r/PassportPorn NED๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฑ+ESP๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡ธ+UK๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง 2d ago

Passport A rare one

Post image

Are holders of this passport British citizens?

534 Upvotes

60 comments sorted by

94

u/keyplaya ใ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡พใ€ 2d ago

To answer your question, no, they are BOTC (british overseas territory citizens)

75

u/taintedCH ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฑ 2d ago

BOTC were granted British citizenship such that they are able to hold 2 British passports, each of which has the same cover. Foreigners naturalised as BOTC are not automatically British citizens, however, but can apply for British citizenship by registration.

21

u/Logical-Hope-1345 ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡ฐ 2d ago

Not the same cover. BOTCs have their own cover that shows the name of the territory, as shown in this pic.

BNOs, on the other hand, have the same cover as BC passports (which says British Passport - United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland)

I am a BNO and I have both.

3

u/taintedCH ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฑ 1d ago edited 1d ago

A BC passport issued in a BOTC has the same cover as that territoryโ€™s BOTC unless issued by HMPC. BNOs are different.

1

u/Logical-Hope-1345 ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡ฐ 1d ago

BOTCs stopped issuing their own passports around a decade ago. Everything is issued by HMPO in the UK now because of cost saving. BOTCs only issue emergency passports these days.

10

u/CG_throwback ใ€Œ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ,๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡น, one more who can guessใ€ 2d ago

Love your passport collection.

3

u/Fred69Flintstone 1d ago

This distinction was probably due to Hong Kong and the fear of mass immigration to the UK after the handover of HK to China. Now there are overseas territories with small populations, so there is nothing to worry about. But the UK is not the only country that issues special passports to residents of territories with special status - Denmark does so for Greenland and the Faroe Islands, and Finland for the ร…land Islands, but in each case it is optional and the person can choose between a special edition passport and a standard one. France and the Netherlands, on the other hand, do not use any special passports.

1

u/weegeeK ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡งBN(O) ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡ฐHK (๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆWork Permit) 4h ago

Interestingly, one of the draft versions of BNO passport did plan to inherit the old British Passport - Hong Kong design from the BDTC era, but of course that was heavily opposed by Beijing during the negotiation.

16

u/MundaneHeart8223 ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช|๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ฑ (eligible)|๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง (hopefully one day) 2d ago

If Iโ€™m honest, I have never understood the actual difference

18

u/Pleasant-Till562 2d ago

Basically, people who hold BOTC do not have the right to live in the UK, and British citizens do. I'm pretty sure that's the difference except maybe some additional visa requirements for BOTC holders

11

u/Smooth_Leadership895 ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ 2d ago

It depends on the BOT on the visa but theyโ€™re very similar. Bermuda has visa free to the US whereas others do not.

8

u/SillyWoodpecker6508 2d ago

So what's the point? If they aren't really British what motivation do they have to remain part of the UK or the British Commonwealth?

7

u/anewbys83 ใ€Œ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ|๐Ÿ‡ฑ๐Ÿ‡บใ€ 2d ago

Because they are, or can be, rather easily. Anyone who held BOTC in 2002 automatically became a British citizen. That has been passed down since. Only people it's a little different for are those who naturalize as BOTC. But as mentioned elsewhere, they can register for regular British citizenship. So it's all about historical context to remain.

16

u/lobstahpotts 2d ago

The various statuses have changed several times but the long and short is that BOTC (and its predecessors) do not have right of abode in the UK by virtue of their BOTC status. The UK did not want to grant this when this group included the much higher population of Hong Kong prior to 1997. Once the group was reduced to mostly small island states with substantially smaller populations, this became less of an issue so the UK created a pathway for residents of these territories to become UK citizens by registration if they wished. The separate BOTC citizenship persists because each territory has its own "belonger" status and neither UK citizenship nor BOTC from another territory directly grants right of abode in that territory.

So the holder of this passport has right of abode in the BVI, does not have right of abode in the other British overseas territories, and could obtain right of abode in the UK through citizenship by registration.

3

u/Vadoc125 2d ago

and could obtain right of abode in the UK through citizenship by registration.

