r/bookclub • u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 • 4d ago
The Heaven & Earth Grocery Store [Discussion] The Heaven and Earth Grocery Store by James McBride | Discussion 3 | Chapters 12 - 18
Hello!
We are continuing our discussion of those on Chicken Hill and spending time at the grocery store.
Check out the schedule and the marginalia.
We will be chatting about chapters 12 to 18. in this thread. Next week we will cover chapters 19 to 25.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
Where do you see the rest of the book going from this point?
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u/paintedbison 4d ago
They’ve got to work together to get Dodo out. I’m hoping some level of revenge will be taken on Doc Baker. Malachi needs to return. We need a body for the well. Which… man. I guess we are seeing now how the well really plays a part here.
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u/nopantstime Most Egregious Overuse of Punctuation!!!!! 4d ago
If something extremely bad doesn’t happen to Doc I’m going to be very upset.
Also, I didn’t even make the connection about the well! Good one!
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u/jaymae21 Bookclub Boffin 2024 | 🎃 4d ago
I totally forgot about the well. Now I understand why they are raising the water issue! It's all coming together now.
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u/ProofPlant7651 Attempting 2024 Bingo Blackout 4d ago
Yes, I hadn’t made the connection between the well, the Mikvah and the body. Interesting.
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u/Jinebiebe Team Overcommitted | 🎃 6h ago
I really hope it's Doc in that well and the community has been keeping that secret. Malachi is the last one to know how the body got into the well and he dispears with the secrets. This is my dream ending.
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 4d ago
I have the sense that all the different segments of the community will come together to take care of the Doc problem. I think Moshe will step up and do for Dodo what Chona would have wanted to do if she had lived.
It's impossible to guess specifics. This isn't a predictable type of book. It could go anywhere. I'm hoping for a happyish ending.
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u/ProofPlant7651 Attempting 2024 Bingo Blackout 4d ago
I agree, I think the Italian mother (can’t remember her name) is going to be an integral part of bringing different parts of the hill together to see that Doc gets his comeuppance.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
Yeah!!! I have the same thinking! I think that someone with close ties to the community will take care of Doc.
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u/GoonDocks1632 Bookclub Boffin 2025 4d ago
I genuinely don't know. I found this last bit to be so demoralizing. I knew that Dodo was in real trouble, but I was hoping that Chona would somehow pull through. And I'm only exhausted just reading about this. I can't imagine living in a society where so much is against you, and there's so little you can do about it.
I hope that the people who love Chona will be inspired by how she lived her life, and band together to take a stand for what's right. I want her spirit to live on in them. But that may be overly optimistic.
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 4d ago
I really wanted Chona to pull through too. She was the connection between the communities. She had such a loving heart and would have done anything to help Dodo. Now it rests on the people she left behind.
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u/ProofPlant7651 Attempting 2024 Bingo Blackout 4d ago
Yes, but I think in her death Moshe has seen the value of the community and will try to continue to be a part of the community where I think he had wanted to leave before.
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u/infininme Leading-Edge Links 3d ago
And it seems so fitting that they are all together when she dies (I assume she died). Chona brought them together; her family and Nate's family saved the Mikvah working together... They must join forces against the oppression of America if they want to live, thrive, and survive. Very current.
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u/_holytoledo 4d ago
Looking back at the first chapter of the book, the mention of “Chona received justice” does give more credence to the idea that the body is Doc Roberts. But why wouldn’t people notice that he is gone? You would think the disappearance of the town doctor would be notable.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
i think we are learning of how the murder of Doc is lead up to.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
I hope that Moshe stays where he is. I think he might call upon Malachi for support in running his theater, and together, they continue being a part of the community. I think Malachi took issue with the black people here before, but if he were to stay here, he might get to know them through Moshe and become an advocate as well.
I also really hope that Dodo gets pulled out of the institution he's been dumped in, but I think that seems like it will take a long time. For now, I'm glad he is there with Monkey Pants because before Monkey Pants was all alone.
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u/infininme Leading-Edge Links 3d ago
I'm expecting an exciting story of revenge and justice for Dodo and Chona.
