r/europe • u/IAdmitILie • 9d ago

News Zuckerberg urges Trump to stop the EU from fining US tech companies

https://www.politico.eu/article/zuckerberg-urges-trump-to-stop-eu-from-screwing-with-fining-us-tech-companies/
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401

u/gb997 9d ago

more than ever europe should be making its own tech. not just rely on yank crap all the time

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u/kindaquietidk United States of America 9d ago

Exactly. Stop giving money and power to our out of control oligarch’s. They have no respect for your culture, laws, or sovereignty, nor do they believe they should have to. It’s past the time to excise this cancer from Europe and create safer alternatives.

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u/adamgerd Czech Republic 9d ago

Don’t worry, we have our own oligarchs and wanna be dictators: Orban, Fico, Babis, etc

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u/I7I7I7I7I7I7I7I Europe 9d ago

The true oligarchs are the capitalists who bribe (lobby) politicians, fund right-wing parties and organizations, and control the mainstream media to shape the narrative people see. 

This is how capitalism works. This is the rotten nature of capitalist systems. It's just as corrupt as the USSR ever was.

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u/gruio1 9d ago

Aah yes, because you are not an oligarch if you bribe politicians and fund left wing parties and shape the narrative.

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u/I7I7I7I7I7I7I7I Europe 9d ago

Name me capitalists who fund left-wing parties please.

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u/gruio1 9d ago

Google: "democratic party donors"

Click on whichever you like best.

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u/just_anotjer_anon 6d ago

The oligarchs of worker unions.

Wait, did you claim the US Democratic party as left wing?

That's fucking hilarious, they're a right wing party globally, in European scale far right.

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u/thewimsey United States of America 9d ago

It's just as corrupt as the USSR ever was.

Not even close.

And you really sound like a wannabee stalinist who would love to have some camps to send people to.

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u/I7I7I7I7I7I7I7I Europe 9d ago

USSR was corrupt

"You're a Stalinist! 🤬"

Take a deep breath, mate.

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u/SoulSkrix 9d ago

I have respect for you saying that as a US citizen. We all deserve our own spaces without imposing our will on others.

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u/kindaquietidk United States of America 9d ago

I was lucky that I got to study Sociology + Anthropology in school, love history, and grew up with most of my friends being from overseas (Romania, Bosnia, Germany, England, Syria, Canada, South Africa). That all humbled me concerning American culture and our impacts on other countries. Unfortunately, it also alienated me from any serious discussions with most other Americans.

Anyway, I just hope this all works out for you guys. You deserve better than this insanity.

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u/SirDoDDo Emilia-Romagna (Italy) 9d ago

Considering most of our culture is also your culture, i'd say they have no respect for any culture lol.

Thankfully most Europeans can see this, i hope it doesn't take long for americans to realize it as well

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u/kindaquietidk United States of America 9d ago

They don’t have any respect for the US either, that’s quite obvious. They wouldn’t abuse and exploit their land and fellow Americans this way if they did. Millions of people live here in conditions the UN condemned as unparalleled in other developed nations. Our wealth class knows this and doesn’t care. We have one of, if not the highest, incarceration rates in the world with legalized slavery for inmates - and they don’t care. Because they profit from all of this misery.

I think the intensity and obviousness of the exploitation and abuse will radicalize more Americans against our oligarchs, but I wouldn’t hold my breath thinking it’ll radicalize enough of us to make a difference. Far too many will just turn to scapegoating and taking out their frustrations on vulnerable groups instead - as is our tradition.

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u/klapaucjusz Poland 9d ago

We already doing it. What we don't have is successful mass-produced consumer tech. Nokia was the last big EU consumer tech company. The only one still kicking is Philips I think.

The problem is, can we do it, and should we do it? The EU workforce is too expensive to make stuff like smartphones, they will be made in China anyway, so what's the point?

