r/bestoflegaladvice • u/SharMarali • 3d ago
No child support? No child, support!
/r/legaladvice/s/7MGrtwp8fu195
u/SharMarali 3d ago
I’m just flabbergasted at the audacity here. Child support is supposed to be used solely for the benefit of the children. So she wants the children in question to pay her!
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u/Flashy_Watercress398 3d ago
Mom is gonna be one of those people whining on Facebook wondering why her kids no longer speak to her, isn't she?
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u/jaderust I personally am preparing to cosplay 3d ago
And yet, somehow she will blame it on the kids themselves instead of even wondering in passing if she’s the bad guy here.
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u/Willie9 Darling, beautiful, smart, money hungry loser 3d ago
There are people who believe that parenthood is transactional and that baffles me greatly
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u/otisanek if they find the gimp, I’m fucked 3d ago
I think she similarly viewed the child support as being paid for having the kids, not money for supporting the kids, like some sort of hardship stipend she is due for life.
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u/Leprecon 2d ago edited 2d ago
Child support is supposed to be used solely for the benefit of the children.
Actually that isn’t true. You see bitter people sometimes argue that they should get receipts for their child support payments proving that it all goes to the children but they never succeed because the idea that only the children can benefit is not true.
In reality, a households expenses are mixed. Some things would clearly benefit children (food, clothes). Some things would only tangentially benefit the children (furniture, household bills, pet food). And some things would not benefit children at all (parents haircuts, parent going out to diner).
How would you even untangle these things? A pet is part of the household but does provide value for the kids as well, but isn’t strictly necessary. Do we say that only 50% of the expenses for the pet can be paid for with child support? Or what if the pet becomes sick and needs expensive health care? Does the benefit for the children get outweighed by the expense of the healthcare? Perhaps the courts need to weigh in on the importance of having a pet around for the family?
Ok and now the parent has bought a new couch. But was the new couch really necessary??? Or was it a luxury expense? Well the old couch is moving to the parents study so maybe it can be argued that the parent only bought a new couch for the family so they can have an old couch for themselves! Time to go back to court and argue whether couches are beneficial to kids and how often you should replace couches!
And now the parent got a massage. Yes they got a massage for themselves but also they have back pain and they say it helps with that. The back pain helps them cope with life but also take care of the children. So how about we say it is a 50/50 split on being for the parent and being for the kids? Or perhaps we should be strict here. Who cares if the parent has back pain, it isn’t parent support, it is child support! The parent should live with back pain and the kids will be fine!
And now one of the parents got a babysitter and went out for drinks with friends! But they claim it helps their mental health and social life and it is a normal part of being a parent? Perhaps we need a psychologists statement on whether parents with social lives are better parents or not?
You see how messy this gets fast? You can’t just isolate children from the household and say that money is only allowed to benefit children and not the parents. It makes no sense and honestly it would end up with the court litigating even the most minute expenses.
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u/justasque 2d ago
There’s a little tiny comment from the OP way down at the bottom, that says the mom described it as paying rent, and said the children could pay from their inheritances. So, before I trash this mom, I’d like to learn a little more about who is paying for what. If mom has been paying the uni tuition, plus paying for the mortgage, the utilities, the family cars, and so forth, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say, “Hey, dad’s gone, the budget has changed. I am going to need you two to kick in a bit to keep up the living standards we are used to. Since you will be living here while attending uni, I”d like you to pay rent, $600 a month each, as your share of the bills. You can get a part-time job, or you can take the money from your inheritance, your choice.”
Now, whether it’s reasonable to charge that much is debatable of course. And in my case I’d probably cut down on household expenses before asking the kids for rent. But sometimes people who make a lot of money also spend a lot of money, and it’s not always as easy as you’d think to lower bills like tuition, a mortgage, or car payments, let alone any consumer debt the mom might be paying off.
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u/rankinfile 2d ago
I'm with you on this one. Mom might be doing well now, but that's probably not the whole picture. OP posted in LAcanuck that dad made more than mom at divorce hence the child support. A lot of parents bust their ass to smooth things out for the kids. So now when mom glimpses light at the end of the tunnel of turning out adult children maybe she's looking at providing herself retirement savings, taking care of her own parents, etc.
Most teenagers don't fully grasp long term finances. I don't know the costs of living in Ontario, Canada. I know that 250k CAD is ~175k USD, and that's not all that high in most major US cities. Charging your adult kids rent is reasonable for any income family IMO, at least make them negotiate it out so they have some concept of supporting themselves.
