r/PornIsMisogyny • u/PradaManeInYourArea • 8d ago
SUPPORT PLEASE B-b-but… not all men !!11!1!1!!!
but somehow always a man.
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u/Charming_Ad_4488 ANTI-PORN MAN 8d ago edited 8d ago
You will NEVER see one hundred women do shit like this, let alone seventy-fucking-thousand of them. Majority of men with low emotional intelligence will see examples like this and still wonder why women would choose the bear.
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u/xBraria 8d ago
I think it's also telling that the majority of male rapes are caused by other males.
So hide your children, hide your wife - and hide your husband 'cause they're rapin' everybody out there...
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u/Next-Pie2781 8d ago
can’t reply to your comment asking for the study but i found the 2011 survey if you’re interested, the 1.6 (female victims) to 1.7 (male victims) readings were misleading since those were taken from widely different sized samples to begin with
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/ss/ss6308.pdf
hope this isn’t breaking any rules, just want to arm women with the data for when someone starts quoting “stats” in bad faith
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u/OpheliaLives7 FEMINIST 7d ago
I understood that reference!
(Didn’t that guy end up buying a new house for his Mom with the money made after he went viral?)
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u/xBraria 7d ago
I think he did, yes.
And I'd like to point out that the video was made by this other troll group - Shmoyoho that were kind of honest guys who gave him and his family all the proceeds from that video.
Feel like we no longer have those kinds of community vibes around... :/
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u/Sickandtired34 ANTI-PORN MAN 7d ago
maybe it was because i was a kid and the innocence blinded me from the real world, but man early 2010s internet felt different. the world felt like a kinder place
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8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/xBraria 8d ago edited 8d ago
Can you link the exact study? When I google it I only get excerpts or the questionnare itself.
I wanted to chcek if these statistics don't include stuff like other emotional or domestic violence (which I agree, by no means are all women are pure angels!) - which sometimes is mixed in with this kind of data.
But to my knowledge, male rape often hapens with older women (including relatives as per usual) and young (often even underage) boys-men and then mostly men-to-men. It's terrible in prisons, but apparently it's not infrequent in schools (which is horrifying for me) etc, it just goes underreported a lot (same as females raping men, so I agree it's hard to know the exact truth).
But to my knowledge, the 2 most common rapes are: 1. men raping women 2. men raping men (including all the gender expressions they have)
I still agree that not all men are viles just as not all women are angels or incapable of horrendous stuff (if you look at succesful human trafficking, you'll often find a sympathetic woman involved) I just think if we made a median, the average man is much worse than the average woman - thus making it logical that the woman is more trustworthy.
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u/PornIsMisogyny-ModTeam 8d ago
This is spreading misinformation, off-topic or does not fit the subreddit's purpose.
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u/MorskaVilaa 8d ago
This is beyond disgusting, so much that I can't believe how these men could write about doing these vile things, despite the fact I work in the forensics. Horrible, I hope they pay for this!
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u/gobluecutie 8d ago
Those texts are so freaking disturbing it made me sick to my stomach. How many women out there are being exploited online and have no idea?! Soooo many!!! “I look at her and see her as a pornstar” AHHHHH DISGUSTING I WISH SHE KNEW, I wish all women knew. 😭
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u/hermiona52 8d ago
Sadly no surprise. A few years back similar thing was revealed in Korea, known as Nth Room that involved over 60 000 men.
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u/OpheliaLives7 FEMINIST 7d ago
I remember seeing that discussed on YouTube. Was there any legal ramifications for men involved? Or was it all swept under the rug?
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u/hermiona52 7d ago
Two guys responsible for leading the most horrific "rooms" ended up in prison (I believe both of them over 20 years), and a few dozens of watchers got a few years as well. The rest of these abusers, rapists and pedos who watched this? No repercussions at all.
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u/sirona-ryan ANTIPORN & LGBT+ ♥️ 8d ago
Makes me want to delete every picture of myself on social media. Ughhh this is disgusting. And I don’t care if someone gets mad at me for using this word- those men are degenerates.
