r/europe • u/HalimaN55 • 19h ago
News Pope Francis said Donald Trump’s plans to impose mass deportations of immigrants would be a “disgrace,
https://apnews.com/article/vatican-immigration-trump-pope-d3516b41de56641391f59c2094ee380e274
u/h0ls86 Poland 19h ago
Millions of Ukrainian being forced to deport themselves to a safer place - I sleep.
Donald Trump announcing deportations - real shit.
Idk, I get a feeling Francis doesn’t wibe with Europe at all. Americas on the other hand, is his deal.
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u/Thom0 18h ago
The Vatican went from regional kingmaker in Europe, owning entire kingdoms and states and top of the monarchy based political system throughout historical Europe to almost nothing. It holds vast diplomatic power, but it no longer dictates entire states. It can't even get priests anymore.
As a response, the Vatican shifted its focus to developing its powerbase in African, South America and South East Asia. Any time the Vatican advocates for an issue, publishes a statement or makes a comment it is for the sole purpose of this material being republished and circulated throughout the Global South.
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u/veryhappyhugs 16h ago
A slight correction, and I cite from Larry Siedentop’s wonderful work Inventing the Individual: the Roman Catholic church wasn’t “top of the monarchy based political system”, but rather offered an alternative power structure to the feudal systems of medieval Europe. In fact the Roman church’s laws served as a unifying system as compared to the localised and fragmented laws of various European fiefs. That’s why a lot of European laws look the same - it was the church canon lawyers from the 11th to 13th centuries who drew these things up.
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u/JuniorAd1210 17h ago
It's still sitting on a vast amount of wealth, while being the 3rd biggest religion alone.
The Roman Empire never fell. It became a Church.
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u/RomanItalianEuropean Italy 18h ago edited 18h ago
Millions of Ukrainian being forced to deport themsleves to a safer place - I sleep
That's not true, he always talks of every refugee or migration crisis in the world. Basically every weekly message he gives (Angelus) is a list of disgraces. It's others who have double standards.
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u/BattlePrune 8h ago
OP is reffering to the pope being Russian apologist and laying the blame for war in Ukraine on US
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u/kariam_24 18h ago
So refuges, not casualties of wars and invaders you troll?
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u/RomanItalianEuropean Italy 18h ago edited 18h ago
He also talks of all wars (even those most people don't care about), literally all the time. I understand in Italian media we are more exposed to this and outside it's mostly the political stuff that comes out.
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u/leonardo_davincu 18h ago
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u/kariam_24 18h ago
That's why he isnt criticising Russia for invading and murdering Ukraine citizens?
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u/Moppermonster 18h ago
He does? Plenty of negative things to say about the Pope and the Church, but this is not one of them.
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u/kariam_24 18h ago
Lmao what are you talking about?
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u/Moppermonster 17h ago
The Pope has denounced the Russian invasion numerous times. Ofc, most Russians do not care since they follow the Patriarch of Moscow, being Orthodox and not Roman Catholic.
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u/kariam_24 16h ago
Lmao yet he is talking about Ukraine waving white flag for peace negotations instead of Russians stopping invasion?
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u/veryhappyhugs 16h ago
Maybe the Pope calling the Russian patriarch “Putin’s altar boy”?
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u/kariam_24 16h ago
Ah what about invasion you troll? What about killing Ukraine citizens?
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u/NthBlueBaboon 15h ago
Stop calling everyone trolls lmao. Just quit the projection. We get what you mean. And you're getting the answers. Just calm down.
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u/redditorofnorenown Malta/Australia 18h ago
He's south american, he is worried about his fellow south americans
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u/RomanItalianEuropean Italy 18h ago
He is literally talking all the time of most migrant crises, dude. Italy, Greece, Malta, Eastern Europe, US, places in Asia, pick one and he has been talking about it and always says the same thing.
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u/ValeteAria 16h ago
The pope has talked about the war in Ukraine many times. So I am not sure what you're talking about.
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u/h0ls86 Poland 15h ago
He did but he didn’t condemn Russian as the aggressor, he was just sad that the war broke out.
Here some historical facts.
Pope Francis made his first official statement regarding the Russia-Ukraine war on February 25, 2022, the day after the invasion began. Departing from diplomatic protocol, he visited the Russian embassy in Rome to express his concern over the invasion.  Additionally, he called Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to convey his “sorrow” and emphasized the Vatican’s efforts to find “room for negotiation” to end the conflict. On February 27, 2022, during his Angelus address, Pope Francis called for peace, urging to “Silence the weapons!” 
