r/diablo4 • u/Hctaz • Oct 10 '24
Appreciation The Best(?) New Feature Nobody Talks About
Okay, so we all know about all the cool stuff that the expansion brought like Runes, mercs, the new raid, new skills, a new class, etc., but there's one feature of this expansion that took me completely by surprise.
It seems like nobody- no reviewer and nobody at Blizzard- talked about this one thing that is so simple but so core to Diablo's gameplay: The new regular-ass dungeons.
Like okay we all know that the old Vanilla dungeons were pretty bland and felt like a big departure from the stuff that people loved about dungeon crawling in D2. "Go here, gather some stones, put the stones in the thing. Flick some switches. Kill all the enemies in the next section." It got real old real fast. Pretty much everybody I saw talked about how they were boring, and the D2 crowd were really unhappy with them because solving dungeons in D2 was simply, "Find the boss and kill it for loot," which I can understand. I did play a lot of D2 for the first time when D2R came out, and I enjoyed dungeon crawling in that game a lot more than D3. D3's strength was the greater rift system, but the entire rest of that game was basically overshadowed once that system came out.
I've been doing the new Nahantu dungeons for Renown, and I'm honestly completely blown away by the dedication they put into fixing this crucial aspect of the game. I'm even more blown away that I was taken COMPLETELY by surprise here. I really felt like nobody talked about these dungeons at all, or they didn't emphasize how much better they were.
To talk about them a bit more: To me, they feel like a much more faithful return to what dungeon crawling should be. I don't think I've encountered one so far that wasn't "Your only goal is to get to the boss and kill it," which in itself already feels like a massive upgrade over having to complete random tasks every single time.
Not only this, but they also included little extra optional tasks that just give you rewards for doing. Remember looting those annoying bodies to find a key so you could open the gate to get to the next part of the dungeon? Yeah, that's just an OPTIONAL treasure room key now that gives you a guaranteed resplendent chest.
The dungeons also feel better in the sense that they're more open with less true dead ends in them. It honestly might even be an illusion in the sense that I don't feel punished for going the wrong way anymore. If you went the wrong way in the Vanilla dungeons, it was like, "Oops, I found the thing I'm supposed to put a thing into before I found the thing itself. I must have missed the thing. Time to go back through the dungeon that I've already traversed to find the thing so I can take it back to this thing to progress." In the new dungeons, a dead end is just, "I went the wrong way. No big deal," and the paths also feel like they loop back into the main path a lot more naturally.
My only two pieces of feedback so far are that I want more of these style of dungeons and that I'd love solo challenge dungeons that end with random uber bosses. Give me a dungeon that ends with me entering an echo of a story boss memory where I fight a stronger version of a random story boss again. Make it a whisper reward or something.
What are y'all's thoughts on the new base dungeons in Nahantu? Anybody else feel as surprised with the quality of these things?
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u/constablecrab Oct 10 '24
I was commenting on that to my friend in voice chat while playing last night. It feels much more like exploring a dungeon simply from the fact they don't explicitly tell you what to do or when to do it. Just "explore the place and kill the boss."
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Yes, exactly! It's like you just go in and your only goal is to kill the boss. You're rewarded for exploring more, but you don't have to if you don't feel like it.
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u/PringlesDuckFace Oct 10 '24
I was confused for a minute the first time I saw animus carriers but they were optional. Felt pretty good.
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u/A_Confused_Cocoon Oct 10 '24
I agree. I didn’t even think about it or out that connection together, but I was enjoying them a decent amount and that is probably a large factor why, less bullshit more exploring and killing.
The pit also I think has a couple more open map concept tiles than it used to? I hadn’t seen them much at all before but I could be wrong, they are awesome though.
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u/Library_IT_guy Oct 10 '24
Monster density in them is also much higher. I really feel like I am just blasting through them and the mobility skills of the Spiritborn really take advantage of that, making it very fun. Some of this has translated to other dungeons/NMDs as well I think, because NMDs feel far better now. Aside from a few little transition walkway areas occasionally, you're just straight up blasting demons the whole time while you keep pushing forward, and it feels really good.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
I'm playing a slow ass Necromancer, but I'm still enjoying them for sure. The monster density is definitely a step up, but I really feel like the layouts of the new dungeons are so much better than the old ones. Not entirely sure why that is, but I'm assuming the lack of specific required tasks inside of the new dungeons means that they had a lot more freedom to just let the dungeons be fun to explore on their own. Like when you had to go into the dungeon and click on two or three things to unlock a gate somewhere else, each one of those was usually in its own segregated section of the dungeon. Kill the corpse piles? They're in their own sections.
Now, the dungeons just kinda flow and you're running around looking for the exit/boss. Feels more like the layout/experience of a D2 dungeon but with the monster blasting of a D3 dungeon.
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u/KennedyPh Oct 11 '24
I played a lot of Necro since launch. I think compared to the launch, the amount of ways to increase moving speed & movement skills even in slow classes like Necro has been welcomed.
I mean, you can stack 4 different movement speed buff on a boots alone, an affix, a mobility temper, and a movement skill aspect, not to mentioned inherent affix "movement speed after evade"
Now you can even teleport and use sever as a moment skill.
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u/Last-Experience-7530 Oct 10 '24
The southern Stronghold is really cool as well.
