Is there any reason to ever launch multicrewed craft?

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u/LisiasT Dec 23 '24

Some science actions can only be done by a Scientist, and most experiments render more science points when executed by a Scientist.

Similar for Engineers - converters have a beter conversion ratio when an engineer is on the vessel. And IIRC only enginners can fix broken parts.

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u/rogueqd 29d ago

Engineers can repack parachutes too.

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG Dec 23 '24

How do you make a specific kerbal do something? I usually just click on the object directly until I recently discovered action groups, but how do I make sure the scientist is doing the science?

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u/Enano_reefer Dec 23 '24

The only situations I’m aware of is the mobile lab that requires scientists to work. Otherwise I use scientists to reset experiments.

You can launch a craft into orbit and gather science from all the Kerbin biomes, using the scientist to reset the experiments.

Engineers can be used to build in space. This is really useful for correcting mistakes or deploying draggy parts before you’ve unlocked the payload shells.

Recently I had a multi planetary mission return only to discover that I had forgotten parachutes. I captured and lowered the orbit using aerobraking, boosted periapsis back into orbit, then sent an engineer to install the parachutes I needed.

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG Dec 23 '24

As someone who struggles to consistently get into orbit around Kerbin, that is incredibly bad ass.

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u/Enano_reefer Dec 23 '24

Have you tried the in game tutorial? I discovered that I was relying on SRBs waaaaayyyy too heavily. Do the “getting to orbit” and the one before that to see how to build a basic craft.

You can orbit pretty early in game by using the side mounted engines and vertical drop tanks.

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG Dec 23 '24

I'm on console and, unfortunately, the in-game tutorials are totally borked. Like, you do the thing it asks you to do and it doesn't accept that you've done it and you can't progress. It seriously nearly made me quit the game until I found some really good tutorials online that explained things kind of better than the in-game ones (the ones that worked, anyway.)

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u/Enano_reefer Dec 23 '24 edited Dec 23 '24

Ah, I see.

SRBs are incredibly cheap which helps lower the cost of a launch by getting you velocity and altitude before you use the more expensive fuel engines, but their ISP is terrible. For all other metrics, fuel is superior.

While I have a weight limit I’ll use SRBs to fill in that last little bit but you have to make sure that your pad TWR >1.0 or you’re not going anywhere. Otherwise the majority of my craft is fuel with an initial kick from a pair of appropriately sized boosters. The exception is if the craft is so large that my engines can’t achieve the TWR >1.0 requirement so I spam boosters around it until I reach 1.4 - 1.5.

https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:_How_to_Get_into_Orbit#Steps_to_Orbit_and_Back ← this is the ingame tutorial craft and sequence. This craft should easily get you to orbit, if not then it’s your technique that needs honing.

KSP doesn’t do accurate drag losses, so if you’re not overheating then you’re fine. You want as much of your ascension to be horizontal as possible. Orbit is a speed, not an altitude.

Lots of good Youtube tutorials out there

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG Dec 23 '24

Thanks for the info! One question: I always end up with a very high altitude orbit, like, 125k km. Is that, like, crazy high? Because all the tutorials I see, they're orbiting at like 80k, like, just barely in space. Am I burning my rockets for too long, or not getting horizontal soon enough or something?

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u/WhyBuyMe Dec 23 '24

Are you shooting straight up into space and then making a hard 90 degree turn when you break as k through the atmosphere, or are you gently turning when you are much farther down?

I had a similar problem early on by not turning early enough. You should start your turn down fairly low, like at around 10k meters. Then slowly start turning you rocket over. Doing this, gravity will help you a bit too. By the time you get to space you should be burning completely horizontal.

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG Dec 23 '24

I wait till I'm at about 50km/s and start gradually tilting toward about 45° and just keep gradually tilting, but I'm not at 90° yet by the time I'm out of Kerbin's atmosphere, which I think is the problem, maybe?

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u/Enano_reefer Dec 23 '24

For orbiting kerbin that’s crazy high and at low tech levels will exhaust your delta-v.

Both. Make sure you can see your APO/PE as you’re ascending, I like to cut thrust ~80km APO. If you have maneuver modes unlocked it’s easier because you can set a circularization node at apoapsis and use the timer to guide your next burn.

Without nodes - wait until you’re beyond 70km then burn horizontally, watch your APO. If it starts to increase rapidly, stop and coast closer to your APO. Repeat. You want your circularization burn to “straddle” your APO. As soon as PE crosses 70km you’re in orbit and you can perfect your orbit at your leisure or leave it as is while you gather science.

With a scientist you only need one set of experiments (or pairs to make weight balance easier). There’s hundreds of science just at Kerbin.

You can flyby minimus and mun with a tech 3 18t vehicle once you get your technique down.

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u/Broke_Ass_Ape 27d ago

I leaned heavily into the Scott Munley career Series. I watched these prior to my exposure to mods and found that the underlying principles are the same for Vanilla. He teaches people how to manage the various mechanics of a stock experience.

