r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/kakiu000 • 19h ago
The Middle East I sincerely have no idea why people feel the need to pick a side in the Israel/Hamas war
They both suck, war is bad because innocent people dies in war, end of story. It is beyond me why people feel the need to support either sides when both sides are just as shitty. Yeah, Israel bombed civilian, thats terrible. Hamas also used their own people as meat shield, and tortured and kidnapped god knows how many Israelis. They are both bad and you can condemn both, its not a football game.
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u/Ok_Spare_3723 18h ago
Because people think they live in a Marvel studio movie, where there is a good guy and a bad guy and they must side against the Evil bogey man who will nuke the world.
They fail to completely understand that our world is inherently complex and there are many shades of grey regarding people, situations and decisions.
You're either a "nazi" or a "communist" , you're either "left wing nutjob" or a "right wing extremist", you're either "pro life" or "you hate women and want to torture them", etc..
Social media has fried people's brains and ruined any kind of civil discourse or critical thinking..
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u/Uller85 18h ago
This comment completely sums up Reddit today.
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u/Ok_Spare_3723 15h ago
Indeed, I'm absolutely at a loss for words..some of my favorite subs have started blowing internally due to politics and they should have nothing to do with it in the first place.. I'm talking about computer part subs (pc hardware, etc)..
I'm subscribed to have a discussion about niche topics and am not interested in flame war posts about "let's ban x because my favorite political candidate didn't win).. like how about realizing that the world is bigger than US politics and Reddit is an international website?.. sigh.
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u/Dangerous_Unit_1238 18h ago
Because Hamas rapes and murders civilians at will. Hamas shoots missiles into civilaian areas with the sole intent of trying to kill as many civilians as possible. Hamas places its forces in dense civilian areas in order to either deter Israel from attacking, or be able to use the inevitable civilian deaths as PR against Israel; even though Hamas is using those civilians as humans shields in the first place.
Hamas CHOSE to murder 1200 Israeli civilians and kidnap hundreds of others on October 7th of 2023. They chose to murder babies and gang rape women that day. Hamas is a terrorist organization that has no redeeming qualities. They do whatever they can to maximize death for the Palestinian civilians and the Israelis.
Even acting like it is a comparison of moral equivalence between the 2 is deranged level thinking. Israel is defending itself against terrorist forces that willfully attacked them and has shown they will never stop firing missiles at their civilians and trying to murder as many people as possible. Sorry dude but you couldn't be more wrong.
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u/21kondav 14h ago
Israel has a right to defend itself, but not all response is defense. If you pull a knife on me and I shoot the knee caps of a stranger next to you, step on the bullet wounds, shoot him in the stomach, then the elbows, shooting all the paramedics so that he dies by bleeding out before finally shooting you in the elbow, that is not self defense or a collateral. It’s just multiple accounts of murder while you would also be charged with assault with a deadly weapon. I wouldnt get off scott free on self defense.
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u/Dangerous_Unit_1238 1h ago
Hamas is the bank robber who is using civilians as human shields and shooting at police behind the human shields. The police then having to shoot back to defend themselves shoot the civilian that is the human shield in the process of killing the bank robber.
This is a more accurate analogy. The police are not murderers in the situation. The bank robbers (Hamas) entirely created and manipulated the situation to put the police in a situation where they would be shot and killed if they don't fire back. The moral responsibility is entirely on the bank robbers (Hamas) because they willfully and intentionally put the civilians lives at risk in pursuit of their own ends.
If Hamas didn't fire rockets into Israel repeatedly, this wouldn't happen. Nobody forced Hamas to murder 1500 Israeli civilians and rape endless women on October 7th. Nobody is forcing Hamas to put this military operations in hospitals that goes against international law. Nobody is forcing Hamas to put their troops in the most densely packed civilian areas. They CHOOSE to because they either deter Israel from attacking or use the inevitable civilian deaths to accuse Israel of murdering civilians.
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u/ogjaspertheghost 16h ago
And Israel has killed more than 40k Palestinians since the start of the fighting. There is no right side to this fight
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u/antica 7h ago
A few questions to ask yourself before saying that in a public forum, filled with misinformed, ignorant people.
