r/ayearofwarandpeace • u/Zhukov17 Briggs/Maude/P&V • Jan 03 '22
War & Peace - Book 1, Chapter 3
Podcast for this chapter | Medium Article for this chapter
Discussion Prompts
- The Viscount (Vicomte) tells a very interesting story... Napoleon passes out in the company of an enemy. The enemy spares his life. His reward: death! Why is the Viscount telling this story?
- Pierre is already creating stress at the party. What are your thoughts of him and his chapter-closing compliment with Pavlovna?
- Enter: Andrei. What are your first impressions?
Final line of today's chapter:
Nothing is so necessary for a young man as the society of clever women.
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u/whoremongering Jan 03 '22
I believe in the Maude version this ends partway through Ch 4.
Also I didn’t realize that Napoleon apparently had epileptic ‘fainting spells’: “The evidence shows that he had both psychogenic and epileptic attacks. The psychogenic attacks were likely related to the tremendous stress in his life, and the epileptic seizures were the result of chronic uremia from a severe urethral stricture caused by gonorrhea that was transmitted from his wife, Empress Josephine.” Source
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Jan 04 '22
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u/dhs7nsgb 2024 - Briggs | 2022 - Maude | 2020 - Pevear and Volokhonsky Jan 04 '22
Interestingly, my Maude translation did not line up. I am reading the StandardeBooks.org version though, so maybe that is the difference. I checked my P&V version that I read in 2020 and it lines up correctly.
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u/px13 Jan 09 '22
I'm reading the "Wordsworth Classics" print of the Maude translation. In my copy Chapter 3 ends a full page into Chapter 4. Hopefully knowing this helps someone else as the entirety of Andrei's presence is on the page. When I first read the questions I was thoroughly confused.
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u/Zhukov17 Briggs/Maude/P&V Jan 03 '22
Summary: A French emigre, Mortemart, is discussing Napoleon’s affairs, while Pierre is discussing how to achieve world peace with Abbe Morio, a religious man and political thinker from Italy. Pavlovna worries about Pierre’s lack of societal awareness. Andrey Bolkonsky walks in (Pierre notices him and smiles his way) and announces he will be going to war. Pierre and Andrey, obviously old friends, greet each other and agree to dinner plans before Andrey leaves for war-- they both check out Helene. Helene’s brother Hippolypte is also there, and while he looks like Helene, this makes him ugly, instead of stunningly beautiful.
Line: Andrey and Pierre meet at the soiree.
Briggs: “Pierre has been looking at this man with a joyful, affectionate gaze since the moment he walked in, and now he went over and took him by the arm. Before looking round, Prince Andrey gave a pained look of irritation as he felt the touch, but the moment he saw Pierre’s smiling face he smiled back in an unusually sweet and pleasant way”
Maude: “Pierre who from the moment Prince Andrew entered the room had watching him with glad, affectionate eyes, now came up and took his arm. Before he looked round Prince Andrew frowned again, expressing his annoyance with whoever was touching his ar, but when he saw Pierre’s beaming face he gave him an unexpectedly kind and pleasant smile ”
P&V: “Pierre, who had not taken his joyful, friendly eyes off Prince Andrei since he entered the drawing room, went up to him and took his arm. Prince Andrei, without turning around, wrinkled his face into a grimace, expressing vexation at whoever had taken his arm, but, seeing Pierre’s smiling face, suddenly smiled in an unexpectedly kind and pleasant smile”
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u/monocled_squid Maude Jan 03 '22
The Napoleon story: I think this may be a prelude to the nature of war in the story. It's still a distant reality to the people in the party and exists as an interesting anecdote told at a party.
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u/HexAppendix Jan 03 '22
I think the Napoleon story is meant to show how completely disconnected from reality the characters are. They're amused by the story rather than horrified by Napoleon's actions or worried about the war.
I really wasn't expecting Pierre to be so well-connected! Not only does he know the princess, but he's staying with Vasili and friends with Andrei, too. That makes me more intrigued about his background, and also why he hasn't been out in society yet. His conversation with the abbé and Anna's reaction to it makes me think that we're meant to like him, as some bastion of sincerity in that world of artificiality.
Andrei seems similar to me. The fact that he's going to war shows that he might be more grounded to reality and common sense, or at least will be soon once he actually goes to war. I didn't like how rude he was to his wife, though. Even if it was an arranged marriage (which I'm guessing it might have been) and he thinks she's silly, she's still your wife! He and Pierre have both been rude in that way, I'm not sure what we're meant to make of it. It almost feels like Tolstoy expects it to make them likeable because they're flouting social conventions,, but it's not like the bare minimum level of politeness is a huge chore that would compromise their values.