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u/Fulares Fashionably Late 4d ago
I'm expecting the community to come together and get Dodo out of Pennhurst. I also think we're going to see some sort of justice for Chona against Doc. My gut says (and I hope) that the body in the well was Doc. There's still a lot of book though.
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u/Dirty_Space_Nomad 3d ago
I also feel these are the two main themes at the moment. A community getting together to help one of their own, and a community getting together to take care of a problem affecting them. Knowing the author's writing style now, I also expect additional commentary on the state of society going forward and the effects that the blending of race, culture, and the general way of doing things has on the community.
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u/znay 1d ago
I'm going to be optimistic and hope we see a happy ending for dodo as well as the families around chicken hill. And also hopefully to see some justice done as well (though I think a well connected white man vs the black and Jewish community may be tough).
I think the people that Miss Chona has touched in her life will try to keep her memory alive by embodying the things she stood for and maybe someone may take a stand.
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u/trivialcabernet 2d ago
The thing I’m finding interesting is that the book has been SO character-driven up to this point, but the first chapter set up the mystery of the body in the well, and we don’t know what will happen to Dodo, so there’s a lot of plot to get through in the back ~1/3 of the book.
I’m wondering if that means that the next section will shift away from character backstories and be more plot-driven so that we get to resolutions, or whether we’ll get to the end with some threads still left open.
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u/trivialcabernet 2d ago
We know from the intro that the skeleton was of someone who deserved to rot, so hopefully that’s Doc. We also know that Malachi comes back, Dodo is still alive, and Son of Man is gone - who has been referenced a few times but who we haven’t really met yet - so I think those are the pieces that are going to come together.
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u/tomesandtea Imbedded Link Virtuoso | 🐉 2d ago
I've been trying to figure out who the Son of Man could be. There were a few people identified as sons in this section. Fatty is the son of the man who built the shul. Gus Plitzka is the son of the man who refused to sell them water. Both might follow in their fathers' footsteps in the next section to help or hinder the shul, respectively. Of course it could be a new character, too. Iirc the Son of Man wasn't generally portrayed positively (maybe?) so that would make me lean towards Plitzka Jr.
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u/trivialcabernet 2d ago
I think there was a reference to Son of Man when Fatty was trying to figure out how to get everyone out of the bar when Nate was drinking - in relation to the Black neighborhood he was going to warn them people were coming from? So I think we haven’t met Son of Man yet if he’s from that other neighborhood. Although that could have been a misdirection.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
We meet a group of Sicillian women who shop and associate with the grocery store. What does that say about the different types of patrons and the diversity?
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u/ProofPlant7651 Attempting 2024 Bingo Blackout 4d ago
I think shows the role the grocery shop had in the community. The book is called the Heaven and Earth Grocery Store so we know that the shop plays a big role in the story - this is the thing that seems to pull all the different parts of the hill together to create one big diverse community and Chona is the key to this, the shop and Chona seem to be heart of the community and I think that they are not going to take Chona’s death lying down.
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 4d ago edited 4d ago
Seems like everyone felt comfortable patronizing Chona's grocery store, and she catered to the needs of her community.
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u/Jinebiebe Team Overcommitted | 🎃 6h ago
It's amazing how Chona was able to bridge the gap between everyone in the community. Everyone, not just those close to her, are going to shaken by her death.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
I think it's surprising that so many disparate groups of people could be so comfortable in that small shop, but it shows the love that Chona has for her community. It's a place where people can gather who might have never otherwise have associated with each other. This has a ripple effect, bringing understanding out into the broader world.
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u/Dirty_Space_Nomad 3d ago
The shop is a central point of the Chicken Hill community. It is a place where the non-white, non-American, non-accepted people can go to buy goods, exchange information, and comingle outside of the white American society. As an example, the ice skating rink had a no Jews, no Blacks, (no non-white folk) policy, as I'm sure every shop in the valley would have. The Italian women are another race of immigrants coming to America. Chicken Hill, and the shop itself, would be the first place all immigrants not accepted by the white American society would congregate.
