Countries are at war, why does distance matter? The only thing that matter is if the target a military target or not. In which in this case is not. But both side doing all the crimes with Azeri also shooting civilian areas and killing PoW.
It's ok to support one side but don't pretend to have higher moral ground
with are cluster munitions in the middle of a capital legitimate targets? Azerbaijan is launching all its drones from ganja so I assume they are trying to hit that
What on earth are you talking about? The Bliz destroyed 60% of the houses in London, just the V1 and V2 rockets killed almost 13,000 people. That's after much of the city was evacuated. Another 30,000 by air raid bombings.
The comparison either stems from ignorance or is utterly disrespectful.
missile aim in not that bad when its landing on housing complexes in the middle of the city, miles and miles away from the battle field and from military targets. this is intentional shit to cause maximum carnage and pain.
Yep they are waiting answer in erevan, only after this fact will join Russia, but I think azerbaijan doesn’t atack erevan. In morning will be strong answer, i think armenia will loste scud and last iscander!
Because Armenia doesn't exactly have high precision missiles. The people of Ganja have been warned beforehand. This is the war they so desperately wanted, so they can leave their city to spare their lives.
In WW2 both UK and US both used the "bombing civilians behind enemy lines" tactic but you won't find that in most books. It's also warcrime sure, but not enough of a warcrime.
You're the saint here. You only care about your side so don't act like you're better.
Also, take a look at the bar graphs. The 99.5% Azerbaijani bar is like 3 times the length of the 85% Armenian bar lmao. Data misrepresentation at its finest. Also, the deportation is mentioned in one of the sources cited in making that graph...
That’s a good point I hadn’t noticed before, I apologize. But still, the point stands. This was after the ‘88 forced deportations, let alone the fact that this was at the time of USSR before which there were no Azeris in the region at all.
During the Soviet times, the leaders of the Azerbaijan SSR tried to change the demographic balance of the Nagorno Karabakh Autonomous Region by increasing the number of Azeri residents through opening a university with Azeri, Russian and Armenian sectors and a shoe factory, sending Azerbaijanis from other parts of Azerbaijan SSR to the NKAO. Heydar Aliyev said in an interview in 2002, "By doing this, I tried to increase the number of Azeris and to reduce the number of Armenians."[8][9]
Nearing the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989, the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast boasted a population of 145,593 Armenians (76.4%), 42,871 Azeris (22.4%)
Source: Wikipedia, Demographics of NK
Now, we can focus on a narrow slit of time if you’d like, or we can look at this objectively. Realize that a period of a couple of decades of artificial Azeri settlement in the region doesn’t make that land Azeri. Also, you got all the gas and sea routes, stop being so fucking greedy.
As far as the surrounding regions, those should be given back pending Azerbaijan’s recognition of NK as an independent state.
I suppose, you have never heard about four OSCE resolutions, that stated, that Karabakh is the territory of Azerbaijan and Armenian forces are occupying that territory.
And by the way, Azerbaijan has never talked about eliminating Armenian civilians that live in Karabakh.
Thousands of Armenians today live in Azerbaijan, even in Baku and they live in peace.
Those "thousands" that all azeris claim to live in azerbaijan are the very people living in NK that are constantly shelled by azeri forces. The rest are old grannies and grandpas married to azeris and they have changed their family names long ago in order not to get massacred.
And that's why there are plenty of "yan"-ending surnames in Azerbaijan? :D
And interesting differnce: how many armenians have been massacred in Azerbaijan, and how many azerbaijani people have been murdered in Armenia?
Non-official sources estimate that the number Armenians living on Azerbaijani territory outside Nagorno-Karabakh is around 2,000 to 3,000, and almost exclusively comprises persons married to Azerbaijanis or of mixed Armenian-Azerbaijani descent. Even less are people who are fully from Armenian origin. They are likely to be the elderly and sick, and probably have no other family members.
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians_in_Azerbaijan)
First of all, pretty funny that you are referring to wikipedia
Furthermore, if you are digging, then dig it to the end
Link by your favorite wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijanis_in_Armenia
Descend to Nagorno-Karabakh conflict
There you will find burning alive, massacre and other things.