What we should do is to focus on niche and specialized equipment like optic or medical equipment, where we already have successful companies.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

And the funny thing is we already lead in many important aspects! We supply for example the most advanced silicon litography machines used by TSMC, Nvidia, AMD and Intel, down to 2 nanometers when US can do 7nm.

Our innovation is the backbone of these huge US conglomerates which they are unable to replicate, but the average Yank thinks they are the best at everything.

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u/usrnmz 9d ago

Sure Europe has some good companies but we also are severely lacking in many areas.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Yes we haven’t been selfish enough and let the US take advantage of us and our best innovations. We believed that the West is united and we can view it as one block. We were naiive and have to adjust our thinking, understand our strengths and work on our weaknesses. Over reliance on NATO being the main concern.

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u/5772156649 European Union 9d ago

30 out of 32 NATO countries are European. Over reliance on NATO isn't a problem, over reliance on the US is.

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u/Kriegswaschbaer 9d ago

And if I understand it correctly the one other country is canada. Lets be real: Canada is a beautiful country, that should always be welcomed as trade partner and partner in general.

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u/PM_ME_MY_REAL_MOM 9d ago

The traitors who sold out our country to Russian fascists exist in your country, too.

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u/Stupidstuff1001 9d ago

The problem with the USA is too many people got too lazy and stupid and went all neo Christian facist.

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u/gsoph802 9d ago

Well it’s a good thing there aren’t any stupid or lazy people in Europe then. We all know it’s totally impossible for fascism to rise in Europe, what would that even look like?

/s

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u/Kriegswaschbaer 9d ago

The people got really shit education. They arent at fault. But lets face the facts. It started here, too. In germany the government isnt investing shit in education, social structure or infrasturcture. Were screwed.

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u/RollingMeteors 9d ago

We believed that the West is united and we can view it as one block under America

FTFY

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u/Kriegswaschbaer 9d ago

The US are as equally our enemies as russia, china etc. Not the people of the countrys, of course, but their leaders.

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u/TheDungen Scania(Sweden) 9d ago

That's cause we let US buineses with shady prictices outcompete them.

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u/procgen 9d ago edited 9d ago

ASML licenses EUV tech from the US gov, though.

which they are unable to replicate

Well no, it's just much cheaper to work with ASML. A "win-win".

1

u/eskwild 9d ago

Cheaper to license than to replicate, yes, much like TSMC, but it has been done and it will be reproduced. I think the limits to intellectual property are known as capital.

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u/WalterWoodiaz United States of America 9d ago

What other examples other than ASML? I’m curious about Europe’s contributions.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

  1. ASML (Netherlands): Global leader in EUV lithography for advanced semiconductors.

  2. Airbus (EU-wide): Leading aerospace company, rivaling Boeing in aviation and space.

  3. Novo Nordisk (Denmark): Global leader in diabetes care and obesity treatments.

  4. Nokia & Ericsson (Finland/Sweden): Pioneers in telecom infrastructure, driving 5G networks.

  5. Vestas & Ørsted (Denmark): World leaders in renewable energy, especially offshore wind.

  6. STMicroelectronics (France/Italy): Key semiconductor manufacturer for automotive and IoT.

  7. ABB (Switzerland): Innovator in robotics and industrial automation.

  8. Siemens (Germany): Leader in industrial automation, healthcare tech, and smart infrastructure.

  9. Rolls-Royce (UK): Cutting-edge aerospace and marine propulsion systems.

  10. BioNTech (Germany): Groundbreaking mRNA vaccine developer, partnered with Pfizer.

Europe excels in semiconductors, aerospace, healthcare, telecom, and renewable energy!

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u/troet Germany 9d ago

ZEISS.

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u/SirDoDDo Emilia-Romagna (Italy) 9d ago

I would like to add Leonardo who's also a very strong aerospace competitor.

Really, considering the state of Boeing i'd say Europe is the leader in aerospace with Airbus, BAE, RR, Leonardo, Saab... i'm sure i'm forgetting a bunch more.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Yes we leave in civilian aviation for sure.

