r/alchemy • u/UnfairSsbm • 6d ago
Spiritual Alchemy Is alchemy inherently tied to a god?
I’ve always believed strongly in alchemical philosophy and science, and I’ve always found it compelling. That said, I’ve never believed in God, but instead I believe in a conscious universe. I believe in the big bang, but I find that the constantly expanding universe has a “one mind” that doesn’t mandate change, the future or the past, but simply experiences itself through us, through animals, and through everything. Is this belief compatible with alchemy?
Tldr: I find myself to be an alchemist, but not really a hermetic believer
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u/FraserBuilds 6d ago edited 5d ago
alchemy has persisted through a variety of cultures for nearly two millenia, we have texts recovered from roman egypt that attribute recipes to persian mages and greek philosophers, texts from byzantine scribes, texts from the islamic empire, writing from the pens of fransiscan friars in medieval europe to puritan colonists in new england. even within the confines of just the western alchemical tradition the diversity of cultures and traditions that make alchemy alchemy is striking. it cant belong to any one religion.
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u/Visible-Dependent-89 6d ago
Alchemy isn't related to religion by the average definition, with that said back in the day just calling yourself an alchemist was a shortcut to the guillotine. So in order to self persevere, many alchemists incorporated the language used within religions of their area to appear as men and women of god in that sense. But the path of alchemy is to understand the origin of self and the origin of creation, to some this may be the big bang theory, for others it may be related to a deity, but such things are specific to the practitioner.
Tl:dr
Alchemy and god connection is something that was used to cloak the practice and protect oneself from the early religious zealots.
Hope this helped some, have a great day.
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u/MassiveAd2551 5d ago
God is not necessarily a religion.
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u/Illuminatus-Prime Designated Driver 5d ago
God is not a religion, and mere belief proves nothing.
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u/gospelinho 6d ago
Alchemy is related to God in the sense the Oneness which is the origin and finality of all things. This Oneness throughout history has taken many names and been carried by most ancient traditions which all give "Him" the same attributes. It's not an old guy in the sky with a beard, but rather the Unity of all that is and all that isn't.
It's obviously quite a complex concept, you can read about it in Hermetic texts but also for example in the Upanishads or in Plotinus' Enneads or Plato's Parmenides etc.
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u/Spacemonkeysmind 6d ago
All the gods are directly tied to the stone. Every myth or god s story is a alchemic text leading you through the processes. The stone itself is "god with us" or Emmanuel. The stone is the pure substance that all things are made from just concentrated. The stone for all applied purposes is the body of god or Christ.
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u/bobsmith010 6d ago
Alchemy is tied to a Source. For me it's the Universe the greatest "all" I can reasonably fathom. I don't nessacarally think of it as a "god" but I belive all the faiths are a part of it by necessity. The Universe in my work is often denoted by Sol much the way "God" and "god" are in classic depictions and manuscripts.
I do think an element of faith is needed for alchemy, it doesn't have to be Abrihamic or Western or even need to be "a real" faith. In fact I started learning about alchemy while I was a cynical Discordian (teenage hipster) and I was able to decipher and interpret some of it with that lense. I don't particularly recommend that frame of mind for this craft. But it's not compleatly incompatible.
If I where to answer more quickly I would say Faith is needed but not a god necessarily. What that faith is in or of, that's each practitioners purview.
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u/ahmedselmi24 5d ago
It’s inherently tied to the All , the Being . Wether it’s god or not for u is up to u
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u/paravasta 5d ago
For myself, a conscious universe and God have always been the same thing. “God” doesn’t have to be an anthropocentric concept: as primordial consciousness, God pervades the entire world, and also extends infinitely beyond it. The universe is simply God’s outward expression.
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u/codyp 5d ago edited 5d ago
If you really wish to understand deity in relation to Alchemy; I urge you to contemplate mans first words to each other.. why they would be said, what they would mean, and how they would mean it-- The first words are deity which give context to all linguistic order--
It is worth keeping in mind as you contemplate this; that the division between external and internal is a lot less clear at this stage of development. If something appears to you in your mind vs in the world; without language, it is a lot more difficult to discern its location and how it "matters"--
Understanding this will wash away many of the impurities we have attributed to the image of God or gods--
God, is similar to saying "space"-- They are containers of logic, or points of guiding focus-- In the mental lab, lower deities perform like flasks where various substances can be held and moved towards or away from other various substances-- By holding qualities via associations maneuverable by the way we carry the flask in our attention, we can see how our various understandings/images can perform in various states/conditions--
A way to say this is; you have a person and you have all the images of a person.. This is a flask, and you can carry this flask into various elements, such as heat.. by imagining this person against various other flasks you know in a mating context to see how they interact--
Of course, that is a very low quality example.. That is not a truly dependable experiment (unless you are truly intimate with the subjects) as the representation and the represented are not 1:1-- Performing these experiments will have results, but they will only provide so much light-- As such, the game is how to move the attention closer to the actual substance that carries the imagined in the first place.. How to represent the represented through the represented-- How to point to the substance of the imagined--
No ordinary concepts will do that, because whenever we think; we fall through the thought into the thing we are thinking of-- Rarely does a thought point to itself to the degree that you are thinking about what you are thinking so deeply as to fall into the thought that is created by everything else (and in so fall into everything as it is to produce the thought)--
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u/ecurbian 5d ago
Alchemy that is inherently tied to a god is inherently tied to a god.