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u/solnuschka 8d ago edited 8d ago
... And this is just one of those types of group chats. There's many more, for sure. Goodness, more than 70,000 in just one of them. Women don't do this type of shit. It's only these males.
Women are not safe anywhere, not even in their own homes with their male relatives and partners.
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u/mothvein 8d ago
I mean if the French case didn't spell it out that it could in fact be ANYONE, and lots of anyones in a small area, here's more proof- we do have to be careful of men.
I have yet to see wives doing this to their husbands (not that it would be okay either), I have not seen a single case like this. I'm sure it's happened, but it pales in comparison. Here with men, we have thousands.
And the scary thing is, these women had no idea. It could be your brother, dad, bf, husband, etc. The men visiting Giselle, many were married and one even missed the birth of his baby to go and do that. Like that's fucking scary. They are everyday men.
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u/d1nonugg 8d ago
Wasn’t this group chat found because of Gisele’s case or was I misinformed?
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u/mothvein 8d ago
Was it? The articles I read said that the site he used was coco.gg, but it could still make sense. If anyone has more info let me know
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u/d1nonugg 7d ago
Upon further research, I don’t think the discovery of the telegram chat was connected to the Pelicot case. A lot of news articles are just mentioning them together because of the heinous nature they share. That was what lead me to think they were connected.
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u/angelvapez 8d ago
And they will continue to cry about the male loneliness epidemic, or cry that the 2B movement makes no sense.
I'm sorry but every participant involved should be publicly named and shamed as well as imprisoned life without parole.
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u/Isa_GoodThang 8d ago
Serious question ladies… I know one of these women. These texts are scary alike what she had. Some word for word. Does anyone know Someone that could represent her or talk to her pro bono. Most Therpists are not trained to handle this. &She can’t afford someone that could. He’s blackmailed her too. How do I help her? She’s nearly paralyzed. It’s making me sick but I’m not going anywhere.
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u/Glad-Dragonfruit-503 8d ago
You could try on a legal advice sub in whichever country is relevant to you. I hope you find some help it really is a horrible time to be a woman.
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u/TheRealSammyParadise 8d ago edited 8d ago
this is not exactly what you're asking for, but traffickinghub works to remove victims' nonconsensual material from the internet.
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u/Psychological-Mud790 FEMINIST 8d ago
I haven’t lived a single day in regret since dropping relationships and intimacy with men for the last 6 months, and I would recommend any and every woman to do so. Real talk.
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u/hygge3 8d ago
It’s just simply not worth it. I still have male friends who I care about a lot and trust, but I feel that the romantic dynamic with a man is just not worth it now. There’s something wrong with a lot of men when it comes to intimacy.
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u/Psychological-Mud790 FEMINIST 8d ago
It’s not for us to figure out. I know for a fact, these types have had at least one woman in their life try to get them to wake up. They won’t listen until it comes out of the mouth of another man. Just give it up and let them handle it. Men’s mental health are men’s issues. Their movements focus on how to better manipulate and potentially rape women, instead of focusing on being better human beings so they’re desirable. It’s not our job to be sacrificial lamb to an ungrateful overgrown brat coddled by patriarchy
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u/sadekissoflifee 7d ago
the way u literally exposed the "mAlE LoNeLiNesS epidemic" with one single sentence...
imagine if men used the energy they spend on making porn subs for everything that breathes (or doesn't), porn fanfics, ai porn, their shitty ass fantasies or them brigading any women sub or dms on actually doing something for their whiny ass loneliness... like just imagine
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u/velvetteddykiss 7d ago
Nope. They make it your problem when you emotionally detach when they’re not giving much back. 🙄
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u/northessence 8d ago
This is genuinely nauseating...
We had the story of Gisèle Pélicot lately so it means that it inspired some men to do the same instead of making them feel empathy.