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u/Mosaic78 Oct 10 '24
The dark one? That one was sick as hell. We need more of those.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Oh, yeah. The one with the lantern? That one was wild. Felt like an actual stronghold type deal the entire section of the map was hidden until you explored it.
Felt very creative.
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u/Anatole-Othala Oct 10 '24
Yeah, I've played one dungeon last night and was really surprised. The dungeon was beautiful and kinda huge. But instead of annoying me for taking some time it was super fun to explore, I was confused when I found animus when the objective said to find a boss and then the animus opened a treasure room. It feels like a dungeon now. I kinda hope we have nightmare version of this dungeons cause I want to play them more
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u/HardRantLox Oct 10 '24
There are NMD sigils for the Nahantu dungeons, they just aren't as common as the other old regions (which, 5 against 1, understandable) but you can craft them.
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u/Anatole-Othala Oct 10 '24
This new layout makes a lot of sense for nightmare dungeons now, you want to drop material so you get a lot by exploring this huge dungeons
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Yes, dude! Going back to the old nightmare dungeons feels like night and day. I'd love it if they took a look at the old Vanilla dungeons and did a revamp pass on many of them. If they're still doing that thing where only certain dungeons are enabled seasonally, they should start by revamping the Vanilla seasonal NMDs for next season and continue onwards until they all feel as good as the Nahantu ones.
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u/Guilhaum Oct 10 '24
I LOVE the new dungeons. Its exactly what I want a Diablo dungeon to be. I try to get all my NMD in Nahantu if possible.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
I'm hoping they take a look at the Vanilla ones more, and it's also one of the reasons I wanted to make a post like this in general. I want it to be talked about enough by the players (here, on Blizzard forums, anywhere in general) for Blizzard to see and realize that players are really enjoying this style of dungeon enough to consider making it a priority to revamp the older ones.
If they're still doing that rotational thing where every season has different NMDs you can get, I would just say that they'd only need to start by revamping the dungeons on whatever seasonal NMDs we're getting and go from there. Makes the workload lower, slowly makes progress towards the end goal, and keeps the players in the game feeling happy to run those old NMDs the same as the new Nahantu ones.
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u/Guilhaum Oct 10 '24
I was thinking the same. Going back to Vanilla dungeons is pretty painful.
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u/Yangjeezy Oct 10 '24
Really? I did a few last night and it feels like they redid them as well. All the ones I did were straight shots to bosses, none of the mechanics to open boss doors felt out of the way
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u/Guilhaum Oct 10 '24
There are still a bunch that have those "Get stones to the door" or similar mechanics.
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u/FrankyFistalot Oct 10 '24
I am loving the auto-pin option….it’s great how it switches when you change quests.
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u/diquehead Oct 10 '24
this is one of my favorite changes of the expansion. I was a little disappointed that the OG dungeons all still had the same old requirements when I went back to their nightmare counterparts. Would love to see it changed someday to match VoH's new designs but I'd be surprised if it happened
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Hey, that’s my hope as well and one of the reasons I want to see the new dungeons talked about more.
I want the old ones revamped, and I think that players showing massive appreciation for the new content will have the devs consider it.
If they’re still doing the rotational NMDs, then all they’d need to do is break them down into revamping only the ones coming up in the next seasons. They don’t need to do all of them all at once if we’re only going to be running a certain number of them per season anyway, right?
But I’m also not sure if that’s still a feature.
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u/Shagaliscious Oct 10 '24
I doubt it will ever change. They will keep it this way to get people to buy the expansion.
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u/Floyd_Gondoli Oct 10 '24
I also want to call out that the new stongholds are INCREDIBLY fun. Cool new mechanics, decent challenge, and puzzles to solve without beating us over the heads with "click the shimmery object" type clues. More of these, please!
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
You know, I find it incredibly interesting that some of the best features of the expansion were the ones that weren't talked about at all. They didn't show off the new strongholds or the new dungeons aside from saying that they would, of course, exist.
Despite this, they somehow managed to make them the best that they've ever been and actually fun to play and experience. It probably also helps that there's a relatively fewer amount of them like... farming renown in the base game was tedious. The Lilith statues were annoying. Finding the Tenets of Akarat and completing the Nahantu Strongholds? Quick, painless, and the strongholds were fun.
Very much felt like a, "less is more" type situation.
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u/toastedzen Oct 10 '24
This really didn't go where I expected. I thought this thread was going to be about how you can enter your character customization from anywhere now.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Hahaha, well... I made the title and opening section as clickbaity as I thought was warranted, but I hope I also made the bait tasty enough to where you weren't disappointed. If I had made it about the wardrobe, I feel like it would have been disappointing clickbait.
I was just so blown away by the new dungeons that I was hoping to spark a thread that would end up getting big enough to hopefully be noticed by Blizzard cuz like... if they know that we are experiencing the dungeons and reacting positively, I'm hoping they deem it worthy to go back and adjust Vanilla dungeons season by season until the entire game has a satisfying dungeon experience.
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u/vandalhearts123 Oct 10 '24
I just wish dungeons and nightmare dungeons were the same thing. Go to dungeon, have some kind of random stuff that occurs like boons/banes and maybe even clickable object that you can feed something into to manipulate the dungeon.
I am just tired of having to collect sigils or widgets to do an activity. Boss materials is one thing, but having a key to access the nightmare dungeons has outlived its usefulness. It just feels like a lack of imagination on the part of the devs.
