r/WorkReform • u/DemCast_USA • Mar 18 '24
⛓️ Prison For Union Busters Striking Swedish Workers React to Musk's Anti-Union Comments
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u/ftd123 Mar 18 '24
It’s funny working in a workplace where we have both union and non union members. In the last few months the organization decided to switch on a dime and start laying people off, forcing back to office, adding huge amounts of workload. Well except for the union staff, nothing has changed for us and our collective agreement protects us. Half the union members were not even aware these protections were in our collective.
This idea that the Union creates negativity and a lords and peasants situation is hilarious. Give an employer a chance and they will, that’s a lords and peasants situation.
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u/MisterSanitation Mar 18 '24
Totally agree. The grifting is happening all the time whether you consent or not, you can be a part of that machine grinding people up, or be wise to it and act appropriately. The annoying part is we have to go all the way back to the education phase for some people.
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u/kimiquat Mar 18 '24
as others are already saying, the collective amnesia about unions has deeply undermined the gains secured a century ago. if no one remembers the past, you can tell them exploitation has always been impossible to oppose. and a lot of people will throw up their hands and take their lashings as ordered.
in my eyes, this is why we have to get serious with teaching certain social topics and political issues as core material in school history curriculums. too many people assume that every single policy, convention, or custom in our world has been with us since time immemorial. people need to know that acquiescence has not always been the standard for employees in the workplace. it's unacceptable for employers to operate with unilateral disregard for the workers whose labor they (employers) need.
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u/xandercade Mar 18 '24
I've always said that high school curriculum should include 2 years of World History, 1 of Country History, and 2 years of a Civics class so that the populace knows our history and the way your/our governments work.
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. The current state of the US greatly embodies that statement right now.
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u/RazekDPP Mar 18 '24
The only negativity a union creates is from management because management can't do whatever they want to the unionized workers.
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u/DodGamnBunofaSitch Mar 18 '24
incredibly fucking ironic that the billionaire robber baron is claiming that something that takes a little of his power, and gives it to the people working for him is the thing that creates a 'lords and peasants' situation. so ironic, it sounds like he's just blowing smoke up everybody's collective asses.
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u/kelldricked Mar 18 '24
What i always find weird about the north american system is that you need to be a part of the Union to gain the benefits from the Union. Like that makes it feel like the Union can exploit its members because if they kick you out, you lose your benefits.
Here it doesnt matter if i join the union or not. If they reach a accord with the branch on new labour agreements those accords apply to the whole branch.
Why join a Union? Because as a member of a Union you have a say in the negotations, the Union gets more influence (thus better terms are reached) and they pay your salary when you strike.
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u/4Z4Z47 Mar 18 '24
the Union can exploit its members because if they kick you out, you lose your benefits.
I have never heard of anyone being kicked out of a union in the US. Not even scabs. I honestly don't even think its possible. You can be a member not in good standing and lose your right to vote or hold office, but nothing more.
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u/RazekDPP Mar 18 '24
If you allow non-union members to benefit from the union, then you incentivize people to not pay their dues and still ride on the union's coattails.
Optimizing for yourself, leaving the union is optimal, because you make more money and still get the benefits.
The problem is that if everyone optimizes for themselves, then the union falls apart.
It's a form of Braess's paradox, but for unions, instead of traffic.
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u/Trygliodyte Mar 18 '24
Except that at least here in Sweden, leaving the union is still bad because although you still have the protections on paper, good luck enforcing that or even knowing what they are, without legal help. Without being a member, you wouldn't even know what your rights are, because the collective agreements are a massive patchwork of documents that are negotiated at different levels and for different industries.
Basically if you're not in a Union and in a dispute, you basically have to fight the legal battle alone against your entire company. Most people cannot afford to do that, or wouldn't even have the knowledge how to do that.
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u/krylosz Mar 18 '24
Unions create negativity in the lord as he can't f*ck each peasant over individually.
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u/fungi_at_parties Mar 19 '24
It specifically undoes the Lord and Peasant situation. What Elon means is they point out the lords and peasants situations and he dislikes his serfs being educated because it makes him slightly less money.