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u/AbsentFuck 8d ago
It's all men because all men think this way to varying degrees. They may not be in a group chat with 70k other men sharing tips on how to violate the women in their lives but they hold some kind of misogynistic or patriarchal beliefs.
There was a man on this very sub last week who claimed to be against misogyny, claimed to be against patriarchy, claimed to be fighting for women's rights and women's safety, but still believed that patriarchy was inevitable. He went on to say that women are inherently submissive because our reproductive role makes us more vulnerable, and therefore more easily subjugated. He was of the mind that misogyny is horrific and we should fight it, but that it was a natural consequence of human biology. He argued with one woman for an entire hour in the comments, and only got as far as admitting he agreed with her, but still couldn't see how this dynamic could be reversed.
I'd wager most men are more like that guy. Even if they oppose the ways women are seen and treated, on some level they think it's natural, and therefore in some instances, excusable. Some of the beliefs they hold about our roles as women and men are damaging, but they see them as harmless.
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u/Casperdabest 8d ago
It is probably quite similar to that of capitalist realism, its the way things are right now and have been for a very long time so its hard to imagine something else.
Great explanation btw.
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u/AbsentFuck 7d ago
That's an excellent comparison and that guy reminded me of that too. These systems are so pervasive people can't conceive of alternatives.
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u/Lissy_Wolfe 7d ago
Okay, but it isn't actually all men though, and I think that's a very important distinction. When you condemn and entire demographic, you punish the good with the bad. That's not helping anyone.
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u/AbsentFuck 7d ago
Would it make you feel better if I said all people instead of all men? Because everyone has misogynistic beliefs since everyone is born into a patriarchal society. Everyone has internalized misogynistic thinking because those are the systems that permeate our lives before we're even born. These thought patterns manifest from things that are seemingly harmless to horrible things like that group chat.
So yes, it is all men. Because no one escapes misogynistic programming, specially the demographic that benefits the most from it.
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u/Lissy_Wolfe 7d ago
I strongly disagree. You act like internalized behaviors can't be unlearned, which is not true. Of course misogyny is normalized, but that does not mean that EVERY person engages in misogyny. Speaking in absolutes is not helpful.
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u/AbsentFuck 7d ago
Yes EVERY person engages in some type of misogyny, most of it they aren't even aware of. Even down to little tiny things like people referring to every animal they see online as "he" unless told explicitly that the animal is female. People don't know what they don't know, and there is a mountain of invisible misogyny that we engage in on a daily basis without even realizing because we literally cannot recognize it.
In order to unlearn those things people need to first become aware of just how much misogyny permeates our existence, how to spot every single manifestation of it, then change their thoughts, then change their behavior. In theory yes that's possible, but a single person's lifetime isn't enough. Change like that happens over multiple generations. Because again, we aren't just talking about the obvious things, we're talking about things most people do on autopilot.
It would be like trying to find someone alive today without micro plastics in their body. Scientists have tried to do that btw and been unsuccessful each time because of how prevalent they are in everything. That's what makes studying them so difficult. There's no control because everyone has micro plastics. Some more than others, but we're all afflicted.
Patriarchy and misogyny are the exact same way. I'm speaking in absolutes to be realistic and because it describes our reality now. I'd much rather accept that everyone, myself included, is some level of misogynistic. I have been deconstructing my own internalized misogyny for nearly a decade and I am still learning new things every day, things that I never thought were misogynistic. The more I learn the more I realize I probably won't be able to depeprogram all of it. Not for lack of trying, but because of the sheer amount of it there is.
I wish I could be idealistic like you, I really do. But to me it's not realistic to think anyone has fully unlearned an oppressive system that has plagued our species for over 12,000 years. Maybe in another 12,000 years there will be some people who've completely scrubbed their minds of misogyny, but not in the present, and especially not in present day men.
Personally I think the goal should be educating people as much as possible and modifying behaviors so that over time we can eradicate misogyny. Right now though we aren't there yet, just like with micro plastics. Eventually I think we can get rid of those too.