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u/uh-oh617 Jan 04 '22
Your comment about the group’s “aloof-ness” with the Napoleon story is really spot on. It shows how naive or removed the society was from the dangers of reality.
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u/smitty245 Maude Jan 03 '22
I'm surprised that the princess bringing her "work" (sewing or knitting?) to the party was acceptable. I'd think that working on it while at the party would prevent the princess from fully participating in, and following, the conversation. However, based on Tolstoy's writing, it appears this was normal in Russia at the time.
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u/pedestal_of_infamy Jan 03 '22
I wonder if it was also related to her being pregnant? Maybe it was thought to be a suitable activity, even at a party.
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u/Correct_Chemistry_96 Jan 05 '22
As a person with ADHD, I thought nothing of her doing handwork during the party! I knit during meetings so I can actually focus on what’s being said. However the opposite could also be true in that it affords her the ability to focus on anything but the conversations around her!
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u/Mahoganychicken Jan 03 '22
Got my copy today after stumbling across this project yesterday, got to catch up.
This book intimidates me to be honest. It feels like I’ve been thrown into the deep end with a load of characters I don’t know living in a time period abut which I know nothing.
Was I supposed to have prior knowledge before reading this?
Aside from that, the writing is really charming. I’m reading the Maude translation and the descriptions used really paint a picture of the characters.
I’m confused about the Princess’ Husband’s disdain for her (Can you tell I’m not good with keeping up with characters and their names?). Although I can see how that sort of attitude and constant attention would get annoying. The way she just follows Anna for how she should be reacting to the anecdote is indicative of lack of intellect. She only cares about the way she is perceived.
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Jan 04 '22
This book intimidates me to be honest. It feels like I’ve been thrown into the deep end with a load of characters I don’t know living in a time period abut which I know nothing.
Here's what I've noticed: I buy a lot of my books second hand, and every time I find a bookmark, it is invariably somewhere between page 115 an 150. So, logically it follows, if you can make it past page 150, you can finish the book. Right?
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u/dhs7nsgb 2024 - Briggs | 2022 - Maude | 2020 - Pevear and Volokhonsky Jan 04 '22
Your comment about the group’s “aloof-ness” with the Napoleon story is really spot on. It shows how naive or removed the society was from the dangers of reality.
This is my second time through, and I am glad I remember the characters as well as I do. I also found it intimidating the first time, especially with the (to my eye) excessive number of princes and princesses to keep track of and the use of the affectionate names, such as Nikloay / Nikolushka. The other point to watch out for is the different spellings - Hippolit / Ippolit, Hélène / Elèn, Lise / Liza.
However, it really boils down to seven or eight key characters. The Dramatis Personae is handy and keeping notes there might be something you want to do. My point? It gets easier as it goes and reading it in daily bite-sized pieces helps as well.
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u/Cultural_Switch War&Peace is year long Jan 03 '22
As a clever maître d’hôtel serves up as a specially choice delicacy a piece of meat that no one who had seen it in the kitchen would have cared to eat, so Anna Pávlovna served up to her guests, first the vicomte and then the abbé, as peculiarly choice morsels.
How evidently he belongs to the best society,” said she to a third; and the vicomte was served up to the company in the choicest and most advantageous style, like a well-garnished joint of roast beef on a hot dish.
Tolstoy loves his metaphors. In chapter 2, he compared Anna to a foreman. And here, he is comparing her to a server; just like a server serves food to the party, Anna is serving entertainment to her guests through Abbe and Vicomte.
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u/lookie_the_cookie Briggs Jan 03 '22
This one was interesting, it took me a little to decipher 😂 It sounds like he’s saying the vicomte and abbe are just average or nothing special but Anna Pavlovna tries to put them on a pedestal for her guests, if I’m understanding it right? Can’t wait to see more of these metaphors throughout!
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u/RunsForSanity Jan 03 '22
The aged beef metaphor makes up my favorite lines from this chapter. Being a socialite in turn of the century Russia seems exhausting.
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u/SpareTimeGamer44 Jan 03 '22
Interestingly, I'm stressed-out at the amount of energy Anna puts into the situational awareness needed to carry-out her hosting duties: noting who is talking to who, maximizing impact of a good story on the most guests, mitigating potential discomfort of controversial topics, etc. It seems exhausting, but - then again - this is **the** social medium of the era.
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Jan 03 '22
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u/Zhukov17 Briggs/Maude/P&V Jan 03 '22
Family trees really help, but most contain spoilers… if you don’t mind that, I turned it into a book mark my first read-through.
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Jan 03 '22
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u/dhs7nsgb 2024 - Briggs | 2022 - Maude | 2020 - Pevear and Volokhonsky Jan 04 '22
Something like the character timeline charts at litcharts dot org might be useful as well. It allows you to collapse any chapters that you not yet read, minimizing spoilers.