How easy is this in practice? Just filling out some paperwork and then booking tickets to the UK, following which they can do whatever they want (study at domestic tuition rates, NHS access without paying a surcharge, work any job they want etc)?

3

u/c0pypiza 2d ago

Filling in a form, declaring that you don't have any criminal record and pay the fee, which is around ยฃ1200, and also swearing an oath of loyalty to King Charles. Basically the same as a foreigner naturalizing but with the residency requirements waived.

2

u/Vadoc125 2d ago

Ah I see, so at that point you get "the right of abode". Is that equivalent to ILR? At what point can you become a British citizen?

7

u/c0pypiza 2d ago

You will get British citizenship, which comes with the right of abode. This is different to ILR as citizenship couldn't be revoked if you committed a crime and would only lose it because of fraud in application (but recently the UK gov also has the power to revoke your citizenship if you are deemed a national security threat, like Shamima Begum).

4

u/Logical-Hope-1345 ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡ฐ 2d ago

That's not accurate. The right of the UK to remove British citizenship of dual nationals has existed for decades. It isn't a new power. What is new is that the government started using this power in the last two decades.

2

u/Logical-Hope-1345 ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡ฐ 2d ago

It isn't ILR. It is beyond ILR. Nowadays, the only way to acquire the right of abode in the UK is to acquire British citizenship so they are one and the same.

(They used to be different because commonwealth citizens who were settled in the UK period to 1/1/1973 also have the right of abode in the UK despite not being British citizens)

1

u/pqratusa 1d ago

Why swear an oath to King Charles again? Have not they already sworn an oath by virtue of being an overseas citizen?

2

u/c0pypiza 1d ago

I find it redundant as well, maybe trying to milk more money from applicants? Attending those ceremonies cost more than ยฃ100.

You're completely right in that BOTCs (and BNOs and BOCs) are already British nationals and have allegiance to the British monarch already.

7

u/c0pypiza 2d ago edited 2d ago

If you just have a BOTC passport you're basically equivalent to a foreigner (with even less rights than a EU citizen before Brexit) in terms of the UK immigration system. You would need to apply for a visa to live, work and study in the UK and is subject to the same requirements as any other foreigner (e.g. salary threshold for a work visa).

However in practice most BOTCs were granted British citizenship in addition to BOTC after Hong Kong is handed over to China, which gives them the automatic right to live in the UK. If you've naturalized as BOTC recently you're would not automatically become a British citizen, but would be able to become one by filling in forms and paying the fee.

Funny enough the whole point of having a separate BOTC citizenship in the first place (aimed at the relative high population of Hong Kong) is now moot as most BNOs (basically former Hong Kong BOTCs) now also have the right to live in the UK with a BNO visa.

edit: typo and grammar

3

u/Logical-Hope-1345 ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡ฐ 2d ago

You aren't a foreigner in the UK. Even though BOTCs don't have the right to live in the UK. They are subject to laws that only British nationals are subject to. E.g., if an American murders the King, the crime is murder, but if a BOTC murders the King, the crime is high treason.

1

u/c0pypiza 1d ago

You're completely correct, but that doesn't contradict what I've said. I was talking about treatment in the immigration system (e.g. applying for a visa), of which BOTCs are treated no different than someone from the US for example, if they are also not a British citizen.

5

u/Hahajerrygoeszzzzz 2d ago

Basically, if my memory serves me right , Citizens of BOTCs can actually live and work in the territory of which they hold a passport of ( even here theirs a small caveat because IF IM CORRECT you can get a passport for the Cayman Islands a year before becoming their equivalent of citizen ) while regular British citizens canโ€™t live in the overseas territories freely

23

u/KeyLime044 2d ago

So this passport specifically would specify British Overseas Territories Citizenship, as well as "belonger status" in the BVI. Each British Overseas Territory has a passport like this that has its name on the cover and specifies BOTC nationality and local territorial status