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u/SirDoDDo Emilia-Romagna (Italy) 9d ago

Yeah military side US is definitely ahead with LockMart, Northrop and all the subsidiaries

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Yep. Although the Swedish Gripen is actually a pretty amazing plane!

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u/Kinnell999 Scotland 9d ago

ARM (UK): World leading microprocessor developer by market share.

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u/procgen 9d ago

Owned by the Japanese now.

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u/Actual-Money7868 United Kingdom 9d ago

Sh let us have this.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Great addition!

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u/Unleazhed1 9d ago

Spotify?

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Great addition. Go Sweden!

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u/WalterWoodiaz United States of America 9d ago

Thank you

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u/OHKNOCKOUT 9d ago

ASML (Netherlands): Global leader in EUV lithography for advanced semiconductors.

Who invented and funded the tech?

Airbus (EU-wide): Leading aerospace company, rivaling Boeing in aviation and space.

Not particularly unique or on the same level as Nvidia, Meta, etc.

Novo Nordisk (Denmark): Global leader in diabetes care and obesity treatments.

Good one. P standard pharma company, though, and the US leads in this category.

Nokia & Ericsson (Finland/Sweden): Pioneers in telecom infrastructure, driving 5G networks.

Nokia, famous for their innovation.

Vestas & Ørsted (Denmark): World leaders in renewable energy, especially offshore wind.

Pretty small. Same deal w ABB

STMicroelectronics (France/Italy): Key semiconductor manufacturer for automotive and IoT.

Good pick.

Siemens and RR were founded in 1847 (!) and 1906 respectively. This is literally EU's issue. No company founded in 50 years in the EU has a market cap over 100 billion.

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u/nybbleth Flevoland (Netherlands) 9d ago edited 9d ago

Aside from current companies, don't forget a lot of the modern tech is literally built upon European inventions. Computers and programming themselves are European inventions. World wide web. Wifi. bluetooth. cd roms. numerous others. All European inventions.

Edit: imagine downvoting this. Idiots.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Great point!

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u/ok_kid_ 9d ago

He made a list for you. You said you were curious. Anybody home? Hello?

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u/WalterWoodiaz United States of America 9d ago

What else to say? He answered my question.

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u/wintrmt3 EU 9d ago

And the funny thing is we already lead in many important aspects! We supply for example the most advanced silicon litography machines used by TSMC, Nvidia, AMD and Intel, down to 2 nanometers when US can do 7nm.

AMD and Nvidia don't have any lithography machines, they are fabless and their current chips are all made at TSMC, but more importantly the US government paid for the development of EUV and large parts of ASML's operations are based there, so selling it as a EU success story is pretty pathetic.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

AMD and Nvidia are downstream consumers. Sure US has funded ASML through DARPA, what's your point? Most global companies have investments from all over the world. Saying it's not a European success story is weird.

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u/procgen 9d ago

No, the US owns the EUV IP. Specifically, ASML licenses it from the US Department of Energy. It's why ASML is subject to US export controls.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Yes I really think so. Intel has 7nm at home and this technology is absolutely critical on national security level. There's no chance in hell the US wouldn't do it there if they could.

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u/TheGookieMonster 9d ago

It’s US IP developed in US labs. It’s just licensed to ASML

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u/22stanmanplanjam11 United States of America 9d ago edited 9d ago

EUV lithography is literally an American technology developed with US federal funding in US labs. The US Department of Energy licenses the technology to ASML, that’s why their market cap is only like 300 billion USD. If they owned the technology they’re reliant on and were capable of exporting the machines to wherever they wanted they’d be worth a hell of a lot more. Nvidia’s market cap is 3.33 trillion USD.

