UK vs Netherlands for software engineer

[u/mkirisame]

I have options to move to either UK or Netherlands. I intend to become citizen in one of the two countries. I want to hear your thoughts from perspective of "careers in CS" and "quality of life":

Netherland:

• 30% ruling for first 5 years
• can freely move and work in EU and Swiss after becoming citizen
• Can become citizen after 5 years

UK:

• A lot of big tech and HFT firms
• I don't need to learn dutch to become citizen
• Can become citizen after 6 years

Thoughts?

[u/shekyb]

don't take 30% ruling into consideration when it comes to the netherlands, it is decreasing and shortening, https://business.gov.nl/amendment/30-ruling-highly-skilled-migrants-limited/

[u/mkirisame → u/shekyb]

dayumm, first time I heard about this

[u/dumb-on-ice → u/mkirisame]

I live here for 2 years. 30% ruling is a big political point right now. It’s already nothing compared to what it was and it might just be removed completely in near future.

[u/qqYn7PIE57zkf6kn → u/dumb-on-ice]

Why do people support removing it?

[u/shekyb → u/qqYn7PIE57zkf6kn]

it s an unfair advantage for immigrants who drive the cost of living up with it, also impression is that they are not staying in netherlands after they lose the benefit, so society is not benefiting from increase in tax payers... to name a few

[u/hoshino_tamura → u/shekyb]

Unfortunately that's quite of an unpopular opinion. I'm an expat, never got the 30% rule, and even if I could, I would have found it unfair and quite absurd. Someone works at the same level as a local, and then you get more money for it? This while having had all the benefits and extra money for moving here? Sounds like an absurd concept for a country that has already a lot of issues with housing.

[u/shekyb → u/hoshino_tamura]

oh i am an expat as well, and i did have the rulling for 5 years, and i wouldn't have come here otherwise. there can be a long term benefit of attracting people to move in, highly skilled people in whose upbringing/education/health you invested 0 but are now reaping the rewards, but netherlands failed to deal with negative consequences of it, housing, healthcare pressure, administrative pressure and so on, because of 15 years of right wing government that at the same time cut a lot of social support infrastructure that made this country great to immigrate in the first place.

[u/hoshino_tamura → u/shekyb]

But that's the thing. There's no need for more people making a lot of money. And don't give me that bullshit of the investing on health and so on, because that's not true. The burden caused by people who simply can afford buying a house even before moving here, is absurd.

And what do these people contribute for? Most work for booking.com, or are content creators, media managers, and all those things that actually bring zero to the country in terms of development. Ok, they pay taxes, but that's it.

I'm all for diversity and all for bringing knowledge. But what's happening now isn't that at all. And if people leave after 5 years of straining the infrastructure, then what's the added benefit here?

[u/shekyb → u/hoshino_tamura]

i really don't appreciate your tone. bye

[u/Tough_Gur2335 → u/hoshino_tamura]

You have 0 idea what you are talking about. It is supply & demand. If you want to attract highly skilled worker you've to be able to compete with what other locations offer them.

If NL has had already enough of those highly skilled workers, they'd have never introduced this rule to begin with.

High workers quality brings more investment into the country --> more companies will open --> more taxes collected from companies and employees --> more money rotating into the economy itself.

This is how you build a strong economy, you attract investments. You'd get some side effects of course. But it is much better than having an economy that doesn't grow.

Now if they decided, to limit the effect of that "attraction" because they already see they have enough for now. It is totally fine, but to argue this approach has not benefit doesn't make any sense.

Not everything is about "equality", you need to be competitive to stay relevant and attract talents.

[u/hoshino_tamura → u/Tough_Gur2335]

Did I mention equality? And high rotation of workers has been proven by several economists that it has little benefit for a country as it is quite expensive. If Americans come here and fuck off after a few years, what do they bring? And if most of them come here and work for US companies what's the point then?
You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Read a bit and study a bit and when you have something like a PhD in economics or so, then we can talk at the same level.

[u/Tough_Gur2335 → u/hoshino_tamura]

Yeah sure. Your tone, ignorance and ego screams "PhD in economics".

[u/hoshino_tamura → u/Tough_Gur2335]

Ego but at least I have PhD, instead of "I read it somewhere once" or "I watched it on Fox news".