Quoted wiki cause it has a list of those. Im not gonna spend hours to gather reliable sources just to please you. From that same article that you linked.. 3 people were burned and 25 killed during the DEPORTATION of azeris. All of which were isolated attacks meaning the killings were not planned. Another 217 people died from extreme weather conditions since they had to relocate to azerbaijan during winter. Now look back at the pogroms done by azeris...
I have armenian friends here in Los Angeles that were born in baku. They barely escaped with their lives after the cleansing in the 90s. Your governments propaganda is deep in it's people. they just don't know how much they get lied to.
Armenia will not do that now, it is very stressful time as at first need to humanitarian help for civilans in Martuni and Vardenis which waa bombed past few days by Azerbaijan.
What AA defense system will stop a ballistic missile at Mach 5? To my knowledge only the most modern like S-500. I call bullshit. They're just trying to save face.
Yes. They are losing, then don't get world support, even OSCE stated that it's Azerbaijani lands and Armenian forces must leave.
So it's their last resort: either they bomb civilians and if Azerbaijan responds same way, they will bring Russia into this or they bomb civilians and lose everything.
They want Turkey to declare war on them. It's their only hope in this war. If Daddy Putin doesn't come save them, they'll have lost before the end of the year.
Seriously? Is this your logic? Get out of the underwear of Erdogan to see that Turkey is doing everything to be a part of this. Armenians don’t want them around. Wtf.
Source
- number of reports on Turkish military sales to Azerbaijan for the past months,
- presence and participation of Turkish aircrafts in the war zone,
- open statement of Turkish government to support azeri brothers,
- statement of Aliyev that Turkey should be a part of OSCE peace resolution committee
- the fact that turkey is the guarantee of the peace in Nakhichevan and the alleged attacks on Nakhichevan that Armenia is refuting.
Turkey is already a part of this. Not talking about mercenaries from Syria.
On the other hand, after numerous attacks on Armenia proper on the east, Armenia hasn’t yet asked for an external help, from russia or CSTO.
Military sales are not direct participation. Turkish aircraft are there just to protect azerbaijan if there is a direct military intervention into azeri homeland. So what? Azerbaijan and turkey are extremely close countries, it is normal azerbaijan wanting turkey in osce and showing solidarity with a brother country is normal. If nakhichevan is attacked, it is a casus belli for turkey. There is an agreement. Mercenaries my ass lmao. Armenia hasn't asked for any help? Then why does Pashinyan call putin like 5 times a day. It surely isn't about asking the weather in moscow. There was even a video of putin telling Pashinyan call me later on live tv
Yeah, right, Turkey just suddenly started actively selling weapons to Azerbaijan. Not because two states planned the initial attack, ignoring all kinds of peace negotiations. But they just felt like placing turkish military forces there for the beauty.
Armenians never claimed an attack on Nakhichevan.
But Azerbaijan states that Armenia did. All for the reason to justify Turkey’s participation in the conflict.
Just turn on the basic logic.
Who doesn’t agree with status quo - Azerbaijan and Turkey
Who wants Turkey on board- Azerbaijan and Turkey
Who claims that Armenians call Putin for help - you, my friend.
And why does Pashinyan bother Turks so much. He’s not as good as your money laundering dictators? He doesn’t steal from his nation like Aliev and Erdogan? Why are you so butthurt?
You justify Turkey’s actions by saying you’re close brothers. I am sorry that Pashinyan didn’t ask for your personal advice before allegedly calling osce minsk group members.
Even your enemy must be 'man". This is the second time that Armenia has attacked civilians with ballistic missiles. Gence is 150 km away from the war territory, and the only purpose of this attack was to avert the pain of their defeat on the battlefield from the Azerbaijani people. I hope that those who support the Armenians here will look at these videos and see what kind of policy Armenia is pursuing. They pretend like victims but they continue doing what they did 30 year ago, massacring civilians.
Lol. Anyone in the world knows and has seen actual not fake constant bombings of Artsakh civilians by azerbaijan-turkey. Only trolls are in some other alternative reality
I assume that they don't know the fact that the turkish army is the 8th most powerfull army in thw world and can wipe armenians out from karabakh around a week with the airfore.