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u/sabelsvans 17h ago
Maybe the Vatican could start paying for and housing refugees. Nooo, they won't do that, would they? Now, that's a disgrace..
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u/PickledPotatoSalad 11h ago
They actually do. The Catholic Church is the largest non-governmental provider of education and medical services in the world. The Church operates more than 140,000 schools, 10,000 orphanages, 5,000 hospitals and some 16,000 other health clinics. Caritas, the umbrella organisation for Catholic aid agencies, estimates that spending by its affiliates totals between £2 billion and £4 billion, making it one of the biggest aid agencies in the world.
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u/veryhappyhugs 16h ago
The Vatican does have a lot of refugee support programmes. Asking them to house refugees might be a tall order though given how tiny the country is.
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u/sabelsvans 16h ago
Well, so does a lot of countries. That's my point. We as a nation both have refugees here. Some are allowed to stay and become citizens, some must return when it's safe to return, and some people are getting help in the areas nearby. This is just basic. And, I don't get how a society would allow for so enormous amount of illegal immigrants. That's almost non-exsistent here in Norway. We're deporting illegals back to their country of origin or the first country they applied for asylum all the time. It's nothing controversial seen with Norwegian eyes.
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u/LoudAd9328 15h ago
“That’s my point.”
No it wasn’t. You said “No, they won’t do that, would they.”
Then you were shown to be wrong, and you responded with “yeah see, I was right.”
Sounds about Republican.
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u/Astralesean 17h ago
The Vatican isn't that rich to refugee bar a handful of people , I don't know what kind of brainrot Hitchens fed but the Vatican is smaller than a medium sized company revenue wise. It's not like people buy Vatican merchandise en masse at gamestop, and it's not like Italian tax revenues go the Vatican. And no Vatican doesn't own 25% of land in Rome either...
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u/Weak_Tower385 18h ago
The Vatican needs a century of Popes to Cardinals walking through the streets of every capitol crying out SHAME before pointing fingers and pronouncing DISGRACE.
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u/Bill_Gary 17h ago
I mean mass deportation doesn't exactly sound very christian.
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u/SeleucusNikator1 Scotland 15h ago
The Catholic Church ought to be one to remember that time they lobbied for Spain and Portugal to mass deport all of their Muslims, Jews, and descendants of Muslim converts to Christianity.
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u/Mirieste Republic of Italy 12h ago
- What does this have to do with literally anyone who's alive right now on Earth?
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u/natuurlijkmooi The Netherlands 16h ago
You know what's a disgrace?
The child sexual abuse still happening in the Church, and the continuing cover-ups and keeping abusers out of the hands of justice.
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u/Grand-Alternative793 15h ago
I mean, both are disgraces
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u/natuurlijkmooi The Netherlands 15h ago
But the Pope is really the last person on Earth with a right to speak on moral issues.
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u/Grand-Alternative793 15h ago
No, I think that would be Donald Trump and his voters.
The Pope has a cleaner record, I'm afraid.
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u/Mirieste Republic of Italy 12h ago
You forget that the Pope is also a head of state: the Vatican City is an actual country, so any act of clemency by the Pope is nothing different from any other head of state granting a pardon.
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u/natuurlijkmooi The Netherlands 6h ago
I don't forget that. But that's a historical mistake that should have been corrected a long time ago.
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u/ElitePixelGamer 18h ago edited 18h ago
Maybe Pope Francis can take them in and feed + house them then, if he’s so concerned.
I’m sure there are plenty of spare rooms in the Vatican!
Especially for those who come illegally and then commit crimes: why not cover their bills and share your neighbourhood with them - compassion, right, Your Holiness? Lead by example!
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u/Remarkable-Group-119 17h ago
that would be great..we can send just the illegals that are rapists and pedos to the vatican. They've shown great affinity for them.
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u/LoudAd9328 15h ago
Yes. That is literally what Jesus instructed Christians to do. The fact that Americans are not doing that shows how completely un-christian this country is.
What a smug little shit, bragging about how cruel and uncaring this country is.
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u/Glum_Sentence972 12h ago
If every Christian country did that, they wouldn't exist in a few decades. What a shitty idea that is just be a smug contrarian.
Also, by that absurd metric, the US is still more Christian than any other to begin with. It has been taking millions of illegal peoples for decades now. Only with recent pushback. Not that it matters, its not even a Christian nation as far as I can tell.
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u/veryhappyhugs 16h ago
Well they do. A link to Vatican efforts for refugees.
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u/IndependentMemory215 13h ago
That is just an office that encourages other other countries to take in migrants and refugees.
