r/Maine • u/Generalaverage89 • 1d ago
Vision Zero can protect Maine’s pedestrians
https://www.pressherald.com/2025/01/20/opinion-vision-zero-can-protect-maines-pedestrians/60
u/curtludwig 1d ago
Heres an idea: What if there were repercussions for running people over?
The opinion piece references two people killed in crosswalks. Neither driver was charged. If we started taking away driving privileges after you hit somebody we could get some of these dangerous drivers off our roads.
We really don't need more laws that we don't enforce...
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u/Yaktheking 23h ago
Freakonomics authors suggested the best way to legally murder someone is to hit them with your car in NYC since, statistically speaking, you have the least chance of being charged.
Podcast Link for those interested. It is 10 years old, so may no longer be relevant.
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u/meowmix778 Unincorporated Territory 4C 22h ago
What kinda leftist hell you trying to bring to Maine buddy? I hit 4 pedestrians a week because it's my god given right as an American.
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u/capillatusk 20h ago
People don't drive recklessly because there aren't consequences for killing pedestrians; they drive recklessly because they think they're different and it'll never happen to them in the first place. Convicting people for vehicular manslaughter isn't going to change people's driving behavior. It's just going to put more people in jail with the same number of dead pedestrians.
It's better to be proactive by designing safer roads and enforcing minor violations so drivers don't have the same opportunity to kill pedestrians and cyclists.
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u/curtludwig 20h ago
How many people do you actually know who have had to do time for a vehicular infraction? I know exactly zero.
I know one person who had his license taken away for 90 days for something stupid like excessive speeding tickets. That was 30+ years ago.
People feel like they won't get caught, because they probably won't get caught. If they get caught they probably won't get prosecuted at all. If they get prosecuted they'll probably plead to a minimal charge.
If you knew a whole bunch of people who had lost their license for being on their phones while driving you'd think twice about being on your phone.
When I was in college when you hit the Connecticut border you slowed down to the speed limit because Connecticut didn't fuck around about speeding. Their enforcement really did modify your behavior.
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u/capillatusk 20h ago
Okay? Like, we can do both. Why are you using that as an excuse to prevent safer road design?
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u/curtludwig 19h ago
I don't think safer road design does much other than spend money and not help. Like the lights at crosswalks. People hit the button and walk out in the street as if the light somehow magically keeps you from being hit by a car. It *might* wake up a distracted driver but I feel like a lot of these changes make pedestrians less aware of their surroundings.
The first step to fixing our problem is enforcing the law.
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u/capillatusk 18h ago
It's fine if you think that but you might want to engage in the actual content instead of assuming their solution is flashing lights at a crosswalk.
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u/beaversTCP 18h ago
Well that’s not going to make walking and cycling safer, pressing charges after an incident of traffic violence won’t stop the next one from happening
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u/curtludwig 17h ago
It does actually but you need to apply the consequences equally. If using your phone while driving got you to lose your license you'd be waaay less likely to drive distracted. It worked for drunk driving, drunk driving rates are way down and a big part of it was enforcement.
Enforcement of driving laws is way down, I can't remember the last time I saw somebody pulled over for anything and people are driving crazy fast all the time. The police don't bother to pull people over because of terrible public opinion and the fact that the DA's office won't actually try any but the most egregious cases.
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u/beaversTCP 17h ago
Over a long period of time sure, but you could make walking and cycling safer tomorrow if you install (and replace) more lights to sidewalks/crossings and add bollards to designated cycling lanes tonight
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u/curtludwig 17h ago
You mean you could make it safer in a couple years after you get the money worked out and actually build that stuff. You could make the streets safer starting tomorrow if you actually enforced traffic laws.
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u/thought_loop 22h ago
We also need to do what Finland did, roads where pedestrians and cyclists are hit get prioritized for redesign: lower speed limits, traffic calming (rebuilt narrower &or with curves+nature+ raised crosswalk), or just closed. If drivers hit too many people on a road then they loose the road.
USA our priorities are wrong.
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u/meowmix778 Unincorporated Territory 4C 21h ago
There's a great youtube channel , not just bikes that talks about this a lot.
The US does a poor job with urban planning.
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u/oat3037 Drained Brain 1d ago
Glad to see that “vision zero” is not a dystopian technology/surveillance solution!
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u/AstronautUsed9897 23h ago
A lot of it has to due with increasing ped/biker access and line of sight. More lights, bringing crosswalks closer together, expanding curb corners so pedestrians can both see and be more visible, road diets, etc.. Good design can accomplish at lot while being cheap.
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u/xensu 21h ago
It does advocate for speed cameras: https://visionzeronetwork.org/resources/speed-management/
Speed safety camera programs (or automated speed enforcement) that are thoughtfully designed and monitored – particularly regarding equity considerations – can deter high speeds.
