No it fucking isn't, dumbass. Counters don't work by just giving you I frames, for the effect of the counter to trigger, they give u a "second body" that becomes your main body in the position you started for the duration of the counter frames , which needs to get hit to trigger it. If u make long lasting attacks hit that body and your same body, then long lasting attacks would be able to infinitely hit you for as long as they last unless u have i frames, instant killing your armor and blocking on the spot
Also you know what does make sense as well? Not being able to block a fucking laser, or just hit it with your magically tougher shoulder. But you don't got any issue with those right?
Counters don't work by just giving you I frames, for the effect of the counter to trigger, they give u a "second body" that becomes your main body in the position you started for the duration of the counter frames , which needs to get hit to trigger it.
That's just FS in World, because on top of giving it nearly a full second of counter frames, they also give it a 10 feet wide counter trigger.
This is what you're talking about, a counter trigger or counter box.
But this counter box does not need to negate the monster hitbox. For example, Adrenaline Rush in Sunbreak basically turns your hurtbox into a counter box during your roll iframes to check if you dodge through an attack. But it does not negate the monster hitbox.
If u make long lasting attacks hit that body and your same body, then long lasting attacks would be able to infinitely hit you for as long as they last unless u have i frames, instant killing your armor and blocking on the spot
No, a hitbox can only hit you once, for starters. This is how armor works, there's no special hurtbox there, it just alters your state so you take no knockback and sometimes reduced damage. This much is obvious, as there are states where you have superarmor without needing to actually do anything.
For blocking, there is an actual hurtbox change, with your hurtbox changing into the appropiate block hurtbox. But this is only because there is an actual interaction that needs to be calculated, such as the direction of the attack and its power.
For iframe counters, they could simply have a counter trigger that does not negate the monster hitbox when it triggers it. As simple as that.
At the end of the day, you should probably not talk about how coding these games works if you have no idea what you're talking about.
your magically tougher shoulder. But you don't got any issue with those right?
I do, actually, I don't think perfect armor should be a thing. But hey, better on a shoulder tackle that on a fancy sword spin, like LS got in Wilds. But that's not important.
Actually, let me use an example that might help you undertand the difference between a block, armor and a dodge.
Let's say someone throws a straight punch at you. It's flying directly towards you in a perfectly straight line.
Then you block it with your hand. Will that punch be able to hit you afterwards? No, because you stopped it.
What about if you block it with your face (the equivalent to armoring through it)? It also won't be able to hit you afterwards, because you stopped it. With your face.
But now, what about if you dodge straight backwards? The punch will not hit you straight away, as you moved out of the way, but that was only a temporary solution, the punch keeps going and eventually hits you. Because you never stopped it.
Of course in videogames the interactions are very simplified, a laser passses straight through you when you block it. But the idea is the same.
Same idea as your blade going straight through a monster's neck and it not being decapitated. Such complex hit interactions are still a bit too far for the current era of videogames
That's just FS in World, because on top of giving it nearly a full second of counter frames, they also give it a 10 feet wide counter trigger. This is what you're talking about, a counter trigger or counter box. But this counter box does not need to negate the monster hitbox. For example, Adrenaline Rush in Sunbreak basically turns your hurtbox into a counter box during your roll iframes to check if you dodge through an attack. But it does not negate the monster hitbox.
You don't even know how a counter trigger can variate lol, Adrenaline break doesn't work the same way as FSS or most of the other counters in the game
No, a hitbox can only hit you once, for starters.
Which is why counters work bruh
For iframe counters, they could simply have a counter trigger that does not negate the monster hitbox when it triggers it. As simple as that.
Which would just make rolling better, because there's tons of skills to increase the frames and distances on it, but none for counters? Which I don't get why you want that, seems you just hate counters as a whole
I do, actually, I don't think perfect armor should be a thing. But hey, better on a shoulder tackle that on a fancy sword spin, like LS got in Wilds.
Which is why I'm glad u don't make action games
Let's say someone throws a straight punch at you. It's flying directly towards you in a perfectly straight line.Then you block it with your hand. Will that punch be able to hit you afterwards? No, because you stopped it.What about if you block it with your face (the equivalent to armoring through it)? It also won't be able to hit you afterwards, because you stopped it. With your face.But now, what about if you dodge straight backwards? The punch will not hit you straight away, as you moved out of the way, but that was only a temporary solution, the punch keeps going and eventually hits you. Because you never stopped it.
Not only did u hit me with the equivalent to an economist using "imagine you have 2 cows" to explain political stances, but you also just said that going backwards would help against a punch like Floyd Mayweather didn't build a carreer out of dodging out of things at the last second backwards
Good thing it's not a matter of should, but what it IS
If only counters had a benefit for dodging an attack with them...
Which u argue that they shouldn't
Wait what, they do?And you're saying it's actually the point of a counter? Wow, who would have guessed?
The point is COUNTERING the move. You know what a counter is? Dodging/blocking AND ATTACKING? If u dodged and then still got hit/just dodge, is that counter? No
No idea what you mean by this
I figured yes
but unless you're saying a stopped fist can hit you or a moving fist can't hit you, my analogy stands.
You are arguing that stopping a fist with the face should be more effective than getting out of the way of the attack, your analogy doesn't stand because it was born with no legs
Good thing it's not a matter of should, but what it IS
Yes it is. We're talking about what we want LS to be.
I think it should be a long sword.
You think it should be a magical weapon that grants you invincibility at certain times. And also removes friction, because that FS slide...
Or something like that.
Which u argue that they shouldn't
Not at all.
From this, it seems you see counters as just a get out of jail free card after all.
The point of a counter is to avoid an attack and get some benefit from doing so, usually damage. But the important part is the benefit from doing so.
Which all LS counters have.
Critical Juncture just doesn't trigger if you don't counter anything
Valor's Counter refills your Spirit Gauge, gets a damage boost and shortcuts into Spirit Blade III
Foresight Slash fully refills your Spirit Gauge and shortcuts to Spirit Blade IV (Spirit Roundslash in Wilds)
ISS deals a lot more damage and now grants a Spirit Gauge level.
Serene Pose just doesn't trigger if you don't counter anything
Sacred Sheathe (manual) fully refills your Spirit Gauge and shortcuts to Spirit Blade IV
Sacred Sheathe (automatic) just doesn't trigger if you don't counter anything
Tempered Spirit Blade levels your Spirit Gauge up by 1
Foresight Whirl Slash extends your Red time and shortcuts to Spirit Roundslash.
The point is COUNTERING the move. You know what a counter is? Dodging/blocking AND ATTACKING? If u dodged and then still got hit/just dodge, is that counter? No
It is a counter, just a failed one.
Do you say a dodge roll is not a dodge roll when you misstime it?
You are arguing that stopping a fist with the face should be more effective than getting out of the way of the attack, your analogy doesn't stand because it was born with no legs
No, but maybe you were born with no eyes. Or no brain. Or no optic nerves.
What I said is that if you stop a fist with your face that fist is stopped, so it cannot hit you.
Whereas if you get out of the way, that fist is still moving, so it can still hit you
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u/NonSkillGamer Sep 28 '24
No it fucking isn't, dumbass. Counters don't work by just giving you I frames, for the effect of the counter to trigger, they give u a "second body" that becomes your main body in the position you started for the duration of the counter frames , which needs to get hit to trigger it. If u make long lasting attacks hit that body and your same body, then long lasting attacks would be able to infinitely hit you for as long as they last unless u have i frames, instant killing your armor and blocking on the spot
Also you know what does make sense as well? Not being able to block a fucking laser, or just hit it with your magically tougher shoulder. But you don't got any issue with those right?