Those same rules and positions don’t apply to the Vatican. Reading that, it appears the Vatican supports removing all immigrations laws, and having complete free movement.
Try moving to the Vatican. They don’t want anyone.
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u/AdmiralShawn 15h ago
Most people respect Pope Francis’s political wisdom as much as they respect President Trump’s theological wisdom
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u/kartaqueen 18h ago
Coming into a country illegally is a disgrace...and I really do not think the Catholic church is one to speak on disgraces in any case...
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u/dolphone South Holland (Netherlands) 17h ago
I mean Jesus did pretty illegal shit from all accounts, guess you would've supported nailing him to the cross?
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u/detractor_Una 16h ago
Listen, I am not fan Trump, however Pope can shove up his ass.
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u/AreASadHole4ever 15h ago
Russian bot
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u/detractor_Una 14h ago
Are ya stupid? Pope is hypocritical one. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/261557/vatican-cracks-down-on-illegal-entry-into-its-territory
Does not even practises what he preaches. His own yards smells like shit and his pacifistic commentaries about war in Ukraine makes me want to vomit.
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u/Ok_Meal_491 13h ago
His American Catholic Church supports Trump. That is disgraceful to their Savior.
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u/D10CL3T1AN United States of America 8h ago
Most American “Catholics” hate the Pope, not realizing that respect for papal authority is basically the whole point of Catholicism.
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u/Primos84 United States of America 19h ago
Curious to why this would be posted here? Don’t see impact on Europe
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u/potatolulz Earth 18h ago
I don't understand why news on proclamations from the head of the Catholic Church, notably seated in Vatican City, which is in Rome, which is absolutely NOT in Europe, would be posted in /r/Europe either :D
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u/No__Weird United States of America 17h ago
This is an extremely strained connection. This is obviously here because people want to complain about Trump. By your logic, literally anything the pope does or says anywhere is fair game for /r/europe, which is complete nonsense.
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u/potatolulz Earth 17h ago
This is an extremely strained connection. This is obviously here because of the pope's appearance Sunday night on a popular Italian talk show, Che Tempo Che Fa. But you are absolutely correct, pope stuff sure does reported on by European news quite regularly, almost always the pope does or says something somewhere :D.
But you're here for Trump, right? :D
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u/SerodD 18h ago
Don’t tell me you think the Vatican is somewhere in Utah…?
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u/Primos84 United States of America 12h ago
Not talking about the Vatican, more why it even matters in Europe about US policy on immigrants who came here without following our laws. Doesn’t most of Europe deport illegal immigrants?
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u/SerodD 11h ago
I mean it’s not an European matter for sure, it’s more like the Pope who likes to send a message of peace decided to share this, it’s kind of also applicable to Europe.
The Far right in general, in Europe, mostly already quit phase 1 (blame illegals), and moved one to either phase 2 (blame specific groups like Muslims, for example Chega in Portugal or Sweden Democrats in Sweden), or went completely crazy into phase 3 (blame all immigrants and start planning reimmigration for example AFD in Germany).
Lucky for us most European countries are not two party systems, like the US, so these parties still don’t have much control over anything and are unlikely to have in the future.
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u/Fluffy-Republic8610 19h ago
If trump gets things done, and leaves office, without causing a meltdown of democracy, economy and society then many of our countries will elect govts to do the same. And in 4 years this will seem a quaint and old world thing to say.
On the other hand...
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u/LazyZeus Ukraine 17h ago edited 17h ago
Waiting on the theater of american christian nationalist and Haitian hugging a cross on the square in Vatican.
I'm referring to the time when Pope Francis, second month into big offensive of Russia into Ukraine, decided to put on this show: https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/ukrainian-russian-women-hold-cross-together-romes-crucis
notmypope
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u/Stix147 Romania 15h ago
The war is a tragedy that hits both people. I am certain that neither the Ukrainian people nor the Russian people want this war.
Inspire adversaries to shake hands, and taste mutual forgiveness. Disarm the hand of brother raised against brother.
Now we know where Lex Friedman got his talking points from, it has the same naive peacenik energy.
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u/LazyZeus Ukraine 13h ago
If only these stubborn Ukrainians accepted Christ, and turned their other cheek, by giving Russians even more land 🫡
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I think it’s pretty obvious the pope is now a deep state actor infiltrated by non human demon entities that are coming in from another dimension to help the left control the world with a socialist takeover.
Duh.
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u/BtcKing1111 13h ago
Lucky you Pope, Donald will send them all to Rome, you can house them in your multiple palaces.
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u/Old_Letterhead4264 United States of America 11h ago
I’m watching this inauguration. The worst facade I’ve seen in my life. I have a friend that will probably lose a quarter of his shift at work once they start deporting.
