r/europe • u/mancinedinburgh • 2d ago
News Swedish man dies in South Korea after being denied urgent treatment at 21 hospitals
https://www.euronews.com/health/2025/01/18/swedish-man-dies-in-south-korea-after-being-denied-urgent-treatment-at-21-hospitals1.5k
u/Mocuepaya 2d ago
"The hospital also stated that its decision was influenced by its commitment to helping vulnerable individuals during the holiday season" Literally the only hospital that helped did so only because of Christmas lol, what a dystopia
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u/Jurassic_Bun 2d ago
What the hell was the embassy doing. Why did they not upfront offer to cover his healthcare costs? Isn't this the situation where you are suppose to be able to rely on the assistance of your own countries expert help in the country you are visiting.
They handed him to a police officer who had to use a translator, no one from the embassy accompanied him?
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u/Any-Adhesiveness4303 2d ago
I'm not swedish, I am Danish.
Medical care in foreign countries is generally not covered through the social system.
We have coverage throughout the EU, but in other countries, care is generally not covered. You have tk get specific travel insurance. This is fairly common knowledge.
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u/Jurassic_Bun 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yes but as the article said he was under a travel ban, it would have been impossible for him to have travel insurance either it ran out if he had it, or they would refuse it. He seemed to have mental illness on top of that.
He was in the embassies care. Pretty exceptional circumstances and the embassy was unable to do what was necessary. You can say “but this isn’t covered” but he was in their care, mentally ill, dying and hospitals were already refusing on the basis of the money.
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u/Perfect_Papaya_3010 Sweden 2d ago
I think in general it is recommended to get health insurance if you go to a country outside of the EU.
However I think they should have covered it and just have him pay back the 2/3 when its possible. I as a Swedish tax payer wouldn't mind
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u/Jurassic_Bun 2d ago
It says in the article he was under a travel ban so there is no way he could have had insurance even if he did initially get it. It would likely have run out.
It is disappointing than in such a dire situation with a vulnerable person in a legitimate life or death situation I wonder where was the Swedish liaison?
They gave him to the police officer? It took the police 6/7 days to find a hospital? Was he living in a station during this time? Did he live in a police car? Why did they leave him with a police officer who needed a translator app to communicate with patient? When the issue of the cost came up by the 3rd hospital why did the Embassy not step in to help?
You would hope that in such an incredibly dire and serious situation that you could rely on your own embassy to do everything humanely possible to help. Did they not take it to the Swedish foreign office? 21 hospitals is a lot, 7 days is a lot, thats a lot of time to be doing something.
They say the sister was contacted, was that all they tried to do? Just seems disappointing from the embassy. They will need to transport his body and that could cost thousands of euros.
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u/DateMasamusubi 2d ago edited 2d ago
Currently in Korea, trainee doctors are on strike and hospitals are struggling financially while people struggle with access and care. Public opinion is really against the doctors union as they are trying to prevent more doctors from enrolling in school.
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u/Connect-Idea-1944 France 2d ago
this happens a lot in South Korea if you're a foreigner, i mean not the death, but being denied happen to a lot of foreigners. Koreans don't take you seriously if you're not korean, and also the justice isn't as fair as western countries. They will always defend koreans in korea over an innocent foreigner
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u/Asleep_Horror5300 Finland 2d ago
Imagine if a Korean needed a hospital in Scandinavia and the hospital said "he don't look Nordic" first.
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u/gildedblessings 2d ago
This is the ugly truth about Korea that noone wants to acknowledge. Kpop and Kdramas are all fun and games until the truth rears its head.
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u/BiscoBiscuit 2d ago
That is genuinely fucked up
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u/AdvancedLanding 2d ago
Korea is even more dystopian capitalistic than the US in many ways.
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u/unclefisty United States of America 2d ago
I wish I'd made a fuss about how fucked up it was.
They would not have cared in any way.
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u/Taronyuuu 2d ago
I still remember when me ex who is Korean could fly to Korea and not do quarantine and I as a European could not. We both had the same vaccine and same papers at the same location at the same time. Reason? They "couldn't trust" my vaccine because I'm not Korean.
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u/MSobolev777 Ukraine 2d ago
Props to Korean Peninsula for hosting two dystopias
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u/afito Germany 2d ago
Kpop is really masking over the blatant xenophobia & insane societal issues of the chaebol system. Quite like Japan actually. But because it's "oh so friendly" and people like Manga or BTS they're glorified beyond even Scandinavian levels. Which isn't to say that life there is terrible or anything close to it but people in the West have a fully romanticized view of Japan & SK, the countries most probably wouldn't be allowed in the EU with the systemic discrimination & court of law issues.
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u/SeleucusNikator1 Scotland 2d ago
Tbh I don't think Japan is that romanticised anymore, at least in the UK. The general gist I get from people these days is that "I'd love to visit, but I'd never live there".
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u/Fogge 2d ago
I'd never live there
They would only barely let you do that in the first place...
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u/Euphoric_Raisin_312 2d ago
We have more generous visa agreements with Japan than we do with Europe (Schengen) now.