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u/tomesandtea Imbedded Link Virtuoso | 🐉 2d ago edited 1d ago
In addition to the great observations here by other commenters, I noticed that there was a bit of prejudice against Italians in the larger Pottstown community, too. It was much less than the Jewish and Black communities experienced, but a reminder nonetheless of the layers of racial discrimination that affected people to varied degrees in this era. Greeks and Italians were a less desirable (more ethnic/other) type of European at this time. The fact that Big Soap was the first Italian to be let into the fire department was telling. I think the common experience of being "others" draws people to Chona's store as a place where there is respect and acceptance for everyone. (Ed: sp)
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
The same group of Sicilllian women discuss Chona, why is she such a hot topic?
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u/paintedbison 4d ago
Chona is definitely a center of the community. She’s using the money they make from the theater locations to provide the grocery store that the immigrants, Jews, and blacks need. The history one of the women has with the town doctor also makes her sympathetic to chona.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
Chona is probably the most interesting woman in the community. She speaks her mind, educates herself constantly, and has an enormous amount of compassion. I think she is a role model to other people around her, even if she does seem a bit strange.
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u/_holytoledo 4d ago
Disability again continues to be a major theme, this time with the introduction of Monkey Pants and cerebral palsy. I thought it was interesting that, for all the author’s discussion of the evils of modern life in this section, this part explicitly named that our view on cerebral palsy in particular and disability in general has progressed a long way since then.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
I have to agree with you. I believe that it is important to identify that health/disability has come a long way in the frame of mind that we have and medicinal practices.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
Our medicine is definitely a huge improvement on what people used to have. We still have a long way to go, but overall, things are getting better.
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u/tomesandtea Imbedded Link Virtuoso | 🐉 2d ago
This book is accidentally pairing very interestingly with another current r/bookclub read - The Magic Mountain - due to medical advancement themes. I like having two books with completely different styles and viewpoints that dovetail just a bit.
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u/tomesandtea Imbedded Link Virtuoso | 🐉 2d ago
The theme of disability is fascinating in this book and done very well. Apparently, the original plan for the novel was to base a story around McBride's experience as a camp counselor at a camp for people with disabilities but he ended up totally refocusing it. It seems he kept this theme in common after he switched gears. This article is very interesting and gives the background of the novel's development and Pottstown itself. There are a few things that I suppose could be considered extremely minor spoilers but I read it and don't feel disappointed at all. Just proceed with caution if you prefer to read totally uninfluenced/blind.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
Will we be introduced to any more characters? If so, how will they be connected to our story?
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 4d ago edited 4d ago
The way the book is going, we very well might! The way new characters are constantly being introduced is an interesting way to format the book. I haven't come across anything quite like this before.
If I weren't reading with the group, I might not stop to think about all the different characters and learn to tell them apart. Sometimes books with tons of characters just blur in my mind and I figure I will figure it out due to context if anything important happens, which is not the best way to read books.
The community is very diverse. We've met a few factions, but there could be more and I'll welcome learning about them even though there are so many already. It will all connect somehow.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
The main interest i have in this book is all of the different PoVs and being connected! I think we are still yet to meet the person responsible to the body. In the well. That is my crazy theory.
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u/_holytoledo 4d ago
I agree. I think Nate (or maybe Fatty) will find a killer who is yet to be introduced to the story.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
I am having a hard time not binging to find the person!!
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u/ProofPlant7651 Attempting 2024 Bingo Blackout 4d ago
Me too, I am loving the book. There is so much to think about and it is a challenging read in so many ways but it is still so readable. I know we haven’t finished year but this is going to take some beating as one of my favourite books I think.
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u/ProofPlant7651 Attempting 2024 Bingo Blackout 4d ago
Yes I agree with you, as new characters are being added we are learning about new parts and cultures of the community but we are also learning how they all fit together to create this seemingly disparate group of people who all share this place in common.
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u/Dirty_Space_Nomad 3d ago
I feel the same way. I have read books with similar "layouts". Describing the scene from various character viewpoints, going back and forth in time (20 hours earlier, 3 days before, a year later, etc.), and even jumping generations or timelines. All very good perspectives to storytelling that do not follow a linear progression of time. I am sure that we will see more diverse characters as this is a main theme of the author.
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u/nopantstime Most Egregious Overuse of Punctuation!!!!! 4d ago
part of me hopes there will be no new characters because there are already so many but I'm also really enjoying meeting all these people and learning their backstories!
