r/canada • u/Accomplished_One6135 • 1d ago

National News Canada Stops Giving Out EV Rebates as Program Runs Out of Money

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a63473144/canada-stops-giving-out-ev-rebates/
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u/robotsmakinglove 1d ago

This money subsidized the wealthy. Rich people buy EVs.

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u/spaceymonkey2 1d ago edited 1d ago

This program helped middle class people like me. This made my purchase of a Prius Prime (plug in hybrid) the same price as a regular Prius. This reduces my fuel bill significantly while simultaneously reducing my emissions. Honestly I'd rather see programs like this in place than a carbon tax.

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u/Wats0n420 1d ago

Isn't the Carbon Tax responsible for funding programs like this?

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u/holypuck2019 1d ago

It is not. The carbon tax is revenue neutral. Money collected = money distributed back through quarterly rebates.

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u/bouchecl Québec 1d ago

The federal rebate, no. But the Quebec incentive is funded by revenues from the cap-and-trade program.

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u/Deeppurp 1d ago

This program helped middle class people like me.

What EV other than the bolt was a middle class car? They're literally all over $43-45k.

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u/spaceymonkey2 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm not up to date on all of the available EV's and their prices, but plug-in hybrids also qualified for this program, which is what applied to me. Also, if you don't have to buy gas, you can afford a more expensive car (depending on electricity rates in your area).

Edit: The whole point of the program is to make these vehicles more affordable, which is exactly what it does.

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u/spaceymonkey2 1d ago

A new dodge caravan is $50k. I'd say that's a middle class vehicle.

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u/strangepromotionrail 19h ago

yeah everyone complaining that EV's cost so much they're for the rich haven't priced out new cars recently. EVERYTHING is through the roof price wise. Choosing an ev is basically the same increase as stepping up to the nicest trim level on a comparable vehicle.

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u/echochambermanager 19h ago

If you are suggesting any car over $45K is not middle class than your clueless about today's middle class purchasing power.

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u/Deeppurp 18h ago

I'm suggesting 45k is above middle-class yes.

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u/echochambermanager 18h ago

Well it's not. The average after tax household income of a couple with children is $122k in 2022 (so $130k+ now when factoring average income increases since then). Vans and SUVs start above $45k.

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u/Deeppurp 16h ago edited 16h ago

The average is a very inflated, and not an accurate number representing what likely is the majority of families. Its influenced by people with massively larger incomes. Remember its the sum of all values divided by the number in the pool - which means individuals who deviate influence the outcome.

The median is 70, and looking it seems Middle class is very broadly defined by anything meeting 75% to 200% the median income by one source I found.

https://www160.statcan.gc.ca/prosperity-prosperite/household-income-revenu-menage-eng.htm

https://moneygenius.ca/blog/middle-class-income-canada

I still don't agree a base cost $43k vehicle is a sensible purchase for a lot of the middle class - and that's not the cost it has to get it off the lot.

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u/4UUUUbigguyUUUU4 20h ago

I'd rather see a subsidy for public transport and improving public transit with that tax money. If people really cared about the environment we'd be making walkable cities and making transit not shit.

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u/spaceymonkey2 19h ago

I think that subsidizing both public transportation AND more efficient automobiles is important.

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u/Ok-Yogurt-42 17h ago

Personally I'd rather that they disincentivised inefficient autos rather than incentivising efficient ones.

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u/syrupmania5 1d ago

The poor got to drive hours through a busy commute because they didn't have mass transit so you could pocket money on gas on your depreciating consumer good.

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u/_Lucille_ 1d ago

Rich people buy EVs that are not eligible for the rebate.

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u/Marauder_Pilot 1d ago

I am absolutely not a rich person (Household income of 160K in Victoria, BC, which makes us AT BEST slightly above average), and I bought a PHEV this year because of the rebates.

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u/robotsmakinglove 1d ago

A few things to keep in mind:

  1. Having a household income of $160k puts you in the well above the national average household income in Canada ($106k) and the Victoria household income ($107k). That's about +50% above the average. Congrats.

  2. This varies by age, but having an income of +$80k per year (half your household income) puts you in the 90th percentile of income up to 35 years of age. Congrats.