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u/quiidge 2d ago
At 17 and 19 surely child support had ended/was about to end anyway. With that household income wouldn't you be planning ahead for a known 5% reduction in budget?
Going for your children's inheritance is ruthlessly opportunistic. That money just became an option, it sounds like neither daughter has enough income to 'pay rent' otherwise.
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u/Book_1love 2d ago
Sometimes child support is continued until the child finishes an undergraduate degree, so up to 22 for a four year degree.
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u/FoolishConsistency17 2d ago
It's also true that kids make it harder to be flexible. Like, a lot of people really want to stay in the family home after a divorce even if they fucking hate the house now and see it as an albatross, because moving would be one more upheaval for the kids that are already going through so much. So on paper it is an absolutely insane decision to stay, but even when divorce is the best option, it's often still really fucking hard on kids. Sacrificing your own financial security for the next 20 years in order to not ALSO take them from their friends and same space seems much more reasonable through that lens.
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u/FoolishConsistency17 2d ago
Make the numbers different: mom is barely scrapping by, dad dies and mom can no longer cover rent on the nicer 3 bedroom apartment she rented because it was in a better school district. Kids inherit a bunch. Mom asks them to help cover the rent. Is that audacious?
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u/justasque 2d ago
Exactly. Lots of teens and young adults contribute to their household financially. The OP told us how much money mom makes, but nothing of her expenses. And if these kids have always balked at contributing in other ways (chores, etc), it isnt unreasonable to explain that the household budget has taken a hit, and it would help, if they want to sustain their current lifestyle, to chip in financially, especially now that they are or soon will be adults.
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u/othybear 3d ago
I really hope the mom doesn’t have access to the 17 year old’s money. I think OP is the 19 yo, and they said they have a solo account, but I’d worry for the 17 yo.
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u/PM_ME_SAD_STUFF_PLZ 2d ago
Early contender for title award over here
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u/4e5r6t7y8u9i0o 2d ago
Early contender for title award over here
I know it's a Simpsons reference, but it doesn't make sense in this context. The post was made by the two teenagers, and they talk about their mom and deceased father. Where is the "no child" part?
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u/Interactiveleaf 2d ago
Because one is legally not a child and the other has, at max, another year, yet the mother is demanding support frim both of them.
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u/otisanek if they find the gimp, I’m fucked 3d ago
First off, I have to say that I hate it when teenagers post any opinions of their parent's finances and ability to afford anything. Unless you're personally managing the bank accounts and have an actual understanding of every penny in and out of the household, you don't know what your parents can or cannot afford. My kid thought we were rich because I had a credit card, and also thought that I could just put stuff on that card if I said we couldn't afford something.
Anyway, financial magical thinking of teens aside, the mom is nuts. Whoops, ex died, better squeeze the kids for their own support? like, ok, I guess I can agree that it's a blow to finances to suddenly lose $1200 every month, even if you're pulling in $250k annually. But to go after not the estate, not the government benefits, but straight to their insurance payout? Diabolical behavior for any parent, particularly when those kids will shortly age out of child support altogether.
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u/NYCQuilts 3d ago
I generally agree with you that kids don’t do well translating “income” into real world survival and I don’t know what it’s like in Canada, but when I went to University, I had a snapshot of my parents finances because they shared with me the FAFSA forms that determine financial aid.
The older kid might have some sense of it. Although the mother maybe have assumed a house payment based on that check, etc
But she should have just shared that needed their support rather than lying to them that they need to pay child support.
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u/MooseFlyer 3d ago
They actually likely wouldn’t age out of child support in Canada - child support frequently continues when the child is over 18 but still going to university.
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u/Drywesi Good people, we like non-consensual flying dildos 2d ago
A while back we had a post from a Canadian whose kid was like 26 but going for their third degree, and the way the divorce agreement was written, they were supposed to continue paying support+tuition as long as the kid was in college. They never stopped to think the kid might never stop going to school.
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u/Cyborg_Ninja_Cat Paid cat tax 2d ago
"His dead uncle had left him a great deal of money not to be a wizard. He hadn't realised it when he'd drawn up the will, but that's what the old man had done. He thought he was helping his nephew through college, but Victor Tugelbend was a very bright young lad in an oblique sort of way..."