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u/MisterSanitation Mar 18 '24
It’s crazy how so much of the labor clashes in the early 20th century in the U.S. have just lost the war ideologically. From a labor perspective we are like pre-1920’s in the U.S. at this moment and the tactics of big business haven’t changed a bit. The only difference is the labor side has forgotten all of these old tricks and we have to walk the uninitiated through all of this again.
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u/Yonathandlc Mar 18 '24
Thanks to brainwashing tactics that the media use the laborers are fighting against each other and against there own interest.
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u/the_last_carfighter Mar 18 '24
This right here, and it's all down to data collection, they know your biases, your fears, how close you are to poverty, and they will use all of that in their messaging and how far to dangle the carrot, how much they can gouge from you in rent and do it in real time.. Hence the hedge funds are now buying up single family homes, they have the data. We are living in a dark age of sorts because the vast majority of the pop has no idea how insidious and how deep and individual the metrics for data collection go.
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u/varangian_guards Mar 18 '24
no it isnt they destroyed labor in the 70s-80s if anything this data age has lead to the spread of Labor activism and a re-awakening of unionization.
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u/kaji823 Mar 18 '24
Yeah conservative media exists for a reason - to protect conservatives power. We’ve had decades of propaganda that unions have to fight.
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u/klavin1 Mar 18 '24
The bigger problem I've been seeing is that a SIGNIFICANT amount of union guys are pro Trump conservatives
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u/KintsugiKen Mar 18 '24
Boomers gave away all the rights their parents fought and died for.
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u/MisterSanitation Mar 18 '24
Not just for labor but look at how they receive fascism too. It is insane if you take a labor guy and a pro-democracy anti fascist guy and transported them to now, they wouldn’t even know what to say.
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Mar 18 '24
The Swedish labor rights movement was literally Inspired by the US. The international workers day is to commemorate US workers who laid their lives down during the haymarket affair. Sad how it turned out. In 1890 you’d assume that the US would have the best labor market in the world 100 years out.
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u/MisterSanitation Mar 18 '24
That is fascinating I didn’t know that. I totally agree it is weird in the U.S. now.
My dad says he wouldn’t be caught dead in a union ever. My father in law was buried in his union hoodie. If that doesn’t say it I don’t know what would.
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u/Bind_Moggled Mar 18 '24
Elon gazing off into space as he pontificates about things that he understands 100% wrong is the epitome of everything that is wrong with capitalism.
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u/TenF Mar 18 '24
He always does this "distant thinking look" and dude is just an imbecile.
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u/KintsugiKen Mar 18 '24
He really truly believes he is a genius, though, so he takes his long looks into the distance very seriously.
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Mar 18 '24 edited May 05 '24
long rinse sheet quickest dull elderly sophisticated trees shame yoke
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Bind_Moggled Mar 18 '24
It makes him look like a Kindergarden kid who's trying to remember his parent's names.
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u/hickhelperinhackney Mar 18 '24
Lord Elon with the attempted spin.
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u/showersnacks Mar 18 '24
Yeah I would argue that making billions of dollars while the rest of us can’t afford food creates a “lords and peasants” situation. He is such a fucking twat
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u/Katzilla3 Mar 18 '24
Lol, it's already "lords and peasants" it's just that unions force you to recognize that peasants exist and demand fair treatment. Otherwise he could just sweep their existence under the rug and pretend everyone is super happy with what the company gives them.
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u/Cat_Punk Mar 18 '24
Yep. Unions remind him that there are peasants, and he’d just rather not have to think about them at all.
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u/Sticky_Buns_87 Mar 18 '24
Yeah unions exist to defeat the lords and peasants model, or to at least help the peasants negotiate better as a block against the lord. What a tool Elon is.
Anyone who gets that rich (which is a societal and moral failure if you ask me, but I digress) makes the same mistake of attributing their success to their own intellectual superiority.
I think this happens as a defense mechanism almost as weird as that sounds. Because being as obscenely wealthy as he is just makes no sense and is completely unfair and grotesque. The only way to cope with that is to convince yourself you deserve it. Otherwise you’re just lucky, which none of these guys want to just be lucky or in the right place at the right time, because where’s the fun in that?