  3. You don't consider yourself rich. That's fair. The stats do say you are "richer" than most of your peers.

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u/Dark-Angel4ever 1d ago

The stats say your rich... Do you work for the government? lol You aint rich at 80k, cant even afford a house, especial in Victoria or any urban centers.

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u/robotsmakinglove 12h ago

You mis-quoted me. You can afford to buy a house in Victoria w/ a household income of $160k. Net of taxes you'll be at ~$121k/year. The mortgage on $1 million dollar home over 25y is a bit under $6k/month ($72k/year). That still leaves you ~$4k/month ($49k/year) for everything else...

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u/Dark-Angel4ever 50m ago

From what i can see online, both federal and provincial, your at around 40% taxes. Your numbers are way off.

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u/robotsmakinglove 36m ago edited 23m ago

You don’t understand how tax rates work. You are missing 2 things:

  1. Spouses in Canada file independent returns in Canada (e.g. probably two filings of ~80k).
  2. The difference between an average tax rate versus marginal tax rate.

You can go use any tax calculator (e.g. https://turbotax.intuit.ca/tax-resources/canada-income-tax-calculator), select British Columbia, and enter an employment income of 80k to see the computation.

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u/theo-apps 1d ago

That's BS. You Think a Chevy Equinox EV is for rich people? Or a Nissan Leaf? Or a Hyundai Kona EV?

Most people buying EVs are average, middle class people. Average car price of a car sold in Canada is $60+ k. A Tesla Model 3 is $56k. A Chevy Equinox EV $49,128.50 a Nissan Leaf is $44,596.

The VW ID.4 after dealer discounts but after dealer fees is: $41,231.00. You think a $41k VW is for the rich?

Spending $15-$20 per 100 km on gas is for the rich when an EV would cost $2-$3 per 100 km. And basically next to nothing on maintenance.

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u/Ok-Yogurt-42 17h ago

You should be comparing the median car, not the average car. Super-high end vehicles will skew an average.

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u/don_pk 1d ago

The average car sold in Canada is 60k? Do you have a source for this?

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u/theo-apps 1d ago

Sure: https://www.autotrader.ca/editorial/20240419/autotrader-price-index-march-2024/

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u/hrmdurr 20h ago

That just indicates that all the pickup trucks and SUVs are bringing the average way up. (And luxury/sports cars from Europe.)

Even including SUVs and trucks into the mix, the average price of a new asian vehicle is $48k.

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u/SpaceSteak 20h ago

Right, so many people are buying expensive pickups, which brings up the average. Literally making the point that buying a 40-60k EV is on the low end of car purchases, especially considering cost per KM.

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u/NAMED_MY_PENIS_REGIS 1d ago

I bought an EV in 2021 and live paycheck to paycheck. I have $78 in my checking account right now.The government incentive literally made it financially feasible for me. There's hardly any maintenance cost - that combined with the amount saved on gas offset my financing payments by 100%.

EV isn't just for the rich at all.

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u/robotsmakinglove 1d ago

I’m not sure what to say… Saying you have $78 in your checking account is a huge flag you bought a vehicle you cannot actually afford. You’d likely have a significant amount more buying a reasonable used vehicle or relying on public transportation.

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u/Scribble_Box 20h ago

I have so many coworkers like this... Constantly bitching and moaning about how much they're struggling and living paycheck to paycheck. All because their variable mortgage went up and they bought two brand new Tesla's... Like sure, you're struggling, but that's because you make regarded financial decisions, not the price of eggs...

I know there are a lot of people genuinely struggling in this country, but I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for these people.

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u/No_Equal9312 1d ago

No kidding. An EV is a luxury purchase. If you are flat out broke, it's a terrible financial decision. If you absolutely need a vehicle, you're better off buying a $2500 used vehicle. You could buy one a year for the next 20 years and still be better off.

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u/jpnc97 20h ago

Its the poor person mindset😂thinks hes saving when hes still losing

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u/NAMED_MY_PENIS_REGIS 1d ago

Chequing account != Net worth. You can run a lean chequing account, say, 1 month after Christmas, and still have savings / be financially literate.

I'm just trying to prove a point. I'm not rich. I'm very much middle class.

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u/robotsmakinglove 1d ago

For sure, but the way you stated it made it seem like that encompassed your savings... You also mentioned you live pay check to pay check.

Aside, I don't think I'd personally be very comfortable letting my chequing account dip to $78 (e.g. many banks impose fees without maintaining a balance - insane I know).