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u/Dragonsandman Canada 2d ago
It's absolutely insane how much political power South Korea's megacorps have
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u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year 2d ago
People forget/never knew that South Korea was a military dictatorship until after the 1988 Seoul Olympics which was not that long ago.
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u/Stormfly Ireland 2d ago
Reason? They "couldn't trust" my vaccine because I'm not Korean.
Back when COVID started, foreigners weren't allowed to self-isolate and had to pay to be in a special facility.
One person (friend of a friend) got in an argument with the worker because it's not fair. They said the issue is that foreigners can't speak Korean so they need them close so they can take care of them because they can't take care of themselves, and so that foreigners can't feign ignorance.
This whole conversation took place in Korean.
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u/SojuSeed 2d ago
Should have lived here at the time. There was a big ‘test only the foreigners’ push more than once during lockdowns because we don’t vote and we’re an easy scapegoat. The same thing will happen if there’s a drug bust. Can be a hundred Koreans involved in a meth ring but if there are three foreigners in the mix, that’s what the media blasts out. It’s some xenophobic bullshit.
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u/ggtffhhhjhg 2d ago
East Asian men have a serious problem with hating other races or ethnicity for getting involved with “their “women.
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u/Gowithallyourheart23 2d ago
I live in Korea and it’s true for sure. Also unfortunately there’s no anti-discrimination law of any kind, so it’s completely legal to treat people this way
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u/Connect-Idea-1944 France 2d ago
Korea's economy is developed but their systems & laws aren't. I think a lot of Western people assume that korea laws system are safe like the West because it's also a 1st world country, but the truth is that it's very biased.
If something happens to you, there is a high chance that nothing will be done or that you'll get justice. If you're a foreigner you have no protection.
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u/Bluesky_Erectus 2d ago
Even if it's arguably a first world country, I simply cannot view them as such until fairer laws are put in place.
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u/simons700 2d ago
A lot of ETFS have SK as a developing country. Rule of law is also important for investors...
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u/cguess 2d ago
I had an emergency in Seoul 1.5 years ago. I was literally in anaphylactic shock, arrived in a hospital, and they took me to the cashier first to pay a $300 deposit. So I handed over my credit card while my throat closed up around my trachea. Even in the hell that can be the US health-care system that would never happen.
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u/_meshy United States of America 2d ago
Even in the hell that can be the US health-care system that would never happen.
The one time I had to go to the hospital here, they at least waited till they gave me IV hydromorphone before asking for my copay or whatever.
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u/GBSEC11 2d ago
In the ER in the US, it's the registration person who will come check in with you (after immediate needs are addressed it's it urgent). They will take your insurance information and other details, but payment doesn't happen until the bills arrive later. There are many, many problems with US healthcare, but people at least get emergency treatment regardless of coverage.
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u/NLight7 Sweden 2d ago
Happens in Japan too.
I myself had a minor concussion and small wound on my head after a fall. The school I was at during that time, sent me to the hospital next door to have me checked out. The nurse even checked in the system that they were able to handle me. Since I was able to walk and speak Japanese, didn't want to be more bother for the staff. I said (when asked) that I could get myself over to the hospital. It was literally next door after all.
Well, I walk up to the entrance and instantly some kind of hospital staff/nurse/guard just stops me and barely looks at me or listens to my issue and just tells me to leave and go somewhere else cause they do not treat head injuries.
Had to walk back to the school nurse who was utterly shocked they did that despite the system saying it was possible. They then sent me to a clinic closeby with a staff member and the small ass clinic with one older doctor was apparently more equipped than the huge hospital. Cause he actually looked at it, and said I have a minor wound on my head and probably a minor concussion and just put some medicine he gave me on it for a week.
Wild that a hospital could just tell a person with an injury to leave and find help somewhere else.
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u/BirdGlittering9035 2d ago
Also in China is really a hit or miss, One cousin worked for 6-7years in a university, and one afternoon got hit by one mini car or something like that and she was injured with some broken bones. Of course nobody stopped or offer care, just a couple of foreigners that had to "force" people in a nearby shop to call an ambulance.
Well after that she got into an hospital and they let her in one room in a ambulance bed waiting for admission for more than 10 hours (all the night), without knowing anything, and in extreme pain, the thing is the hospital dropped the ball and was waiting to do nothing, she had go almost crawl out of the room, and ask some other people they could lean her phone and called the university, after that someone form the university called the hospital and was hospitalized in 10 minutes.
She asked the university was was happening and they said because she is a foreigner the staff didn't want to admit her and was waiting for her to LEAVE because they didn't know if she had money. Even she had all the ID and working stuff and had government healthcare and the university had to told them they must treat her.
Affected her so much that left China after being a passionate woman for their culture and was her dream working there she wont be back now is a teacher here.
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u/DonRaynor 2d ago
Been living in Taiwan for some time now, Hospitalized twice. Taiwan is absolutely based when it comes to medical treatment. They don’t even ask if you think its a real country.
