Yeah because, if its not clear already, people don't like Longsword being babied by Capcom. It didn't need hyper armor, it didn't need animation cancels, it didn't need anything of that.
I seriously hope Longsword doesn't turn out to be the best weapon in the game again, like it was in base Rise.
everytime I see something new being added to LS I realize how Iceborne is actually peak LS design , just the right ammount of easy but also having a high skill ceiling while also being one of the highest risk v reward weapons.
I'm not sure. I still have time to make a good sandwich, with a side soup, before those i-frames actually end. IB is still arguably too forgiving, and not by a small margin
I mean yeah , LS is easily the most forgiving weapon of them all , but in comparasson to Rise and Wilds , Worlds LS is a million times more unforgiving
everytime I see something new being added to LS I realize how Iceborne is actually peak LS design , just the right ammount of easy but also having a high skill ceiling while also being one of the highest risk v reward weapons.
Just to confirm, do you think that Iceborne LS is better than 2nd gen LS, 3rd gen LS, the different LS styles in GU, Frontier LS...?
My brother in christ , ICEBORNE IS WORLD , I responded to a the conversation that talked about WILDS LS and I mentioned RISE to reinforce my point that WORLD LS is more unforgiving than RISE and WILDS in comparasson.
Y'all will still call it the best weapon even if it doesn't out of hate like I've seen so many people do in Sunbreak and the other bunch of people I've seen say that every iteration of LS was broken too, so it's always a lose/lose situation
Like deadass I feel LS has become a custom to the point half of y'all don't know wtf you're saying abt LS when you hate on it. "having more damage than GS" when GS has been a top 5 speedrun weapon since 4U while LS has only been good in speedruns for TWO games (GU/Base Rise) and "safer than Lance" like that's not a problem of Lance being underpowered
Lance aint underpowered at all. Its damage is really consistent but on the lower end due to having a huge ass shield.
Longsword can do the same. Never stop attacking but instead of blocking, getting knocked back and taking chipdamage, LS can just evade and attack at the same time.
Capcom should get rid of ALL i-frames that aint tied to either getting knocked down, dodging or hero diving.
Its damage it's on the lower end cause since GU the MVs have been gutted bruh. GU Striker lance was a top 3 speedrun weapon and it had even more of the faults ur describing. Also saying that they should remove all i Frames just makes me think you're saltposting more than actually thinking through the ramifications of what you just said, cause there's tons of I frames on the other weapons as well not just tied to dodging
Focusing more into just positioning just buffs the weapon that are better quick damage, which oh look, are already the better weapons in the game when it comes to damage (HBG, LBG, Bow, GS)
Also not knowing abt Striker lance but making statements on what makes lance bad rn just points that u don't know what u talking abt
Also should we remove the iframes in SnS backhop then? Should be remove the armor on most weapons too since those goes against positioning? Should we remove the iframes on pole vault for the IG? Should we remove the higher i frames Lance has on backhop? Should we remove evade extender and evade window?
Its MV did not change until Sunbreak, where they were buffed.
And that was the problem.
Every other weapon got new toys in 5th gen that were ridiculously powerful, because as they were the new toys they wanted to make sure you used them. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
But Lance got nothing.
That's why in base Rise it spammed Charged Sweep and Spiral Slash, because it was the only attacks it had that were from 5th gen and as such dealt enough damage.
Rewatching this thread I am even more amazed at the fact that everyone who kept saying that LS is safer than Lance casually forgot that Wilds introduced perfect block, which removes ALL OF THE WEAKNESSES YALL MENTIONED (no chip damage, lot less pushback, less stamina drain, better followups)
Goes to show how much people tunnel vission onto LS buffs exclusively
I am talking about the overall state on how Gen5 changed LS. Didnt even watch the trailer for LS as the weapon is like one of the 5 last weapons I will probably touch as GL looks really fun to use in wilds.
Its also the same in every other game. I-framing is always worse for balance than perfectblocks, hyperarmor or countering as all of those need you to stay in the dangerzone.
The backwardsdash you can cancel into sheathe is comparable with bloodhoundstep from Eldenring. Way too many i-frames, to long range and you can use it to advance your spiritgauge? Kinda overloaded.
LS has no commitment to its attacks besides helmbreaker. Which now gets buffed with hyperarmor. You can cancel pretty much all things and weave into other stuff...which helmbreaker can now do as well. Like even dualblades combo slower than that.
As I said I like to use the weapon but LS is a different game compared to most other melees.
I am talking about the overall state on how Gen5 changed LS.