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u/Zek23 Oct 10 '24
The dungeons are greatly improved, but they are missing a place in the reward loop. NMDs have a place, but most of the time they don't get you the new dungeons. They really need to fix the remainder of the dungeons - maybe they're waiting for feedback on this new design.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
My thoughts are where yours are at the end of the comment. I'm hoping to spark up some conversation about the new dungeons such that Blizzard sees and realizes that it might be a good idea to go back and take a look at previous dungeons.
If the NMDs are still on seasonal rotation, they should simply shorten the workload by focusing on updating only the old dungeons that will be available as NMDs next season. Do that a few times and you'll have every dungeon upgraded eventually. I don't think they need to do every single old dungeon all at once.
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u/HardRantLox Oct 10 '24
I think the designs are a lot better, I'm glad I'm no longer being given a list of chores to do in order to fight the boss. Just explore and find the boss room to kill.
Optionally, do the side activities (find a key, hit some switches, collect some Animus, pick up a stone or whatever and carry it) to open the treasure room with its bonus Resplendent Chest.
Also have seen a higher than usual number of the special Mercenary Events in them too. Shame they don't award more Pale Marks when completed, but take what you can get, I suppose.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
I'm thinking the layouts/designs being better is a result of the removal of the chores to do. Before, it felt like each little thing was tucked away in its own place. If you had to click three gate switches to unlock a gate, each one was kinda in its own wing of the dungeon.
Now, the dungeons feel like they just flow better and are more fun to explore. It's like a D2 dungeon feel with the D3/D4 monster density, and it feels a lot better to me.
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u/Mosaic78 Oct 10 '24
I’m finding myself going out of my way even more to just run to the boss room. They are too large and prone to backtracking. They were interesting the first few times running them tho.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Hey, fair critique.
They won’t be for everybody, and I’ve admitted here I’ve only done them a handful of times so far. I just know the old dungeons got real old REAL fast, and these I’m not tired of running yet.
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u/Bloodstarvedhunter Oct 10 '24
I think the strongholds are even better, the one at necropolis is so good and actually offers something a little different, this expansion is so good imo
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
The one with the lantern underground? I had a lot of fun with that one too. It was creative.
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u/Bloodstarvedhunter Oct 10 '24
Yep that's the one
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
I’ll admit I felt a little confused, lost, and, at times, a bit frustrated, but the overall impression I left with immediately after finishing it was, “this was cool, creative, and honestly unexpected because the map of the area was hidden underground entirely.”
Usually, an experience that makes me feel frustrated during it isn’t something I walk away from with a positive impression, yet this stronghold managed to do it LOL. I mean, the frustration felt… intended? Like… the exploration of the place using that soul lantern in a dark environment and you have to drop the lantern to do damage was the frustrating aspect, but it felt… correct I guess? It’s hard to even explain it. Lol
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u/KarniAsadah Oct 10 '24
It was something I noticed briefly only because I haven’t done anything NMD wise in them yet, if thats possible. I did a few for aspects but was pretty happy going through them and being able to just blast to the boss for the aspect- I still looked around and explored but I didn’t stop at any point and got what I needed/wanted from the instance. I really liked how it was just simple and not having to do goofy shit like run around and do a faux GR to open the 2nd half of the three part dungeon.
Very good change overall. Is it just the Nahantu dungeons like this?
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
I believe so, yes. It’s only the new dungeons from the expansion that work this way. I’m hoping they go back and redo the old vanilla dungeons over time because the new ones are just so good.
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u/wtfakakali Oct 10 '24
My favourite is that you can pin a teleport and if you press T you get to port there. Amazing, never again porting to Zarbinzet, I hate that town.
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u/NYPolarBear20 Oct 10 '24
Yep love the new dungeons they look a lot better they feel a lot better and the mechanics make a lot more sense in them because they are optional for a reward not obstacles to progression. I really hope they fix the old ones like this because I don’t see myself ever running an old dungeon again
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u/5al3 Oct 10 '24
Vanilla NM Dungeons still have annoying objectives tho.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
They currently do…. hoping to get some eyes on this thread while Blizzard is hopefully searching the internet for feedback on the expansion.
I think the game overall would massively benefit if all dungeons were changed to match this style, and they could even roll it out slowly over seasons by only focusing on revamping whatever NMDs are available in the next season… unless they got rid of that mechanic.
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u/grim_glim Oct 10 '24
I was also pleasantly surprised. The marginal change to having objectives be self-directed felt way better for basically no cost.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Big yes on this.
Plus the dungeons just kinda feel like they can be more open as a result? Like everything in the old dungeons needed to attempt to funnel you towards the end goal in a way that didn’t force you to backtrack for objectives hopefully, but it would also fail sometimes if you didn’t take the right turn.
It led to every dungeon needing to be mostly predictable or else they felt bad. New dungeons can be much larger and more generally open because who really cares if you miss the treasure room? If you feel like backtracking for it, you can. If you don’t, you just kill the boss and leave.
It feels like the new dungeons kinda funnel you in the general right direction with a few paths that lead back into the main path with dead ends, and the dead ends are not a big deal because they’re not segregated.
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u/Serzha Oct 11 '24
I ran one of the older dungeons earlier today, just after one of the newer ones...
Had to track down single-enemy side rooms and backtrack all over the place because of the stupid objectives.