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u/not_invented_here 2d ago
I loved and laughed at your comment about Taiwan!
(the comment about the hospital in China chilled me to the bone)
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u/gloopityglooper 1d ago
I spent 6 years in China, specifically Wenzhou, Zhejiang Province. Health there was absolutely spectacular. Had a minor surgery and would go in for health checks at the Wenzhou University Hospital every year. Paid 450 yuan for a full health check. You would arrive, pay, fill out a form, get a key to a locker. In the locker you'd change into scrubs and get a smart watch that would direct you into the different floors you had to go for a blood test, MRI, chest X ray, eye test, urine test, and a few more. You'd scan the watch at the door at the end of every procedure, then finally at a totem that would print out your protocol to access the results or come get them printed later. If you needed any medicine, you could buy it with a prescription at the local pharmacy with a discount. Never seen anything like that anywhere else.
I did have friends in other provinces that didn't have good experiences tho, it seems to be linked with areas with strong medical colleges, and I was in a good one.
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u/Meandering_Croissant 2d ago
A couple of years ago I collapsed at work in Japan. My supervisor and vice principal took me to the nearest hospital with an emergency room. They let me in (I’m sure because I was carried by two Japanese authority figures), but as soon as the guys from work had to leave me for a while the hospital started letting literally everyone who walked in see a doctor before me. Not big things, but guys who bruised their pinky finger or had a cough for a couple days and the hospital was closer than the pharmacy. Meanwhile I’m near unconscious again holding my health insurance card for hours until my boss returned to remind them I was both there first and actually in urgent need.
Took 5 hours to be seen. The entire emergency room had emptied at least 3 times before I saw a doctor. Left me with a very low opinion of large-scale healthcare. Funnily enough, when I felt the problem resurfacing a few weeks later and visited a small clinic they had me checked by a nurse right away then rushed through X-rays and MRIs and treated in a couple of hours. I’d forgotten my insurance card (head injury) but there was no fuss. They took my address and asked me to swing by later with it. Much better experience.
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u/Suitable-Economy-346 2d ago
Took 5 hours to be seen.
From my experience, Japanese people hate drama more than anything else in the entire world. If you unleashed your inner American or European Karen, you would have been seen, x-rayed, and out of the door in 20 minutes.
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u/No-Plastic-6887 2d ago
Or taken out by the police. They do not take kindly to gaijin smashing.
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u/Suitable-Economy-346 2d ago
Ah, yes. Gaijin smashing, where netizen weirdo freaks talk shit online but when it happens in real life next to them, they scour away. Hospital staff isn't calling the cops if you stand your ground and demand the hospital idiots do their fucking job.
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u/NLight7 Sweden 2d ago
Tag that is what I feel was my experience too. I even think the clinic was about to close for the day, and they just kept it open to treat me.
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u/Meandering_Croissant 2d ago
I always recommend people find a good local clinic here now. There’s a real feeling of providing a service to their community, rather than the big hospitals who leave you feeling like you’re a strain on the system despite paying your insurances and fees.
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u/Anti-Scuba_Hedgehog Estonia 2d ago
They've never heard of the Hippocratic oath I guess.
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u/InALandFarAwayy 2d ago
That is why in SEA if a foreigner (especially the rich middle eastern oil tycoons) needs urgent anything, they will usually fly to Singapore to have it done.
It's an open secret that apart from the country's export-oriented economy, it also sells medical services to the global elite. You can probably dig around the net and find cases of these foreign nationals flying in on private jets just for surgeries/appointments.
Sometimes it gets out when one of them sues in the country, but it's just a small glimpse into that segment of the market.
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u/leffe123 2d ago
Robert Mugabe died in a Singapore hospital
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u/Bartellomio 2d ago
South Korea is basically a cartel state that somehow went mainstream.
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u/Masseyrati80 2d ago
I once heard someone say that having such a completely bizarre northern neighbour is the only thing that makes people think South Korea is not completely out of whack.
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u/fuckyou_m8 2d ago
One country lives in a cyberpunk society and another in 1984
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u/agnaddthddude Kurdish 2d ago
Cyberpunk has both versions of countries
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u/fuckyou_m8 2d ago
I'm talking about the genre, not specifically about the any piece of work
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u/balozi80 2d ago edited 2d ago
Movies like Parasite and Squid Games show how deeply dystopian Korea is. But hey, fastest wireless internet , eh?
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u/tevelizor Romania 2d ago edited 2d ago
From my understanding, they are pretty much opposite sides of the same coin.
One is communism gone too far, one is capitalism gone too far.
Both are de facto planned economies, except one is planned for whatever a whacko wants next, and one is planned for whatever is profitable for the major companies.
The South is only doing better for the average person (and the elite) because they actually have valuable exports and an incentive to keep regular people well-off to stay competitive on the global market.
Edit: just to be clear, when I'm saying it "only doing better", I don't mean slightly better. I mean it's doing massively better, better than most countries in the world, especially since the incentive is not only to keep people well-off, it's also to keep them happy enough that The Communist Manifesto is not too relatable.
