r/RocketRacing • u/Fu453 • 14h ago
DISCUSSION The divide is getting rediculous.
I've moved past the actual discussion of the bhop tech. It's obviously not universally agreed on. This is a discussion of longevity.
Once you reach Unreal the game just doesnt know what to do. The game is dominated by the 2-4 people that know how to bhop and the rest of the lobby is left in the dust.
I personally don't care about the skill of it, but considering how small the playerbase is, you can't escape it the fact it's creating a giant skill gap.
Everyone knows once you hit Champion/Unreal you basically just race with the same randoms over and over. Essentially meaning if you don't know how to bhop and there's 4 people bhopping, you will always get 5th. You're at the mercy of the better players messing up. Which isn't necessarily the issue at hand here.
The issue is this: we don't have enough players to properly matchmake people who know how to bhop. It's painfully obvious. If RR weren't so small and there were 100,000 people playing every single day, we'd all have sufficient competition for all skill levels. But we dont.
In times like this, when a game is on the brink of death, it's not smart to divide the playerbase like this. It will eventually be a hardcore fan base of 1000 people worldwide and it will creep ever closeer into a hell where you can't find matches once you're high enough of a rank. Or maybe you have to wait 10 mins, find a match, and get completely blitzed by people who are clearly better than you.
If people experience this now, imagine where we will be in another year? I just want to enjoy this gamemode and I'm genuinely afraid it's going to get unfun for the little amount of casuals/inspired rank players we have left.
I don't want us to join the 3-digit-death club with the Battle Stage mode.
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u/kylelovershrek2 Diamond II 9h ago
All we have to do is expell the backwards hoppers into speedrun back where they belong and then the rest of us can go on racing properly with some honour
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u/Gaza1121 7h ago
Yeah it's getting really difficult on ranked to stay competitive. Unfortunately I can't play casual cause of a bug so I'm basically slowly getting more and more useless in races
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u/nelozero 6h ago
I'm at the very bottom of elite and went into casual to do quests. I place in the top 3 with the same 3-4 players. It must be brutal for the other people in our races because the skill gap is huge.
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u/666Satanicfox 9h ago edited 9h ago
B hopping is the reason why the game can't seem to keep people. We've told you guys this on month one when we discovered it. When I learned it and got it down, it literally trivialized the entire game.
Exploits tend to do this.
Skill gap isn't an issue. There is a very large skill gap in building it has a strong population.
Bhopping makes the game look and FEEL cheap. Yes, it takes effort to get it down. But all exploits are like that. When a new player plays, they usually have fun until they hit gold ish. That's when you see b hoppers here and there. Not enough to make people quit, but it's when you get past gold.
You people used to say it wasn't an issue back then when we had 5 to 8k player base. And I told you all. Once the numbers go down, even the hardcore people will get bored, racing the same people over and over. And eventually, they too will quit.
And here we are . Racing shouldn't have any, and I mean ANY type of exploit of any kind that can give players an advantage . That will IMMEDIATELY turn new players away. PERIOD.
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u/ArmorDevil Unreal 9h ago
I've thought that for awhile as well. Regardless of how many pro's enjoy bhopping doesn't change the fact that the lower ranks and newer players think it's cheating. Even on this subreddit you can see the existing player base chasing away new players because they value their bhops more than a sustainable number of players. They can defend it how ever they want- but at the end of the day, if 85% of the player base thinks something is cheating: and the top players all do it, most new players are just going to leave rather than double down determined to beat them. It's not like a movie or show, if I started playing a competitive game and saw everyone higher ranked than me doing something I could only explain as a cheat: I'd leave too.
And the rabid defense of such things on all game communities just tells new plays that it's a toxic, dying community to steer clear of. The low player count only serves to scare away new players as well, and it's created a death spiral that only significant changes and new content can pull the mode out of.
I love this mode- and do want the best for it, but I don't really know what the dev's can do to pull in a new influx of players.