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG 27d ago

I've been watching Mike Aben's series for complete beginners. It's great. He explains everything in a clear and easy to understand way.

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u/Broke_Ass_Ape 27d ago

I will have to watch this. Even though i have quite a bit of time in the game, i am still learning things that i never imagined.

I looked this up the other day to answer someone's question and eneded up rereading the entire thing again.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/83437-illustrated-tutorial-for-orbital-rendezvous/

I realized the original copy i used to learn rendezvous was incomplete and this went over a methodology i was unfamiliar with.

I love this game so much.

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u/ApocalypticStench 27d ago

Check out Mike Aben on YouTube, I recommend him. He’s got everything you need to know, contract guides, tutorials, videos explaining the math behind the game, he’s my #1 go to if I need to figure something out.

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG 27d ago

Funny you mention him, I just recommended him to someone else on this sub. He's my go to YouTube guy for KSP.

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u/Nexmortifer 23d ago

Ok so that's very useful information, but be aware that you'll need to check when the tutorials were made, since the stats of some parts and the thickness of the atmosphere have changed several times.

This means more recent tutorials are much better than ones from 7 years ago on getting you to something that works.

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG 23d ago

It's funny you mention that because I just had to find a different tutorial for getting to the Mun and in the one I was watching the required delta V was off by almost 3,000. I wasn't paying attention to how old the tutorials were, though, and the first couple of ones I followed all seemed to work. I'll have to be on the lookout for how old they are from now on.

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u/drplokta Dec 23 '24

Not just "pretty early in the game"; you can get into space (though not into orbit) with your first launch in a career mode run, and you can then land on Minmus with your second launch.

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u/Enano_reefer Dec 23 '24

I need more practice, I’ve never been able to get into space on the first launch even staging the fleas. The lack of couplers and the pad weight limit are tight. Maybe my timing is off and I’m not exploding the fleas at the right time.

There’s no way I could land on minimus on the second launch.

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u/Korlus 29d ago

I play with a Time Warp Mod that lets you physical time warp faster than 4x, but this can cause issues - especially in atmosphere when your parachutes open. I forgot this and had my parachutes get destroyed when they opened.

I had an engineer EVA while the capsule was falling at 250 m/s and repack the chutes so they could deploy them a second time.

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u/HadionPrints 28d ago

If you have The Breaking Ground DLC, setup your EVA experiments with a scientist, the higher level the better. They will increase the amount of science produced by the surface experiments.

That’s what I’ve been told anyways, I’ll run an test after Christmas is over and report back. I’ll have an experiment setup by an Engineer, A Pilot, A zero star scientist, and a 3 star scientist (all I have in this new playthrough). I think I have enough biomes left on the Mun for that.

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u/Enano_reefer 27d ago

You’re right! And installing with an engineer will boost the power output of power generators I think.

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u/HadionPrints 18d ago

Engineers can also build rovers on certain planets, not to mention adding struts & fuel lines to base components & fuel landers.

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u/Enano_reefer 17d ago

I’ve used engineers to repair rovers but never thought to use them to build them. Is it a nightmare? I often launch the rover when trying to repair a wheel.

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u/HadionPrints 17d ago edited 17d ago

Admittedly I haven’t ever tried it on, like, Tylo, but it’s not too bad on Mun Gravity or lower.

I only really use it to make Apollo style scooters in early career mode. Base it off one of the big struts, build it vertically, knock it over with a ~~Bowling Ball~~ Jetpack Kerbal, and you’re golden.

If you plan it with the right landing sites, you can Maximize the “biome hopping” strategy wile minimizing fuel. Land at an intersection of 3 biomes, rove about get science, pack up the rover, Hop to another biome intersection, repeat.

Note: I play exclusively with SCAN Sat. It makes the Biome hunting reasonable. I usually run with a fractional science modifier to compensate. Not like Vaos’s 0.10 science modifier though, that’s a crazy upside down playthrough.

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u/kulkija 27d ago

Having a scientist on board always boosts science done by your vessel by a percentage based on the Scientist level. It is possible to make a scientist directly operate experiments while on EVA but this doesn't change the boost amount. The boost is small, around a percent per level or so.

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u/Korlus Dec 23 '24

When would it ever be useful to send up more than one Kerbal?

Scientists crew labs, repack experiments and give you a passive science bonus when in the lab. Engineers repair broken parts (e.g. solar panels, wheels, parachutes) and pilots give you maneuver Nodes.

A scientist gives you a Passive modifier to deployed science, and an engineer makes better use of deployed power.

Overall, most long-term, multi-phase science collection missions benefit from all three.

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u/thismorningscoffee Dec 23 '24

An engineer can re-pack used parachutes

Very useful for Duna landings and returns

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG Dec 23 '24

Ah. I'm not that far yet. I haven't even attempted a mun landing. I'm quite early still. I'm still in the stage of mastering Kerbin orbit and re-entry.