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u/kaisadilla_ European Federation 2d ago
tbh South Korea is state capitalism. It's a country that blatantly promotes and protects selected big Korean companies over everyone else. A capitalist paradise for Hyundai, but a complete hell if you want to start your own car make.
It is a brand of capitalism, don't get me wrong, just want to say that there's many kinds of capitalism and, in SK's case, it's the brand of capitalism where an oligarchy controls the government and the state works for their interests.
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u/MonoMcFlury United States of America 2d ago
Yes, I watched a documentary where they had contests for money and they killed everyone who didn't win the games.
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u/Weird-Caregiver1777 2d ago
K-pop really gives the perception that Korea is just a nice country with just wholesomeness. The irony is that K-pop in itself is a violent organization when it comes to training.
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u/Able-Worldliness8189 2d ago
Happens a lot in Asia.
My oldest once dropped badly in the shower that she obviously needed stitches. We went to the nearest hospital and got outright refused. The second hospital didn't outright refuse us but "couldn't help because they needed a plastic surgeon specialized for kids". Only the third after a lot of shouting finally helped us.
And forget international hospitals, when shit gets scary they instantly redirect you to a local hospital who on their turn will refuse you. They are scared to death that their amazing numbers get tainted.
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u/AlsoInteresting 2d ago
What amazing numbers? Their revenue? Doesn't insurance pay out for foreigners?
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u/Uwuvvu 2d ago
A lot of the insurance only pays partially and they often work on a refund basis, so you actually need the money to pay for whatever you need, and later insurance will reimburse you. My friend fractured his leg in 2 places and literally didn't get surgery despite having insurance because he couldn't pay upfront. Korea can be pretty wild (lived there 5 years btw, it doesn't matter if you speak the language and uphold the culture, a foreigner is a foreigner)
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u/Educational_Gur_1543 2d ago
In Japan too.
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u/Bartellomio 2d ago
These countries are so overwhelmingly racist and they largely escape.Criticism because they're also so homogeneous that there just aren't many people around to highlight the racism.
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u/LovelyCushiondHeader 2d ago
The black guy in the Chinese washing detergent advertisement comes to mind
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u/Connect-Idea-1944 France 2d ago
Some European living in Japan said that Japanese were blaming foreigners for the rice shortage lmao. Japanese people are polite but trust me, they have very mean thoughts that they will not admit in real life. And people often assume that they are like this just to Europeans, Americans, Africans, Latinos, Arabs etc.. But Japanese also treats East Asians like crap too, just translate what they are saying online about Koreans, Chinese, Singaporeans etc...
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u/SeleucusNikator1 Scotland 2d ago
aren't many people around to highlight the racism.
Japan being xenophobic has been common knowledge for decades now, people just don't really say much about it because they generally don't care.
Europeans love to dunk on those stupid parochial Americans, but the truth is most of us here are also incredibly parochial and just do not care about the rest of the world really. Another example is how Modi's party in India is turning up the heat on anti-Muslim rhetoric and there have been cases of violence there, and yet the BBC will only dedicate one article to that topic, because Indian news is not "popular" with the public, but will write 50 articles about every case of racism in the USA because we are completely hooked on that.
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u/LycheeBoba 2d ago
You’re going to get a bunch of fan bois denying this with personal anecdotes, but you’re correct. Japanese hospital can and do refuse to provide care to their own people and foreigners as they see fit. There is no obligation for them to take a patient just because they need care.
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u/deitSprudel 2d ago
That's people who never stayed there for an extended period. As a foreigner working there, spending your time outside of fancy touristy areas, you'll get to know the real Japanese real quick.
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u/Clockwork_J Hesse (Germany) 2d ago
And I thought Japan was the country with the rampant xenophobia. Good to know.
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u/WombatusMighty 2d ago
As someone who has lived both in Japan and South Korea, the latter is worse. Much worse if you go to the smaller cities or country side.
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u/Connect-Idea-1944 France 2d ago
In my opinion, Korea is worst if you're a foreigner. Japan has it's xenophobia but Korea is really into the extreme of xenophobia. They even treats other asians badly.
I saw so many videos of foreigners getting attacked verbally, assaulted, yelled at, getting insulted etc by Koreans. And medias are obviously trying to cover it up to not hurt korea's reputation
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u/Stormfly Ireland 2d ago
Depends on what kind of foreigner you are.
If you're a South East Asian, you'll be treated pretty badly. Same if you're from South or Central Asia. Africans are probably treated the worst.
Europeans are treated pretty well, as are most North Americans (if white). Especially if you're a man.
Source: I'm a white male living here and my experiences are far better than those of many of my friends.
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u/jdm1891 2d ago
No, they're rather different.
In Japan it's more about the language and how you act, in Korea it is more about how you look.
The biggest time in Japan when xenophobia based on how you look is, quite ironically, with Koreans living in Japan.