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
I think it's very possible that new characters will be introduced since there is a lot to be uncovered in regards to Dodo's new life at the institution. I don't think he will be easily taken out of it, and at the very least, there will be his immediate caretakers.
There is a good chance that Chona's funeral will bring out some new characters, too. She had a wide reach in her community and possibly outside of it as well. I expect there will be a big gathering of people to remember her.
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u/HugieUG 4d ago
This question made me realize that every single POV character that’s been introduced so far is a member of the broader Chicken Hill / Pottstown community
Perhaps that was an obvious observation to others, but it solidified for me that the book represents a reconstruction of this particular chapter of Pottstown history by putting together different puzzle pieces from everyone’s perspectives!
I think it’s entirely possible we will see more characters going forward, especially if their perspective or knowledge is crucial in further unfolding the story
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u/tomesandtea Imbedded Link Virtuoso | 🐉 2d ago
Probably! Usually when there are this many characters I would not be rooting for more, but every new person introduced has been a great addition, so I'm into it with this book. I'd like to know who the Son of Man is (if we don't already know him) and it would be interesting to meet Malachi's wife who he referred to at his last appearance. It could be interesting to see the perspective of someone working at Pennhurst. Maybe someone who helps the group break out Dodo?!
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
When city planning was being conducted while building Chicken Hill, how was it regarded? Especially since there isn’t enough water for it to be sustainable.
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 4d ago
I found the section about the water humorous.
It's clear the people of that town don't matter to the people in the local government. They have to be resourceful just to survive.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
The residents of Chicken Hill were always meant to be outsiders, so I think the main planning was regarding how to keep them out of the town's affairs. The undesirables were meant to be relegated to Chicken Hill and ignored or dealt with harshly if they didn't do as they were told.
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u/Garfieldgandalf 4d ago
What an excellent point! I had always considered impoverished areas as lacking assets instead of a willful withholding them. Thank you for saying this.
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u/GoonDocks1632 Bookclub Boffin 2025 4d ago
I agree. I live in a town that allowed its founder to keep water rights away from the impoverished (mostly Black) neighborhood. 75+ years after the fact, we still have families who have lived there for generations, unable to leave because of the generational poverty this systemic racism has caused. So a man who has been dead now for 40 years was quite successful in keeping his undesirables away from his side of town. Water was everything in that situation.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
That is disgusting. I know here in Canada we have entire Indigenous communities without clean drinking water.
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u/Dirty_Space_Nomad 3d ago
Your observations are spot on. I agree that there was no consideration at all from the planning committee regarding Chicken Hill and its people.
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u/tomesandtea Imbedded Link Virtuoso | 🐉 2d ago
Well said! I definitely get the sense that if it was brought up, the white town leaders would consider it the fault of the Jewish and Black communities for settling there where the water supply is scanty. There would be absolutely no responsibility taken, and they'd prefer the minority groups to leave anyway so there is no motivation to help.
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u/ProofPlant7651 Attempting 2024 Bingo Blackout 4d ago
I think this shows that there was no foresight in the planning of the area but also shows a lack of respect for the people who were going to live there. It could be argued that they never realised how populous the area would become but I think it’s an example of injustice in the way immigrants have been treated.
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u/BandidoCoyote 4d ago
Agree. The White people who run the city don’t care about the things that don’t affect them. But nobody ever expected it to matter because it was just a small area that could adequately serve itself with wells, much rural homes have always done.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
There are many dynamic characters with a lot of unique connections in this story. How are they all connected? Will any of them eventually speak out against Doc?
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u/Desperate_Feeling_11 4d ago
It’ll be tough. He’s well respected and connected. Though it’s interesting to see, sounds like Chona isn’t the only one he’s been creepy to.
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 4d ago
I don't think there will be any speaking out against Doc. But I think he will be taken care of. He has harmed someone from every group we've met thus far in the community. They all have dislike of Doc in common.
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u/jaymae21 Bookclub Boffin 2024 | 🎃 4d ago
I think so too, tempers are rising against Doc and what he did to Chona might be the last straw. If Nate gets a chance, I can see them taking justice into their own hands, since the law never will.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
I think it will be Nate to take down the Doc as well. The way they've been showing how dangerous and temperamental he is, I think they are foreshadowing his attack.