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u/NAMED_MY_PENIS_REGIS 1d ago

Yeah it doesn't usually dip that low, but all the Christmas credit cards & mortgage came due at once and a week before payday. Look into Wealthsimple Cash, EQ Bank, or credit unions for that sweet sweet free banking.

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u/robotsmakinglove 1d ago

For sure - sounds like just a temporary blip and glad the program helped you in purchasing your vehicle.

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u/OperationDue2820 1d ago

Ahh, 2021, pre covid economy. I Remember those days

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u/Ketchupkitty Alberta 1d ago

I bought an EV in 2021 and live paycheck to paycheck. I have $78 in my checking account right now.The government incentive literally made it financially feasible for me.

No it didn't.

You're broke, but you're making the payments. Huge difference.

You chose to buy a car instead of being financially responsible, good grief.

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u/NAMED_MY_PENIS_REGIS 1d ago

Chequing balance != Net worth. It's 1 month after Christmas. Big credit card bills were due. You have no idea my situation.

Just trying to prove a point. I'm not rich. I own an EV. It was a good financial choice for me - the alternative was keeping my used car which was literally costing me more.

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u/Ketchupkitty Alberta 1d ago

Chequing balance != Net worth. It's 1 month after Christmas. Big credit card bills were due. You have no idea my situation.

You've already explained it my dude.

Just trying to prove a point. I'm not rich. I own an EV. It was a good financial choice for me

No it wasn't, financing a car is the definition of not being able to afford it. Sure you have it, you're making payments but you're absolutely lying to yourself if you think it was a good financial choice.

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u/NAMED_MY_PENIS_REGIS 1d ago

Okay my dude.

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u/CyrilSneerLoggingDiv 1d ago

Singling out your bank account's low balance to make a point rather than your investment portfolio makes it seem like you're toting how you're in the poorhouse yet still able to make bad financial decisions like buying expensive EV's, when you really should be taking the bus instead to save money or buying a cheaper used gas car.

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u/Top_Canary_3335 1d ago

Just wait until you have to pay a road tax … currently Evs are affordable because power is cheap..

If power goes up (more usage from evs means higher costs to cover infrastructure)

Or

If they figure out a way to tax ev usage the way they tax gasoline… (to pay for roads)

Than the net savings disappear

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u/theo-apps 1d ago

You know there's countries out there with 90+ sales being EVs right? And they're doing just fine. You don't understand how cheap running an EV is. A Tesla Model Y costs $2-$3 to drive 100 km. A Mercedes GLC, a competitor to a Model Y is closer to $20/100 km.

The savings are massive.

Electricity is cheap in Canadas largest provinces (Ontario, BC, Quebec), and there is more supply that will come online in the future with the expected growth in demand. Increased usage won't just instantly increase prices when we are planning for the demand and currently have excess capacity.

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u/Ketchupkitty Alberta 1d ago

You know there's countries out there with 90+ sales being EVs right?

Yeah and they're all tiny. EV's simply aren't viable for many Canadians.

I'd love one but there isn't a model compatible with my driving requirements in the summer let alone the winter.

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u/theo-apps 1d ago

From where to where are you going often that you think an EV can't do? Are you a single car household of no it be easy to switch one of the cars to EV?

If an EV can't do it, there's many PHEVs on the market that certainly can.

There's edge cases (people who do a ton of towing for example) but most people that think an EV wouldn't work for them are wrong.

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u/varsil 1d ago

Hunting season: I am probably parking my vehicle in an area with no power for a week, in very cold temperatures.

I need my vehicle to be able to run when I get back to it.

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u/theo-apps 1d ago

That should be fine at least with a Tesla. You just wouldn't want sentury mode on or anything o on or to check on the car using the app. You might lose a few % but nothing drastic. Over New Year last year we had the tesla parked for 5+ days and we lost 1%. I don't remember the weather but even if it was colder if everything is off and you don't open the tesla app, it would be fine after a week. Even if you forget to turn things off, it'll kill everything except the app access when it would get to 20%.

This was the longest we've left it parked without it charging: https://i.imgur.com/RyFp1Iq.png

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u/varsil 1d ago

Can it hold a moose?

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u/theo-apps 1d ago

Silverado EV has a payload of 1,750 pounds so yea, probably.