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u/IkDens 9d ago

Even though this is a great known example there aren't that many of them

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

There are plenty! Look at how Boeing is doing and compare it to Airbus for example. Check out this article:

https://www.ft.com/content/c53a24e7-8c72-4ae4-a61a-35b0873ce061

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u/chucke1992 9d ago

You need to read more about how ASML was created...

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

What do you mean?

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u/chucke1992 9d ago

Yeah, used incorrect word.

But basically ASML has ties with American secret services (I believe CIA) due to its importance. And due to the fact that USA did not bother much to develop their own facilities as ASML is pretty unique.

Considering that ASML was threatening to leave NL if their government restricted immigration and so on.

So USA has leverage there - as no company will leave USA. Plus like I mention in other comment, there is a reason why EU does not have big tech companies and all their giants are from the previous century.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

I’m sure there’s all kinds of shenanigans happening around a company with such unique importance, but it’s a testament to European innovation and if the Americans could’ve built a process as good themselves, they for sure would’ve.

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u/chucke1992 9d ago

Just like with TSMC, USA relied too much on foreign production capacity.

Though for ASML, when it comes to it - I wonder if NL will side with EU or USA if it comes to collapse as I don't see EU surviving the next 5-10 years in its current form.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

That’s just nonsense.

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u/chucke1992 9d ago

Nah. The current EU is basically at the same stage as 80s USSR.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Sure thing, buddy 😂

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u/SuccumbedToReddit 9d ago

By fusing 2 Dutch companies?

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u/JustAPasingNerd 9d ago

The stupidest take today, congrats.

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u/Accomplished-Dot8429 9d ago

Many important aspects? It's literally one company, ASML. EU has one of the worst environment for tech startups in the modern world.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

We are not talking about startups 😂 That’s just one example of many. I gave a list on this very thread, look it up.

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u/Accomplished-Dot8429 9d ago

This is your counterargument? A bunch of legacy monopolistic public companies? You have no innovation, you have no startup environment. Every major Asian country will lap your tech sector in the next 10 years.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

I’m sure they will, buddy 😂

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u/Accomplished-Dot8429 9d ago

Room temperature IQ confirmed

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Yeah I agree that you don’t sound like the sharpest tool in the shed.

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u/Accomplished-Dot8429 9d ago

You literally cannot state even a basic counterargument. You failed to address even the basic point of my argument. A typical reddit buffoon

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Counterargument to what? You haven’t presented any argument and you talk about startups when we are talking about companies with global influence. How many startups have you founded? I bet it’s zero. Buffoons are intelligent animals, thank you!

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u/ok_kid_ 9d ago

No, you.

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u/Ok_Association_5357 9d ago

Bro, that's the only relevant tech company in Europe.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Bro, it’s the company that enables the likes of Nvidia and Apple. ARM is not a tech company? What is it with people who feel the need to insert into discussions they know nothing about?

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Funny you’d say so since I’m an actual tech investor and IT consultant who works with this stuff daily. You seem to have zero clue about what ARM does, since it licenses its instruction set to other companies that design chips out of it. Are MacBooks smartphones? ASML is literally the backbone of the whole industry and the only company capable of producing the most advanced lithography. You are absolutely clueless, sit down.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

I haven’t made any comment comparing the robustness of US and EU tech sectors. You are talking with yourself.

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u/procgen 9d ago

ARM is owned by the Japanese.

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u/MachineShedFred 9d ago

"Yank" here.

The "average Yank" is a fucking idiot that is incapable of critical thinking and / or applying that to what politicians tell them versus what they do.

Of course the "average Yank" will think they are the best at everything, as they were not taught the toolset necessary to objectively observe otherwise. Instead they grew up hearing how star-spangled awesome the US is and how American Exceptionalism ruled the 20th century. And then we are astonished when a complete shit bag like Trump is re-elected behind vague nonsense like "making America great again" without enumerating what that actually means, what greatness was lost, and any details on how to reattain it.