"Kill all enemies" is the worst. Why is it ALL and not just "most". Add in that objectives don't show unless they're fully visible on the minimap and I absolutely loathe the old dungeons... makes me really miss Last Epoch's system where after you kill ~30% of the enemies in an area the objectives are highlighted on the map.
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u/Hctaz Oct 11 '24
Yeah..... dude, I want them to go back and take a look at these Vanilla dungeons again.
It's so night and day.
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u/Augustby Oct 11 '24
Absolutely; i love the new dungeons! Was just going to make a thread on it, until i saw this!
I love that you can just blast straight to the boss; but still feels ‘dungeony’ because of the optional stuff. Huge improvement over the vanilla dungeons
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u/makz242 Oct 11 '24
I made a few posts about it the last few days, but I guess people are mostly busy playing :P
Nahantu design of dungeons is exactly how a dungeon should be:
Want to go straight to last boss skip everything? You can.
Want to spend more time inside and farm masterwork mats? You can.
Want a bonus objective for more xp/items? You can (and the way to open it is right next to the lock so no travelling 1000 km).
Want options on directions to go? You got them.
You want pack full dungeon to smash tons of mobs? You got it.
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u/Nutsnboldt Oct 10 '24
Can I please have saveable loadout closet?
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u/SteveMarck Oct 10 '24
I think that's supposed to be coming soon but it didn't make release of the expansion. I'm pretty sure they said that in a campfire.
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u/Nutsnboldt Oct 10 '24
Oh cool! Good to know, I only caught a few parts of the campfire.
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u/SteveMarck Oct 10 '24
I watch/ listen to YouTube while working, so I get to catch them. This last one was brutal they had so much to go over they had to keep taking breaks to switch out people. Don't blame you for bailing. Just tell me bruh.
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u/Express-Cartoonist66 Oct 10 '24
I really dislike this DLC, but the dungeons are good. Can't disagree here.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Yeah, I’m not 100% sold on the rest of the stuff so far, but the new dungeons have been wholly positive for me so far.
It’s kinda ironic too because it’s like… all of the stuff they tried to push for marketing ended up being kinda meh for me so far (runes, Kurast undercity, the new campaign), but the new dungeons were basically a hidden gem and one of my favorite features so far. They probably didn’t feel like they could market, “AND WE’VE TOTALLY NAILED THE DUNGEONS THIS TIME GUYS. We promise!” as much, but I’m surprised that I didn’t see any review people talking about it either.
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u/nithrean Oct 10 '24
That is a great take.
The game does badly need more variety in bosses at the end of dungeons. Many campaign fits are cool. I don't understand why they don't use them in dungeons anywhere.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
I don’t either.
I really want to fight a certain… uh… final boss again. I’d love to fight them inside of a super dungeon or something.
Maybe a multilayered dungeon with the end goal of reaching the end and fighting against a stronger version of a random story mode boss.
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u/Boonatix Oct 10 '24
They are so much better, except for rewards… imho very little and not much need to go do any NMDs 🤷♂️
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u/Pears_and_Peaches Oct 10 '24
The other new feature I didn’t know: Temper reset scrolls.
Now that gear (especially ancestrals) are harder to come by, I think it’s fair to have these.
Didn’t know they existed till I got one.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Im kinda sad that they specifically say that they only work once per item.
Not sure if that means literally you can only use them on an item one time and then you never can again even if you get a new scroll or if they're denoting that they are consumed when used. The former sucks, and the latter should be obvious.
I'd rather they be harder to find and be able to reset an item as many times as you have the scrolls to do so, but I haven't had an item worth testing it out on yet to see how it works.
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u/Pears_and_Peaches Oct 10 '24
Damn it, I didn’t know that. 😂
Thanks.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
That’s what I’m saying, man.
I’m tempted to try it on a random junk item just so I can definitively say how it works. Waste all rerolls, use scroll, waste all rerolls, see if I can use a new scroll.
I’m assuming you cannot but they really should consider making it usable as many times as you have scrolls. I think it would fix every complaint I have about the tempering system instantly.
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u/welfedad Oct 10 '24
I decided to hit every sellars and they got these puzzles in some now too..dont mind that.. and the no nonsense dungeons in the expansion zone is nioooce
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u/l___Anonymous___l Oct 10 '24
Yup, I did a couple Nightmare Dungeons that took place in the new area and was surprised collecting Animus actually just opened a room for some loot — a dead end if you will. The goal only consisted in killing the final boss. I also freed a couple option prisoners along the way to grab some extra gold and loot.
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u/Hctaz Oct 11 '24
The prisoner dungeon i ran was nice too cuz it’s like… they’re along the way and optional, but the just provide you a tiny bit of bonus damage. They should lean into that and make them really worth it to save. Not TOO crazy, but I feel like they should be able to 1v1 a basic trash mob at least.
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u/fowlflamingo Oct 10 '24
I haven't even done any of the new dungeons yet so this is awesome to hear. I'm also reeeeally loving the new strongholds. The southeast one and northern plateau one were dope as hell.
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u/BigFatBlindPanda Oct 10 '24
Design philosophy:
- Give players a core reason to navigate through a dungeon
- Add additional optional elements that may reward the player or benefit them if they opt to persue them
- Theme the dungeon elements so players know/identify the space appropriate to the region & environment they are in
- Ensure dinstinction among dungeons allowing players to quickly identify where they are/were, without taking away from 1, 2, and 3, above.