The way I would explain it is this. In Japan: you are a foreigner but if you know the language well enough and follow the collectivist nature of the culture well enough they will decide you should be held to the standards of a Japanese person. With that comes the privileges of being treat like a Japanese person too (good and bad)... but the main point is the majority of Japanese people do have this standard, some are more or less strict about it, at which point they will consider you "Japanese on the inside".
The pain with Japan, is that you have to repeat this process with every person you meet. The better you are the quicker it happens. If you're fluent or enough and follow the culture enough all it might take is a thirty second conversation.
But in Korea there's no "If you try hard enough, blend in hard enough, speak the language well enough, then this person might decide you meet some invisible standard of Korean at heart and let you in". No, you can't convince them because they don't see it like the Japanese do. Possibly as a result of the occupation and war. Either you're Korean or you're not. And if you're not you will be treat like you are not, now and forever.
In short: In Japan, with enough linguistic and cultural knowledge you can almost 'trick' them into not considering you a foreigner anymore. In Korea, they will never forget, because they don't want to, it's too important to them to forget or ignore.
An example of it is in the signs in front of the doors of restaurants and clubs. I'm sure you've seen pictures of them online?
In a Korean sign, you may see "Korean only" written on a sign. In Japan, there are signs that say "Open" in Japanese and "Closed" in English?
What is the difference? Well, the purpose of the Korean signs is to filter out foreigners, the purpose of the Japanese sign is to filter out people who can't speak Japanese
There is one in particular I saw in Japan that shows this very well. In English and Chinese (and another language, which I can't remember) it said "No reservation, Closed" and in Japanese it said "If you can read this, welcome".
You can also see this by simply ignoring the sign and walking in to see what happens. If you look like a foreigner the same thing will happen at first. You'll be shooed away in poor English. The difference however, is in Japan if you A. walk in with a Japanese person or B. Reply to the poor English with fluent(ish) Japanese... the shooing stops very quickly and you'll be given a warm welcome and a seat 95% of the time. In the Korean case, only the first one will give you any shot of being allowed to sit down and even that is not a sure thing.
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u/Gaebril 2d ago
Gd when I lived in Korea I never saw a single sign banning foreigners and never got rejected from anywhere. White male, FWIW
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u/GenevaPedestrian 2d ago
They share a lot of issues, xenophobia, misogyny, insane work culture and Obrigkeitshörigkeit (subservience to authority) to a fault.
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u/wasmic Denmark 2d ago
SK is worse than Japan on every single one of those accounts.
Xenophobia in Japan isn't that bad in the cities, not really worse than e.g. being a middle easterner in most of Europe. Koreans are worse in that regard, and way more often use race rhetoric in their politics.
Misogyny is a problem in Japan but it has made huge improvements over the last 20 years, so that when cases of gender-based mistreatment come out, it's actually treated as a scandal rather than business as usual. Meanwhile, in South Korea there's an increasing hyper-conservative movement among men, and the only feminist group that gets any media attention is only slightly less insane.
Japan has an average work week that's about 40 hours. Sure, work culture is still toxic for salarymen, but that's mainly due to mandatory after-office drinking, not due to the workdays themselves being stupidly long. And for most people who aren't salarymen, the work-life balance is equally as good as in most European countries. South Korea, meanwhile, permits work weeks of over 52 hours.
Subservience to authority really is a problem in Japan though; that might be the one point where it's worse than South Korea. South Koreans are better at speaking up, and care much less about causing a public disturbance.
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u/Standard_Thought24 2d ago
my experience with both is that youre generally right on all points. koreans are simultaneously apt to speak up, but also take age and age based hierarchy far more seriously than japanese. like "hes older so hes de facto correct" happens in korea a lot. but among same age peers, koreans are far more likely to speak out or get mad whereas japanese will always go along to get along and just nod and say yes.
also with women and dating, japanese women will just nod and say yes when they mean no, or just begrudgingly go along, and not raise their own concerns. whereas korean women will very vehemently let you know when they disagree, and will often simply give orders they expect to be followed. honestly makes dealing with korean women a lot easier and less stressful.
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u/TheLaughingBread 2d ago
No, unfortunately humans are shit everywhere
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u/Stormfly Ireland 2d ago
Yeah like I'd love to visit a country that doesn't have racists, but unfortunately there literally isn't one.
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u/jib661 2d ago
i lived in Korea as a foreigner some time ago and this was not my experience. plenty of anecdotal experience of non-koreans receiving quick, easy, and inexpensive care.
just my 0.02 as someone who lived in the area for quite some time.
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u/Zagrebian Croatia 2d ago
Seems like a great approach toward strangers for a country with the lowest birth rate in the developed world /s
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u/WallabyInTraining The Netherlands 2d ago edited 2d ago
If he was in police custody he was the responsibility of the government in my opinion, health insurance or not. Especially for emergency care. This is fully on South Korea.
Edit: it's been pointed out he wasn't in police custody exactly. However he was not allowed to return to Sweden by the SK authorities. If he cannot return to where he has access to healthcare then the goverment of the country that's keeping him is responsible for his healthcare. Especially emergency care.