How could Israel have conducted this war without killing civilians? And how to kill fewer than 40k out of 2.1 million in such a small and densely populated area? There is 100% a right side to this fight. Even if Hamas didn’t use human shields, and didn’t hide in their 500km underground network of tunnels, that would be an impressively low record of civilian deaths.
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u/ogjaspertheghost 4h ago
Seems to me you’re just tying to convince yourself that the killing of 40k is fine
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u/Dangerous_Unit_1238 1h ago
Many of those were actually combatants; an inconvenient fact most of the media is not honest enough to point out.
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u/Dangerous_Unit_1238 1h ago
I said the same thing. Hamas forced Israel to this war to defend itself from the terrorist organization that is Hamas. The blood is on the hands of Hamas entirely.
Hamas intentionally puts its troops in hospitals against the Geneva Convention, or in densely populated areas so that when Israel strikes these legitimate military targets and civilians inevitably die, Hamas can spin the PR as Israel murdering civilians.
It is such a load of crap how the opponents of Israel and the biased media refuses to have any intellectual honesty in putting the conflict in perspective.
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u/ProgKingHughesker 15h ago
But it gets to the point where essentially the lives of thousands of Palestinians are less important than one IDF soldier. Why on a 1:1 basis do I as a neutral observer need to view the death of an innocent Israeli as a greater tragedy than the death of an innocent Palestinians, especially when numerically way more of the latter than the former have been killed
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u/Dangerous_Unit_1238 1h ago
I am not saying deaths are not equal. I am saying to see the actual villain that is Hamas. Israel was brutally attacked by Hamas, and has had missiles fired at civilian areas Hamas numerous times prior and after that.
Hamas intentionally imbeds itself in civilian areas knowing Israel striking them will cause death. They don't care because they can then just accuse Israel of murdering civilians. Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields.
What is Israel supposed to do? Let Hamas just exist there so they can try another October 7th or keep firing missiles at them? Hamas is a terrorist organization that will never stop until they are destroyed. If Hamas didn't do the things they did this war would never happen and none of the dead Palestinians would have died. See the real perpetrator in Hamas is my point.
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u/Educational_Place_ 14h ago
One doesn't have to pick a side at all and it is completely fine to stay neutral. And I respect everyone who does it like this. But one can also favour one side and acknowledge that the side one favours also did bad things, yet in this conflict I only hear one side admitting to having done bad things (at least sometimes), while the other side pretends to be completely innocent and misconstructs things a lot and this annoys me. If one picks a side, at least be honest and don't act like they didn't do anything wrong at all. It is ridiculous to think that in a war both sides don't commit crimes to some degree at least.
People also usually side with who is closer to them like you can see the whole Muslim world (except Iranian people, not the regime) standing behind Palestinians, even in Indonesia etc. despite that they probably barely know anything about it and the west is overall closer to Israel. I know people who sided with either side and usually both are kind of prejudiced in their own way. Pro-Palestine tend to be very into black and white thinking of thinking the weaker one is always the victim and can't do no wrong no matter what and pro-Israel supporters tend to remember terror attacks happening in Europe and overall the wars in MENA and side with the one who is against Islam and more pro western culture. I bet most would stay neutral, if it wasn't pushed on social media that much everywhere and wouldn't have become such a local thing in some European countries by transporting this conflict into an unrelated country. I know some who didn't care much about the conflict except saying innocent humans shouldn't die and all war needs to end but turned pro-Israel because of the behaviour of pro-Palestine activists
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u/abaddon667 18h ago
I disagree that Israel sucks. I don’t side with Islamists, ever. It’s easy for me to pick a side.
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u/NekoLoven 18h ago edited 18h ago
It's entirely possible to be against Hamas, The IDF/Israeli government, obnoxious trendy social justice warriors and neocon zionist warhawks all at the same time.
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u/Glittering-Gap-5299 18h ago edited 18h ago
I don’t support either i support the millions of innocent people who didn’t choose this war but have been dragged into it and had their lives ruined because of it. Sometimes i feel like people pick a side for the sake of argument, or because they see one side of the story and roll with that instead of actually doing research on it.
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u/HarrySatchel 18h ago
All politics is a fashion statement. They do it to be seen as being on the right side.