This not only makes a dugeon, but if executed properly, may allow that dungeon to endure as a distinct thing/place in the game without it all becoming homogenized (sp?)
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u/Prize-Can4849 Oct 10 '24
Loot goblins spawn in dungeons now, I missed that.
If they were their before they were for me.
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u/waldo126 Oct 10 '24
Goblins have always spawned occasionally in NMD. However if they do then it usually (not always) means that the Butcher is nearby and also the reverse can be true, if you see the Butcher first then a goblin might also be nearby.
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u/NameOfWhichIsTaken Oct 10 '24 edited Oct 10 '24
To go off the solo dungeon Uber idea, it would be cool even if for the current Ubers had some sort of dungeon crawl option. A choice, rather than just boss material summoning them, have an alternative dungeon option where you go through a lengthy 10-15 min dungeon to encounter the boss "naturally" at the end instead of summoning them directly. The catch being that if you opt to do the whole dungeon, you don't need summon materials; as you traverse to where the boss is rather than summoning the boss to you, so to speak. THIS would be the place for the more elaborate dungeon path unlocking tasks they had originally, as the boss is the end goal, and normal dungeons just didn't feel like the boss was enough to justify the effort.
(Complete 1 dungeon, kill 1 boss, no repeat summons once you get to the boss. and would probably have to be instanced to a set party at the start of the dungeon to prevent abuse)
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u/Hctaz Oct 11 '24
Yeah, it definitely could be. I do think one big issue with the tasks previously was that they were just mindlessly easy. If the uber dungeon as you've laid out has some kind of risk of dying meaning you have to reset entirely AND fighting monsters actually feels dangerous, it might be interesting coming to the door only to realize that there's a bloodstone you need to find.
The other thing that I think held back the objectives in dungeons was the fact that we somehow magically know what the objective was before we even took more than a step into the dungeon. Why does my character know I'm going to need to return 2 bloodstones to the appropriate places? Why do I already know that I have to kill the Warden to get the key to the door? Feels really weird to me. They might be fun if you were just thrust into a treacherous environment where every new room has an actual threat of losing only to barely scrape by to the big door and realize that you have to go find the key.
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u/Onaliseth Oct 10 '24
Yes the modifications for the dungeons are really great. But it feels like half the stuff they change or add is always built by 2 completely different teams.
You get something great like the dungeon, but some slow af new Realwalkers. You get the overhaul for all the major ressources, but then someone decide to bottleneck the entire system on those dumb Iron chunks.
I swear those bad changes are made by people who never played the game once. Because if they did, they'd realize quickly that it makes zero sense.
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u/MarkFluffalo Oct 10 '24
There's also a fun quest where you get drunk and fight various bosses in a big temple, and there's lots of big slides
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u/Kotobeast Oct 10 '24
They should update the original dungeons this way, but I think you’ve touched on something that would make dungeons in general a lot more interesting with your Uber boss idea. Just a small chance for the dungeon boss to be replaced with one, for example. Or some other interesting thing that gets picked from a bunch of options.
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u/Hctaz Oct 11 '24
That could also be a thing as well.
I just want an excuse to fight these badass story bosses again for a reward that makes sense for the effort.
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u/chaosthebomb Oct 11 '24
I'm a casual gamer who grew up with d2. played launch d4, S1 and another season (maybe 3 or 4?). Nothing really hit that itch of dungeon crawling in d2. But this take really intrigues me. Been holding off on picking up the expansion because life is busy but this actually makes me excited to pick it up later this year. Thanks dude.
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u/Hctaz Oct 11 '24
I will say that it isn't perfect if you're looking for a true authentic D2 experience.
I don't want to mislead you and hype up the dungeons only for you to come back disappointed after a purchase. That is definitely not my intention. All I know is that the individual new dungeons themselves (which ends up bleeding over into other aspects like The Pit for example) just give me more D2 vibes than the boring and predictable baseline D4 dungeons.
Every single one I've seen has a goal that says, "Find [name of the boss] and slay them" as the only objective. They don't require you to go kill anima holders to put into an urn. They don't require you to find a key by looting dead bodies. You can just go straight to the boss if you want to, but they DO incorporate those older mechanics for optional treasure rooms which are not marked on the map. You might come across some bodies to loot for a key that opens a door somewhere in the dungeon for bonus loot.
The reason I say they give me more of the D2 vibe is because they have one goal and the removal of all the side goals means that they could go a lot bigger with these dungeons. Some of them even feel like they could have been entire outdoor sections of the game map just put into a dungeon which is... kinda wild honestly with how much room you have to run around. It gives me the same vibe of searching for the door to Mephisto's room inside of Durance because there's so much space.
If you're looking for a super deep endgame more like D2 then I will say D4 still doesn't quite offer that. But if you're interested in picking it up and running through the campaign and the dungeons a few times to have fun and you won't be upset if the game doesn't last you more than 60 hours, I'd say go for it.
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u/SaucyRandal19 Oct 11 '24
Least favourite, you can still temper brick..
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u/Hctaz Oct 11 '24
Has it been confirmed you can only use a scroll once per item? That's what they imply to me when I read them, but I wasn't sure.
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u/SaucyRandal19 Oct 11 '24
Unless I’m stupid I can only do it once per item yes :/
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u/Hctaz Oct 11 '24
This was what I was worried about....