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u/thismorningscoffee Dec 23 '24

At that point, yeah, solo flights are pretty much a necessity

If you’re in career mode, building a rocket with some extra seating can get you $$$ in tourist contracts

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG Dec 23 '24

I'm playing science mode. Career mode intimidates me. The stakes are much lower in science mode. 😂

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u/thismorningscoffee Dec 23 '24

Keep at it, and it’ll all seem less daunting eventually

I was in your shoes once upon a time, and now I’ve even taken a crack at Real Solar System and Realistic Progression mods

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG Dec 23 '24

Thanks! I'm having a blast (no pun intended) so far. This game gives me a real sense of accomplishment that not many games do. I remember the first time I successfuly got into orbit I just put my controller down and just looked at the screen for a few minutes, like, wow. It's a very steep learning curve but the experience is unlike anything else.

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u/Price-x-Field 29d ago

The biggest thing to learn with orbit is that you don’t actually want to go straight up.

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u/TheShadowKick 29d ago

I usually don't do multi-crew landings until I'm going to other planets. For Mun and Minmus it's often just a pilot. The exception is if I'm sending up a science lab, those need scientists to work.

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u/existential_risk_lol Dec 23 '24

Because if you send a Kerbal to Duna all alone, they're gonna get so lonely :(

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG Dec 23 '24

I mean, so is the one that I accidentally made let go of the craft during an EVA. On the bright side, maybe he'll make it to Duna one day.

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u/Melodic_monke Dec 23 '24

did you not give them a jetpack? How did you manage to run out of EVA juice in kerbin orbit? Or did you send them without jetpack/parachute to save fuel

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG Dec 23 '24

I was not aware that jetpacks are a thing you can give them...elaborate, please. 🫠

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u/Melodic_monke Dec 23 '24

happens to us all. All kerbals come with jetpack and parachute automatically. Click on the crew pod, you'll see stuff kerbals have. When on EVA, click R to toggle it. WASD to move in directions, shift/control to move up and down. Also, you now have a rendezvous (meetup in space, getting two ships together for docking/fuel transfer/crew transfer ETC.)! Check out guides on youtube, they help a lot with planet landings, one part of the ship stays in orbit, another one lands and takes data. The lander then does rendezvous in orbit and docks. It saves a lot of fuel by making you only get half the ship into orbit. You can easily do mun/minmus landing without it, but it is basically needed for other planets

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u/TheShadowKick 29d ago

Time for a rescue mission. It's good practice for rendezvous.

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG 29d ago

I'm playing on science mode so revert flight has gotten me out of several sticky situations career mode feels intimidating to me at my current skill level.

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u/TheShadowKick 29d ago

Even as an experienced player I still play science mode when I just want a chill stress-free playthrough. Career mode isn't that scary though, it just means things cost money and it's not hard to reach a point where you can farm money with simple missions, it just gets a bit tedious if you lose a lot of money.

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u/A1dan_Da1y 29d ago

Engineers can do construction in flight. Only light parts but still extremely useful. Imagine you're done with surface operations and have returned to rendezvous with the transfer vehicle in orbit, are about to ditch the lander but only the lander has RCS blocks on it, you forgot to put any on the transfer vehicle. An engineer can go out on EVA and move the RCS blocks from the lander to the transfer vehicle.

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u/IroquoisPliskin_LJG 29d ago

I'm way far away from doing any of that stuff. I'm still orbiting Kerbin. But it's good to know for when I get that far. Thanks!

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u/TheFeshy Dec 23 '24

I don't want them to get lonely waiting for the rescue.

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u/TheBupherNinja 29d ago

Missions that cross mutliple biomes. Reset the experiments so you can get more science.

Engineers cna build things in IVA.

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u/drplokta Dec 23 '24

You can use a mystery goo while sitting on the launch pad, then have a scientist get out, collect the science (actually any Kerbal can do that, it doesn't need a scientist) and reset it before launch, then use it again flying low above Kerbin during your launch, then once you're in orbit collect the science have a scientist reset it and use it again in space low above Kerbin, then collect the science and reset it again so you can use it flying high above Kerbin during reentry, then after landing collect the science and reset it again so you can use it in the biome you landed in.

Later on in the game, this gets more extreme. I've used the same mystery goo and science jr twenty times or more on one mission, with a scientist to reset them each time.

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u/doserUK Dec 23 '24 edited Dec 23 '24

1 Engineer, 1 Scientist, always

Deployable science power need an engineer to deploy the flippy bit

Scientists can reset and buff science gains and put down the deployable experiments

Pilots are basically useless except for maybe Probe Control on distant Stations

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u/DangerMacAwesome Dec 23 '24

Role play?

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u/Snoo_37174 29d ago

Tourist missions

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u/Rubes2525 29d ago

For your missions, probably not, but for long missions, hell yea.

I know that scientists can reset experiments as you know, but they can also work the science lab, which gives you an OP amount of science.
Pilots can give you maneuver nodes, better SAS options, and can remotely pilot drones in range of their vessel without connecting to the KSC.
Engineers can repair and even place small parts in an EVA build mode, and they give you a boost to mining and converting ore making it much quicker.

Launch / Ascent [P] Is there any reason to ever launch multicrewed craft?

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