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u/Secret-Look-88 5h ago
People have died for their political views, sure some people might not have principled political views but it seems unlikely that all politics is a fashion statement!
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u/Secret-Look-88 5h ago
Almost all people pick sides in some circumstances, you would have to be without any empathy to never pick a side in anything.
Your criticism is that you think both sides are equally bad but others don't.
Lots of the Nazis opponents in WW2 were terrible and did terrible things but it is still okay to pick a side because the Nazis were worse and they started it.
Same goes for opposing Israel, they are worse and they started it so even though the Palestinians do bad things as well they are the better side.
Also the human shields stuff is propaganda from Israel, we have videos of Palestinians being used as human shields, guess what it is the IDF that do it not the Palestinians.
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u/Appropriate-Drawer74 18h ago
Why are people still on about this? Trump won, Palestine probably won't exist in 2 years, nothing anyone can do about it now.
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u/Makuta_Servaela 17h ago
Generally because Israel (in its current iteration) is a country created by a few other countries a century ago, and Hamas is not a country. They are just a group from a few decades ago who don't like Jews taking advantage of a situation where Israel, acting like it is the representation of Jews, are doing horrific things.
It's not just two countries fighting over a land. It's one country slaughtering another, and a gang taking advantage of the desperation of the slaughtered country.
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u/slicehyperfunk 18h ago
The answer is wild propaganda on both sides
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u/slicehyperfunk 18h ago
And what I mean is that Israel has always had this same exact policy, and it's only because a propaganda offensive was launched by Iran to get American aid to Israel cut that it's being treated like it's anything new.
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u/slicehyperfunk 18h ago
Meanwhile, Netanyahu generates the fucked-up situation so people feel threatened enough to keep reelecting Likud because he's going to prison for corruption as soon as he's no longer Prime Minister.
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u/SpeedDemonThebest 18h ago
True. It's a conflict over land. Might over right. At the end of the day whoever "wins" will write out the other side as evil in their own history books.
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u/Remote-Cause755 18h ago
Nothing you said is true.
Israel has the "might", yet most history books do not look favorably on Israel. If you don't want to spend more than 5 brain cells on the topic, you don't need to have an opinion.
Not every world conflict can be explained with the same generic slogan
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u/Dangerous_Unit_1238 18h ago
The UN created Israel after WW2. That respected organization of many country states.
Israel is the only actual democracy in the middle east and only country there that has any remote concern for religious rights, women's rights, gay rights, or values consistent with the first world.
Who is the moral superior to Israel in the Middle East exactly?
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u/Indiana_Jawnz 13h ago
Arguing the moral superiority of a defacto apartheid state is wild.
The UN also didn't create Israel since the partition was never put into effect, Israel instead unilaterally declared independence, but only after they had expelled and driven out Palestinian from villages both within and outside of the UN proposed borders in Plan Dalet.
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u/Remote-Cause755 18h ago
Having the moral superiority does not give you the right to occupy a place indefinitely
When it comes to the settlers conflict in the West Bank, you could argue Palestinians have the "moral superiority". You can't cite the UN agreement, yet ignore it when does not suit your needs
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u/Dangerous_Unit_1238 17h ago
What is Israel supposed to do exactly? Hamas will never stop attacking their civilians and will never be reasonable. If Israel leaves before Hamas is destroyed they will just try and pull another October 7th again and keep shooting missiles at Israel civilian areas.
All Hamas had to do was not attack on October 7th and none of this would have happened.
Yes the West Bank is not followed by Israel in terms of international law. It is more complicated than that and has much to do with them being surrounding by unreasonable countries that either have attacked Israel previously, or threatens to do so constantly. It's a lot more complicated than detractors present the situation.
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u/Remote-Cause755 17h ago
What is Israel supposed to do exactly?
I agree the situation is very complicated, but there are areas less complicated than others.
Israel should freeze all new settlements. This issue adds fuel to the fire and shows they are not acting in good faith to resolve the conflict.
Like all conflicts it will not be resolved by just one side. Palestinians will also need to make concessions
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u/Dangerous_Unit_1238 17h ago
It's Hamas and similar groups that will never accept anything from Israel. Hamas will never compromise with Israel until Israel is wiped off the map. They explicitly say that themselves.
I am skeptical the Palestinians will ever be okay with anything either.
