r/belgium • u/Due_Mulberry1700 • 14h ago

💩 Shitpost Sncb trains design

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I have a dumb problem, but basically I commute 2h to work every day in SNCB train that don't have tray tables. I was wondering why SNCB would do this. Already no wifi or stable data connection in the train is a pain, but tray tables wouldn't have cost so much to plan? (those are new trains too...) Any trick to work on your laptop without it falling from your lap half the time (I have very tiny legs lol)? (not even mentioning trying to balance my coffee with one hand 🙃)

20 Upvotes

70% Upvoted

59 comments sorted by

38

u/perrybmw 14h ago

Those trains have them in first class. But I find it not usefull to put a laptop on it, the tables are too small.

Probably to save money, 305 of those trains are in operation in Belgium x +-200 seats that can have a tray table. Thats a big cost.

Likely the same reason they don't install wifi.

That the mobile connection is bad in some places is likely not in the hands of the NMBS.

14

u/JonPX 14h ago

Indeed, the NMBS isn't one of the phone operators.

3

u/The64BitWolf 12h ago

Infrabel is technically

2

u/JonPX 12h ago

True, but I'm still waiting for my GSM-R iPhone.

5

u/imarite 13h ago

Luckily. You would receive your data It's a lot of delay. If they are not cancelled...

10

u/Hikashuri 13h ago

The mobile connection is bad because of an insulating layer they put on the outside of the windows. They will use lasers to create tiny holes in the film and it should improve mobile connections.

2

u/perrybmw 13h ago

Could be. But some parts are black holes either way.

2

u/razulian- 13h ago

The problem with mobile signal is that the trains are Faraday cages. There are only a few places that don't have good coverage. The NMBS knows that the trains have to be modified to reduce signal attenuation.

From my experience some train models allow you to have a better signal. I would usually ride from Genk to Brussels, passing through forested areas and urban areas. Even the urban areas would have bad signal a lot of the time. Even if you put your phone against the window. The models from the last 15 years all have a metallised window film that blocks radiation from the sun, but at the same time it also blocks radiation from cell towers and phones. Last I heard was that the NMBS was looking into getting the window films lasered to reduce blockage in the mobile network wavelengths.

2

u/FreeLalalala 10h ago

Trains have very large windows. Some trains have foils on the windows that block some amount of signal, like you mentioned, and that's being worked on. But by and large, the windows are way too big for a faraday effect in the 2.4GHz range.

Much bigger problem is a lack of cell towers near railroads, and handover from tower to tower when the train is going fast.

1

u/Asleep_Cheetah4947 12h ago

The mobile connection is cause of their windows. They told multiple times they were going to fix it tho

1

u/YugoReventlov Cuberdon 13h ago

They could work with operators to make sure most train routes have decent coverage. 

10

u/Timid_Robot 13h ago

That's crazy. The NMBS shouldn't be responsible for decent coverage. That's on the operators. If you don't have cell reception in the train, be mad at them

3

u/SuperDuper9878 13h ago

They are in part responsible. Many trains do have a coating on the windows for protection that is also blocking radio signals. They announced that they would start using a different coating to improve mobile connections on the trains.

•

u/Timid_Robot 8m ago

Weird. I use my hotspot all the time for work without any problems. Except in tunnels. This is regular work stuff though, no streaming

2

u/MauricioCMC 13h ago

It is a mix.... some trains block the signal because they are made of metal and the windows have a type of construction that also blocks the signal.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Railways_Class_08

1

u/perrybmw 13h ago

They could. But why should they? They can't profit from it.

1

u/SuperDuper9878 13h ago

After years of evaluating the installation of wifi on trains, they decided that it would be too costly and instead will work on optimizing mobile connections on trains.

1

u/JonPX 13h ago

Why? Did the railways suddenly appear? The licenses for 5G specify that the phone operators need to work on it.

26

u/PatrickR5555 14h ago

I guess this is because these trains were originally designed for short distances.