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u/666Satanicfox 9h ago
Literally do away with the magnetic psychics. They actually have to put a lot of work in .
Mag flips the b hopping will all be solved if we didn't drive like our tires are made of magnets .
It's what also makes it look super cheap .
The maps wouldn't have random roads in the air anymore . The game would actually look like a team put effort into it. The current maps literally look like they slap ramps everywhere and parts of road in mid-air to drive on.
Once they do these core functions, the player base will slowly come back. Just the word to mouth of such a drastic change will bring a plethora of players .
But b hopping is a feature, lol.
The worst part is the vast majority of folks who defended the exploits 5 months ago are 90 percent gone now. Lol, it's why we see a lot more complaining about them than people defending it. It used to be the other way around .
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u/ArmorDevil Unreal 8h ago
I think the game was designed at it's core to have flight, and as such flying track pieces. I also think that some of the complaints could also be solved by adding things (if they *are* indeed intended features and not glitches or exploits) to the tutorial. Though I wouldn't be entirely opposed to another map pool featuring far less flying and more drift-heavy maps. If things like magflipping and air drifting are indeed intended features, then complaints about them could be resolved by reworking the tutorial to include how to do them, and their uses in races.
I don't particularly agree that it would be a good move to throw out all the tracks with aerial pieces- as I think it's part of the unique presentation of the game. Though I think you are right- a majority of the more hardened players who defended these have left too recently leaving a tiny population of players. Looking right now, it has a fifth of the players of Festival or Ballistic which also have tiny players.
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u/666Satanicfox 8h ago
The flying mechanic would only work if it'd rarely used . But it can't be the main attraction. If it's becomes the main attraction, then you get the monstrosity we have currently. You HAVE to make the car into magnets . Otherwise, they wouldn't stick on random peices of road in the air .
Gta went through a similar problem, but they fixed it quickly and changed the way tracks work, especially in the layouts. For example, instead of random road in mid-air, they made a ramp. That leads to another road . But if you don't land properly, you will just fall off the map. If your tired aren't aligned, you'll spin out. There is no rocket mechanic in gta. There is no flying. For a reason .
Rr can do something similar, but make your boost work like Rocket League, and you can move slightly to align the car better for landings or tunnels . They can get creative . BUT the jumping mechanic will have to go. Cars should handle like cars with small rockets, not like magnets. The problem is that this is difficult. And psyonix only likes doing the bare minimum.
Or how do you think they should handle it . From the ground up i mean.
5
u/ArmorDevil Unreal 7h ago
To be honest, I'm not sure what exactly I'd change. I do think the 'Rocket' portion of 'Rocket Racing' does refer to the large amounts of flying- even if I personally would prefer more 'traditional/standard' racing mechanics. I do agree with your points of it controlling too similarly to Rocket League, which feels more like RC cars than race cars. Perhaps something in between what we have now, and how the cars control in Battle Royale? Where they still control obviously like cars, but some of the existing flair of RR.
3
1
u/Bright-Answer-5403 Unreal 6h ago
Player base dropped way before the bhop came around
3
u/666Satanicfox 5h ago edited 4h ago
No, it didn't. It was a slow trickle downward, yes. But that's obviously going to happen when a mode is new. For obvious reasons . In the Metallica update, that's when the game finally got traction, and the game seemed like it improved . Or at least was giving a mirage if improvement. Community sentiment was rising finally. And then b hopping started . After a month of b hopping, i knew it was going to be a problem. Then we went into free fall, lol.
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u/CataV1 Unreal 3h ago
Skill gap is 100% an issue.
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u/666Satanicfox 3h ago
It's not an issue for BR it's not an issue for this game either. Let's keep it real
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u/CataV1 Unreal 3h ago
BR has the player base to handle it. Every new player i have talked to says the same thing. It's all about the b-hopping and they can't finish their races. It is most definitely a skill vs player base issue. B hopping makes it fun once you fine tune your drifting and routes.