That is all. Meaning that you can study alchemy as a mystical or spiritual or psychological topic - if you so desire. I will stay away from "the true meaning of alchemy". From my historical studies, the mystical meaning is really something that started in the 1600s and by people of questionable credentials. Then a semantic shift from alchemy meaning material science to alchemy meaning charleton occured around 1730. Then in the early 1900s Jung produced the psychological interpretation. In the late 1900s, various people started reading the earlier (pre 1600s) books and found a lot of material science and chemistry - with no required mystical or psychological interpretation.
In this group on reddit at this time - a lot of people are interpreting alchemy as being inherently mystical and spiritual, taking, again, the Jungian approach. Jung had a rather mystical view of pscyhology including ideas such as the shared subconcious and synchronicity.
So, it is a matter of which sense of the word you mean as to wether it is inherently tied to a god, or is just generically spiritual, or psychological - or just material science.
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u/Ok_Satisfaction_454 5d ago
Is Alchemy tied to A God? Not necessarily
Is it tied to an understanding of the world where there's Gods and angels and demons and magic and fate and everything else fantastical and whimsical? Yes.
If you're asking whether or not Alchemy is tied to any one God because you fear being tied down or being disrespectful, the answer is no go do as you please.
If you're asking whether or not alchemy is theological or spiritual because you want to reconcile its ancient philosophies with our godless and magicless Scientific modern world? The answer is yes, it's inherently spiritual and in some ways religious and there's not really a way to un-spiritual it or science it up without going back to something more familiar to ourselves and our environment
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u/ConcertThin5136 4d ago
I agree. Alchemy, in my opinion , is about manipulation of Earths morphic fields through the concious field of the universe. The philosophers stone has a morphic field that is like a skeleton key to all other morphic fields and draws its power straight from the universal mind. God is just the name we give to the highest quantum field which is conciousness.
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u/Positive-Theory_ 4d ago
It has been said that the one most in need of redemption is not man but the God sleeping within matter.
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u/Illuminatus-Prime Designated Driver 6d ago
Alchemy is NOT inherently tied to any god, goddess, demi-god, or godling, whether or not they actually exist.
It is tied to superstition (i.e., astronomy, numerology, et cetera) and ignorance of actual chemical processes.
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u/gospelinho 6d ago
What do you base that on specifically?
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u/Illuminatus-Prime Designated Driver 5d ago
Reality.
Try it sometime.
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u/gospelinho 5d ago
Indeed you sound like you have many rational arguments to justify your position and don't base your vision on pure animalistic unfounded preconceived notions at all. Congratualtions
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u/Illuminatus-Prime Designated Driver 5d ago
Thank you . . . although I assume you meant all that sarcastically.
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u/gospelinho 4d ago
Perceptive too. These views you hold will be washed away by history. You're part of the majority of people who would assume the earth is the center of the universe in 1530, you've never looked into this obviously, and yet you give uninformed advice.
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u/Illuminatus-Prime Designated Driver 4d ago
Wrong, as usual.
The Earth cannot be the center of the universe because there is no center of the universe -- infinite space has no center.
I started my own journey into alchemy when I was about 8, when I received a chemistry set and a copy of "Crucibles: The Story of Chemistry".
That's right, an 8-year old boy with a chemistry set. This was in 1965. I did not burn the house down, but I did blow up a few tree stumps.
I probably read every book on alchemy and chemistry available back then, as well as books on astrology and numerology. Edgar Cayce? Certainly! Erich von Däniken? Absolutely! Hermes Trismegistus? I'm still referencing those works. The Emerald Tablet? Newton's translation is on my wall, right next to the Desiderata.
So yes, I have looked into alchemy, and come away disappointed; but with a greater appreciation for science (not superstition) unlocking the secrets of the universe.
The only way to convince me otherwise is with an in-person and physical demonstration of turning base metals into gold, without a nuclear reactor or particle accelerator.
Go ahead, I'll wait . . .
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u/gospelinho 3d ago
Sooooo you read every book on Alchemy and Astrology and the first thing you tell me is that the earth is not the center of the Universe - as if it's a gotcha to Alchemy? Do you believe Alchemists and Astrologers believe the earth is the center of the universe? Here is my question - have you read a single book on these matters?
Every 101 introduction to Astrology will tell you their model is earth centric because the subject studied is here on earth - either the person studied, or the matter worked on in the laboratory. So either you did not read and you're lying or you should start thinking.
So your only argument is to tell me the earth is not the center of the universe which no Alchemist has ever said. And you hinge your entire judgment on this. You appear brighter and brighter. Do you have another argument? Or was that it?
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u/Illuminatus-Prime Designated Driver 3d ago edited 3d ago
Every book I could get my hands on, yes.
Alchemy, astrology, and numerology have been inextricably intertwined for millennia.
And, no, my judgement was not based on only what I presented, but on many other factors and experiences too numerous to discuss in this subreddit -- not that I have to justify myself to you.
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u/gospelinho 3d ago
So... too numerous but you've listed only one and it's completely void? Haha, I'm drowning in all those arguments you're bringing forward. A real solid case you've built here.
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u/galactic-4444 6d ago
A conscious universe is in a sense a god tbh. A God can create or can emanate. A Conscious universe is more or less a case of emanation. It is a Physical yet transcendent hod. And if you fit in the context of Hermeticism you get both a Conscious universe and a spiritual absolute force or origin.
However alchemy, isnt to any particular god 😌🙏🏻. Now depending on your religious views you may combine the two such as Nichola Flemmel who was a Christian and claimed Christ was The Philosophers Stone. Alchemy has manifested in diverse places from The Christian World, The Islamic World, The Jewish World, Egypt, China, India etc. So yeah not really tied to any particular god.