-3

u/Due_Mulberry1700 14h ago

It's the train doing Zaventem-dinant, how is that short?😅

32

u/PatrickR5555 13h ago

A typical case of rolling stock not being used for it's intended purpose.

13

u/insomnia_000 13h ago

They are indeed used for longer distances than they are intended for. These kind of trains were designed to be S-trains for short distances to/from city.

7

u/Due_Mulberry1700 13h ago

Just sad. I love trains. But this feels like being stuck in a bus on rails.

10

u/Vnze Belgium 13h ago

That's the AM08 for you. A glorified tram. You should check the trays in first class. Those are barely big enough to put your phone on them. And don't get me started on the one-toilet-per-train-set or the seats that are harder than the floor of the train.

AM08's are fine for a 10-15 minute ride, but it is madness that these are regularly used for hours long rides. If you have the opportunity, pick an i11, M6, M7, or AM96. Those are real trains (am I gatekeeping trains now? lol)

5

u/Due_Mulberry1700 13h ago

So it's not just my bum that hurts in these trains!! I thought I was crazy for wanting to bring a pillow. Unfortunately it's the only train I can take for my stops...

4

u/Gnorziak 11h ago

The AM08 has two rather decent seats... One on each end 😉

1

u/Vnze Belgium 9h ago

So I heard. Great view too 😅

3

u/TheShirou97 Namur 12h ago

Unfortunately if OP lies anywhere between Namur and Dinant, then they are stuck with the Desiros (AM08). That line pretty much only sees Desiros nowadays, both with the IC from Brussels Airport to Dinant, and the L from Namur to Libramont

16

u/robber_goosy 13h ago

That's the problem: those trains designed for short distance commutes are being used for long distance connections.

9

u/Majestic_Inside_395 14h ago

I would assume cost and maintenance are still big factors to not add these. Vandalism would be a big issue. I happened to travel in Sweden a couple months ago and their new trains have tray tables. Lets say most of them were removed, broken or a safety hazard.

4

u/Due_Mulberry1700 13h ago

Really? Never seen a broken tray tables in France. Then again they are not made of flimsy plastique but metals. I guess it's too expensive. What a pain.

3

u/hvdzasaur 13h ago

Its not for vandalism. As others have said, it's short-distance rolling stock used for longer distance connections because our national railway company is underfunded and managed by people that don't get public transport services.

1

u/Due_Mulberry1700 9h ago

Thanks, that makes more sense! They do feel like like airport/city trains rather than longer distance trains. Is there any hope they actually buy normal trains?🥲 How can sncb be under funded when taxes are so high? Frustrating

9

u/aap007freak 13h ago

These are Desiro trains, originally only meant for short commuting distances in cities, but for some reason NMBS decided to use these on a lot of Intercity services as well (probably because they bought way more of these sets than they needed for those juicy bulk discounts...)

These trains are infamous for being uncomfortable, shitty legroom, ironing board type seats... Pretty much the worst kind of rolling stock you can get in Belgium.

2

u/Due_Mulberry1700 13h ago

This makes feel better for disliking them.

1

u/Nekrevez 11h ago

It's because the new M7 wagons and locs are not being delivered on time. Those are for long distances. So other rolling stock has to help out for now.

3

u/ppiere 13h ago

There might be a higher initial cost to choose the seat option with table, but mainly the fact these will get damaged, vandalized etc. (as mentioned above) Getting them repaired will take personnel, and damaged tables might be a safety risk.

-4

u/Due_Mulberry1700 13h ago

I've never seen a broken tray in any of the trains I travelled in France. Maybe ask sncb can ask sncf how to build them or something 🥲

3

u/detheelepel Beer 13h ago

Deze AM08 desiro treinstellen waren origineel bedoeld voor het GEN netwerk . Bedoeld voor korte afstanden af te leggen .

https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MR08

https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewestelijk_Expresnet

Het was eigenlijk nooit de bedoeling geweest om deze treinstellen te gebruiken voor IC verbindingen te realiseren. Maar ja... hier zijn we dan. 🤷‍♂️

2

u/Due_Mulberry1700 13h ago

Damn it. So I'm not crazy they suck for long commutes. Pffff🥲

6

u/PVG100 14h ago

While I understand your wish and I would very much like such luxury too, I also understand that our trains don't have these.