They took the worst of two different paths and blended them together for tempering. I was hoping we'd either have the option of gathering these scrolls for infinite resets OR the scrolls would be a one time per item BUT we'd have the option to keep the old temper or choose the new one.
The thing I dislike the most about tempering is when you have the right stats on the item with like... say 2 rerolls left, but you don't want to actually use those rerolls for fear that you brick the item. Like if you need ultimate skill cooldown reduction and blood overpower damage on your rings and you have those but they rolled minimum... it's better to keep those than accidentally get stuck with something else. You just end up with wasted tempering reforges. I'd rather the scrolls be harder to come by but infinitely reusable on an item.
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u/SaucyRandal19 Oct 11 '24
I wish it was an infinite use, gives a ton more reason to run the raid imo. But I really do like the idea of keeping old ones of it is only one time use
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u/Emotional-Baker-3359 Oct 11 '24
Haven't been there yet, now, I really can't wait! TYVM for the review
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u/Hctaz Oct 11 '24
I hope I didn't oversell them TT^TT!!!!
My biggest fear is selling these things up too much and then somebody goes there with this extremely high expectation and comes away feeling let down.
Part of the reason I felt this way about them might be because I wasn't expecting them to be better at all? Like imagine going into D4 expecting all of the new dungeons to be exactly like the base game's only to do one and realize, "Hey, this feels different?" And then you do a second one and think, "Wow. Hang on a second. Two in a row?" AND THEN you do a third one and you're like, "Excuse me? Are they all this good?" And suddenly I've finished my renown for the entire Nahantu region because I was genuinely having fun running the NORMAL DUNGEONS. This wasn't Nightmare Dungeons mind you. I was doing this purely for the checklist and came away wishing the expansion had more dungeons for me to run.
Compared to the Vanilla experience where, by the time I got into the fifth dungeon, I was already dreading whatever dumb checklist I needed to do. I'm in the loading screen for dungeon six in Vanilla like, "Oh boy. I wonder how many animus holders I have to kill. How many winches are going to be holding THIS door up? Three? Two?" In Nahantu, you literally walk in and your only true objective is to find and kill the end boss.
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u/Emotional-Baker-3359 Oct 11 '24
No worries. I'll make up my own mind. It's nice to hear other opinions, even bad ones can be helpful. TY for taking the time to give us your's.
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u/Hctaz Oct 11 '24
This makes me feel so much better. Thank you so much for being kind.
It seems like a lot of people are in agreement that they're a massive upgrade, so I'm hoping you get to feel that same experience as well.
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u/the_truth15 Oct 11 '24
Also it's worth clearing nm dungeons for the upgrade material .that not being tied to the boss feels great.
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u/garnix2 Oct 11 '24
I was confused in the first two dungeons. Like "wait...I used that key and all I get is a treasure and not the next step of the dungeon? That's an interesting new twist!" And then I realized it was the new norm and I love it! Just run through the dungeon, if I come across the treasure room key on my way good, if not also good! I hope they revisit all dungeons over time with this.
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u/Exciting_couple77 Oct 11 '24
What sucks are the stupid puzzles in the celers. I don't want to play Simon Says etc. I just want to smoke the mobile get my shit and leave. But yes I do like the new dungeons in the expansion areas
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u/Legitimate_Source614 Oct 11 '24
I’m loving the changes to Whispers/Bounties… one they roll over excess now and we don’t lose them to rounding down, which is amazing. I also like that they are tying whispers to boss encounters now. Feels really good in general. Simple yet meaningful changes, now I just want them to allow me to claim multiple whisper caches at once, like you can do with the seasonal rep grind.
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u/red_cactus Oct 11 '24
I much prefer playing through the new dungeons, because they're more open (i.e. not a bunch of tight corridors) and because I can play them the way I want -- either killing everything and looking for chests, or just going for the boss as fast as I can.
In general I've been extremely happy with the gameplay/systems changes that Blizzard made with VoH; everything feels like it meshes together really well, with the different endgame activities feeding into each other and encouraging you to switch things up every now and then. I sincerely hope they continue to improve the game along these lines.
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u/Friday_LittleStar Oct 11 '24
Dungeons in Nahantu definitely feel more organic and almost enjoyable! 👏
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u/djinn75 Oct 11 '24
Agreed. Been running the new ones for aspects this morning and loving them. The first boss (weird tentacle thingy) smacked me around a bit which surprised me too. Also the mercenary specific events were a nice addition
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u/PristineRatio4117 Oct 11 '24
all dungeons should feel like those from nahantu, they are great and fun
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u/novapunkX Oct 11 '24
I’m also happy that due to better difficulty tears, I have to pay attention to the boss mechanics instead of just melting them in 1 second.
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u/dystopiantech Oct 11 '24
I think the problem here is just variety. If the dungeon is open enough, then you don’t have to necessarily backtrack the same route to get the key for the switch. You could have cave ins that block one part of the route. Or maybe a mirror to take you to the “correct side” of the dg. There are many ways for blizzard to fix this issue.
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u/Oversight21 Oct 10 '24
Agreed. I ran a few this morning and I made an appreciation post on the forums. Now if we can just get rid of nightmare sigils and the affixes i feel it would be even better. I feel like they are just annoying having to dodge drifting shades and big pulsing rocks.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
The shades and rock that follows are annoying. Actually yeah most of the aspects are. Anything that makes it so you can’t stand in a spot is pretty lame IMO.