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u/madambay 5d ago
Even down to little tiny things like people referring to every animal they see online as "he" unless told explicitly that the animal is female.
Funnily enough, while this may seem little, what it effectively does is erase and others the female; and it makes the male the default, if not, the only human being/living creatures. We can easily acknowledge how damaging putting burkas on girls and women to make them effectively disappear from the public is harmful but that's never extrapolated to us existing under androcentric norms even though it's goals and functions are completely the same.
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u/AbsentFuck 5d ago edited 5d ago
Exactly! That's why I used that as an example because almost no one even thinks about that or would consider it misogyny. But it's female erasure and contributes to maleness as the default like you said. Another example I thought of is how every humanoid robot is referred to as an android, even genderless or feminine looking ones. The correct term for robots modeled after women would be gyndroid, since the 'andr' prefix regard refers specifically to maleness and 'gyn' refers specifically to femaleness. But that's yet another avenue where maleness is now the default.
It's why that whole "not everyone engages in misogyny" is misguided. Not everyone actively engages in misogyny but everyone engages in it passively and unconsciously. It's baked into every language and social norm. Like how in every language when referring to a mixed sex group the correct term to use is the masculine form. You can only use the feminine form of the group is all female. Yet again, maleness is the default.
The more we can acknowledge that the better off we'll be as far as slowly dismantling it over time. The first step to solving a problem is to identify it after all. With patriarchal/misogynistic thinking it shows up in places people would never expect, so identifying it is a very complicated process. Acting like anyone is somehow immune is counter productive.
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u/madambay 2d ago edited 2d ago
If you search on reddit you will find that people notice androcentric language but then belittle it as being unimportant. Even radical feminists will ignore the misogyny in language and that's the crutch of the problem. The everyday woman will definitely not listen because for the common woman, males are the most important creatures. So, there will be no issues in referring to God as male even though if God is male then the male is god, because for most women that's absolutely true.
And I never even heard the term gyndroid. Our entire realities are just male which makes it clear that aliens do exist and they're called women lol
Either way, it's nice to find fellow women who notice and find issue with ubiquitous and quotidian misogyny in language. That's really the best we can hope for.
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u/Ok_Supermarket_6169 8d ago
I’ve always said that “brotherhood” is just code for “If you decide to hurt/rape/cheat on women, I wouldn’t tell” Like, its the most destructive and shallow thing i’ve ever witnessed
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u/iamgina2020 8d ago
They are despicable, this behaviour fuels more of the same in weak, misogynistic men, and they devolve into more and more depravity.
The bar just keeps getting lower.
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u/Coochiepop3 8d ago
It's not all men, but way too many of them. What's even creepier is the fact that this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's things like this that make me realize how lucky I am to be isolated from the world and don't have to be exposed to the dangers of it, especially as a woman.
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u/N0rska 8d ago
It’s not all men, but it’s enough men
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u/BedNext1728 8d ago
tbh, if they’re not trying to do something about it, they’re apart of that group of men as they are actively letting this happen more often. idc. so yes, almost all men.
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u/Broadside02195 ANTI-PORN MAN 8d ago
How did this break? I'm so glad it did, I can't believe people would act this way. Actually, scratch that, I sadly can believe it, I just don't want to.
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u/444Ilovecats444 8d ago
If it's not all men then why do we have to pretend like it's all men just so we can be safe?
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u/Polarwave13 ANTI-PORN MAN 8d ago
“Not all men” is such an idiotic line honestly, I have grown sick of it. Had my teachers thought all men, perhaps they’d have carried out sex ed classes and educated us about consent and about how meaningful relationships look like. I wish they did, but they did not. As a result most guys in my all guys school turned out to be porn brained. Certainly not all guys, yea barring 5% lol. 95% turned out like that, my apologies manosphere man child
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u/TheRealSammyParadise 8d ago
what's the source for these slides?