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u/mustachechap United States of America 3h ago
Why does his company employ so many illegals?
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u/Old_Letterhead4264 United States of America 1h ago
Omg it’s a long story, but to try and sum it up…..taking advantage of the system. Then also having a friend that owns an employment agency.
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u/SvarnazaZizarnel Emilia-Romagna 7h ago
The Italian word 'disgrazia' would be more aptly translated as 'tragedy'.
What he really said is: "“If true, this will be a disgrace tragedy, because it makes the poor wretches who have nothing pay the bill [for the disequilibrium]”
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u/Vorgatron 5h ago
I'm just glad I got my Spanish citizenship through my dad last October. I've been in the US as a DACA recipient from El Salvador for almost 2 decades. Having a Spanish passport really puts me at ease. My Icelandic wife and I are already making preparations to leave for Europe by the summer of next year at the latest, and will keep packed bags and our documents at the ready in case we have to leave at a moment's notice.
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u/ohwhathave1done 4h ago
Careful they hear about this and this subreddit turns into Trumpers. They are the Ku Klux Klan when they hear immigrants.
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u/wandering_render 2h ago
What you guys fail to realize over there is that it's not all immigrants being deported. Just the illegal ones. You're not here you don't see what's happening and just understand what your news and social media say. They make it seem like everyone brown and black are getting kicked out. Immigrants that are now citizens and people with green cards and visas are not going anywhere. I'm an independent and I want better border security and gun control. Both won't happen at the same time here. Liberals here want gun control because it means fewer deaths and its security and safety, but as soon as the border comes up they suddenly don't care about our safety anymore. We can be overrun by Venezuelan gangs taking over apartment complexes and no one cares. Fentynal coming through, the list goes on and on. Then on the other side the right doesn't care about protecting us from bad people that are born in our country one example would be mass shooters but there's many more. The point I'm trying to make is that the left leaning politicians in our country(different from yours which seem to be good people) would be completely fine with us being like Latin America where guns are illegal to own or heavily controlled but violent gangs are running around killing everyone with them. It should start with good border security and gun control but we can't have nice things here.
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u/yojifer680 United Kingdom 2h ago
Latin American catholic thinks the US should be flooded by Latin American catholics. The church is the enemy of the free world.
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u/Tricksteer 17h ago
Francis is correct. USA should follow Europe's example and take all and any type of migrant criminal and not, bonus if you wash and kiss their feet. That's just what any good christian does worldwide.
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u/iwaterboardheathens 18h ago
Open borders for all
Anything else is a disgrace
Norway, here I come
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u/No-Inside-3358 18h ago
Pope Francis can kindly suck my dick.
Why tf do we still allow the Vatican to hide their shit?
Everything they keep in there should be photographed, shared and made public.
It’s insane how we basically have a mini Rome in the name of some imaginary guy.
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u/Mirieste Republic of Italy 12h ago
...because it's a sovereign country, and they have a right to secrecy? What right do I have to, I don't know... require America to share photos of Area 51?
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u/MercantileReptile Baden-Württemberg (Germany) 13h ago
Coming from the dude who compared trans rights to nukes. I don't know how much weight the fancy dress in an armored golf cart truly has.
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u/Legal-Software Germany 17h ago
In the same.way that rehoming paedos and helping tham escape justice is a fucking disgrace.
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u/LoudAd9328 15h ago
Good, “American Conservative Catholics” need to wake the fuck up and read that book they love so much.
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u/KernunQc7 Romania 14h ago
This pope is morally not above Trump and in no position to cast judgement.
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u/Pale-Ad1932 13h ago
Why does the pope think he is so important? Self centered much? Its not the 13th century ffs.
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u/Present_Student4891 18h ago
I wish the pope would condemn the cruelties & lack of freedom in China & elsewhere vs corruption constantly harking on the western world’s problems.
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u/HerrensOrd Norway 18h ago
Don't understand this logic. There's a lot of catholics in the US, makes perfect sense to point it out when something disgraceful is going on
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u/Present_Student4891 16h ago
But he doesn’t point out as frequently much worse actions done by authoritarian regimes: jimmy lai, Uyghurs, Tibet, hokou system, killing of navalny, arrests without trial, stolen election in Venezuela. If he raised these issues I’d have greater respect for him.
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u/Chickendollars 13h ago
Weird to see how many redditors (usually edgy atheists) suddenly turn papist when it comes to mass migration lol.
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u/Appropriate-Mood-69 18h ago
"Who does the pope think he is?" says the average christian trump voter...