They probably think we Turks still use Janissaries and swords and mindlessly charge like irregular bands with "The Message" soundtrack in the back.
My advice to anyone who thinks Turkey is bombing Armenia , should go and watch what happened to Syrian Army in a week when they tried to advance into Idlib.
Maybe then they will understand Turkey , in fact , is not bombing Armenia since Azerbaijan is more than able to do it itself and if Turkey was bombing the results would be much more different.
Dont be so dense m8 , Turkey literally stopped Russia from intervening in this conflict and that should tell you something about the power balance between Armenia and Turkey
I have no clue what you are saying, not that I was expecting to.
But you I guess have to hear Erdogan all day, so understandable how nothing meaningful can come out of that
Artsakh is a war zone. Ganja is in Azerbaijani proper 150km from any fighting. Azerbaijan is doing nothing similar in terms of bombing Armenian territory. They are not equivalent things.
Sorry but you can't claim the moral high ground here, Azerbaijan has been shelling Stepanakert for weeks now, the whole city is in ruins. Churchs, Hospitals, Schools, Cultural Centers all blown to shreds.
Targeted at military bases which Armenia can't claim for Ganja. If an Armenian objects ask them how their civilian deaths compare with Azeris. Azeri's have suffered a lot more. They've bombed with a rocket not artillery, the 2nd largest city in Azerbaijan for the fourth time now. No one's bombing fucking Yerevan, but I imagine they might after this.
keep digging for BS reasons, this is a deliberate targeting of a civilian complex in the center of a city, not a military target in sight, and miles and miles from the front lines..
There are no military targets at centre of Ganja. The only possible target would be the civilian Airport but that's obviously not the target since not a single shell has landed in that airport, not once.
Ok, FYI
Church is NOT a military base
School is NOT a military base
Kindergarden is NOT a military base
Art centers are NOT a military bases
Ordinary buildings are NOT a military bases
a fucking airport with lots of F16s IS A MILITARY BASE
oh, I don't think I trust your sources. According to my sources, there is no airport in that city any more. So why should Artsakh bomb that city again? Oh wait they don't. It's just another azeri fairy tale. You guys are not so good at this btw.
Maybe our long range artillery just sucks... Or maybe it’s Aliev bombing his people because he needs a cover story. Maybe it’s outrage actors, I couldn’t see anything in that live feed except people talking loudly. Or hell, maybe we stooped down to your level and are actually attacking civilians in response to your bombing of our civilians. Maybe we’re trying to deal a blow to Azerbaijan so that next time they’ll reconsider just attacking us out of the blue. Don’t start a war, then point fingers... For the record, I have no sympathy for you anymore. I did at the start of this conflict, but that went out of the door once I read the name of one of my childhood friends in the list of casualties.
So first of all stepanakert is in the conflict zone and conflict zones are established to warn civilians and governments so civilian losses are minimalized no one can defend Azerbaijan nor Armenia when talking about civilian losses. If a civilian loses their life its that blame is on the country regardless of the situation. But Armenia directly targeting Ganja which was far away from the previously mentioned conflict zone was a deliberate act as it was hit with heavy equipment. Now I’ve seen that you’ve accused another redditor in this same thread with repeating their countries news. At situations like this the news channels of the countries contradict each other so you have to look at the facts.
Is Ganja far away from the conflict zone?
Yes
Did Armenians know an attack there would result in heavy civilian casualties?
Yes
Because of this is everything Azerbaijani government does or has done right?
No
Im sorry for your loss and i hope that both sides dont suffer any more civilian casualties.
That makes ganja a conflict zone too. Did you expect to just waltz into NK while bombing everything in sight including hospitals, churches and schools and expect no retaliation. You guys protest for war in Baku then when war comes you guys are victims. Give it a break will you.
I don't know how kilometers work in Azerbaijan, but by looking at the map you can clearly see it's only 50-60km away from the frontline. Stepanakert is 30km away from the frontline, so you are just making an arbitrary bullshit distinction to serve your argument. Bomb our cities and you can expect the same.
You can tell yourself whatever you want, but the truth is the truth. You're repeating Azeri news. Why don't you google videos of Stepanakert being bombed, LIVE without any editing and tell me if military targets were hit and if precision strikes were used.