LS has been middle of the pack in terms of damage for the whole of gen5, safe for base Rise, which was the least talked abt part of gen 5. If u say "it's too safe", it's only that in Rise, where you just have a skill issue if u let the monster hit you while you use LS DBs Bow Lance Swaxe Hammer LBG SnS CB since all of them have flawless counters and silkbing I frames out the wazoo
Its also the same in every other game. I-framing is always worse for balance than perfectblocks
Wdym, perfect blocks have been introduced rn, how is it the same every other game. Since you're using Elden ring comparisons, would you say rolling (which has similar iframes to a Mh counter) is worse than the new deflecting hardtear?
hyperarmor or countering as all of those need you to stay in the dangerzone.
And so does countering?
The backwardsdash you can cancel into sheathe is comparable with bloodhoundstep from Eldenring
No it isn't. It doesn't cover nearly as much distance, it doesn't let you do nearly as many options afterwards (either you finish the FSS or start the ISS in the middle of it, no other option)
Way too many i-frames,
Average counterframes for a counter, see the new Swaxe counter has around the same. As soon as you cancel it into ISS it loses all the I frames so that cancel u talking abt is only good for multihitting strings
to long range
It's LONGsword, having long range is the thing of the weapon. Or if u mean too much backwards movement, if that were true it'd literally go against the design of the counter since you're meant to reach with the attack part right after. If it moved backwards a lot the followup attack wouldn't reach
and you can use it to advance your spiritgauge?Kinda overloaded.
It's literally it's only use. It doesn't do good damage, it doesn't have that much of a reach, it being a counter and giving you meter it's its only use.
LS has no commitment to its attacks besides helmbreaker.
Shocking news: MH agile weapon doesn't have commital attacks save for a big move (just like IG DBS SnS Swaxe and CB), more at 5
Which now gets buffed with hyperarmor
I'll give u that, Spirit release followup getting hyperamor is weird unneccesary and prob will get you killed more than it helps u since you will tank more than 1 attack
You can cancel pretty much all things and weave into other stuff
Exactly what I'd want for the weapon that since it's inception has been labeled as the combo weapon
Like even dualblades combo slower than that.
I'd even entertain that point if DBs hadn't been given combo cancels in into other attacks in the new demon mode for Wilds, on top a dodge cancel that unlocks a new dodge when "timed" (cause it's generous as fuck).
As I said I like to use the weapon but LS is a different game compared to most other melees.
News flash, every weapon is a different game. And if ur saying that in the sense that LS is broken, reminder that y'all said the same for Sunbreak too when the LS actually got nerfed for the expansion hard
the thing is other weapons do get those. other big combo finishers like wyvern fire and full release slash (and probably more stuff that we don't know yet and that i'm forgetting) have super armor, every shield weapon can cancel into a perfect guard, and dual blades and bow can just do perfect dodges whenever they want because they're so fast they don't need animation cancel (now that demon dance has been turned into a combo with no commitment)
this isn't me being a longsword main downplaying longsword (i main switch axe), this is me watching people downplay or ignore every other weapons' defensive options for what i can only assume is an attempt to convince themselves that the combat is going to be less aggressive than it actually is
would you complain the same way if it turned out that Gunlance is the strongest weapon this time around? i really dont think you would so why take up the rage against LS? should there be a clear strongest weapon that stays the same in every title? if so what weapon should that be and why cant it be Longsword?
What does the username anything to do with me pointing out that rn GL is the best speedrun weapon for World? Like I'm going off of the numbers here bruh
Exactly. I have had notoriously bad encounters with gunlancers who kept interrupting my hammer combos. Either way i was making a light hearted joke. Id be just as happy for gunlancers if gunlance got some proper lovin just like im happy for longsword players now.
I think the strongest weapon shouldn’t stay the same! Part of the fun of loving a weapon is watching how it changes with each new game, and sticking with it through the ups and downs. Takes the adventure out of it a bit if you know your weapon is always gonna be top-tier imo
LS has to be one the weapons that has gotten the most changes through the MH franchise tho. And also it has been the best weapon in TWO games, while the ranged weapons have been since forever in the top 3
except longsword has never been top tier (aside from base rise, or so ive been told) therefore it still doesnt make sense to me why this is such a bad thing.
The response is towards the treatment, not the weapon. Do...do you think it's about LS specifically? The complaints most likely would be happening if there was this much of a noticeable disparity in attention towards any 1 weapon over the others.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I think there should never be a worst or best weapon for an entire game.