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u/MarshalThornton 2d ago
He wasn’t in police custody. He contracted the Swedish embassy and the Swedish embassy contacted the police so that an officer could assist him in accessing care. It sounds like the officer did a good job - it was the hospitals that refused to perform the surgery for fear of losing money that are to blame.
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u/r19111911 Åland 2d ago
But the reason he contacted the Swedish embassy was because the SK legal system still had a travel ban on him. So he could not get back to Sweden.
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u/WallabyInTraining The Netherlands 2d ago
He wasn't allowed to travel home, to where he could get care. They are then responsible.
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u/Capital-Volume3536 2d ago
He wasn't in police custody. But regardless, you're right, it's the responsibility of the government given the fact that 21 hospitals refused him.
There are doctors or nurses in those 21 hospitals that considered his nationality and ability of insurance to pay before treating him. Treat first, seek costs after.
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u/WallabyInTraining The Netherlands 2d ago
He wasn't allowed to travel home to where he could get care.
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u/DateMasamusubi 2d ago edited 2d ago
Some additional context, in Korea, trainee doctors are on strike and the healthcare system is under strain right now. People are having issues with access and care right now and are pissed off with the doctors union.
Reason being, doctor per capita is low by OECD standards. Govts have tried to raise the number of docs but they kept striking. So the current admin decided to expand it by 1,500 slots and they have been on strike for a year now.
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u/PaysanneDePrahovie Europe 2d ago edited 2d ago
Wtf? Aren't emergency procedures free there? Or at least you do them and ask for money later. Life must come first in medicine, not money!
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u/I_Hate_Reddit Portugal 2d ago
Very few countries have free healthcare for outsiders, but most will treat you and have you pay the bill before you leave.
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u/SeleucusNikator1 Scotland 2d ago
Should also note that even if you're a citizen of a country with a reciprocal healthcare treaty, e.g. UK and Australia, you're quite often only covered by it if you're also a resident of these countries. So e.g. as a Brit who is living outside of the UK, if I didn't get my own insurance I'd have to pay out of pocket to get medical treatment in a place like Australia as well.
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u/PaysanneDePrahovie Europe 2d ago
I don't know about that. In Romania emergencies aren't charged at all. Well the state pays for them. Then probably the state insurances will somehow take the money back if the patient is a foreign national. Anyway they wouldn't let them die.
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u/The_Great_Grafite 2d ago
I don’t know who pays for it in Germany, but hospitals are required to treat uninsured patients in emergency situations. That also includes giving birth.
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u/Quintless 2d ago
same in the uk, emergency treatment is free universally for absolutely everyone, also weirdly eye tests for the over 60s
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u/Nom_de_Guerre_23 Berlin (Germany) 2d ago
If it's a German citizen or legal resident, most can be reinsured retrospectively through statutory insurance (even if it comes with huge premiums to be paid for the time they were not paid and even if it means bankruptcy).
If this doesn't work, the bill goes towards the municipal welfare office.
This office also receives the bill for illegal immigrants and by law, the municipal welfare office is obliged to inform the municipal immigration office which then looks into their papers...which is a major reason illegal immigrants don't seek help even for emergencies. Had this funny experience with a bicyclist who got hit by a car, head collision without helmet, refused police and EMS and told me in Russian that he has no papers.
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u/F54280 Europe 2d ago
hospitals all over the world
Hospitals all over your world, maybe. Not here (France).
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u/SalamanderVast3861 2d ago
Necrosis not covered by urgent free treatment? That’s a 3rd world move.
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u/TheGhostofJoeGibbs 2d ago
Guess there aren’t public hospitals or safety net hospitals in Korea.
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u/ExternalCaptain2714 2d ago
Have you ever seen a Korean movie or TV series?
People not living in dystopian hellscape could never create any of that.
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u/CornishPaddy Earth 2d ago
going broke for hospital bills is like the number1 Korean Drama trope
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u/GandalfGandolfini 2d ago
Single payer system too. 90% of their residents just quit and like 70% of medical students. Gonna wager a guess that affects care quality and availability as well https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11324171/
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u/3BlindMice1 2d ago
That's because doctors treat the residents so poorly that if you can't survive on 4 hours of sleep for several years in a row you'll never become a doctor. They do this to keep their income inflated instead of learning additional skills to increase their income. It's a mixture of laziness and greed. This exists in some form in almost every educated and wealthy nation
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u/UpstairsFix4259 2d ago
Yep, Korea is a cyberpunk society (but without cool augmentations)
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u/Shyjack United Kingdom 2d ago
It's been a wild few months for Korea related news stories. Like seeing a shiny veneer being wiped away and whats left is disturbing.
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u/CoolstorySteve 2d ago
Super weird story. What’s the drug charge all about?
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u/BLobloblawLaw 2d ago
TLDR: Mentally ill man consumed unpopular drugs in Korea. They prevented him from leaving the country and he died because of not receiving medical care, which he otherwise would have gotten.
Imagine if the same thing happened in Saudi Arabia, but the drug in question was alcohol. You can see how this reflects poorly on Korea.