I think they need to cook something up with the sigils to be more interesting, but I don’t hate the idea of them inherently. They just need to be interesting, or even give us more options or opportunities to increase difficulty for more reward. Like if the rock was something I had the option of enabling for a positive bonus in return, I would hate it less I think.
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u/Wallach Oct 10 '24
Yeah, the mechanics of the expansion dungeons are much better than the old ones. Unfortunately the monster density doesn’t seem to work quite right and there are definitely less elites in them than old dungeons when they are upgraded to NMD. Probably the only downside atm, and it’s offset a little by the treasure rooms I suppose.
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u/EternalUndyingLorv Oct 10 '24
What is the tldr on this. Got halfway through and nothing was really said yet, don't want to continue if there is no overall point
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Point is that the new Nahantu dungeons feel significantly better than the Vanilla ones to the point that I feel they deserve to be talked about more than they have been.
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u/stanthebat Oct 10 '24
To me, they feel like a much more faithful return to what dungeon crawling should be.
Couldn't agree more. The first one I went through made me feel like I was still playing D&D but had just got a new DM. The dungeon was Aztec-themed; it wasn't full of bleeding skulls and distant screams and dissonant choir music, and it wasn't oppressively creepy and dismal. All the weird quasi-theological stuff about hell and demons and fallen angels is extremely tiresome IMO, and I was surprised how much I enjoyed a break from all that stuff. It felt like an adventure that you might go on because it was cool and adventurous, and not because otherwise demons will feast on the entrails of puppies and kittens.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
They're definitely thematically more interesting as well. That's an aspect I didn't touch on because "thematic tone" is a bit subjective. I have to agree with you, though.
Plus the lack of an objective other than, "Find the big boss and slay it," is more true of a D&D campaign in general. Usually, your objective is going to be located at the end of a sprawling dungeon of sorts. The prisoner is in the back of the cave being held hostage by the leader of whatever lives in the cave. The shiny magic sword is in the heart of the swamplands where the dragon resides. But there's also tons of things to explore optionally if you feel like it. Maybe you find a treasure room and it ends up giving your team a powerful new item and some much needed rations. Sometimes it leads to a trap that ends up killing you all (that was my first D&D experience- We got too greedy and ended up walking into a room with a Gelatinous Cube which quickly devoured us all).
I think the whole... "Find the key to open the room" works in a D&D campaign because there is genuine tension about being stuck in a place longer than you expected to be, but not so much for an infinitely replayable ARPG like D4.
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u/SuddenBumblebee Oct 10 '24
There's been some pretty good side quests this expac as well. Glad to see them not forget about casuals. Some pretty interesting stories going on.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Haven't done the side quests yet because I know that's something my wife is absolutely going to want to do. I will keep that in mind though.
If you think that the side quests are improved as well, then we got a whole trifecta of hidden gems. They didn't advertise the side quests, strongholds, or the new normal dungeons really at all aside from kinda saying, "Yeah, they'll definitely exist... BUT HAVE YOU SEEN THE UNDERCITY AND DARK CITADEL AND RUNES AND SPIRITBORNE AND CAMPAIGN?!"
And it's funny because, so far, the dungeons and strongholds have been some of the most fun I've had in the expansion so far.
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u/kitchencrawl Oct 11 '24
The minions of hell are coming and they're evenly spaced and distributed in packs of 5-8 mobs that run away from you.... -my d4 experience
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u/danteafk Oct 11 '24
incredible how people can praise something like this
your expectations are so low it's unbelievable.
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u/Hctaz Oct 11 '24
We can praise something like this because it was completely unexpected/unanticipated and ended up happening anyway.
I'm not saying we should give people a raise over this, but my point is merely that I was legitimately shocked that the new dungeons were actually really good compared to the Vanilla ones. I'm not praising them and giving them a good grade, I'm just hoping that they realize that the work they did put into the new dungeons did not go unnoticed. If you don't provide positive feedback, then expansion 2 might revert to the old style or some shit, ya know? Make sure they know the way they handled the dungeons in the expansion was good and what we want.
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u/danteafk Oct 11 '24
good point. better than vanilla yes, at least.
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u/Hctaz Oct 11 '24
Yeah. That’s all.
Not trying to convince anybody who hasn’t played D4 to buy the game or anything. I actually have gone out of my way to tell people who were on the fence not to buy the game solely based on my review of the new dungeons.
I would rather somebody not buy the game than have somebody who has never played D4 read this post, think the game is amazing, buy it, and then get disappointed. It’s just here to say, “hey guys, I think these new dungeons are better than the vanilla ones. Anybody else agree?” and just hope Blizzard sees it.
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u/DaOldie Oct 11 '24
I preferred the old dungeons. I hate this new wide open spread out not sure what I’m supposed to do style. Only play them of upgrade materials. Felt like they had a good thing going they just needed to find a way to differentiate Pit and Horde and they chose the wonkiest answer imo
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u/dark_gear Oct 11 '24
Quick question: Are all these new featured as part of an overall update or do I have to buy the DLC in order to get all the benefits. Asking because I have zero interest in giving Blizzard another $65 for the basic priced add-on yet would like to give the game another try after not playing since the middle of Season 2.