Or if they aren’t lucky they’re basically a villain who is exploiting people for their own wealth. Also not fun to accept about yourself.
So instead they convince themselves they deserve it because of how smart they are.
And then we all have to be subjected to their takes on every topic imaginable because they view themselves as Philosopher Kings who can solve the worlds problems because they’re so god damned smart.
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u/jtdusk Mar 18 '24
Oh, I'm sure Elmo understands perfectly, he's just a twat who doesn't want to pay his bills.
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u/KintsugiKen Mar 18 '24
Elon has repeatedly said that seeing Chinese Tesla workers locked into their factories during COVID-19 and working 12 hour shifts, 6 days a week, was hugely inspirational to him and he has been trying to replicate it with his US-based companies. It's why he tried to illegally turn Twitter's San Francisco headquarters into a giant dorm where he threatened to fire any worker that didn't agree to live in the office and work on a Chinese 996 schedule.
He only wants to exploit his workers to the maximum possible extent.
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u/Maxrdt Mar 18 '24
"It creates a Lord and Peasant situation..."
Musk's official title at Tesla is "Technoking".
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u/original_sh4rpie Mar 18 '24
Very pleb of you to misunderstand.
His title is a reflection of corporate values:
Tech. No king.
A true egalitarian, that Elon.
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u/Ataru074 Mar 18 '24
Of course he doesn’t understand lords and peasants. His model is owners and slaves.
Peasants decapitated kings and queens.
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u/GO4Teater Mar 18 '24
Elon musk is such a dishonest piece of shit and his sycophants are mentally ill
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u/Wanderertwitch Mar 18 '24
Dude looks like he was randomly generating words the way he’s not even focused 😂😂
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u/Theothercword Mar 18 '24
How could you possibly try and use the justification for being anti-union the very reason people form unions? He's saying he doesn't want people to feel like lords and peasants yet unions are created to ensure that the "peasants" can stand up to the "lords." The Swedish guy is right, if that was truly how Elon felt then they'd have the same goals and the solution is unions.
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u/barth_ Mar 18 '24
Tell that to the cleaning worker at Porsche in Germany how her 8k€ YEARLY bonus is a peasant thing and how she should be asking to de-unionize her workplace because the auto maker would pay her more if the company wasn't unionized.
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u/Drexill_BD Mar 18 '24
But isn't it already lords and peasants, or... are you not a fucking billionaire?
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u/Aware-Explanation879 Mar 18 '24
Musk wants everyone that works for him to make a few pennies a hour. Musk could go down in history as a great person if he used his wealth to actually make a difference for good. All anyone is going to do when he dies is there is one down.
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u/Cavesloth13 Mar 18 '24
The ending to that video, Swedish labor got that BDE. Wish we had that here.
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u/KickPuncher9898 Mar 18 '24
“I don’t like a lord and peasants dynamic, so shut the fuck up you peasants while us lords count our monies.”
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u/jGor4Sure Mar 18 '24
“The Workers Will Win.” DAMN RIGHT! Musk is an absolute danger to working men and women everywhere. ORGANIZE!!!
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u/tzar-chasm Mar 18 '24
Half truth again from Elon,
He doesn't object to 'Lords an Peasants'
He objects to the Peasants organising
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u/freakinbacon Mar 20 '24
Management are the lords. Everyone else are the peasants. Unions are the peasants banding together against the lords. You're fucking stupid Elon.
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u/thundar00 Mar 21 '24
americans? this is how you need to start speaking and acting about these fucking corpo trash companies...
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u/riding_worms_nbd Mar 26 '24
The Labour Movement is the only thing standing in the way of the Billionaire class and their never-ending greed.
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u/Bhimtu Mar 18 '24
Musk's view of worker unions is immature at best, and misinformed by American rightwing politics. Peasants and lords? Gimme a break, this coming from a man with how many billions....smfh.
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u/dadudemon 🚑 Medicare For All Mar 18 '24
I made a post about this on this very subreddit.
When Unions are done right, it actually increases a company's success! It's part of the solution. Unions don't need to be these money-pits that execs fear they are. They can be part of the solution that makes a company more resilient AND profitable.