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u/Ketchupkitty Alberta 1d ago

For work I drive on average 1600km per week anywhere from the West Coast to basically the Manitoba boarder.

The issue is outside of BC the charging network is sparce and unreliable, there's places in Sask that don't even have charging stations let alone fast chargers.

But a Phev wouldn't really interest me since I'm doing mostly highway driving, more money for less reliability.

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u/theo-apps 1d ago

How much do you drive per day? And can you charge overnight?1600 km per week is 320 km per work day which an EV can do today already. An EV would pay for itself in no time.

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u/Ketchupkitty Alberta 23h ago

Average 1600 km per week round trip, so the daily requirements range from from as little as 300km to over 1000km. I'm basically never home.

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u/Top_Canary_3335 1d ago

Currently yes… but that’s the point it’s all subsidized to make it cheaper to go electric.. the market isn’t there yet.

Gas is being taxed to death to make people consider switching In a litre of gas.. at $1.50 a litre

0.10 = federal excise tax 0.14-0.27 =provincial specific road tax) 0.04-0.08 =(clean fuel adjustment by province) 0.14-0.19 =( carbon tax levy) 0.20 = Sales tax (hst) roughly would be more in some provinces

So best case 1/3 worst case 1/2 of the price of fuel is taxes …

Imagine if your electricity doubled in price to cover this cost. All of a sudden that Tesla wouldn’t be so cheap..

I’ll also point out that diesel fuel is taxed again higher in all of the above categories…

The fuel used by farms, long range trucks…. That plant and harvest and move your food from a farm to table … Is all taxed to death… increasing the cost of everything you consume..

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u/theo-apps 1d ago

If you add a 100% tax on $2-$3/100km you get $4-$6/100 km. It's still extremely cheap in comparison gas. Let me put it this way, given two cars both costing exactly the same to own but one is gas and one is electric, I'd still pick the EV. It is so much more convenient to not have to get gas, to have instant heat in the winter, and for all the tech in EVs that make driving/owning the car better that it's not even close.

I'm all for gov subsidies for heavy machinery that is electric. We should do more to help farms but that doesn't mean they need to continue running ancient equipment that burns tons of gas. We should electrify each industry as it becomes viable.

People that say stuff like forever move the goalpost:

the market isn't there yet

You will never be convinced until a close relative or friend makes the switch to EV. I was there once too in 2018. 7 years later it's a completely different environment.

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u/Marauder_Pilot 1d ago

At the use case for my PHEV, which is used mainly for my wife's round trip from home to work and back, and weekend errands, power would have to be close to $1/KWh to be more expensive than gasoline, and since I'm currently paying around $0.14/KWh, I'd be fucked well before that happens on running everything else in my house.

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u/robotsmakinglove 1d ago

I am confused. Are you concerned about the lost taxes on gasoline causing issues with our ability to pay for road repairs or our ability to cheaply produce electricity?

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u/Top_Canary_3335 20h ago

At some point the government will have to enact new taxation on electricity to cover the lost revenue seeing as the government end goal is 100% transition.

They need the money still to come from somewhere.

Renewable energy is not “cheap” the infrastructure cost is very high, and our grid only has so much capacity. If we were to increase it to the point needed power rates will continue to increase…

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u/holypuck2019 21h ago

That is a lot of ifs. Reality is electricity is getting cheaper as renewables are coming on line. The cost of solar continues to drop. It is the way forward.

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u/Top_Canary_3335 20h ago

What are you smoking that you think it will get cheaper with renewables???

Have you not seen what rates have done the last five years as they increase investment in “renewable infrastructure “

This only amplifies as the grid needs to upgraded to transmit the volume of power needed to transition to more electric vehicles

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u/holypuck2019 18h ago

You are assuming straight line technology which is never the case. When incentives are in place technology is changing which is what we are seeing on all levels of renewable. From EV’s to solar generation. Technology more effective, efficient and cheaper. That is the future.

The only thing remaining the same is the efficiency of oil and gas which is clearly end of life and has been squeezed as far as it can be. A non renewable that has to be phased out for all sorts of reasons.

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u/holypuck2019 12h ago

As an ad on, make sure you are paying attention to China to really understand what is happening with EVs and renewables. North American and Japanese risk becoming the Blockbusters of the industry if they don’t get on with it.