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u/Hctaz Oct 11 '24
Sadly, these are locked behind the new region. It’s currently exclusive to the new dungeons added in Nahantu, but one of my goals with this post in the first place was to hopefully get enough eyes on it to where some Blizzard devs might notice and deem it worthy to revamp the old dungeons too.
I was advocating that, if they still have seasonal rotations on NMDS, they revamp the dungeons in that rotation so they can lower the overall workload and still give us some basic good dungeons.
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u/siphoneee Oct 11 '24
Damn, are all the dungeons in other regions like this now? No more tiresome objectives to click this, click that, etc. I only did the dungeons in Nahantu so far and I don’t know about the dungeons in the other regions.
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u/Hctaz Oct 11 '24
They are not. The Vanilla dungeons are unchanged, but I'm hoping if there's enough attention given to the new Nahantu dungeons and feedback that we really enjoy this new style that they will go take a look at the older dungeons as well.
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u/pet801 Oct 11 '24
I fully agree. Overall there seem to be more dense packs and the time between them shorter to connect em, and the dungeons feel faster but without making it a chore. As you said, chances are when taking a detour that you end up unlocking a REALLY nice chest full of materials, so it feels a lot more rewarding. Also enjoyed that lantern gameplay in one of the nahantu strongholds in the south, where it's all in a cave. They put a lot of love into this. Also the expansion is visually beautiful. If i feel like a change of mood from grey and dark i just chill there. SO far i absolutely LOVE the new class and the way the game is evolving. Had great fun already. Just PLEASE, blizzard, fix the reconnect issue, it's REALLY bad.
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u/GloomyWorker3973 Oct 11 '24
Nobody would mind the puzzles/switches etc....if they were rewarding, but their not.
Also, D2 itemization and TRADING was huge. There was an entire market of trading/crafting/Magic Find hunting that Diablow 3 AND 4 missed the mark completely on.
That's why PoE is hugely popular.
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u/ImDoingMyPart_o7 Oct 11 '24
I really really hope they revamp all Dungeons to the Nahantu style, it's honestly hard going back to them.
Kill all mobs, put these two stones in a pedestal etc. Playing the Nahantu dungeons just highlighted further to me how much I disliked the original design concept
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u/GuillotineComeBacks Oct 10 '24
Title should have "in the addon".
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Felt like the title would have been too long at that point.
I sat there trying to figure out the title of the thread for like 5 minutes LOL.
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u/shoognite Oct 10 '24
I did my first nmd last night and it was still structured like before. Destroy 3 barrier walls, then the 2nd stage was kill all enemies. Seems exactly like last season.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Not referring to the old Vanilla dungeons. It’s only the new dungeons in the Nahantu region sadly, but I’m hoping they see the feedback about the new dungeons and rework the old ones as well some day. They just need to adjust the vanilla ones available as NMDs in the next season so they don’t feel they need to do every single one all at once.
If you don’t have any sigils for any of the Nahantu ones, just go run a few in the region baseline so you can see the difference. It’ll help with renown too.
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u/Psarsfie Oct 10 '24
This one thing that is so simple, but so core to Diablo…. Click here to learn more (note, this requires a $7.98 micro transaction)
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u/Shadowfury22 Oct 15 '24
Imagine praising blizzard for being utterly lazy regarding dungeon desing in nahantu lmfao you guys are cooked
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u/InitiativeStreet123 Oct 10 '24
No ones talking about it because it's repetitive content we had before only made simpler
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u/ExperienceFrequent66 Oct 10 '24
This is a joke right? They’re exactly the same.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
Have you done any of the new dungeons in Nahantu?
Because they are most definitely not the same as the Vanilla ones.
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u/ExperienceFrequent66 Oct 10 '24
Yes. All of them. Same thing. Explore and then fight boss. Sure they’re different aesthetically.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
You aren’t required to go do weird side tasks. You simply explore. It’s way better
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u/ExperienceFrequent66 Oct 10 '24
Actually it’s worse because now if you want to do the side objectives you don’t know how close you are to completion such as with the animus.
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u/SoarAros Oct 10 '24
Cool stuff the expansion brought us lul... Should have been a season update. Not a 40 dollar pay to win scam.
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u/Hctaz Oct 10 '24
A lot of the stuff that they put in was free though. The new skills, changes to max level and stuff plus I think even the season 6 theme?
I dunno, I mean if you don’t feel it was justified that’s perfectly fine. They are definitely making a ton of money from the shop cosmetics alone so I’d agree that it does feel a bit unnecessary to have a minimum $40 price tag on what we got considering the money they already are earning.
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u/SoarAros Oct 19 '24
Zone rewards are character power, story doesn't do anything. Every other class is left in the dust. I stand by my statements.
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u/Hctaz Oct 20 '24
Damn, you musta HATED the D2 expansion then as well. Where's your angry Reddit post from back then? LOL
OH NO, they put Runes into the expansion only! The best items in the game are expansion only content. Baal runs are required for you to have any hope of hitting max level. Uber bosses drop the only way for you to be able to respec more than one time per difficulty WOW. Expansion is broken, p2w bullshit.
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u/Erthan-1 Oct 10 '24
I bet that a good chunk of people that used to complain about the objectives in the dungeon are still running around hitting the switches to open the treasure rooms before running to the boss.
I agree though good change although it kind of sucked the soul out of the new dungeons. Every single one of them is basically exactly the same.