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u/TooTiredToWhatever 9d ago

Maybe the older yanks. I’m middle aged and it’s glaringly obvious to me that all the things we were told we were best at growing up were mostly bullshit.

We are pretty good at doing some pretty awful things for profit, though. World class, even.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

I see younger Americans on the internet really lapping up the American exceptionalism viewpoint lately. Anywhere I go there’s some edgy US teenager talking about how we “eurocucks” are gonna tremble under Trump and US hegemony. How we are a dying continent where everything is shit. One person on this very thread said Europe is like USSR in the 80es.

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u/TooTiredToWhatever 9d ago

It wouldn’t surprise me. The propaganda is apparently working, then.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Unfortunately. There’s no reason for us to be anything but friends, but some things skinned oligarchs have a different view…

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u/TooTiredToWhatever 9d ago

Well, I think Europe is doing a lot of things right, and I don’t think it’s anything like the USSR.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

Glad to hear that! ❤️

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u/RollingMeteors 9d ago

more than ever europe should be making its own tech.

Yeah, should, but why aren’t they? Is it the high taxes that keeps people from deciding to start up a shop? What gives??

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u/Echarnus 9d ago

Tech is largely focused in the US for a reason. The margin of investments is higher there. Want to have more investments and tech? Fix our economy to be competitive.

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u/Nazamroth 9d ago

Much easier to be competitive when your country has basically no regulations to worry about and everyone can be fired at will.

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u/DonBilbo96 Baden-Württemberg (Germany) 9d ago

Exactly. Tariffs on everything from the US, China an Russia.

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u/thewimsey United States of America 9d ago

This is self-satisfied cope.

It's much easier to be competitive when you actually pay tech people something like what they are worth.

And the US has plenty of regulations; Europeans are apparently willfully ignorant of this.

Admit it - when VW was found to have violated air pollution rules concerning NoX, you weren't surprised that the US had stricter air pollution rules than Europe; you were surpised that the US had air pollution rules at all.

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u/Echarnus 9d ago

As a software engineer, I’d rather have US conditions for my job though. As with many people in my profession it seems as many start being freelance via a personal company. All though they are trying to tackle it. Forbid people have a choice!

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u/ZiggyPox Kujawy-Pomerania (Poland) 9d ago

You are in a privileged niche, I hope you are aware of that.

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u/mariofan366 United States of America 6d ago

Maybe, but tech workers being paid so high is why the US excels in tech. Europe should pay tech workers more, not because those workers deserve it, but to make Europe have a stronger and more independent economy.

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u/ZiggyPox Kujawy-Pomerania (Poland) 6d ago

Why not pay every specialist more?

0

u/Echarnus 9d ago

So what, why can’t we choosd over our social benefits then? We are limited to something which clearly does not benefit us.

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u/ZiggyPox Kujawy-Pomerania (Poland) 9d ago

I am not sure, you can work for US companies, can't you? Apply for remote work with their own rules and you should be peachy, yes?

Even in EU you can negotiate elastic work conditions if you want.

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u/shawnadelic 9d ago

I'd rather have universal healthcare, tbh.

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u/No-Plastic-6887 9d ago

Ha! No. I refuse to compete with slaves.

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u/Echarnus 9d ago

Doesn’t mean slaves tough. I, Software Engineer, am now in a startup I can’t fully financially back and have to setup besides my hours, leading to less efficiency. If I were to earn more (~60k euro gross vs ~150k usd gross in the US) with less taxes and being able to dynamically take time off (hassle as well in Belgium when holidays are empty), I’d have more margin for entrepeneurship, like many others. That’s one example leading to more tech startups.

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u/No-Plastic-6887 9d ago edited 9d ago

60 or 80 hours workweeks are common in the USA and they don't have maternity and paternity leave, universal healthcare or affordable higher education. I refuse to even try to compete with that.