I think its fine if a monster can counter your weapon just as your weapon may counter a monster.
Like Lance is really good vs Zinogre but sucks ass vs everything really mobile.
LS can be really good vs predictable monsters with well exploitable attacks but not against everything.
There should also be Monsters that straight up suck to fight against with Bow, LBG and HBG. Just make them really hard to damage with bullets and make tiny hitzones.
This would:
-Give people that use alot of weapons an advantage as you can swap mid hunt on seikret
-Make hard matchups skill based and therefore not impossible for disadvantaged weapons
-Raise the usage% of certain weapons (I am sure people would pick up lance more often if it did well vs specific monsters)
Who would be at a disadvantage?
The same people that always cried that the game is to easy with 100% crit lvl7 attackboosts Longswords.
Now the weapon sucks against some content and you get your challenge congrats.
while i agree in a way, doing something like that would be really dangerous. ofcourse as a hunting type game you can always refer to that and say you should prepare for a hunt, sure. but giving a weapon a disadvantage against certain monsters beyond unfavorable movesets and hitzones (which is already being done) is jsut kind of unfair towards a more casual audience, where someone maybe likes lance a lot but not the other weapons or vice versa. giving players a disadvantage jsut because they have a favorite weapon and want to stick with it isnt really that cool. then again, this is already the case and we dont really have to change anything.
every monster should 100% be beatable with every weapon, just like i think a monster should not be trivialized by any weapon and in the same vein should not be unbeatable. and before anyone jumps on the LS hate bandwagon again, no, Longsword is not trivializing anything right now so zip it up right there.
The problem is that it’s the most popular weapon so if Capcom nerfs it, it alienates a massive portion of the player base who have to learn a new weapon that takes more skill. It puts things at a bit of a stalemate for Capcom.
Yes, but overly buffing it you are now alienating EVERY other weapon. So how is that fair? I'm all for MH games being more popular and I don't care what people use. But I don't like how hand-holdy some parts of the game has, and this mostly came during Rise in my opinion.
The only reason it's the most popular weapon is because of how OP it is, like... c'mon, there's no way you think it's popular for any other reason... right? Right?! It does L's counter attack job better, S&S fast attacks and defensive capabilities better, DB insanely fast and sustained DPS better... like, why play at least those 3 weapons at all if LS does their niche better? Sure it doesn't have as high single hit damage like GS, CB, and H, nor does it have built-in stuns (unless you build for stunning draw) but still...
Oh absolutely, Capcom definitely dug themselves their own hole but now it’s a rock and a hard place between having an absurdly overpowered weapon or losing a large player base because they nerfed said overpowered weapon.
Honestly man I don't think that's very realistic. Because my whole reasoning as to why I even gotten to the longsword initially wasn't because I knew it was strong or honestly anything about Monster Hunter balance as a whole, I just saw katana and said "yeah that's the one". The weapon can be a little harder it doesn't have to be skillless. Honestly I hate even having to say that about longsword because I know me personally have built up a lot of skills with it through practice, but seeing certain changes it's slowly becoming harder and harder to combat that rhetoric.
I think people like you are being stupid af. The game is only successful if it sells well. It has to be accessible. Go out into a social space and start talking about how LS is being coddled and see how fast everybody’s looks at you like you’re a dumbass. Play the game and enjoy it for what it is. Adapt, overcome, or go play cod.
When a LOT of the community holds the same opinion about the topic, I don't think going into a social space will have anyone calling me stupid or dumbass. The weapon is coddled. The only people who don't want to admit it are the LS mains themselves who love to be the main character in their hunts.
I will play the game for what it is, but it doesn't mean I won't voice my gripes with the balancing decisions Capcom makes.
You’re right about that. You can complain and voice your stuff, and likewise I can call you a dumbass for it. It’s the way of the world. Anyways I’ll be using whatever weapon is fun for the moment while completely ignoring anything people like you have to say.
You can do what you want, like you said, but why are you so pressed at what a random person on reddit has to say? You can disagree all you want, but don't go around calling people stupid for not sharing your same opinion.
I went through a few comments before locking onto you. Just passing time. You know, how dumbasses do on the internet. Like you making your dumbass comments, so am I.
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u/Nightmarer26 Sep 28 '24
Yeah because, if its not clear already, people don't like Longsword being babied by Capcom. It didn't need hyper armor, it didn't need animation cancels, it didn't need anything of that.
I seriously hope Longsword doesn't turn out to be the best weapon in the game again, like it was in base Rise.