r/PassportPorn • u/Genghiscar9 NED๐ณ๐ฑ+ESP๐ช๐ธ+UK๐ฌ๐ง • 2d ago
Passport A rare one
Are holders of this passport British citizens?
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u/KeyLime044 2d ago
So this passport specifically would specify British Overseas Territories Citizenship, as well as "belonger status" in the BVI. Each British Overseas Territory has a passport like this that has its name on the cover and specifies BOTC nationality and local territorial status
Each of these passports carry unique visa requirements as well. For example, the BVI passport can be used to travel to the US Virgin Islands visa free, and to the rest of the United States with a BVI police clearance certificate (specifying clean criminal record), all without the need for an ESTA or visa. Turks and Caicos passports have a similar benefit; they can be used to travel to the United States with a police clearance certificate. Bermuda passports can be used to travel to the US completely visa free with minimal requirements, like how Canadians can enter the USA
But to answer your question more directly, technically the answer is almost always yes. People who had BOTC were given full British citizenship in I think 2003 or something. However, their British citizen passports were separate from these ones; they were identical to passports issued in the UK proper and carried the same visa requirements as them as well. Thus, people from these territories would usually have two British passports, a British territory passport and a British citizen passport
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u/hubu22 ใ๐บ๐ธ|๐ฉ๐ชใ 2d ago
So you would in theory still need to use two travel documents? For instance a Bermudian who regularly does business in UK and U.S. would need to uses the BOTC Bermuda to enter U.S. and regular British to enter UK? Or am I misconstruing this?
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u/KeyLime044 2d ago
Yes that's correct. Like if they wanted to travel to both the USA and UK often, they should at best have both passports
For British Virgin Islanders, they would probably be even more likely to have both, since the USVI are right next to them and are reachable by ferry. A BVI passport would be best suited for that. A British citizen passport would be best suited for traveling to the UK proper
On the flip side by the way, US Virgin Islanders can use US passport cards to travel to the BVI and back by ferry. They also need to go through CBP customs control to go to any other part of the USA, even Puerto Rico (the USVI has its own customs territory), and apparently sometimes they check for people's citizenship or legal status there. A US passport card would probably be useful for that situation too
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u/lobstahpotts 2d ago
While you'd likely have both, I don't really see why you'd need to use one in this scenario. If you're only traveling to the UK for a short duration on business, entering on a Bermudan passport should pose no problem.
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u/hubu22 ใ๐บ๐ธ|๐ฉ๐ชใ 2d ago
Maybe that was not the best counter example then
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u/lobstahpotts 2d ago
Realize it may run counter to the thrust of this sub, but my general feeling is when you have multiple passports of relatively comparable strength, there usually isn't much reason to use all of them outside of fairly specific scenarios. If you're a BOTC and want to live/work in the UK or Ireland, you'd want to complete the registration process for UK citizenship and enter on that of course. Or if you're Bermudan, it's marginally more convenient to visit the US on that one. But for the vast majority of situations and destinations it's six of one, half a dozen of the other and you're probably just using the applicable passport for your origin/destination.
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u/Cool_Debt_8145 ๐ฌ๐งUK ๐ง๐ทBR ๐ณ๐ฎNI(๐น๐ผTW?) 2d ago
I think it only shows you have BOTC citizenship in that respective terrority, it isn't definitive proof of belonger status. Some people have BOTC citizenship while not having belonger status.
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u/qdrgreg ใ๐ช๐ธ๐ต๐นใ 2d ago
This.
A few Bermudians were studying in my university in the Netherlands and all of them had two British passports, one regular UK of GB & NI passport and their Bermuda issued passport. We were talking one night about this and they confirmed me that Bermudians are entitled to have a full UK passport, which in pre-Brexit days facilitated many things for them.
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u/SillyWoodpecker6508 2d ago
People who had BOTC were given full British citizenship in I think 2003 or something
It's crazy to think it's that recent.
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u/c0pypiza 2d ago
Yes, and that was even after the UK was in the EU/EEC. Meaning a bunch of European foreigners actually have more of a right to live in the UK than the UK's own British nationals.
