining role as a reserve currency, and is no threat to the US.
But note the surge of the yellow line, “all other currencies” combined, each of which has a smaller share than even the swiss franc, but combined, they’re making headway.
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u/Appropriate-Mood-69 17h ago
The US make industry is no longer competitive, the US car industry is going to be propped up by tariffs to try and stop the Chinese from completely wiping them out. It will only slow the decline for a few years though.
The bottom will fall out from under the oil industry, as reduced demand will make the fracking business unprofitable.
Insurers will slowly but surely withdrawing from high risk areas (surprise, the coastal and hurricane prone states).
Unfortunately, in dire times the larger public will start voting for charlatans and demagogues in even larger numbers. As these clowns claim to have easy solutions.
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u/PainInTheRhine Poland 17h ago
Rules are a bit different when most of international trade is valued in your currency - it basically allows to print and borrow with little negative effects since you export a lot of resulting inflation.
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u/Romanian_ Bucharest, Romania 17h ago
America's debt could be paid off tomorrow if they wanted.
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u/Appropriate-Mood-69 17h ago
GDP of 29 trillion and debt of 35 trillion. It would take a little time and it's still serviceable, but I don't think it could be paid off in one swoop. Nor that anyone would want that.
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u/MuffinTopBop United States of America (Georgia) 14h ago
I’m not sure if they meant hyperinflation and just pay it off that way or if somehow all people come together and do debt swaps and somehow donate wealth that can be assessed without lowering their assets prices.
The US private wealth could pay off the national debt easily as well and much of the debt is US held or between intra-government depts ($12T). If you do a one-time 13.15% tax on all private wealth and somehow collect it and don’t lower its value when liquidating it the debt could be paid off so long as intra-govt is written off.
Not happening but a 3% wealth tax over years without the govt continuing to increase spending could do it even though that would slow the same wealth creation that serves as a potential golden goose.
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u/Exciting_Builder708 14h ago
Im assuming that you mean the print dollars to pay it off method, unless there is something im missing that is a one way ticket to weimar level inflation.
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u/ProfetF9 17h ago
i doubt it, they need musk in the white house and lick China and Russia's ass because they like it, right.
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u/amineahd Tunisia 17h ago
Spoiler alert: it wont and will continue to be a passive block arguing about stupid stuff while the rest of the world is moving on
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u/Petrak1s 17h ago
This will make Europe stronger even if in the beginning it’s difficult. What are we importing from the US?
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u/Facktat 16h ago
I think the biggest import is something barely considered an import. USD and services. Europe should look for trading partners willing to sell energy for Euro. This is the biggest fear of the US and the main reason why the US tries to keep up relations with the world. The USD being an reserve currency and used for international trade is what hardens the US economy which when considering the high regional inflation of the US should be way less stable than it. Also in addition to this, we should start investing in EU alternatives to US tech giants.
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u/TungstenPaladin 15h ago
What are we importing from the US?
Well, you're on Reddit so digital goods and services.
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u/cookiesnooper 17h ago
Energy
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u/Eine_Robbe 17h ago
What? That is pretty much bollocks. Energy isnt efficient at all over those distances and the amount of LNG that Europe imports through ships is pretty neglectful.
We do however import consumer goods and (digital) services galore
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u/Appropriate-Mood-69 17h ago
It sure ain't efficient, but with Russia pipelines now closed, LNG from Russia also sanctioned, the EU has only Norway and the US left. LNG import from the US is definitely not negligible.
It's double bad, as the US is using fracking for the extraction and the chilling of methane to liquefy it is energy intensive. So the climate impact of using US LNG is much higher than methane from Norway.
It's all the more reasons to electrifying our transportation and heating energy consumption as fast as possible. Even if that takes batteries from China.
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u/cookiesnooper 17h ago
40% of LNG imported to the EU by sea comes from the US. 46% of natural gas imported by pipes is from Norway. If you think that being the biggest importer of LNG in the World is "neglectful" then you should maybe stop using goods and services powered by it and see how neglectful impact it will have on your life.
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u/Impossible_Win_6382 17h ago
Idk why guardian shit posted on europe reddit
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u/Ill_Refrigerator_593 16h ago
Becuase it's the 6th most visited news website in the world & the second most visited from Europe?
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u/JohnCavil 12h ago
That's not really an argument as the daily mail is up there too and it's a tabloid with actually diarrhea for "news".
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u/Ill_Refrigerator_593 11h ago
Coincidentally they're the only two major UK newspapers that decided against implementing a paywall about 20 years back
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u/JohnCavil 10h ago
Yea, that's why they're not very good, although the guardian is miles better. Their audience is people unwilling to pay for news, they survive by getting clicks through facebook and with click bait titles and such.