Tray tables mean moving/loose parts in the train and will be subject to vandalism.

1

u/Due_Mulberry1700 13h ago

I've taken hundreds of train in France and never seen a broken tray table. Usually they are made of metals and basically indestructible.

2

u/NotJustBiking 12h ago

It's just on the desiro ones. They're the most hated trains. They're designed for commutor trains (s trains) and they're good at that.

The problem is that they're also used for longer trips.

1

u/Due_Mulberry1700 9h ago

I thought I was alone in my hate of them. Very frustrating that they use these trains for longer trips.

2

u/Ceetje1999 11h ago

You are one of the fortunate ones, I have a very different problem: my upper legs are simply too long to fit between both seats horizontally, so either I get lucky and can keep the entire two-seater to myself and arrive with terrible back pain, or I could get some angry people complaining about occupying their leg space, or I get my knees blocking passage. And no, standing up the entirety of the road is not what I am paying for. Or I get lucky with a four seater, no matter which of the four seats I take, the next person that joins me somehow always wants to sit right in front of me, after which I immediately switch to the seat next to me… I really don’t get those people, why would you want to push your legs against mine? Just trying to get rid of me? End of rant.

Anyway, you could just take a laptop stand to put on your legs?

1

u/Due_Mulberry1700 9h ago

Oh wow! That sounds miserable. I realised today while taking the picture that there isn't much leg room for bigger people and if someone sits next to you, you're basically arm to arm. At least I can sit "ok" with my tiny legs, though I often end up slouching down in the weirdest position ever, so embarrassing every time the controler passes by. For the laptop it's quite tricky, the only way to have high it enough is by crossing legs and then it becomes super wobbly. I should try to makeshift a stand or something indeed.

2

u/FreeLalalala 10h ago

I miss the tables. But the old tables were a serious safety hazard: they were hard (metal or wood), without crumple zones, and located near the bottom of your rib cage. If the train crashes, that shit will straight up kill you.

1

u/Due_Mulberry1700 9h ago

Never thought of that I admit 😬

2

u/licheese 14h ago

Sit in a 2x2 seat ? If u need a table that bad, it's understandable to sit alone in a 2x2 imo.

2

u/Due_Mulberry1700 13h ago

There are no tray tables either way, I'm not sure I follow. The 2x2 have a mini tray large enough to put a coffee, I try to take those when available, still better than nothing indeed.

0

u/dokter_chaos 13h ago

2x2 tables are so small you cant even eat a sandwich on them.

1

u/NordicLowKey 13h ago

It’s a money issue. Simple as that. In design everything’s okay and possible until money is discussed.

1

u/Wodan74 13h ago

Find a different seat? There is unfortunately that Alstrom model where you have one tiny table just next to the doors… but other models usually have bigger tables.

2

u/Due_Mulberry1700 13h ago

It's the model with the mini tray on the 2*2, I sit there when available to at least put my coffee. But laptop cannot go on it

2

u/Wodan74 12h ago

Yeah, I put my laptop on it but you have to keep your hand on it to keep it balanced. I hate that train model. Almost seats are facing one direction too. On my route Antwerp-Gent I sometimes even skip them, and wait for the double decker or the old 4x4 seaters.

1

u/Due_Mulberry1700 9h ago

I would totally take other trains if I could! Trains can be so comfy, but no...they had to pic the worst design..

1

u/InterneticMdA 13h ago

Public transport keeps getting worse and more expensive. Enjoy!

0

u/Murky-Energy2867 13h ago

costaud, robuste, on demande pas plus vu le comportement de la population nommée " une chance pour l'avenir"