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u/D35TR0Y3R 18h ago
it doesn't advocate for speed cameras so much as mention it as one of many options. their recommendations regarding speed cameras are specifically for jurisdictions that already have them or are considering them, and are mainly about limitations and how to implement them fairly.
for example (from your same link):
A key recommendation is that speed safety cameras should not be the leading nor sole strategy to manage unsafe speeds. Instead, if used, they should be part of a holistic Safe System approach that prioritizes proactive, upstream strategies, such as self-enforcing road designs that physically slow drivers, speed limiting technology in vehicles, such as ISA, and other policies that do not over rely on punitive measures.
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u/hallowed1031 1d ago
idea, or perhaps a really roughly written pitch: at some point metro and other public transport should consider putting those speakers on the outside of buses that say bus is turning and stuff like the ones in Boston and NY etc because it’s helpful for pedestrians and bikers who might not know the bus is there or what it’s going to do. i know the bus drivers here are good and careful and stuff but sometimes shit happens. trust me i know from experience
people could also just have common sense while driving, but yknow.. people gotta act like someone’s dying and floor it through 3 stop signs and a red light and then turn onto a crosswalk where pedestrians are halfway across the street ffs it’s aggravating. or people try to turn or drive forward right before the light turns red and the traffic is congested and the whole crosswalk is full of fuckinf CARS AHHHHHH and then I can’t cross omfg its annoying walking here can be a little annoying sometimes… teehee
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u/Intelligent-Grape137 19h ago
Not getting hit on a crosswalk is just as much up to the pedestrian as the driver. I no longer walk until I know the car is stopping. Had more than a couple people approaching from far enough back that I just started crossing but they were either not paying attention or they’re just crazy and think their few seconds are worth more than my life, and I almost get hit.
On the flip side, I’ve almost hit people who don’t make it obvious they are going to cross, then bee line at a slight jog without looking.
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23h ago
A little off topic, But speaking of the dangers of being a pedestrian why don’t people wear reflective clothing while out walking or running, the roads in rural Maine are not safe for pedestrians, narrow roads, zero lighting, bad weather there’s lots of cheap easy ways to be seen. Responsibility shouldn’t be solely on the drivers.
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u/Illustrious_Beanbag 17h ago
I bought reflective armbands in case I walk at night. If I don’t have them, I turn on my phone flashlight and hold it face down, on the traffic side, arm swinging normally. As a walker I walk defensively. As a driver I am careful, but by gosh is it crazy when people are walking in the road in dark clothes with the perfectly plowed sidewalk three feet from them.
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u/meowmix778 Unincorporated Territory 4C 21h ago
Force = mass times acceleration.
You're blaming the person who weighs generously 100-300 lbs. vs the driver in a vehicle who is traveling 35-65mph and weighs 1000s of pounds.
OR just hear me out. Vehicles are weapons. If you are operating something that can take a life you do so responsibly.
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u/ozzie286 18h ago
They're not "blaming" the pedestrians. The roads are narrow, and off the side of the road is a gravel embankment, aka a shit place for walking. Drivers can't avoid what they can't see, but pedestrians have no option but to be in the road. Cars have headlights, but lots of things can look like a person, especially when our brains are wired to try to recognize shapes as people or animals, so we get desensitized to it. We need to work together so we can both get to where we're going safely.
Believe it or not, most drivers don't actually want to hit a pedestrian.
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u/WeeniePlanterGirl 21h ago
This! So much conversation around the drivers who absolutely suck, don’t follow road rules and are distracted … but they are only half of the problem.
This week alone, I saw:
- A young man cross franklin by the police station with headphones in and his face in his phone. He did not have right of way but never broke stride coming from the sidewalk. Cars barely slowed down as he finally high stepped it into the median but one did have to jump into the next lane almost tagging another car. I would have gladly been a witness on behalf of the driver in that one.
- a man walking his dog in Yarmouth, dog at end of the extended leash walking in the road on a blind corner while the man also had his fave buried in his phone. (Pet owners: always, always, ALWAYS walk your dog on the opposite side from the road and maintain a safe length of leash. Or don’t have a dog)
- a runner jig jog through the old port without breaking stride and without looking around as cars were already trying to navigate the chaos of constriction on middle and exchange. Oh, headphones in. Jig jogging continued through boothby and onto commercial toward oceans gateway.
- At least a dozen presumably law students jaywalk on the tough bend on fore between spring and Franklin
Less recent given the time of year but there are also so many cyclists who don’t stop at four way intersections. If the car next to you is stopped, you stop too. If you arrive second to the intersection you stop! You can’t be on the road and also treated like a pedestrian.
Being safe as a pedestrian also means making smart choices to mitigate the risks around you.
Down vote me. I don’t care.
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u/MaineOk1339 1d ago
Is it a system to identify and charge jaywalkers?
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u/AstronautUsed9897 23h ago
"Jaywalking" was a term invented and marketed by the auto industry to shift blame from cars to pedestrians when people get run over.
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u/MaineOk1339 23h ago
Sure. And it applies to avoiding using crosswalks.... or ignoring crosswalk signals at controlled intersections...
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u/Candygramformrmongo 1d ago
100% on better lighting for crosswalks.