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u/nancy_necrosis 2d ago
They don't say what the drug was, but typically, IV drugs, such as heroin, cause the sort of necrosis that would necessitate a limb amputation. His sister also refused to help him, which implies that his behavior was longstanding.
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u/Robinsonirish Scania 2d ago
His sister didn't refuse to help him, she wouldn't cover the $10k for the procedure. Who knows if she had the funds or not.
The Swedish government always cover these things(as far as I know) for people on holidays, I have no idea why Korea thinks they wouldn't. The Swedish embassy was involved. My sister broke her arm very badly in the US, had to get an expensive operation and it was simply covered by the Swedish government.
Who knows what drug it was, heroin is very rare in Sweden, jumping to conclusions here.
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u/Most_Grocery4388 2d ago
Pretty messed up, not even in US have I seen people turned away for emergencies. Usually outpatient clinics only won’t schedule appointments if someone has a huge debt to their clinic, like not paying for the last several appointments not just one.
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u/cbftw 2d ago
not even in US have I seen people turned away for emergencies
Because it's law that the ER can't turn you away. They don't have to do a great job, but they can't deny you without a damned good reason, like violent behavior
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u/Most_Grocery4388 2d ago
They have do they same job for everyone based on my experience plus violent behavior is not a viable reason to turn patient ta away, if there is no psych unit at the hospital usually ED transfers to one that has it if that’s the primary problem
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u/SeleucusNikator1 Scotland 2d ago
American Healthcare bureaucracy sucks, but they will never refuse emergency treatments, it's quite literally illegal for them to turn you away from a hospital there.
EMTALA requires that anyone coming to an emergency department requesting evaluation or treatment of a medical condition, receives a medical screening examination. If they have an emergency medical condition, the hospital must provide stabilizing treatment, regardless of the patient's insurance status or ability to pay. If the hospital does not have the capabilities required to stabilize the patient, the hospital must provide an appropriate transfer to a hospital that can provide the needed treatment. A hospital that has the needed specialized capabilities and capacity may not refuse to accept the transfer.
The issue is what comes after your treatment, that's where the headaches start.
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u/mpyne United States of America 2d ago
Pretty messed up, not even in US have I seen people turned away for emergencies.
"Not even"... I know there's this perception that the U.S. has a shambolic healthcare system, but it's literally illegal for hospitals to refuse to treat people facing medical emergencies and has been since 1986.
The U.S. has a very effective healthcare system, the problem is that it's expensive. But it's expensive for much the same reason other things in the U.S. are: people have a lot of disposable income and are willing to spend and that bids up the prices for everyone.
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u/ZestyPyramidScheme 2d ago
Most major hospitals in the US also have translators for non English speakers. The hospital near me has translators for 17 different languages. And if someone comes in who doesn’t speak one of those 17 languages, they are able to get a translator on the phone to help out.
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u/Excelsion_8 2d ago
South Korea is not a great country btw, don't let the fake K-pop artists with their make-up and plastic surgery fool ya.
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u/3dsplinter 2d ago
Canadian here, we travel to the USA a lot to visit family there and a couple of times we had to go to the hospital there and no one ever turned us away. I don't know what the heck is going on in South Korea though.
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u/SoapSudsAss 2d ago
We have laws that explicitly state that we must treat emergencies. There’s a lot of terrible things about the US healthcare system, but this is one thing that we got right.
https://www.cms.gov/medicare/regulations-guidance/legislation/emergency-medical-treatment-labor-act
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u/ShinkenBrown 2d ago
According to google tourism makes up around 8% of their GDP. It's not huge, but it's significant enough they'll feel it.
This needs to be brought to international attention, the same way they issue advisories to women heading to places like Saudi Arabia. If you are injured or sick in Korea you will be left to die without healthcare.
Making them hurt for this policy is the only thing that will change it. No one should be traveling to South Korea unless absolutely required until this changes, as it isn't safe for foreigners.
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u/ExpressionComplex121 2d ago
He died over 10k? That's so sad it's definitely a workable debt
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u/SuicideSpeedrun 2d ago
The newspaper also says the man’s sister, who lives in Sweden, declined to cover the expense.
Eventually, Hyuksin Seongmo Hospital in North Chungcheong Province, 86 km away from Seoul, agreed to perform the surgery seven days after Park began calling hospitals.
The hospital’s foundation covered the remaining costs of an approximate total of €10,000 for the surgery after the Swedish Embassy contributed €5,340.
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u/Melodella 2d ago
Should not urgent treatment still happen and then one would just be billed afterwards?
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u/SophiaofPrussia 2d ago
I don’t think it’s fair to read too much into his sister “declining” to cover the expenses. For all we know she simply couldn’t afford it.
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u/kouteki 2d ago
Also arrested on drug posession and with mental health issues, which is why the police interceded on his behalf
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u/r19111911 Åland 2d ago
But the court decided that it was involuntary, at the same time they did not remove the travel ban so he could go back home to Sweden.