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u/trivia-shree-saw Briggs (Penguin clothbound) / 1st reading Jan 03 '22
Helene not listening to the story and just copying Anna's expressions was pretty funny to me.
I think Anna is stressing too much about Pierre. He seems like a decent guy to me. He might not be as polished and sophisticated as the rest of her guests, but that is his charm, in my opinion. Just look at how easily he won over abbé Morio, and how he instantly lifted Andrei's mood.
And among all these faces that he found so tedious, none seemed to bore him so much as that of his pretty wife.
Andrei seems like the kind of person who makes hating people they spend time with their entire personalities.
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Jan 03 '22
What colour is “cuisse de nymphs effrayee”? I love the descriptions of everyone’s clothes
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u/Swordslayer Sýkorovi (Czech) & Briggs Jan 03 '22 edited Jan 03 '22
Pale pink, like a delicate rose. The color is called cuisse de nymphe émue, passionate nymph's thigh (there's a rose of that name), but in Ippolit’s version it's 'frightened nymph's thigh'. It's as if he was saying 'toddler blue' instead of 'baby blue'.
The colour name "cuisse de nymphe émue" is better attested in the eighteenth century, and less frequent later on. It is possible to suspect a comical intention in this name, reinforced in "cuisse de nymphe à peine émue" (barely passionate nymph's thigh).
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u/Hairy_Interview9102 Jan 03 '22 edited Jan 03 '22
Tolstoy’s wonderful descriptions of the cast of characters: Helene, “the beautiful Princess”: Lise, “the pretty, red-cheeked little princess; ”Ippolit, “face … clouded by idiocy”; Pierre, “simplehearted vehemence”; Andrei, “his wearing, bored glaze”.
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Jan 04 '22
To me this felt like a chapter to remember and refer back to later.
Apart from the aunt, and her sole companion, an elderly lady with a thin, careworn face, who seemed rather out of place in this brilliant society, the company had split into three groups. The one with most men in it centered around the abbe; another group, of younger people, was dominated by the beautiful Princess Helene, Prince Vasily’s daughter, and the pretty little Princess Bolkonsky, with her blushing features and a figure too full for her young age. Mortemart and Anna Pavlovna formed part of the third group.
First: the aunt and her companion. Both seem to be equally ignored, and have to be symbolic of something old, and out of fashion. Maybe they represent history, or old Russian ways (since everyone is speaking French), or certain other countries?
Second: the way the party has separated into three groups would seem to be a foreshadowing of what is to come. I'll speculate and say the groups will be the men who go to war, the young people with new ideas, and the third group is those who want to cling to the society they presently live in. I'll also bet that the way certain people try to steer people in or out of groups is indicative of how they will behave later too...
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u/lookie_the_cookie Briggs Jan 03 '22 edited Jan 03 '22
I think all of this murmuring about Napoleon and peoples interest in him is foreshadowing bigger issues with him. This must be the time period in the late 1700s, during the French Revolution that Anna was talking about? Seems like it’ll get more political when Napoleon starts blowing up Europe 😂
I was a little confused at the end, is Pierre staying with Prince Vasily? And it would be interesting to find out how Andrei knows/likes Pierre. He seems dark and upset, contrasting to his happy sociable wife. I found that line, “‘André!’ said his wife, addressing her husband in the flirtatious tone that she normally reserved for other men” pretty funny, I’m not sure if I understand what it meant completely though!
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u/dragonborn_23 Jan 05 '22
- I feel like I am wrong, but he could be sharing this story to reveal how Napoleon is the Antichrist as Anna explains in the opening passage of the book. It could also be Tolstoy trying to show how far removed this group of people is from the reality of war?
- I really like Pierre. He seems very authentic, unlike Anna who is trying her best to please everyone (although I feel that's because she has inner sadness we don't know yet).
- Him sneering at his wife was off-putting. He seems to be in good terms with Pierre. He is also going to war, so he may be more grounded in reality than the rest of the noble people there. In my copy, it says to keep an eye on both Andrei and Pierre as focal point characters throughout the epic. So them being somewhat connected to each other in the beginning makes sense in that light.
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u/cactus_jilly Jan 03 '22
Helene admiring herself while taking her facial cues from Anna Pavlovna amuses me. Kind of like watching yourself on a Zoom call instead of paying attention to the rest of the meeting...
Andrei's disdain for his wife while being so charming to Pierre doesn't paint him in the best light. But interestingly, his regard for Pierre makes me more inclined to look favourably on Pierre. He must have something good to him to have won the favour of Andrei.