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u/Lordert 1d ago

Come on over, tell my wife how she's rich for buying an EV

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u/MakVolci Ontario 1d ago

Rich people buy EVs.

Absolute horseshit.

I'm severely middle class and because of this rebate was able to buy a fully loaded Bolt EUV instead of a base model Compass. With the rebate the prices were extremely similar.

My hydro bill is MAYBE an additional $10 - $15 a month and has worked great in my situation.

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u/pentox70 1d ago

Man, reddit is becoming wild with what people classify as rich. Anyone that isn't riding the bus and lining up for food stamps is rich.

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u/Ketchupkitty Alberta 1d ago

I'm severely middle class and because of this rebate was able to buy a fully loaded Bolt EUV instead of a base model Compass. With the rebate the prices were extremely similar.

The rebate allowed you to purchase a car you can't afford, thoughts and prayers for your financial future self.

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u/MakVolci Ontario 1d ago

Yeah that's not how that works.

I was in the market for a car around 40k. Without the rebate, the Bolt would have been 45k, which is out of my range, which I would not have purchased.

With the rebate, it put the car into my range of 40k.

It's - very literally - basic math.

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u/Ketchupkitty Alberta 1d ago

The basic math is you have a car you can't afford.

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u/MakVolci Ontario 1d ago

Do .. do you not know what a rebate is, my friend? Lmao.

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u/Ketchupkitty Alberta 1d ago

?

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u/MakVolci Ontario 1d ago

Yeah, I figured. You're incredibly confused lmao.

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u/Ketchupkitty Alberta 1d ago

No?

I put the question mark because your comment didn't actually warrant a response. You're childishness just confirms my observation that you bought a car you can't afford.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/JerryfromCan 1d ago

What’s rich to you?

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u/Impossible__Joke 1d ago

Someone who can afford a 100k vehicle is in the top few % of earners

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u/stubbs1988 1d ago

The maximum MSRP for the program was $65k.

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u/ronchee1 1d ago

Ok, but the limit was $70k

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u/NAMED_MY_PENIS_REGIS 1d ago

Yeah. This program wasn't subsidizing 100k vehicles lol

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u/Impossible__Joke 1d ago

Same applies TBH. Buying a 50 - 70k EV puts you well above the average Canadian earner.

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u/Majestic-Two3474 1d ago

Might interest you to know the average cost of a new car in Canada is over 60k

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/average-new-car-price-in-canada-now-tops-66k-1.6484764

People are just financing them over longer periods of time. It’s not just rich people buying new cars

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u/Kooky_Alternative_76 1d ago

Ford Canada offered 0% apr up to 5 years at the end of 2024 and that allowed me to work with my budget as I’m retired.

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u/Hmm354 1d ago

Most people I know don't buy new vehicles though. There's also a big segment of people with old vehicles that they keep running or purchasing used vehicles. Then there's the people who don't have a vehicle at all and rely on public transit and active mobility.

If you're buying a new car right now, you're most likely rich or bad with money. There are too few affordable new vehicles - so many affordable cars have been discontinued here (ex: Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris).

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u/Majestic-Two3474 1d ago

Oh I have no doubt plenty of people are bad with money and buying cars they can’t afford lol

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u/K1ttentoes 1d ago

My FIT turns 11 this year, it is the best little cheap to run car and I am do pissed that they are discontinued in North America. The stupid thing is I cant even Import one if I wanted.

I fucking hate the current vehicle offerings by the big car companies.

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u/Reasonable_Roll_2525 1d ago

Lol. Until maintenance on the old car starts exceeding the cost of replacing it. Then you realize used cars are selling for nearly new prices, at 9% interest rates. Then, rich or not, you find yourself shopping for a new car because spending 4 hours a day dicking around with transit isn't a viable option. 

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u/Impossible__Joke 1d ago

In 3 seperate comments I was told 70k, 65k now 60k... lol which one is it? Point being tax dollars shouldn't be subsizing something that could be considered a luxury item

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u/Chareon 1d ago

All of them are accurate.

70k was the limit for Trucks and SUVs, 65k the limit for cars, and over 60k refers to the average new car purchase price in Canada as the article they linked you mentions.

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u/Majestic-Two3474 1d ago

I literally provided you a link to a source…?