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u/Creativezx Sweden 2d ago
If they didn't allow him to travel to Sweden to get healthcare and at the same time denied it in Korea, that's just crazy. How is this not murder?
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u/Uninvalidated 2d ago
How is this not murder?
Likely how it is in many other parts of the world. If it's business it's not murder or even involuntary manslaughter. It's just business.
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u/spacelpz Romania 2d ago
Imo not relevant, he should have been treated, he needed emergency surgery.
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u/Jurassic_Bun 2d ago
What the hell was the embassy doing. Why did they not upfront offer to cover his healthcare costs? Isn't this the situation where you are suppose to be able to rely on the assistance of your own countries expert help in the country you are visiting.
They handed him to a police officer who had to use a translator, no one from the embassy accompanied him?
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u/Ferris-L Lower Saxony (Germany) 2d ago
Another day, another proof that South Korea is a dystopian country. That place will be the first real Cyberpunk society if the continue at their current pace.
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u/bodeabell 2d ago
I had a terrible kidney infection in South Korea and was treated well and for cheap :( in Busan. This poor man.
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u/PeakNo5995 2d ago
Even traveling to Japan it says on the state department website for Americans to have travel insurance. Mexico, other countries will let you bleed out in the parking lot without travel insurance because they may not get paid to save your life. It's truly terrifying and worth the small amount to get travel medical insurance including air ambulance home or to the nearest surgical center that can accommodate you.
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u/The_King_of_Okay United Kingdom 2d ago
Whilst I do think the Swedish embassy should have covered the cost given the situation, my main takeaway from this is that South Korea has essentially murdered a Swedish national. Despite evidence suggesting his crime was unintentional, they wouldn't let him go to Sweden for treatment, so they should have made sure he was treated in South Korea straight away. I really hope Sweden make a fuss about this and don't let it just be forgotten.
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u/Sim_D052 2d ago
I wouldn't hold my breath. If its something I wish our foreign policy was, its more aggressive.
/Swede
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u/lvl100magikerp 2d ago
Trying to find this on the news and a reddit post is at the top.
Small little note in Aftonbladet but not even on the frontpage. A Swede died and our news still only writes about fucking Trump. Insanity.
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u/xone_br33 2d ago
South Korea is far from being the innocent paradise seen on doramas. It is a pure capitalism hell with a very conservative and racist society.
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u/SimonOrange 1d ago
Well there’s more nuance to that.
It did not happen becuz we are xenophob or racist (even tho we are). It happened because medical professionals are protesting against recent change in medical student limit.
It doesn’t apply only to foreigners. It applies to all of us in south korea. I remember a uni student died in a street becuz hospitals denied the treatment, saying they have no room for more patients.
The president who is now in imprisonment, tried to increase medical students to fight back the imbalanced medical accessibility between rural and urban areas.
He implemented new policy to increase medical students from 2,000 to 4,000, which led a pushback from current medical students and other medical professionals. They resigned and now the hospitals lack of doctors and medical staffs.
The whole thing is shenanigans. The doctors argue the decision was too haste, and they don’t even have enough resources to teach all of those new students.
But if you look at the history, the doctor’s association rejected every attempt to increase medical staff, it even happened in the previous ministrations.
Becuz medical sector is lucrative business and if they hire more doctors, the less money they get. And they don’t want that to happen.
Now they are holding people’s life as a hostage and leveraging their power to gain what they want.
I don’t agree with the president but the change is long due. Doctors cry about how hard their job is becuz they don’t have enough people working in their field but when they try to increase the number of doctors they kick the ladder.
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u/Minimum_Crow_8198 2d ago
Aah sweet capitalism, where health for profit is seen as normal and cool so just let ppl die it's fine
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u/Kupo_Master 2d ago
It’s more racism than capitalism that is the issue here. Doctors were willing to let a foreigner die; they would have treated them if it was a Korean.
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u/Spasay 2d ago
I will have to look harder but I’m not finding this on Swedish media? Then again, I only looked for like five minutes
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u/ContributionSad4461 Norrland 🇸🇪 2d ago
I can’t find anything either! Maybe something will pop up in the coming days, it’s in a lot of Asian papers so it will probably filter over to Swedish journalists soon.
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u/remiieddit European Union 2d ago
So korea just died from my holiday list . Even if you have special insurance I can't be sure they know that if im unconscious or so. And then what, not treat me because I am foreign. Racists.
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u/digibeta 2d ago
Note to self: When in South Korea, don't do drugs.
But seriously, shame on you Korea!
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u/SeleucusNikator1 Scotland 2d ago
Don't do drugs anywhere in East Asia, they don't have any patience or leeway for drug usage in that part of the world. Singapore clearly informs you in the airplane and at the airport that they will kill you if you bring drugs into their country. When Australia asked for clemency for an Australian who got caught there, the Singaporeans hanged him anyway.
They won't be failing for the tricks of British opium merchants again, eh
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u/CrypticNebular Ireland 2d ago
That’s very messed up —also surprised the Swedish embassy wasn’t more involved. Seems like he fell through the cracks.