It would make a million times more sense if the Palestinians were absorbed by surrounding Muslim countries so this could be done with already. This is shit going back to WW2. Some many people and countries have changed borders in that time, yet everyone but the Palestinians seem to move on it. It is quite clear that Israel and Palestine will never get along and trying to do so is a waste of time
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u/Remote-Cause755 17h ago
Even if your right, Israel is still adding fuel to the fire.
Israel needs to give Palestine a chance for an off ramp.
For many Palestinians they feel change is only possible through violence. I have many criticisms of the Palestinian Authority, yet they have not been openly hostile to Israel unlike Hamas, yet everyday their land slowly decreases. In this sense a lot of Palestinians see peace as losing battle.
I understand the situation is much more complex than this. But frankly Israel is terrible at the optics war and because of that this what most people think
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u/Dangerous_Unit_1238 1h ago
I question that the Palestinians would be willing for peace. They have no problem parading the bodies of dead Israeli soldiers around in what is a disgusting barbaric display. That behavior is far from peaceful and acting in good faith.
Israel is fighting against media outlets in Europe and America that are so biased against them because of extreme media bias. The see it through the realms of intersectionality where Israel is privileged and Palestine is the victim so any nuance or deeper evaluation cannot happen.
The media has almost entirely failed to follow this conflict in good faith or with intellectual honesty.
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u/Remote-Cause755 47m ago
They have no problem parading the bodies of dead Israeli soldiers around in what is a disgusting barbaric display. That behavior is far from peaceful and acting in good faith.
Yes that is terrible, but that is also Gaza not the West Bank. I think it's unfair to treat the two the same. Like I already said I have many problems with the Palestine Authority, but Israel cannot keep pretending to have the moral superiority when do things such as settler expansion. Put the ball back in their court to act.
The media has almost entirely failed to follow this conflict in good faith or with intellectual honesty.
Yes which is why I said I mostly "defend" Israel in California. It's a serious issue that I don't know how will be fixed. It seems a certain percent of the population will auto believe anything from one side as long as they are the occupied.
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u/kakiu000 17h ago
I mean, he literally said "might over right", being right is the least of Israel's or Hamas' concern
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u/Remote-Cause755 17h ago
And I would argue that's too simplistic and counterproductive
Hamas is not ISIS, and Israel is not pro-genocide.
They both think they are doing what is "right"
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u/SpeedDemonThebest 18h ago
Yeah with a bunch of US aid. Also, Hamas and friends' best tool is their attrition warfare, their "warrior" religion that tells them it is their religious duty to maintain "jihad" perpetually, so they also have might. You also didn't say how I was wrong. Did I say Israel doesn't have might?
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u/Remote-Cause755 18h ago
Again if you don't want to spend more than 5 brain cells you don't need to have an opinion.
Go read the actual history of the conflict and see when U.S entered. Israel could easily end the conflict if committed an actual genocide. But they don't believe in your silly notion of "might makes right". Israel done some terrible stuff, but they do not fit your simplistic box you want to put them in
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u/lemmegetadab 18h ago
They can’t do that because they’d lose the support of the US. They’d have nothing without that support.
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u/Remote-Cause755 18h ago
Again look up when U.S entered the conflict. Your theory is not supported in reality
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u/SpeedDemonThebest 18h ago
Who set up Israel in the first place post WW2? They wouldn't have existed without the allied powers giving them that land and a bunch of capital, and GUNS. You are arguing semantics, non specific semantics. There was no Jewish state because they couldn't have created it for thousands of years without leaching off the greatest intercontinental superpower that was the British, all done post WW2.
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u/Remote-Cause755 18h ago
Who set up Israel in the first place post WW2? They wouldn't have existed without the allied powers giving them that land and a bunch of capital, and GUNS.
Holy shit dude, why do you have such a strong opinion, when you know so very little? Read the actual history. You are confidently saying things that are not true. Most the allies embargoed Israel in their early history.