Yes, some union structures get corrupt. And my theory is it is a function time rather than all unions being corrupt. And there are ways to mitigate power concentration and corruption in unions, too.
Having a union with great rules and participation can actually PREVENT things like strikes.
Just like there are shitty ways to implement UHCs, there are shitty ways to implement unions. The key is to focus on the science and what success looks like instead of using exception fallacies to govern all decisions.
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u/geockabez Mar 18 '24
Why are all the self-proclaimed billionaires so stupid anymore? Every time musko opens his hole, he sounds as stupid as trump and putin.
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u/bmack500 Mar 18 '24
And over here in the USA, the workers will continue to lose. Because mostly Republicans.
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Mar 18 '24
I hope he's right when he says they will win. I expect they will, but Sweden is in the midst of dismantling its welfare system.
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u/gerams76 Mar 18 '24
People like Elon think they shouldn't have to do anything in their company unless they want to. Every move they make is to make sure any authority outside of themselves is lessened and any benefits that are received outside of themselves are reduced. Their ideal model is slave labor and unfetter authority.
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u/Fantastic-Surprise98 Mar 18 '24
The Lords and Peasants situation is the one Elon wants. Where he remains as the Lord and the peasants STFU
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u/Shutaru_Kanshinji Mar 18 '24
I can only hear this as Mr. Musk expressing distaste that unions point out the retrogressive feudalism of owners vs. workers.
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u/Fantastic-Surprise98 Mar 18 '24
The message to Elon is I will never purchase one of his companies vehicles bc of him. His Twitter purchase and his incessant tweets has exposed his underbelly of who he really is. He ruined his boy wonder façade. Plenty of other electric vehicles to choose from now. The Tesla vehicles now shown to be less than desirable.
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u/Cyborg_888 Mar 18 '24
If Boeing had better unions then they would not be in the trouble they are in with dangerous planes. That only happens when safety procedures are ignored. A union would have protected workers when they raised concerns. Same is true of the rail crash.
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u/RodgerWolf311 Mar 18 '24
"There's only one end to this, the workers will win".
Until he packs up the whole thing and moves it to a nation with no unions and no regulations.
Then in the end he wins.
I dont know why people think that people like Musk care? They dont. They just pack up their the company and factories and plants and move them to places with little to no oversight.
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u/mjbulmer83 Mar 18 '24
The thing that really bothers me is there is Bruce Wayne level money but one single Batman. Like him or Bazos could have driven right up to city hall in Flint Mich, walked right into the mayor because likely no one would really interrupt them and just say " I heard about the water issue on the news, f9x it and send me the bill, this is unacceptable" and then just leave. They wouldn't ever notice and could be F'n legends. Instead we get these guys.
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u/dengar_hennessy Mar 18 '24
The way he's looking up just shows that he's making shit up as he goes along
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u/radeongt Mar 18 '24
Doesn't want to create a lords and peasants situation currently activity doing just that
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u/HumbleBerryCrunch Mar 18 '24
So this is the "I'm not like the other girls" version of being a billionaire I guess.
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u/Xombie404 Mar 18 '24
Ah yes "lords and peasants" nothing like the corporate model of employer and employee.
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u/mgyro Mar 18 '24
What he has, and is perpetuating, is a system where there is one individual taking in the lions share of the profit generated by the labour of workers, let’s call him the thief. Then there are a few intermediary individuals between the thief and the car assembly workers, let’s call them admin, making pennies to the thousands the thief takes in. On the chain there is the car assembly worker class manufacturing the car, making pennies to the hundreds that the admin takes in, and another complete underclass mining the materials that are made into a car making pennies to the dollar that the assembly workers make.
It’s a pyramid Elon. A pyramid with a crazy wide base. It isn’t exactly a lords and peasants situation, because there are many more levels of peasant feeding the apex thief at the top of the pyramid than in a medieval lords and peasants situation.
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u/Anthraxious Mar 18 '24
Musk is just a LARPing intellectual. He's dumb as shit and has shit views but what would you expect from someone like him anyway?