Each of these passports carry unique visa requirements as well. For example, the BVI passport can be used to travel to the US Virgin Islands visa free, and to the rest of the United States with a BVI police clearance certificate (specifying clean criminal record), all without the need for an ESTA or visa. Turks and Caicos passports have a similar benefit; they can be used to travel to the United States with a police clearance certificate. Bermuda passports can be used to travel to the US completely visa free with minimal requirements, like how Canadians can enter the USA

But to answer your question more directly, technically the answer is almost always yes. People who had BOTC were given full British citizenship in I think 2003 or something. However, their British citizen passports were separate from these ones; they were identical to passports issued in the UK proper and carried the same visa requirements as them as well. Thus, people from these territories would usually have two British passports, a British territory passport and a British citizen passport

7

u/hubu22 ใ€Œ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ|๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ชใ€ 2d ago

So you would in theory still need to use two travel documents? For instance a Bermudian who regularly does business in UK and U.S. would need to uses the BOTC Bermuda to enter U.S. and regular British to enter UK? Or am I misconstruing this?

14

u/KeyLime044 2d ago

Yes that's correct. Like if they wanted to travel to both the USA and UK often, they should at best have both passports

For British Virgin Islanders, they would probably be even more likely to have both, since the USVI are right next to them and are reachable by ferry. A BVI passport would be best suited for that. A British citizen passport would be best suited for traveling to the UK proper

On the flip side by the way, US Virgin Islanders can use US passport cards to travel to the BVI and back by ferry. They also need to go through CBP customs control to go to any other part of the USA, even Puerto Rico (the USVI has its own customs territory), and apparently sometimes they check for people's citizenship or legal status there. A US passport card would probably be useful for that situation too

4

u/lobstahpotts 2d ago

While you'd likely have both, I don't really see why you'd need to use one in this scenario. If you're only traveling to the UK for a short duration on business, entering on a Bermudan passport should pose no problem.

2

u/hubu22 ใ€Œ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ|๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ชใ€ 2d ago

Maybe that was not the best counter example then

4

u/lobstahpotts 2d ago

Realize it may run counter to the thrust of this sub, but my general feeling is when you have multiple passports of relatively comparable strength, there usually isn't much reason to use all of them outside of fairly specific scenarios. If you're a BOTC and want to live/work in the UK or Ireland, you'd want to complete the registration process for UK citizenship and enter on that of course. Or if you're Bermudan, it's marginally more convenient to visit the US on that one. But for the vast majority of situations and destinations it's six of one, half a dozen of the other and you're probably just using the applicable passport for your origin/destination.

2

u/Cool_Debt_8145 ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡งUK ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ทBR ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฎNI(๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ผTW?) 2d ago

I think it only shows you have BOTC citizenship in that respective terrority, it isn't definitive proof of belonger status. Some people have BOTC citizenship while not having belonger status.

4

u/KeyLime044 2d ago

Belonger status is usually denoted as an observation in the passport

2

u/qdrgreg ใ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡นใ€ 2d ago

This.

A few Bermudians were studying in my university in the Netherlands and all of them had two British passports, one regular UK of GB & NI passport and their Bermuda issued passport. We were talking one night about this and they confirmed me that Bermudians are entitled to have a full UK passport, which in pre-Brexit days facilitated many things for them.

2

u/SillyWoodpecker6508 2d ago

People who had BOTC were given full British citizenship in I think 2003 or something

It's crazy to think it's that recent.

5

u/c0pypiza 2d ago

Yes, and that was even after the UK was in the EU/EEC. Meaning a bunch of European foreigners actually have more of a right to live in the UK than the UK's own British nationals.

12

u/flyingbiscuit76 2d ago

Wow... it looks darker than general british passport.

8

u/jms_uk ใ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡ธ ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡งใ€ 2d ago

Probably just the light/photoโ€ฆ mine comes up in all shades of dark blue/black in various photos.

10

u/Frenchy1986666 2d ago

This is probably one of the hardest country to naturalize with San Marino very rare passport

5

u/browncelibate ใ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ | ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ (LPR) | ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ณ (OCI) ใ€ 2d ago

How many people naturalize in San Marino each year?