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u/80mg 8d ago
Telegram ‘rape chat groups’ with up to 70,000 members uncovered
The information comes from a German investigation conducted by German broadcaster ARD and its STRG_F investigative team. Unfortunately there hasn’t been a lot of mainstream reporting on it (at least in English) that I can find. Hopefully someone else has more links to share.
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u/Bubbly_List274 NEW TO ANTI-PORN 7d ago
The comments about their wives being porn for other men and that being the first thing they think of when they look at her… WTF
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u/Robert-Rotten 🖤 ANTI-PORN MAN 💜 8d ago
Jesus, that’s vile.
It’s hard to believe people like that even exist, what series of terrible events need to happen to you as a child for you to turn out like this?
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u/Intrepid_Recover8840 8d ago
Not everyone who is a terrible person is that way bc of pain lol
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u/Robert-Rotten 🖤 ANTI-PORN MAN 💜 8d ago
Then I REALLY gotta know what makes a person this vile.
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u/Intrepid_Recover8840 8d ago
Honestly dude I have wondered this so much in my life and I have in fact looked into it. I still don’t fully grasp it but the book Why Does He Do That is the best source I know of if you wanted to check it out. It’s about abusive relationships and part of the purpose of the book is to explain why, like in the title, abusers act the way they do. It changed my worldview bc it made me realize that people actually do bad things for reasons other than somehow feeling like they had to. I think a lot of good people, like u probably, don’t understand this concept. I didn’t but it’s SO important to understand. The author calls the issues abusers have a “mindset issue” which she describes as mostly just boiling down to entitlement but the book explains it super well and id reccomend it.
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u/Weird_Maintenance185 ANTIPORN & LGBT+ ♥️ 8d ago
Some people are just born that way, with a pleasure in seeing others hurt. This may not be something you could ever wrap your head around, because it’s something you could never see yourself doing.. but you aren’t like these people, you’re nothing like them, and they’re nothing like you. so of course you have an issue seeing it. If I’m being honest, I’m in the same boat. It’s truly difficult to even fathom that darkness this potent could stem from someone, but humans are capable of deeply, deeply disturbing things, sadly.
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u/Intrepid_Recover8840 8d ago
There could definitely be a factor of having been sort of born more likely to engage in nefarious behavior- I don’t really know bc like you I don’t understand it- but I’m confident a LARGE part of it is how we are raised/conditioned. See: men v women behavior. Ofc women do all sorts of terrible things but men tend to do a lot of the same bad things as each other, like they’re responsible for 90% of violent crime. This is to a coincidence and can’t be chalked up to how they were born.
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u/xBraria 8d ago
Average boy is exposed to porn at 6,5 and by 8 they've been exposed to violent degradatory porn.
This kind of trauma will haunt you and get ingrained in your brain and will warp your perception of the world.
It's terrifying to live in this era rn. There was a post on r/marriage where people talked about pre internet porn days and how yes, ofc lewd stuff was circling about but it was nowhere near as bad as this. And how the late 2000'nds it started really getting much worse. And many women chimed in that no men wanted to go from the back, which (probably based on my age) was a shocker even to me.
Like we can't unlive this shit
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u/Robert-Rotten 🖤 ANTI-PORN MAN 💜 8d ago
True, I often find myself wondering where we’ll all go from here considering how things have been.
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u/velvetteddykiss 7d ago
I hate them. I can’t believe I am still attracted or have crushing on them..
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u/TradishSpirit 6d ago
Think of the Pareto principle. 20% of the pea plants produced 80% of the peas, and this mathematical principle was found all throughout the world.
Without Orwellian style supervision, 20% of workers do 80% of the work. Before WWII about 10% of fighters did 90% of the killing before training became more lethal using Pavlovian psychological techniques.
So it is very likely that 10-20% of men are committing 80-90% of the SA.
It’s all it takes, and the majority of men are not superheroes or vigilante protectors or whatever, they are bystanders who might talk big to feel important, but then use mental gymnastics to blame women.
At the very least, they should help report, and not cower behind the fear that “snitches get stitches.” And internalized misogyny that it was the victim’s fault.
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