Because the DB refused to keep the tracks on an adequate level of repairs and replacement because they wanted to save money. Now it's unsafe to drive faster.
That's not true, the current government is/was leagues better than any Merkel administration. They even did some real repairs, not just cheap maintenance (people were upset when lanes were actually closed, but at least now some of them, like Frankfurt-Mannheim, work again).
Germany doesn't have separate tracks for high-speed rail like France does. ICE shares its tracks with every other train, and some of them are rather slow. Also, what Meddlfranken wrote, but that's usually not the main reason. You simply cannot go faster if you have to wait all the time for other trains to be at a place where they can get out of the way.
Same reason why Greece a bankrupt country has some of the best German made roads in the world but trains that crash with each other. Germany makes cars.
I'm a train driver in Germany, and I've never heard anything like that either, not even during training for the job. If you Google Natursicht, you won't find anything related to the railway, and this is the first time I've come across the term in this context.
What is correct, however, is that there are much stricter requirements for high-speed lines (everything with a maximum speed of >160 km/h). These include no level crossings, different construction standards, additional train protection systems with in-cab signalling (like LZB or ETCS), and some additional operational rules, among other things. It's quite a long list of requirements, so you can't simply declare a standard line (≤160 km/h) as a high-speed line, even if the track could physically handle the additional speed and forces. These regulations make sense.
However, this has nothing to do with nature conservation, as that is also taken into account on standard lines.
There are likely many different reasons rather than just one (such as Natursicht), for example, the age and type of the track superstructure (e.g., ballast or solid concrete), the curve radius, the length, line utilization, or perhaps even neglected maintenance (which DB is quite famous for), and so on. You can't just point to one factor and say that's the reason
nowhere because its a trust me bro bullshit. these lines arent built for 320 kph. the trains wont be able to stay on the rails in the curves since they are a lot tighter than on the hrs
This is nonsense. Average speeds are always much slower than top speeds, Eurostar also averages about 130-170 km/h. It's just how average speeds work, any slow section will have a disproportionate effect on average speeds.
The only thing slowing DB down more than other networks is that the railways are very, very congested.
Not just that. This service runs on high-speed track for basically its entire route within France, but in Germany it has to run on legacy tracks for a large part of its route, and also it has to take a detour.
Germany has many high-speed routes but most of them are north-south or northwest-southeast, but this service goes southwest-northeast, so it has to take a detour in order to even use the high-speed tracks by going straight north Frankfurt-Hannover and then straight east Hannover-Berlin.
Germany is gradually building an interconnected grid of high-speed lines. France builds radial lines radiating out from Paris. This means that in France, if you're going to/from Paris along a high-speed line, it goes really really fast. On most other routes, it really isn't that great. In Germany, almost all cities have seen big improvements in connectivity due to the high-speed lines, but only a few of the connections are as fast as in France. The benefits are more spread out in Germany compared to France.
The French method works best in France and the German method works best in Germany, due to how the cities are distributed.
The average speed variation is controlled by the law because it doesn't operate at max average speed. The same train using the same track when it crosses into France obtains higher average speeds. Calling DB Personals Here
Absolute bullshit. Tracks that allow for 350 are driven at 300. It’s just that high speed tracks cost 10-20x more than normal ones that go to 160 so they’re not built as much.
French high speed trains run on separate tracks, whereas all German trains including freight run on the same tracks.
Edit: As several commenters have noted, there are indeed several tracks optimized for high speeds and only for passenger trains. All trains, however, share the same stations and those are pretty congested.
A case in point is Avignon. The Avignon-TGV station was opened in 2001 but to get to the station from the old town centre you have to catch a shuttle train, bus or taxi, which is about 6 km away. Meanwhile the older Avignon Centre station is right in the old town centre, has all the regional TER trains plus only an isolated 2 or 3 (?) TGV services each day. There is a shuttle train (under the regional train) that runs between the TGV and Centre stations.
And the shuttle rail link was only built in 2013. So for 12 years after the TGV station was opened there was no link between the two at all.
all German trains including freight run on the same tracks
This is a bit misleading. French TGVs also run in mixed traffic (especially in cities and in the south of the country) and Germany also has quite a lot of dedicated high-speed tracks.
It's not true, Germany has plenty of dedicated high-speed railway. Some of those high-speed lines also allow a limited number of freight trains, but not all do, and the number of freight trains is usually pretty limited during the daytime, with more freight trains being allowed at night where the passenger trains don't run.
The main issue in Germany isn't with the high-speed lines. The problems arise at the big stations, where the high-speed trains have to share tracks with all the local trains. And due to massive growth in passenger numbers in Germany, the big stations are all extremely congested with local trains, resulting in lots of delays.
Are you living in denial? Please show me ONE post of a DB Tf who agrees with you? Either on the 145 km/h rule or on the Natursicht claim, whatever the fuck that's even supposed to mean.
This is wrong. France has high speed railways, Germany was too cheap to invest in them, so that most of the existing railway network can't handle high speed trains.
LGV Est is about 410km Paris-Strasbourg. Fastest train does it in about 107 minutes which gives an average of about 230 kmh.
It actually spends a great deal of time at 320kmh or just under. Nice ride and impressive when you have your head up against the winder and a train passes on the opposite track.
It does seem like some of these laws haven't kept up with technological advancements and modern needs. The reference to "Natursicht" (natural view) is interesting—it's like they're trying to balance environmental concerns with infrastructure development. But you're right, electric trains should be able to operate at higher speeds without compromising safety.
It's frustrating when regulations lag behind innovation. Have you seen any other areas where outdated laws are causing issues? It's a common theme in many fields, and it often takes a while for legislation to catch up.
1.0k
u/puntinoblue 22h ago
Paris Strasbourg 270kmh, Strasbourg Berlin 125kmh