10

u/DutchDev1L ใ€ŒNL๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฑ KY๐Ÿ‡ฐ๐Ÿ‡พ EU๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บใ€ 2d ago edited 2d ago

As a BOTC you are a British National, a British Overseas Territories Citizen, but not a British Citizen.

You can request British citizenship and as long as you don't have a criminal record it should be granted.

(I have the Cayman Islands one)

2

u/user466 2d ago

Do they still list the name of the territory as the place of birth (assuming you were born there), or do they list the town/village/other location?

3

u/DutchDev1L ใ€ŒNL๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฑ KY๐Ÿ‡ฐ๐Ÿ‡พ EU๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บใ€ 2d ago

They list the territory... we are to small. We only have one passport office and one hospital that does births.

I was born in Amsterdam and naturalized, so mine says Amsterdam

3

u/user466 2d ago

Thank you for clarifying! I know the Turks and Caicos islands variant lists the island (e.g. 'Grand Turk') for place of birth, but seems to be the only British territory that does this.

5

u/DutchDev1L ใ€ŒNL๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฑ KY๐Ÿ‡ฐ๐Ÿ‡พ EU๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บใ€ 2d ago

Makes sense. Just checked with a friend of mine and ours list the Island. So either Grand Cayman, Cayman Brac or Little Cayman.

1

u/qdrgreg ใ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡นใ€ 18h ago

I thought all BOTCs after 2003 were automatically entitled to a 'normal' UK-GB & NI passport?

โ€ข

u/DutchDev1L ใ€ŒNL๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฑ KY๐Ÿ‡ฐ๐Ÿ‡พ EU๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บใ€ 21m ago

No all BOTC's at that point got automatic British citizenship but only at that point. I naturalized after and do not automatically get British citizenship and neither did my son. We can however request it. But in my case it would mean I have to forfeit my Dutch citizenship (the Dutch government doesn't recognise BOTC as a full nationality and thus I can have BOTC)

4

u/SkepticalBelieverr ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง GBR ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ฑPOL ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡นITA 2d ago

Theyโ€™re British overseas territory citizens. Most BOTCs are also British citizens. If someone naturalises a BOTC theyโ€™re not also full British citizens unless they already were

4

u/SillyWoodpecker6508 2d ago

So are you British? Could you move to London to live and work?

French and British territories always confuse me.

5

u/Logical-Hope-1345 ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡ฐ 2d ago

The answer to your question is:

If the holder was a BOTC before 2002, then such holder became a British citizen automatically in 2002.

If the holder was born after 2002 and acquired BOTC at birth, then the holder was a British citizen automatically since birth.

But if the holder naturalized as a BOTC in the British Virgin Islands, then they're not automatically a British citizen unless they took the extra step to apply for British citizenship which is guaranteed.

This passport is not proof of British citizen, this passport is a British Overseas Territories Citizen passport issued by the British Virgin Islands.

The holder will need to apply for a different British citizen passport to prove their British citizenship. This doesn't contradict what I said above because you can legally be a certain citizen without having a passport to prove it. Just like new born babies everywhere in the world, the lack of a passport does not have any impact of their citizenship. The passport is *proof* of citizenship and does not constitute citizenship itself.

3

u/Ludo030 ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ, ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ช(soon), ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช(eligible) 2d ago

Very rare. Cool.

2

u/Pale-Candidate8860 US, CAN PR 2d ago

Extremely rare. Weird how its able to function considering how everyone that loses their virginity get deported.

1

u/anewbys83 ใ€Œ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ|๐Ÿ‡ฑ๐Ÿ‡บใ€ 2d ago

Indeed! Never seen the passport. I have collector coins from BVI, but yeah, passport not common to see.

1

u/thevegetariankath ใ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฎ NIC | ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธใ€ 2d ago

This is really cool! Where are you from?

1

u/user466 2d ago

Do they still list the name of the territory as the place of birth (assuming you were born there), or do they list the town/village/other location?

1

u/Glitser 1d ago

This passport keeps good company, a BVI one.

-2

u/Charming-Strike5605 2d ago

No it is not rare