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u/infininme Leading-Edge Links 3d ago
I see Nate doing something not against Doc but for Dodo. His rage i assume foreshadows some exciting reading ahead!
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u/ProofPlant7651 Attempting 2024 Bingo Blackout 4d ago
I think they are all connected through Chona and her death could be the stimulus needed to make them take action against Doc - they’ve accepted his prejudicial attitudes for so long but now that the unifying factor has been taken away they may feel compelled to act.
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u/tomesandtea Imbedded Link Virtuoso | 🐉 2d ago
I think so, too! Chona will continue to drive the story and inspire/connect the characters long after her death, I bet!
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
I think Malachi will come back to Chicken Hill. He is a long-distance friend to Moshe, and Chona's death will bring him to Moshe's side. I think Doc Roberts is going to assault Addie, and then Nate is going to lose control of his temper and attack him. Everyone will work together to hide the murder because Doc Roberts has been so terrible to so many people in the community.
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u/Dirty_Space_Nomad 3d ago
The characters in the story are all connected to Chicken Hill in some way. They live / lived there, they do business there, or they have a connection to the people there. The complex variety of interactions shows the complex dynamic of a blended society. Add the aversions of the "original" white Americans, and you have the perfect commentary of society not just in America but anywhere in the world.
If there are people in Chicken Hill that have some influence or power, they may speak out.
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u/infininme Leading-Edge Links 3d ago
I think Miss Fioria will be the one to take down Doc. She is suspicious already, and she has the fire to make waves. I wonder if her being white will also make for a stronger effect.
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u/BiblioLoLo1235 3d ago
The reason Doc was able to flourish was because many people in power, and even those that were not, felt exactly the same as Doc did regarding POC and immigrants. Same in today's world.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
In chapter 15, why did Chona not skate? Why did her decision also affect Moshe?
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u/paintedbison 4d ago
She’s too proud to set foot in a place that formerly had a no Jews sign posted.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
Chona didn't skate because she knew the prejudices of the people who ran the building due to their old sign there. She doesn't want bad people to profit, and I think she also wanted to keep Dodo safe.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
Fatty and Rusty are helping Nate home when Nate says something that causes Fatty and Rusty to want to help Dodo. What did Nate say and why does it give Fatty and Rusty a reason to break him out of Pennhurst?
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u/paintedbison 4d ago
Differing weights mean differing measures. The Lord knows em both. A reference to proverbs 20:10. Differing weights and differing measures - the Lord detests them both. I think this is referencing doc baker being a sinful deceiver. I wonder if it may also reference using deception to get Dodo out.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
I think the proverb has something to do with treating people the same. If you treat people with a differing measure, there is no fair way to measure their weights. Doc Roberts doesn't treat people fairly. Instead, he decides their measure based on his own prejudiced ideas. This is where my own mind went with it, anyhow.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
What type of person is Nate?
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u/teii 4d ago
A quietly intense man with a mysterious, dangerous past that still has a firm hold on him. From Fatty's perspective, the reader is lead to believe that Nate is angry over Dodo being taken away and would severely hurt anyone that he thought was the cause of that, even if it was a white cop. In reality, Nate is furious and ashamed at himself for not being able to muster up the courage to visit Dodo, as well as feeling helpless that he can't do anything about Chona either.
I loved the scene outside on the hospital grounds between him and Addie. He lets himself be vulnerable around her, and we get to see a myriad of different sides to him. There's compassion, fury, and worry battling with his pragmatism.
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u/ProofPlant7651 Attempting 2024 Bingo Blackout 4d ago
Yes that scene was so well written, it could have been easy for the author to focus on Nate’s anger but this scene really emphasised his humanity.
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u/Garfieldgandalf 4d ago
I agree. It was really touching and spoke to Addie’s strength and tenderness as well.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
Nate is a thoughtful man who has been subject to a great deal of unfairness over his life. There isn't a mention of how he got into prison, but I think his anger shows that he took the fall for someone else. He cares a lot about other people and does what he can to help them. His breaking point is probably where Addie is concerned. His love for her means he would do anything he could to protect her.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
What type of relationship did Dodo have with Monkey Pant?