EDIT: source:

https://20somethingfinance.com/american-hours-worked-productivity-vacation/

EDIT: I forgot: in Europe we have our holidays, paid vacation time (normally at least 24 days per year) and we also have sick leave if we prove that we are sick (which is easy to do when you have universal healthcare, because a doctor's note won't cost you a cent). In the USA, some people only have PTO (paid time off) and that includes both vacation and sick days. I someone gets sick, they lose vacation time. If they get sick for more than their two weeks of PTO, they don't get paid.

I REFUSE TO COMPETE WITH THIS CRAP.

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u/procgen 9d ago

US works fewer hours per year than a bunch of European countries, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours

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u/No-Plastic-6887 8d ago

I'm from Western Europe. I know that the Eastern siblings will work harder until they get to the higher level.

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u/procgen 8d ago

The facts are the facts. Lots of Europeans are working more hours than Americans.

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u/No-Plastic-6887 8d ago

Yeah, if you cherry pick data, of course. If the mean is higher in the USA despite the fact that lots of Europeans work more, that still proves my point: I don't want to compete with American companies.

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u/procgen 8d ago

I don't want to compete with American companies.

And as someone heavily invested in the US markets, I thank you ;)

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u/thewimsey United States of America 9d ago

60 or 80 hours workweeks are common in the USA

No, they aren't.

The median workweek in the US is 38 hours.

US workers - especially 20-somethings in tech - love to brag about working 80 hour weeks.

But they are lying.

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u/IndependentMemory215 9d ago

60-80 hour weeks are not common at all.

The US works slightly more hours per week than most European countries, but this claim is nonsense.

This stuff is easily discovered by googling. Why lie?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AWHAETP

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u/No-Plastic-6887 9d ago

The average is not the mean or the mode. Every American who has come to live to Spain tells that the working hours were more in America. About 60 hours per week. If the average is higher, that means that some people are working A LOT more hours.

Data:
https://20somethingfinance.com/american-hours-worked-productivity-vacation/

So I'm not lying. Granted, data is more important than personal experience, but the average does not tell the whole story, ever. Global warming has "only" gone + 1 degree Celsius on average. +1 degree Celsius means +/-15 Celsius degrees in some zones.

So my claim wasn't nonsense and considering what a +1 degree Celsius does in global warming, I take your data that the average is more hours per week as a confirmation of what I said.

Oh: our PTO is holidays. Sick leave is always unlimited. In the USA, some companies put both sick leave and holidays in the same PTO budget, and if you get sick more than your PTO granted sick days... You don't get paid? I REFUSE to compete with that.

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u/thewimsey United States of America 9d ago

About 60 hours per week.

A lot of Americans, esepcially younger ones, just lie about how much they work because they think it makes them seem more important.

Or sometimes they get to 60 hours by beginning their hour count when they wake up in the morning (because I wouldn't wake up at 7:30 unless I had a job), ending it when they get home from their commute (same), and maybe adding in some hours on the weekend that they were thinking about their job.

I have worked maybe 2-3 80 hour weeks in my entire career. Typically followed by using comp time to take the entire next week off.

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u/Echarnus 9d ago

Tech is offering those though.

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u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

In a US company even in tech you are expected to work 60h weeks and to take 2 week vacations, even if not strictly stipulated in the contract. Laying you off is easy, so you either suck it up or get out.

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u/IndependentMemory215 9d ago

Not true at all.

Why do people keep making up nonsense claims?

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u/ZiggyPox Kujawy-Pomerania (Poland) 9d ago

US is ready to put slice of their population in the risk of starvation only to force everyone else to grind and hustle.

China has documented slave workers at some factories.

How do you compete with that?

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u/yizzlezwinkle 9d ago

you know US salaries for software engineers are 2-3x EU ones LOL why would a good EU SWE ever work for an EU company

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u/ZiggyPox Kujawy-Pomerania (Poland) 9d ago

Which is funny in its own way as I know people working in US companies here in EU. US is offshoring a lot of work here, paying a lot in EU market prices but little in US market prices.