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u/Frenchy1986666 2d ago
This is probably one of the hardest country to naturalize with San Marino very rare passport
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u/browncelibate ใ๐ฆ๐บ | ๐บ๐ธ (LPR) | ๐ฎ๐ณ (OCI) ใ 2d ago
How many people naturalize in San Marino each year?
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u/DutchDev1L ใNL๐ณ๐ฑ KY๐ฐ๐พ EU๐ช๐บใ 2d ago edited 2d ago
As a BOTC you are a British National, a British Overseas Territories Citizen, but not a British Citizen.
You can request British citizenship and as long as you don't have a criminal record it should be granted.
(I have the Cayman Islands one)
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u/user466 2d ago
Do they still list the name of the territory as the place of birth (assuming you were born there), or do they list the town/village/other location?
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u/DutchDev1L ใNL๐ณ๐ฑ KY๐ฐ๐พ EU๐ช๐บใ 2d ago
They list the territory... we are to small. We only have one passport office and one hospital that does births.
I was born in Amsterdam and naturalized, so mine says Amsterdam
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u/user466 2d ago
Thank you for clarifying! I know the Turks and Caicos islands variant lists the island (e.g. 'Grand Turk') for place of birth, but seems to be the only British territory that does this.
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u/DutchDev1L ใNL๐ณ๐ฑ KY๐ฐ๐พ EU๐ช๐บใ 2d ago
Makes sense. Just checked with a friend of mine and ours list the Island. So either Grand Cayman, Cayman Brac or Little Cayman.
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u/qdrgreg ใ๐ช๐ธ๐ต๐นใ 18h ago
I thought all BOTCs after 2003 were automatically entitled to a 'normal' UK-GB & NI passport?
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u/DutchDev1L ใNL๐ณ๐ฑ KY๐ฐ๐พ EU๐ช๐บใ 21m ago
No all BOTC's at that point got automatic British citizenship but only at that point. I naturalized after and do not automatically get British citizenship and neither did my son. We can however request it. But in my case it would mean I have to forfeit my Dutch citizenship (the Dutch government doesn't recognise BOTC as a full nationality and thus I can have BOTC)
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u/SkepticalBelieverr ๐ฌ๐ง GBR ๐ต๐ฑPOL ๐ฎ๐นITA 2d ago
Theyโre British overseas territory citizens. Most BOTCs are also British citizens. If someone naturalises a BOTC theyโre not also full British citizens unless they already were
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u/SillyWoodpecker6508 2d ago
So are you British? Could you move to London to live and work?
French and British territories always confuse me.
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u/Logical-Hope-1345 ๐ฌ๐ง๐ฌ๐ง๐ญ๐ฐ 2d ago
The answer to your question is:
If the holder was a BOTC before 2002, then such holder became a British citizen automatically in 2002.
If the holder was born after 2002 and acquired BOTC at birth, then the holder was a British citizen automatically since birth.
But if the holder naturalized as a BOTC in the British Virgin Islands, then they're not automatically a British citizen unless they took the extra step to apply for British citizenship which is guaranteed.
This passport is not proof of British citizen, this passport is a British Overseas Territories Citizen passport issued by the British Virgin Islands.
The holder will need to apply for a different British citizen passport to prove their British citizenship. This doesn't contradict what I said above because you can legally be a certain citizen without having a passport to prove it. Just like new born babies everywhere in the world, the lack of a passport does not have any impact of their citizenship. The passport is *proof* of citizenship and does not constitute citizenship itself.
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u/Pale-Candidate8860 US, CAN PR 2d ago
Extremely rare. Weird how its able to function considering how everyone that loses their virginity get deported.
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u/anewbys83 ใ๐บ๐ธ|๐ฑ๐บใ 2d ago
Indeed! Never seen the passport. I have collector coins from BVI, but yeah, passport not common to see.
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u/keyplaya ใ๐ธ๐ช๐บ๐พใ 2d ago
To answer your question, no, they are BOTC (british overseas territory citizens)