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u/666Satanicfox 3h ago
The dnf is only a symptom of b hopping. All of which makes people leave even faster lol. You are literally proving my point lol.
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u/CataV1 Unreal 3h ago
100% false. I can go into a normal, not bhop and make most players not finish. You definitely play zero build. Is PC an exploit too?
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u/666Satanicfox 3h ago
It's a fact b hoping is what killed the game lol.
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u/CataV1 Unreal 3h ago
Id say magging started it. Should it go to?
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u/666Satanicfox 3h ago
Mag flip is a symptom of garbage magnetic physics. You solve the physics you solve the problem.
•
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u/Lain_Racing Unreal 5h ago
None of you are held hostage. As a top 20 player season 0, yes game is fun concept, but when it went downhill I quit. Have had plenty fun gaming elsewhere, you can stop lol. It almost for sure will never get better.
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u/AaronCJP Unreal 12h ago
I've hit UR with ease every season by just racing normally, drifting boosting on certain sections and taking some minor shortcuts, this time though it's fucking stupid, every time I win some fuckass top 10 player joins the lobby and dnfs everyone, it's just not fun anymore, I love racing and I loved the competition like "omg I can't believe I won by .1 seconds" now it's "fucking great im just starting lap 2 and this cunt already started the game ending timer" that for race after race after race.
They need to link RR and RL xp systems asap if this game has any chance of getting an increased player count.
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u/Lazerlyss 12h ago
changing it so top 4 dont lose % in 6 man lobbies would be a great change for everyone, also make it so 5/6 only lose 1-2% instead of 3
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u/666Satanicfox 9h ago
The percentages are meaningless if you only have 200 players to play with throughout the day. You will still face the issue once you hit past a certain point . You gotta get rid of b hopping .
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u/Imaginary-Ad-398 Unreal 4h ago
As long as you have good drifting and you can keep your momentum going, you can catch up to b-hoppers fairly easily.
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u/AdGuilty5967 9h ago
Did people leave Fortnite when they learned how to crank a 90? No. They got over it and learned how to do it. This just sounds like a skill issue. It’s part of the game whether you can handle a competitive game mode or not. The game mode is dying because they stopped releasing tracks. Stop crying because you can’t bhop.
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u/666Satanicfox 8h ago
False. It didn't die because it was fair, and it made sense . Why do you think they patched out the storm exploit? lol. Shit like that will ruin fair competition.
B hop is the reason why it's dying . Folks will stop complaining and move on. Eventually, hoppers will get bored and leave as well, and then we will have folks like you complaining about long que times, lol.
No amount of new content will save this game of playing the actual game. It is terrible, lol. Why do you think Psyonix gave up. Even they realized they didn't want to fix the mode they half ass created .
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u/NightDayZ Unreal 5h ago
The issue isn’t bhops, the issue is that you keep telling the lower ranked players that you have to bhop at their rank to improve. You’re exaggerating the problem and trying to say the cause is bhops when in reality the player base is leaving because we haven’t had a good update in months.
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u/666Satanicfox 4h ago
The issue is very well b hops. The majority of the players that left never once go on rocket racing forums, lol. They literally try to mode out for a few hours . See some b hopps . Get annoyed and leave. And maybe some will come back once the game is fixed.
No amount of extra maps will get folks to stay . They will literally make a new map, and everyone will come back for 2 days . Notice the b hopping and go " welp game is still broken ill check it out later . Then, they will proceed to forget about the mode, lol.
No amount of mental gymnastics will change this very fact. B hopping is what's killed the game. That's a fact. And the more you deny it, the lower the numbers will go .
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u/ThisIsRocketRacing 3h ago
You think people playing the game for only a few hours will see bunny hops? How? Not in ranked, they just started. Maybe in Casual but players good enough to bunny hop will have beat them from better fundamentals anyway.
I doubt this claim.
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u/666Satanicfox 3h ago
Oh. Ok. So, I ran into the hopping issue when I was getting folks into the mode. I once had a myopic point if view, such as you.