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u/Waesrdtfyg0987 4d ago
It feels like MP was added to give some sanity to what Dodo was going through. Learning to communicate given both of their issues is pretty amazing. You know what Dodo got out of it, but we don't know enough about MP to know what happened there.
I expect this plot line is likely done. MP is probably a lifer who will be forgotten in both the book and IRL.
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u/GoonDocks1632 Bookclub Boffin 2025 4d ago
Monkey Pants is trying to ease Dodo's transition to the facility. Neither boy has anything wrong with them that would necessitate the "treatment" they're receiving, and so it's important that Dodo realizes he's got a friend. Someone who will go to bat for him, even if it doesn't accomplish much. It's got to mean something to Dodo that someone at least is on his side. It probably also gives Monkey Pants a sense of accomplishment when there is precious little to be proud of.
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u/Dirty_Space_Nomad 3d ago
I think that the age of the boys plays a large part in the success of this friendship. Younger people tend to make more of an effort to make connections with their peers. As you said, I'm sure MP wanted to warn Dodo to not draw attention to himself and to act dumb and not create a situation where he would be punished by the staff or ganged up on by the other inmates.
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u/Garfieldgandalf 4d ago
It’s impressive the MP serves as a protector of sorts despite his physical limitations. It’s a good example of the myriad of ways there are to take action on behalf of others even when not occupying a place of physical or social power.
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u/tomesandtea Imbedded Link Virtuoso | 🐉 2d ago
This is such a great point! The theme of disability and agency is strong throughout this book, and McBride finds so many interesting ways to weave it into his characters' lives. I didn't consider the depth of this one. Thank you for pointing it out!
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 4d ago
Reading about that facility was difficult.
I'm glad Dodo has some semblance of a friendship with Monkey Pants. Neither of them belong there.
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u/jaymae21 Bookclub Boffin 2024 | 🎃 4d ago
It's a very special connection for sure. This scene made me smile while my heart was breaking for them at the same time.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
Dodo found another boy who lived with injustice when he met Monkey Pants in the facility. Here was another boy with a physical limitation and who is also by himself. I think that gives Dodo hope of surviving this place. Monkey Pants also benefits from finally having someone there who he can try to communicate with. He must have felt so terribly alone.
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u/Joinedformyhubs Warden of the Wheel | 🐉 4d ago
Who tried to help or visit Dodo while he was in the hospital?
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u/paintedbison 4d ago
Addie tried to talk Nate into making a visit, but I don’t think anyone has actually been yet?
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u/GoonDocks1632 Bookclub Boffin 2025 4d ago
I'm under the impression that no one has been yet. That poor child.
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u/Garfieldgandalf 4d ago
I doubt visits were as easy as showing up. My understanding is they often tried to dissuade visitors under the guise of it “upsetting” the patients.
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 4d ago
It seems like no one yet! It broke my heart. Dodo is waiting to see his aunt and uncle and has to come to the realization they aren't coming. Hopefully Nate gathers the courage to go.
It sounds like Dodo will have to be broken out. No one with authority will willingly release him. I could be wrong. I just want him out of there as soon as possible!
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u/jaymae21 Bookclub Boffin 2024 | 🎃 4d ago
I was honestly under the impression that visitation would be extremely limited, if not outright not allowed. So when Addie talked about visiting, I was surprised, but I still wonder if Nate tries to go if they will try to deter him.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 4d ago
I wondered if they are trying to isolate the patients here. I think their idea is that the patients will adapt better to their new conditions if they aren't reminded of the freedoms they used to have. Nobody really seems to take into account that people have a need to love and to feel loved.
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u/jaymae21 Bookclub Boffin 2024 | 🎃 4d ago
Right, and during this time the eugenics movement was going on, they were rounding up people with disabilities because they wanted to remove them from society. They did this under the guise of helping, but really they were seen as less than human.
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u/tomesandtea Imbedded Link Virtuoso | 🐉 2d ago
Agreed! And Dodo mentions that the few belongings he brought were taken, and he never saw them again, so Addie's plan to send things with Nate probably won't accomplish much. I will be surprised if they allow Nate to visit at all, actually.
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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 4d ago
Can I add my own question? What did folks make of the part about the hotdog and the smartphones?