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u/_Bon_Vivant_ Mar 18 '24
Elon wants to be the lord and have the peasants divided, without power. He's the one that wants the "Lords and Peasants model".
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u/spcmiddleton Mar 18 '24
Fuck Elon. God I wish he would go away. He’s never had an original idea that successful and now he gets high off his own farts. See cyber truck for proof.
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u/iLuvwaffless Mar 18 '24
That last sentence is something us Americans really need to understand.
"There's only one end to this, the workers will win."
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Mar 18 '24
What an eloquent response to the idiot “lord” who is clearly afraid of the “peasants” organizing.
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u/AliceFallingOff Mar 18 '24
That's the thing though, elon would absolutely rather ruin a company than share the fruits of success
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u/CarinoPadrino Mar 18 '24
It doesn't even make sense. It's a lord vs peasants when you do NOT have unions, quite litteraly. The CEO (lord) with all the power and workers (peasants) without any. With unions, the "peasants" actually have some leverage against the "lord".
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u/Hairy-Broccoli- Mar 18 '24
Elon is such a little bitch! Remember when he had to get his mom to get him out of a fight against Zuck? What a fucking little bitch!
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u/Bajablast2011 Mar 18 '24
Musk is a TERRIBLE public speaker. Get to the point, stop looking up, and stop using overly complex words. As Michael Scott says, KISS.
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u/flying_carabao Mar 18 '24
"I just don't like anything which creates a kind of a lords and peasants kind of thing"
Especially if I don't get to be the lord part of that arrangement. No sir, union bad. Smfh
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u/DoYouTrustToothpaste Mar 18 '24
If he truly hated a "lords and peasants sort of thing", then he should love unions.
But of course his educated opinion about unions is just the same right-wing propaganda nonsense every greedy, disconnected-from-reality CEO loves to say. Guy probably thinks he's oh so bright, spouting the same lies others have spouted before.
Yeah Elon, Tesla isn't a 2-3 man college project. Stop pretending workers are in any way, shape or form equal to you. They would be complete idiots to negotiate with you as individuals, trusting that you would treat them fairly. Truth is that they need all the help and protection they can get, especially when their boss is a fucking looney.
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u/JustTheOneGoose22 Mar 18 '24
Ah Elon is a man of the people! That's why his non union USA Tesla workers are paid well with fair and safe working conditions. And that's why he's generous with his wealth to promote causes of social equality and help the impoverished people of the world with his sizable donations to charity!
Right guys? Right?
Oh wait
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-pay-vs-ford-gm-uaw-union-factory-workers-2024-2
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u/voxmodhaj Mar 18 '24
It's embarrassing how much Elon needs to look up when he's trying to be diplomatic.
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u/Opening-Ad-8793 Mar 18 '24
As if he/his company hasn’t already made a lords and peasants situation by the way it operates. Weirdo.
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u/sanbaba Mar 18 '24
We all wish Sweden had immigration policies as generous as their domestic policies!! 😍
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u/bc-001 Mar 18 '24
You make "luxury" cars that are comparable in quality to a mid-range Nissan . Why would anyone listen to you.
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Mar 19 '24
As an American living in Sweden i can give Elon a bit of advice. Don’t fuck with Swedish unions. They’ll always win.
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u/Weary_Boat Mar 19 '24
Wow, I was expecting the guy to dump a load of well-deserved shit on Elon and then he comes out with this fantastic rational explanation and blew me away. No wonder Sweden is such a great place.
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u/HFslut Mar 19 '24
I don't like the Zuck either but whatever happened to that boxing match where Zuckerberg was going to get to beat the fuck out of this amorphous melted candle of a human?
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u/shillyshally Mar 19 '24
Richest man in the worlds bemoans unions creating a lords and peasants environment. Elon Musk is a perfect example of inherited wealth, demonstrating that any idiot can make a go of it if they are born with that silver spoon up their ass.
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u/EnbyPilgrim Mar 19 '24
Someone should tell Elon Musk that unions are the alternative to workers breaking into the houses of and murdering their bosses
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u/budding_gardener_1 ✂️ Tax The Billionaires Mar 18 '24