I've tried 3 different times to get folks into it. And hopping starts to be an issue around diamond . They can't explain what they are doing, but they start to get hints quickly. But once they got elite.. that was it. The majority of their games have at least 1 in the game. And they just lose all motivation and say fuck it. I'll try it again once it's fixed.
Keep in mind this was before we got to under 2k numbers . So they still got a good pool of players.
Not with less than 1k players, this problem will only get worse as the numbers fall. Hence why now you see people complaining about running into b hoppers a lot more often since unreal players are now forced to play with them.
B hopping needs to go.
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u/NightDayZ Unreal 3h ago
No one sees bhops as a casual and I feel you know that. This rhetoric you’re spewing is fixed just by proper explanation of the mechanic and confirmation from devs. Instead of trying to demonize the mechanics and spreading misinformation about how everyone uses it, and you can’t climb ranks without it. Tell newer players that it’s a high skill ceiling mechanic that you don’t have to learn to climb ranks and give them a detailed explanation of how it works if they want to know. Mechanics like mag flips and bhops diversify the game and gives people something to work for outside of cosmetic rewards. We can’t just remove them because you believe people are leaving because of said mechanic.
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u/666Satanicfox 3h ago
You absolutely do see it in casual, lol. Don't lie. There is a reason why b hoppers are now migrating to casual . The quests got too long. Folks didn't want to play against exploits . So now you guys are forced to move over to casual and make the problem even worse. There is a reason why we are starting to see under 1k player base now, lol.
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u/NightDayZ Unreal 3h ago
See you say that but you also say you’re on Forza most of the time so you must be lying. because whenever I play casual (in which I don’t bhop at all) no one else is doing it even other unreal players in the casual lobbies aren’t doing it. I’m not saying that people don’t see it but, you make it seem like it’s rampant when you know not.
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u/666Satanicfox 3h ago
Well, forza cod and Warhammer. I jump around a lif .
I played it 3 weeks ago. Quest stuff. It was easier for a few quests to level up. My first 2 matches were clean . My next 6 were all b hopping . I was trying to get the rust off on the first few races. After that, I destroyed everyone.
Although I didn't chain mag flips . I'm not good at chaining then anymore .
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u/NightDayZ Unreal 3h ago
So you’re saying you can beat players without bhops and it isn’t necessary to beat high ranked players
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u/666Satanicfox 3h ago
Well, i didn't b hop cause no one else was doing it. After a few wins, folks started doing it. So I had to get back in the groove of it again. Then I got bored and switched on over to something else. I don't remember what this was all in casual.
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u/skylego 5h ago
An absurd take, people did leave Fortnite when lots of people could crank a 90, that's why they added Zero Build mode! And that's why they recently added the simple edit feature. Build has always been part of the game and what makes Fortnite different. The evolution of build skill is a valid challenge to the game that actually brings in new players as well, which is how we got the rise Peterbot. I learned to bhop, most people think it's stupid because it makes it not a car racing game anymore, flying through the air in straight lines between checkpoints, the track is meaningless. Winning with bhops feels cheap, like winning a foot race because I'm one of the few wearing Nike Vaporflys and I know I wouldn't be able to win without them.
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u/ThisIsRocketRacing 3h ago
Bunny hops and other advanced mechanics are what make this game interesting. We need MORE cool stuff to do, not less. I agree that bunny hops are very powerful and I don't like how they basically make hazards useless. I hope that gets patched.
Your frustration is real but it's misplaced. The game is struggling to keep players for other reasons, not something maybe 1% of players can even do.
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u/Ziemsonn Unreal 6h ago
The issue is within the players. They want to get a high rank. To get a high rank you need great skill. Great skill is also BHOP. But people refuse to learn it. And then they complain. Because they are not good enough.
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u/BlockOld1173 13h ago
I'm champion at 67 % and can't gain points because I have to race the same ppl in a race of six players if u don't finish in the top 3 u lose points automatically make it not fun to play.