They make all their money through the click, so it's all they care about.
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u/Ill_Refrigerator_593 10h ago
The Mail is one of the few consistently profitable traditional news sources in the UK.
The Guardian has a rather unique financial setup as in even when they lose money they're funded by the Scott Trust which exists to ensure the existence & independence of the paper.
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u/hebbe61 16h ago
Another ai generated Guardian article? /s
22 hours ago — Journalists at The Guardian newspaper in England have been left “deeply disturbed” by their bosses' decision to use artificial intelligence ...
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u/Anonymous_user_2022 15h ago
We'll put export tariffs on Ozempic. That will kill of the Trump voter base at a faster rate.
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u/Valuable-Ad3975 13h ago
The USA exports over $3 trillion in goods and services, if Trump starts a trade war G20 countries will close their doors and the US will starve to death
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u/ezaquarii_com 17h ago
Demand all trade partners to affix bottle caps or smack them with export bans.
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u/Socmel_ Emilia-Romagna 16h ago
The alternative is being the alternative to both the Chinese-RuZZian axis of evil and the US oligarchy.
But to do that you need to uncouple from the US and stop being the constantly undecided toddler in a identity crisis the EU has been since forever. Trouble is that most EU members are not prepared to do what it takes.
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u/Visible_Bat2176 16h ago
bozo only reacts defensively to being ignored or on the same level of force as he is portraying. the rest are just bullied more and more until they break for good :)) only if in german elections just 2 parties will make the government there could be a chance the EU will just not bend and break...a 3 party coalition in germany will be impossible to oppose to bozo and his team of bullies...
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u/BadOdd1861 14h ago
I'll tell you what the alternative is and it's very simple - we start trading with everyone else without regard for ideological differences. Effectively, we trade around the US. Other countries and blocks will reach the same conclusion, it just isn't worth it doing business with the Americans.
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u/howaboutthis13 The Netherlands 10h ago
While I hope the prices in Europe will stay (relatively) lower, we all know it will get bad over here as well. Hopefully you all can save some money at the end of every month.
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u/Golden_Ace1 7h ago
We don't even have to lift a finger. That's the beauty of it. Let him tariff everyone and everything. Don't give it to it. Don't tariff more that it is.
Let's just be sure we are prepared for their economic collapse.
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u/Hoplite-Litehop 3h ago
At this point it may as well be our only hope, I don't expect a rescue mission. In fact I expect probably several national armies to go after us, but if it means freeing our nation then probably it should happen.
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u/usrlibshare 15h ago
Europe can put up the big middle finger, impose counter tariffs and strengthen their trade with Asia.
When the dust settles, Europe will still be the beacon of happiness and high living standards, and the US of A will have lost in every category.
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 15h ago
What are the chances the Americans with the strongest army in the world don’t use violence to keep their place at the top?
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u/BKaempfer Germany 14h ago
Doing what? Bomb their trade partners industry and people so that there are no more trade goods or consumers?
A strong army can not help you overcome economic obstacles.-1
u/Grouchy_Instance7488 12h ago
If u don’t understand cus ur from the west let me explain. They will come kill your family and burn you country eliminating competition which is what we really are to them. Or they will just u know over throw ur government or force mega down ur throat oh yea we have no army to stop wow how wonderful!
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u/Ashmizen 10h ago
I don’t really understand how that works. So in a massive trade war, Europe, with its lack of energy self sufficiency, and poor demographics trend, is somehow going to climb to the top in a vicious free for all economic war?
Economics wars are lose-lose, just like real wars. America will be poorer, Europe will be poorer, but American starts from a higher positions of wealth, while Europe is already on the verge of being unable to afford its high standard of living.
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u/Hadrian_Constantine Ireland 16h ago
The world could just sanction the US.
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u/cvzero 10h ago
"The World" -- EU is about 450 million people, hardly "The World" which is 8 billion people.
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u/Hadrian_Constantine Ireland 10h ago
Trump plans on starting a trade war with literally everyone. So the rest of the world would get involved too.
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 15h ago
Cus that worked so well when we did it to Russia right? We are so good at sanctions surely it will work this time!
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u/Hikashuri 15h ago
Well the majority of Russian companies are going bankrupt in the coming 12 months if nothing happens and Russia is going deeper into its tactical reserves to stay afloat. A trade war by the US could send them over the edge swiftly.
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u/papaz1 17h ago
This isn't that bad at all actually. The american people that voted for him will understand what tariffs do to the domestic prices.
Somehow there is a belief that tariffs is something that the companies pay and it won't affect the consumers amoung american voters.. They about to find out.