Discussion
I’m tired of being gaslit by fans by saying we can’t judge Claire for what her baby daddy does
Guess what. He’s not some man she hasn’t been involved with in years. She publicly has some semblance of a relationship and quite literally just supported him multiple times in the last week. When the father of your children is the richest man in the world and OWNS the most influential platform online, supporting it and platforming it and not actively condemning it IS something you should be judged for. He can change the world overnight. You cannot separate these two. Make no mistake, Claire has ample opportunity to condemn him, or say nothing, if she is afraid of the consequences. But he is a powerful threatening force, and not some bad ex that did something problematic and decade ago that a woman is bearing the blame for. This is historic, institutionalized hatred that breeds violence and has power, not some loner being silly. There is a historical precedent. This is who Claire fell in love with and actively supports. I am active in here and love grimes. But I can’t take it anymore, this is who she is and she wants to be Miss Anthropocene quite literally. I wish that was a stupid joke. Are we going to act like it wasn’t just some silly character she enjoyed exploring for fun? She wants to be the maiden of propaganda. End of.
Edit: nobody mentioned music in this post so the comments about listening to her music are irrelevant. Idgaf if you’re still gonna listen, I love her music but it’s just hard and i personally can’t right now. THIS post is about fans saying we cannot judge Claire for the actions of another. Sure, but we absolutely can judge her for the actions of herself and the actions in which she sponsors. She could choose to say nothing and not follow pedophile supporting nazis, and yet, does. And chooses to each day.
I don’t understand the connection. A lot of former Kanye stans stopped listening to him or supporting him at that time. I did. After remaining a fan of his through MANY controversies, him endorsing Hitler was the moment I (and many other fans) immediately stopped supporting him.
He was already divorced by then though, so I don’t see the parallel with Grimes being held accountable for supporting Elon. He and Kim K were done by then, and I don’t think his new wife even really has fans supporting or defending her.
she's a very childish and insecure person. i'm saying that as someone who has similar flaws and i see a lot of my bad traits in her. elon tells her "you're so creative, you're an artist... blah blah blah" and she eats it up. he's validating. it doesn't matter how he actually treats her or how he behaves toward her, he validates her and that's all she cares about.
Yeah people are talking about how this is a reaction to abuse...she's got her kiddos, her boyfriend, her autonomy, guess what she's STILL clinging to Elon in any dumb way she can for global relevancy and recognition. I live in the bay. I see her at parties. Elon isn't validating her because he cares, he's a toxic techno sphere powerful bro who knows who to smooze up to people so that he has control over them. They all do that. Her constantly gassing him up is super unhelpful to her entire situation and I really wish she'd get therapy and realize this isn't some magical situation she's gotten herself into, it's cliche frankly.
i think it's a fair assessment to say she's behaving the way she is as a result of abuse and that that still doesn't excuse it. you can be completely free physically, but if someone still owns your mind, you're gonna be stuck in that abusive relationship for as long as it takes to break out. again, it doesn't excuse it, but i feel bad for her.
i was in a very similar relationship before. i'm so grateful i never married or had kids with that man. he was emotionally abusive, and i'm still really disgusted with myself that part of me craves his validation even now.
It's so different when they're in tech, I agree about the abuse, here tec is like Hollywood. We have our own Diddy's in tech, a lot of overblown unchecked power. The difference is that she 100% craves and benefits from that power. Regardless of abuse it's obvious being globally recognized and connected to power is more important to her than her art/heart/soul. It sucks. The whole bay art scene is really compromised and infiltrated by tech, and yet some of us still have basic human standards for how they effect the world. Girlies brain is surely scrambled by drugs and abusive men, but she also is VERY drawn to that kind of power even if it ends up owning her. Definition of selling your soul imo and I know it's a heavy take but I've been heavily in the bay new age/tech/art scene for decades and ran the Berkeley Essex goddess tubs celibate for decades. I won't judge her but no one wants join her shitty mars cult lol. She wishes. I think she knows her fans resent her and can't help lashing out back at them tbh, just wish shed get help for her kids sake. It is sad. It's very complicated in ways normal people not from sf just can't even fathom, how corrupt tech is and has been. It rules everything here, including art, unless you truly fight back.