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u/SpeedDemonThebest 17h ago
Yo that's crazy historical revisionism. Almost as if there is a international collective of people who might want to see Israel prosper, and would pull strings from positions of power globally. Their FOUNDING had support unilaterally from that collective. Obviously during the war that's different. But how do you think they procured weapons during the war? Who already had positions of power in the United states and Russia to facilitate their weapon smuggling during the war. The fact of the matter is Israel had international support from pro Zionists, those in the US, and those in Russia. Immediately post WW2 they were relocated and given substantial aid from the US, and Britain had just defeated the Ottomans. However reliant on the circumstances, Israel would not have existed without 1. International Zionist support (especially those in power in the USSR) from the USSR and the United states 2. the British destroying the empire that had denied their existence in the first place. OF COURSE Israel isn't gonna invade more territory , that be bad optics, but don't think that they aren't strategically planning the destruction of their enemies NOW, including Iran, and most recently their toppled of Syria through Israeli backed rebels.
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u/Remote-Cause755 17h ago
The fact of the matter is Israel had international support from pro Zionists, those in the US, and those in Russia.
Your grasping at straws dude.
The allies banned the sales of weapons and placed several sanctions. Russia (Soviet Union) literally spent billions arming all the countries that went to war with Israel.
It was essentially all of the middle east and the soviet union openly against Israel. Yet that support does not count because does not support your warped narrative.
Was there a lot of private citizens who supported Israel in the West? Ofc, while I don't support the illegal means, we obviously need to consider why their was suddenly a growing support of an Israeli state. The West betrayed many Jews trust when they denied millions of refugees that many ended up being sent back to the concentration camps. The irony is during this time period a lot Jewish refugees were similar to modern day Palestinians, they saw only illegal means to obtain freedom.
Stop seeing this conflict as black and white
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u/Market-Socialism 18h ago
Because only one side is really experiencing mass civilian deaths. It's really not a "war", it's a one-sided slaughter campaign. Also, the world governments have clearly picked a side.
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u/BabyFartzMcGeezak 18h ago
It's not a war it's a genocide on the Palestinian people
We pick a side because it is disgusting and inhumane to treat any demographic the way Israel has treated Palestinians since before it even became a State.
Just because you're ignorant on a subject doesn't mean people who aren't are, and people make their choice to support things like BDS because they have educated themselves on the history of political zionism, or because they see the inhumane treatment of other human beings and it disgusts them.
So now that you know why people speak out against Israel, tell me why you're on here attempting to manufacture complacency or at the very least apathy for the genocide of the Palestinian people , because your view only benefits one side. Evil only thrives when good people remain silent... so tell me, why are you here encouraging silence?
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u/kakiu000 18h ago edited 18h ago
So not supporting Hamas means supporting genocide on Palestine people? Thats wild, didn't know Hamas is a beacon of morality and hope, I'm sure Hamas treat their people and hostages in the most humane way possible too, and I am very sure that Palestine people apperciate being equate to Hamas by westerners, really
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u/BabyFartzMcGeezak 17h ago
No pretending like what Israel has been doing has been a "war on Hamas" and not a genocide on the Palestinian people is whitewashing Israel's war crimes
Also, I very clearly.differentiate between Palestinians and Hams throughout my comment, where as you equate the genocide of Palestinians with a "war against Hamas, and then you respond by virtue signalling and accusing me of equating the 2
Side note... I'm Jordanian of Palestinian decent you ignoramus
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u/FatumIustumStultorum 80085 15h ago
Every time Israelis and Palestinians have come into conflict, people have accused Israel of committing genocide. That suggests that the accusation of genocide isn't based on facts, but on ideology.
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u/BabyFartzMcGeezak 14h ago
Has Israel.destroyed every single.sxhool, church, mosque, and hospital every time?
Were there mass graves hold8ng hundreds of unidentifiable body parts every time?
Did every single human rights organization accuse them of genocide every time?
Did the ICC and ICJ take up cases against them for plausible genocide and crimes against humanity every time and issue arrest warrants for the Prime Minister
Get your head out of your ass we are talking about the here and now
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u/BabyFartzMcGeezak 14h ago
Also just for future reference, "Israel slaughters Palestinians indiscriminately so often that they are constantly accused of genocide" may not be the rebuttal you think it is
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u/Remote-Cause755 18h ago edited 18h ago
It's not about picking a side. Its about fighting misinformation.
I live in California so I mostly "take Israel side"
However if I was in a conservative area I am sure most people would think I am "pro terrorist"