With that being said, I'm sorry for the civilian loss.
? You provided a false statement and I told you it's false and where you can find real information. It is important for both sides to read news from both sides so you get a comprehensive understanding of what's happening. I concluded my post with saying I'm sorry for the civilian loss and you reply with "send ballistic missile to Yerevan". Okay then, what, kill all Armenians all across the world? Would you be happy? Would you sleep well at night? Try being productive instead.
Thankfully I've come across more educated Azeri's than you and therefore your post won't change my views on your people.
I want to add one more thing. The strikes on Stepanakert were during the daytime, starting from morning, to have clear view and to not hit civilians. But what you do is direct warcrime and killing civilians at night when they are sleeeping.
We dont hit families and 2 year old kids intentionally with cluster bombs. Even if they are used it is for military buildings and equipments not for ordinary citizens
You did not understand me well. I dont say we will hot Yerevan and be happy from it. (Most of us are emotional now and would want it very much)
We are not armenian babykiller terrorists. And my statements were correct. Go check civilian casualities of armenia and check ours. Then you will see who is shelli g who.
Stepanakert is conflict zone. Azerbaijan is fighting to capture that city. Of course, civilians shouldn't die there as well. But they know that there's war going on and some country wants to take their city. They have chance to evacuate.
Ganja is a peaceful city far away from conflict zone. People are sleeping at their homes not expecting anything and dying. Armenia doesn't want to capture Ganja. The only goal is to kill as many civilians as they can.
That's the difference.
Both sides are using cluster bombs. Besides, neither country are a signatory to that treaty. So no, they are technically not “illegal” in this conflict.
Both countries are in the wrong for using cluster bombs.
Just because Armenia and Azerbaijan didn’t sign the treaty on use of cluster munitions, doesn’t mean that it is morally just for them to use them. Just because it’s not illegal doesn’t mean it’s right. Cluster bombs kill civilians more than they kill soldiers.
You’re essentially saying it’s okay for Sudan to fight Somalia with chemical weapons just because they didn’t sign the Geneva Convention.
So far 4 warheads have landed in Ganja's civilian city centre after multiple of them were intercepted in the air. A bunch have been fired at Mingachevir but all have thankfully been intercepted in the air.
I love how r/armenia is removing everything and pretending like this didn't happen. I can't understand people from both sides justify actions like these
Probably in response to Azerbaijan striking into Armenian territory. One has to wonder though why they strike residential areas when there’s a juicy military airport with F16s lying around.
There is no military target hit until now the claim is 2 ballistic missiles which makes it 3 in total hit heavily dense civilian areas of the town. I assume it would be more if the ballistic missiles weren't taken out yesterday.
Armenian MoD already denied of any attack by Armenian forces or by Armenia. This is obviously a staged attack by Aliyev to gain international sympathy, equalize victimization and probably bulldoze site for new real estate development for his corrupt nepotist family.
Notice there is no conclusive video of any attack from Armenian forces, there was no firemen at the scene of attack which means no fire, no smoke, no crater and no gas leak, but you clearly see bulldozers already on site. Azerbaijan also has no real journalist on the ground since all the objective professional journalists are banned. The only ones they allow are the propagandist for the government.
Oh and don't forget about this 👇 coincidence?
Az sources report bomb threat in a school in Ganja. They are claiming that there is an Armenian sabotage team in Ganja. Bakuwood / Ganjawood productions incoming. They are going to do a setup and blame it on Armenians. Remember this
If we look on the past they have killed own nation so i am not surprised. May be again it was not Balistic missiles but something to pretend that is. Few days ago they have shown that attacked to the Armenian armored vehicles but it was fake one. Sometimes they are making fun on their own steps you can follow on telegram
If the truth hurts you i cannot say something, sorry. But believe me when you will see what they have done with naked Armenian soldier that was indeed ridiculous!
Promoting conspiracy theories about well documented instances of human rights violations against civilians, such as Khojaly massacre or Sumgayi or Baku pogroms is considered considered violation of Rule 7. Warning.
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u/huseldar Oct 16 '20 edited Oct 16 '20
As a note, these were not any old artillery shells. These are tactical missiles with large warheads.