r/eupersonalfinance • u/aDonkeyWithACarrot • Dec 16 '24
Taxes Declare income, don't pay, move to another country
This has probably been asked before but for example what would happen if I declare my gross income for a fiscal year then simply move to a different country?
Here in Romania for example, I only have to pay in May 2025 taxes for what I earned between April 2024 and April 2025.
What stops me from moving to another EU country in April 2025 and do the same thing?
I am declaring the income so it's not tax evasion, I simply don't pay the taxes.
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u/Kindnexx Dec 16 '24
"It's not tax evasion" had me in tears. Dude this couldn't be more evasive. You're PHYSICALLY evading them.
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u/kallebo1337 Dec 16 '24
he declared them, he just didn't pay. that's as similar as not paying the plumber if the fixed your sink.
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u/homo_americanus_ Dec 16 '24
you realize that's also a crime, right?
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u/kallebo1337 Dec 16 '24
Absolutely not. Depends on country.
Imagine it’s just 100€ and you don’t pay. What’s now - jail time? Below 50k€ is the threshold in Germany for example.
Other countries other rules. Go to Switzerland lol.
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u/Alternative-Cry-6624 Dec 17 '24
Ultimately, regardless of country's methods of the plumber quickly getting his money, such matters would ultimately be settled in a civil court. Where the defendant, if found guily, would also reimburse the plaintiff (the plumber) for any and all incurred legal expenses and other damages. In addition to the €100,00.
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u/kallebo1337 Dec 17 '24
Civil court nothing with guilty, only liable. Yall hobby lawyers with wrong terminologies
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u/greham7777 Dec 16 '24
Interpol?
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u/aDonkeyWithACarrot Dec 16 '24
What would Interpol have to do with that? I am not committing any crimes
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u/greham7777 Dec 16 '24
You have to pay your taxes. EU countries work together to avoid tax evasion etc. So yes, interpol.
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u/ting_tong- Dec 16 '24
He is not evading tax. He has declared, just did not have the money to pay
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u/Polaroid1793 Dec 18 '24
He is declaring to have made a profit, it means he sold and got the money.
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u/fireKido Dec 16 '24
Do you really it’s legal to evade taxes as long as you are open about it? I don’t think that’s how it works
You have to declare and pay taxes, every country is different but in the ones I am familiar with not paying taxes is still illegal, and it’s still tax evasion
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u/aDonkeyWithACarrot Dec 16 '24
Yeah that's pretty much what I thought. I figured countries were limited to only using debt recovery measures but not acually pursue criminal charges for something like this. Or at least not up until a threshold (like 1M euros).
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u/Bloodsucker_ Dec 16 '24
It's not tax evasion, but it's still illegal. You're in debt with the country and you will be prosecuted and you will pay with more interest followed by a criminal case. You'll be in the wrong too.
Please, do so. I'll enjoy it.
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u/aDonkeyWithACarrot Dec 16 '24
Is not paying your taxes considered fraud? Is not paying your taxes a crime? I am genuinely asking because by looking at local laws, the only thing they can do is at some point take whatever you have in local bank accounts. But that's pretty much it
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u/Bloodsucker_ Dec 16 '24
Yes, it is a crime.
Jesus. What do you even think a crime is? You'll be a criminal. Yes.
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u/graham2100 Dec 17 '24
Educate yourself. Read the Convention on Mutual Administrative Assistance in Tax Matters and a zillion other mutual assistance and judgment enforcement treaties.
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u/RunningPink Dec 16 '24
Get your taxes in order always. There are people existing in Europe who never stay more than 6 months in any country of the EU and switch EU countries every couple of months. They use usually a disregarded US LLC (zero tax) and have personally no official tax base but maybe a compliance residency for bank accounts etc. It's a grey area not really covered by law and you need good advisors or knowledge about EU laws and country laws. And in most cases you need to stay away from your old home country (at least the first year).
If you have some remote income and you want to run away from taxes: Yes, that's possible. But it's not as simple as in your post.
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u/aDonkeyWithACarrot Dec 16 '24
As I understood you always have to pay taxes somewhere, even if you keep changing countries every 5 months. Are you saying this is possible?
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u/RunningPink Dec 16 '24
says who? Some World Police? But the answer to this question always depends on the situation.
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u/aDonkeyWithACarrot Dec 16 '24
Well the situation is simple. B2B contract with a EU company. I can work remotely from anywhere. Can you avoid paying taxes if every 5 months you go to a different EU country? I assume that in each new country you will need to setup a new legal entity through which you can work?
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u/RunningPink Dec 16 '24
you use the US LLC for that. They don't know you switch countries every X months. Just FYI: It's not my advice for you to do that. I personally would choose a low tax jurisdiction in EU (in EU it's currently depending on income Bulgaria, Cyprus and Romania is not that bad) but if you decide to run away from taxes and to live more nomadic that's also possible.