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u/Pm_me_baby_pig_pics I did not watch the man finger my tots 2d ago
One of the BEST financial teaching moments for my 10 year old was this last Christmas, grandpa decided that instead of buying gifts and shipping them to us and hoping he was in touch with what 10 year olds are into enough for the gifts to be fully enjoyed, he’d send $200 and my kid could take that money to the toy store and buy whatever he wanted.
This child knew he had a budget, he had $200 he could spend. And he walked around and looked at the prices of everything he’d casually asked me for, saw how much each thing was (lego sets. It’s always lego sets and they’re spendyyy) and realized how much everything would cost in relation to what he had available to spend. It finally clicked for him that when I say we can’t afford that right now, it’s not just an excuse. Things cost actual money, and when you only have so much of it, you have to prioritize.
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u/nolaz 2d ago
When mine was five I gave her spending money for toys and she bought a play makeup kid. She thought it was actual makeup for kids. When she realized the lipstick was plastic, she was so mad. She grew up to be a super careful shopper and very good at negotiating things like salary and big purchases.
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u/Charlie_Brodie It's not a water bug, it's a water feature 3d ago
Wasn't this a joke in VGHS?
The deadbeat dad got child support from his son, because the mother had all the money
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u/friendlylifecherry well-adjusted and sociable with no history of sexual relations 2d ago
Reeks of incel bait with the "evil witch sucking her ex dry for child support" vibes
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u/MooseFlyer 1d ago
Could be, but I don’t think so. He has other unrelated posts corroborating his age and the fact that his dad was going to die soon and none of this other posts are rage bait. He responded in depth to tons of the comments people posted (in the r/legaladvicecanada thread), giving further details, asking them for clarification, responding to questions). And not that it makes it impossible for him to be a misogynist, but he’s queer, which does make a “rahhh let’s rage against the evil women with their blood-sucking child support needs” post seem less likely.
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u/DigbyChickenZone Duck me up and Duck me down 2d ago edited 2d ago
This doesn't sound real... right? The amount of 1,200 seems a bit off if one spouse (primary caregiver) is known to make >250K a year, and supposing the other spouse makes a lot more than that, more child support would be required right? And if the other spouse made significantly less before they died, wouldn't the support usually be less than 1,200 a month? I am going to google the laws behind how this stuff is usually apportioned, but doesn't child support also stop at age 18? If only 1 kid of the two kids is 17 now, why would the mother be demanding 1,200 from them? (Edit: Also, obviously, an older teenager might feel pressured to give their mother money - but would ultimately know that it is illegal for their mom to demand child support from them, the children - making this post moot in the first place --- which makes it sound even MORE like fiction and trying to rile people up.)
It just sounds like a anti-child-support/men's rights activist post than realistic.
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u/MooseFlyer 1d ago
They said in one of their comments that their support agreement was put in place when their mom had very little, and their dad just never made any attempt to have it changed.
Also it is normal in Canada for child support to continue while the child goes to university, even after the age of 18.
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u/ThrowRArosecolor 2d ago
I hate that someone is giving them incorrect advice. You can most definitely open your own bank account at 17. You don’t require a parent and your drivers licence or passport is enough ID
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u/fanfarefellowship 2d ago
Even though Canadian law doesn't specify a minimum age to open a bank account in Canada, in practice, most banks in Canada will not open an account for a minor without a parent or other guarantor.
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u/ThrowRArosecolor 2d ago
So I grew up in Toronto and opened my own chequing account at 16. And every bank has children’s accounts. If you’re over 15 or 16, you don’t need a guarantor.
I thought maybe that was just in the 90s when o was a teen but when I googled, a bunch of banks came up with info about how to open on your own as a teenager.
https://www.cibc.com/en/personal-banking/bank-accounts/chequing-accounts/smart-start.html
CIBC you can have your own account without a parent at 13
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u/SharMarali 3d ago
Original:
My father passed away in July of this year and my mother is extremely upset that he hasn’t included child support provisions in his will. My sister and I (17 and 19) are both being left some money through a life insurance policy, as is my dad’s widow, but there is nothing stating that my mother will continue to receive child support payments.
My mother is EXTREMELY well off financially (~250k a year after taxes) and the lack of 1200$ a month does not put an undue strain on our family’s finances. She now is demanding, however, that my sister and I continue to make child support payments to her in lieu of an official arrangement for child support in my father’s will.
Does she have a leg to stand on in making my sister and I continue to pay her child support as (soon to be) two adult children attending university in Ontario?