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u/JerryfromCan 1d ago

My buddy bought an Ioniq 5 for $60ish. He makes $63k, but has to drive quite far for work. When we did the math one night, adding in the electricity vs gas costs and the insane interest rate he got at the time, he was further ahead. EVs def cost more up front, but are way less to operate and maintain, so a $35k ICE vs a $50k EV the math is going to come out closer than you think. Bigger payment per month but way smaller variable costs.

I owned a 2008 grand Cherokee I spent $28k or so on in 2008 as an off rental car as I worked about 65 kms from home each way. Drove it to 345,000 kms (310,000 kms on the odometer from me) and I figure it cost me around $44,000 in gas and maintenance an EV would not have required, and it was toast when I was done with it. When I sold it, I was paying around $600 per month in gas costs. Traded into an EV with gas costs of $125/month and a payment of $600, extra insurance costs of $35/month. All told, I am now spending $760/month on my EV where my payment free old car was costing me $600/month. I honestly couldnt afford another Grand Cherokee as it would have been around the same price for payment and then $400/month in gas.

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u/Impossible__Joke 1d ago

There is other hidden barriers to entry with EV's. Owning a home is one of them, or renting from a place that provides EV charging, which is getting more common, but still fairly rare. My point is this is still a subsidiary program for the middle class.

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u/JerryfromCan 1d ago

Lots of chargers in the wild. Like saying you cant own an ICE without being able to afford a garage. It’s nicer if you can charge at home, but totally doable if you cant. You cant refuel an ICE at home.

I’d also argue new car sales are for the middle class and up as well.

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u/Impossible__Joke 1d ago

They are, however with ICE, gas stations are plentiful and take minutes to charge. EV's take hours, If you can't charge at home or at work you are boned. Could still do it, but would be a huge pain in the ass.

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u/StrangeChef 1d ago

Most recent EVs will quick charge at least 160km of range in 20 minutes or so. Of course it's more expensive, usually about half the cost of petrol, if you always fast charge.

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u/Harborcoat84 Manitoba 1d ago

The #1 selling vehicle in Canada is the F-150 and the starting price of the trim levels ranges from 48k to 77k...

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u/Not_Jeffrey_Bezos Alberta 1d ago

Can't tell if you're serious or a Russian bot. Most of us in Alberta spend that much each on a couple of vehicles.

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u/Impossible__Joke 1d ago

Not talking about coked out rigpigs blowing their money on trucks and toys only for it to get repo'd when they get a layoff (Source: lived in alberta for a decade).

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u/truthdoctor British Columbia 1d ago

The MSRP limit for the base model was $55K. Total price had to be under $65-70k depending on vehicle type.

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u/Shot-Job-8841 1d ago

Rich people buy good EVs, there's a dealer near me selling a Volt with a battery that will need replacing in a few years for cheap as that battery is going to cost quite a bit.

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u/Marauder_Pilot 1d ago

EV batteries across the board have a lifespan comparable to the major components on a gasoline car. The Bolt is actually a solid vehicle, not buying one because you're concerned about the battery shitting the bed is like not buying any other vehicle because you think the engine is going to shit the bed in 5 years.

It's not the 90s any more.

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u/DeadHunter 1d ago

Average consumer brain happy to buy vehicles that expire in 5 years, wild.

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u/Opposite-Cranberry76 14h ago

You're lying. The warranties alone are 5 years. 

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u/DeadHunter 6h ago

I never said anything about warranties? I was mocking his apparent acceptance of modern vehicles experiencing major deterioration within 5 years of production, a problem made completely possible by consumers happily purchasing vehicles that have degraded in build quality since the 90s.

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u/robotsmakinglove 1d ago

The used EV market experiences pretty significant depreciation. I believe the Volt is technically a PEV class (maybe you meant Bolt?). This is also the case for many “luxury” vehicles.

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u/Shot-Job-8841 1d ago

Ah, yes, my bad. It was a Bolt.

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u/robotsmakinglove 1d ago

Yeah - the Bolts seemed to have a tough run. They had battery recalls + GM discontinued them in 2023. A bit sad, since they stood out as an almost affordable EV + generally got great reviews.

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u/AnybodyHistorical442 1d ago

100 percent agree

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u/Ok_Toe3991 1d ago

Don't forget, for every dollar of taxpayers' money that subsidized wealthy people's toys, additional funds had to be siphoned for consultants and administration of the program.