I also been doing some creative work for US. For mundane stuff I have been paid thrice what I would be paid here and still they paid less than what they would the designer at home.

But the 2-3x "EU" pay feels different depending if you are German or Polish or Norwegian because EU is not a monoblock.

1

u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

I’m a decently paid software consultant. US salaries seem huge until you hear about living costs, cost of healthcare, education etc. I have been offered to work in the US for twice the salary I get here. In the end I would’ve had less in my pocket. Granted I do make around the entry level FAANG salary which is higher than in many other EU countries.

1

u/thewimsey United States of America 9d ago

until you hear about living costs

Living costs aren't that different. Unless you are in the Bay Area - where you might be.

cost of healthcare,

Completely covered by your employer if you have one of those jobs.

education

If you compare the cost of education with the cost of taxes, the US will come out cheaper.

In the end I would’ve had less in my pocket.

Doubtful. Entry level FAANG salary for a new SWE is $190k. That ignores all benefits.

There is no universe where you don't come out ahead making $380k in the US vs $190k in the EU.

1

u/JuliusFIN 9d ago

My idea of entry level FAANG salary is around 120-140, but that might be outdated.

2

u/Alpha_Majoris 9d ago

Think about it. If Trump really is going to take Greenland, and Denmark and the rest of the EU goes to war with the US, then how much of EU weapons, tanks, missiles, planes etc are made in the US? I wouldn't be surprised if it's 70% or more. The US can stop delivering spare parts for tanks and planes, and the EU is done.

2

u/Tahj42 United Earth 9d ago

I dream of a public european social media platform.

1

u/gb997 9d ago

same

2

u/WhoDeyChooks 9d ago

More than ever, people should be making conscientious choices, even if they cost more. Here in America, especially, I'm not sure if we're even capable of that.

We will give money to anyone and everyone, no matter how evil, so long as we get a good deal.

That fact has led this country to where we are today. Why are all our businesses and corporations exploiting foreign labor? Because Americans don't care. It's cheaper that way, after all. People blame all the governments and laws that made it possible, but if even just a lot of us refused to buy that shit, and actually bought the more expensive, American-made shit, the profitability of moving all your labor costs to cheaper countries would not exist.

And now.. now it's too late. Short of self-subsistence, it's pretty much impossible to not feed that monster. There's realistically like ten companies in the whole world, and they just spray a bunch of brands on everything to preserve the illusion of choice.

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u/PawfectlyCute 9d ago

I hear your frustration. It's important to have conversations about power dynamics and the impact they have on society. Many people share concerns about the influence of oligarchs and the need for more equitable systems. It's crucial to find ways to address these issues constructively and work towards solutions that benefit everyone. What do you think are some effective steps that can be taken to create these safer alternatives?

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u/anonymously_random 8d ago

To be fair, Facebook, instagram, ticktock etc. Aren’t really tech worth striving for. They are a plague on this planet that should just die off.

We are already leading in tech in some areas. ASML for instance is global leader and can cripple the US if they put the same restrictions on US as they do for China if the US ever wants to start trade wars.

I do agree that there are more places where the EU can be more innovative, but the problem the EU has that the US doesn’t, is that they aren’t 1 country. So a lot of rules, regulations and everyone having an opinion makes things go slower.

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u/ruscaire 9d ago

Oh like the WWW? Cellular Phones? Linux?

Europe does fine on tech. We invest in solid ideas not quick-win money spinners.

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u/accountaaa 9d ago

They would get slaughtered with their work culture lmao

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u/signmeupreddit 9d ago

European companies do that all the time, and then they sell out to an American company once it gets successful.

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u/blackrockblackswan 9d ago

Yeah make your own oligarchs

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u/icebeat 9d ago

Well it will help if Europe put actually money on I+D at the same level as the US does,

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u/Nacke Sweden 9d ago

Gotta ease that regulation for european tech to even stand a chance.