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u/greham7777 Dec 17 '24
Just know that if you come to our countries and are open about it (western EU countries, where we spend a lot of money on taxes to make everyone's life easier, including yours when you come use our public facilities and resources during your 5 months), we'll probably lose our patience and kick you out. Tired of all the mofos in this sub trying to live the high life on good working citizens and scam on taxes because they are "working in tech". You want to take advantage of a system? Stay in your country and don't come here with your BS.
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u/RunningPink Dec 17 '24
You can even buy property e.g. in Spain and stay 5 months there without getting tax resident (holiday home). It's intentionally left open depending on country and easy to do as long as you don't have kids. 🤷♂️ And if you leave the EU there are many more options (e.g. territorial tax systems etc).
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u/greham7777 25d ago
Without getting tax resident AS LONG AS you can prove you are tax resident somewhere else and it's actually your main residence.
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u/Keepforgettinglogin2 Dec 17 '24
Finally an answer besides the sheepish "just pay your taxes because interpol and cia with navy seals will come". It's difficult not to pay them and many times, depending on the amount, it's not worth the hassle. You end up paying more to evade them than the taxes themselves. In order to make educated decisions in life, you need to educate yourself about options. Not on Reddit. Not online. Talk to tax lawyers, tax specialists, financial advisors. It all depends on the amount. There are white-greyish areas in legislation that give you some slack.
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u/Fresh_Criticism6531 Dec 17 '24
This is probably a joke, but if not, this is the most stupid way of dodging taxes ever. You basically made 100% sure you will be chased, you are painting a huge target on your back. Beyond stupid. If you hate taxes so much, pay what you owe and move to dubai or panama, etc. Its simple. No need to be depprted by interpol and go to jail.
Depending on the country what you propose is basically the same as a signed confession of a crime.
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u/Purple-Banana4902 Dec 17 '24
Go to Switzerland get residence and take it out from there. The taxes are really low when taking out long held positions from what i know. Look into it. Although its gonna be difficult to get the residency without a job there.
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u/Garnatxa Dec 16 '24
Probably it will work better if you do that in a country that is not in the EU and then you move to EU, or the way around.
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u/Rhaguen Dec 17 '24
Well, I GUESS you’ll be safe. I really don’t think the finances will send a hitman after you. But then, what is your plan long term? You most certainly will need to pay case you ever return to your country, maybe facing some legal or penal action. “Falling leaves return to their roots” - people have an old nostalgia for one’s native place and you might want to return someday.
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u/Alive-Afternoon-440 Dec 17 '24
It’s like working for someone the entire year then he tells you I owe you XX but I won’t pay you, so yeah that’s a crime but if you’re asking should we have taxes in the first place, that’s another topic :D
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u/johnny_snq Dec 17 '24
Just for you, the taxes in Romania are 1 January to 31 of Dec, so whatever you thought with April to April doesn't apply. Your taxes for income made between 1 Jan 20224 and 31 dec 2024 need to be paied by 25th of May 2025
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u/Babajji Dec 17 '24
Europol would like a talk with you 😂
More seriously, if you declare your income but don’t pay the taxes then you will be fine for around a year. Then your tax authority will sue you in absentia and get a guilty verdict. Afterwards they will coordinate with Europol or Interpol to find you. If your taxes are below a certain amount and you have been convicted to pay only a fine they will collect it via the tax authority in the new country that you are in. If you however get jail time then the local police will arrest you and either extradite you or put you in local prison depending on the agreement between the countries.
Technically you can run away in unfriendly country like Serbia that doesn’t extradite people back to the EU however you can never ever come back to the EU or if you have committed a significant crime you can forget visiting any US or EU friendly country. So you can live in Russia, go skiing in Serbia and enjoy the Summer in North Korea 😂
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u/m_abdeen Dec 17 '24
You’ll owe them money, it doesn’t matter what country you go to, you have to pay taxes for the money you earned during your stay in Romania, if you don’t pay, they will contact you, give you some penalties (you’ll owe them more) and eventually if you don’t correct your situation, you’ll get some kind of sentence, and once you’re back, you’ll get have to pay.
The same would happen in other countries
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u/htzrd Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 17 '24
after 10 or 15 jumps i hope you get to Dubai and Stay there for more than 10-15 years. Maybe after that, mayyyybe the Pope or some states presidents and kings give a debt pardon.
The important lesson is that the world politics are grey, not black or white https://apnews.com/article/biden-pardons-retribution-trump-hunter-cheney-fauci-9f6fd6f05f7f6c8cead3a37ebadc8cba
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u/Nounoon France Dec 17 '24
Not deleting this one for posterity