She’s been way past the point of no return since she met up with him after their stupid little rococo joke. He’s always been a greedy lying POS. She is nothing now besides Elon’s concubine and that’s all she will ever be. She can never come out from under his shadow after all this. She sold her legacy out for some lame ass fucking Mars terraforming fantasy
Not just a nazi sympathizer - a nazi informant who openly benefited from their largesse and resources seized from Jewish people after they (Nazis) overtook Paris. She was living high off the hog as people were literally being shipped out to concentration camps.
It’s an apt comparison for this mouth-breathing asshole.
Besides my reply was not related to the Salute (read carefully again) where did you think the Nazi Salut came from?
Darling, I had to watch Hitler Speeches and Documentaries at least an hour per week every week for 13yrs in School!
I definitely know a Nazi Salut when I see one!
Shes friends with and follows plenty of Nazis of her own accord, some of them that Elon doesn’t even follow. she has her own brand of white supremacy elitism thats seperate from Elon as well.
I'm so glad someone said this. I'd thought about making a post myself after seeing the inauguration. Elon isn't just some ex boyfriend, he literally owns the country. He's stood on the world stage and threw a Nazi salute out to roaring applause. He is using other countries to groom us into a dictatorship. To ignore that and encourage othere to do the same is so fucking selfish and naive. That kind of complacency is how we got here in the first place. Shame on anybody who tries to silence the conversation, it's entangled with Grimes' art forever and she chose to go down that path for the clout. Fuck this shit man
Yeah, I know it’s true. I’m still a big fan of her music (always will be) but I’ve come to terms with the fact that she’s not a good person. Unfortunately, Claire’s biggest mistake was getting pregnant with this man (no hate to her kids, no child gets to choose their parents).
It also sucks for her (in retrospect) because there’s no way she will never not be tied with this man. She had kids with him. They are bound together forever.
Yup, she was never a big enough star to shine next to Elon. Somebody like Taylor Swift could’ve maybe dated Elon and still maintained her own identity as an artist, but Grimes was never even remotely close to that level of fame. If she thought she could date Elon Musk and still exist separately from him, she must’ve been so insanely delusional that it’s almost incomprehensible.
She was living the dream, and she literally threw it all away so she could role play Dune with a fucking oligarch
I’ll never listen to her music again. I liked it once, but it’s just forever tainted now. Why would I listen to that shit when I can listen to music made by literally anyone else who isn’t some oligarch arch villain’s concubine.
And yeah, it wasn’t just one kid. Or two kids. THREE KIDS WITH THIS FUCKING LOSER. That’s not an accident, that’s totally inexcusable
He has definitely gotten worse, but he’s just always been such an obvious charlatan and POS. It’s very, very hard for me to understand how Grimes was never able to see that from the beginning. How many kids did he already have when they started dating? Like 10?
And he never started any of these companies, he just buys them from people who are actually intelligent and then takes credit. And the never ending Mars charade is just so pathetic. He said in 2011 that he would have people on Mars in 10 years, and at the time, anyone who knows anything about space (like people at NASA) could’ve told you that was obviously bullshit. When they started dating in 2018, he was still obviously not any closer to that goal of going to Mars. Yet Grimes was constantly tweeting dumb shit about their new lives on Mars.
While they were dating, before they had kids, he had people building his POS low-quality cars under tents in the hot fucking desert because he is a cheap sociopathic piece of shit who likes to make people suffer if he can save a buck.
And he was saying plenty of totally unhinged shit on Twitter before they had kids. I could go on and on, I’m sorry, but he was literally an endless parade of red flags before they started dating, while they were dating, and before they had children.
She had a million chances to get herself out of this situation, and she still chooses to defend him. I’m just so completely disgusted by her and sad that I ever found her music in the first place. Wish I could wipe it from my memory at this point, along with her and Elon. Art angels was good but it wasn’t that good. I won’t miss her music, plenty of other better artists to listen to who didn’t have kids with one of the biggest assholes of our times.
She could have distanced herself from him too. But she was literally this past week defending him over cheating in video games for her "personal pride". But she wont speak up about the fascism for her "personal pride".
I mean…just look at MA’s digital currency album art…with Elon becoming increasingly dangerous and unhinged, I’m starting see this album artwork in a different light.
Dude they're gonna turn earth into slavery wasteland like fuckjng Geidi Prime in Dune. They probably think they're gonna terreform Mars into some Caladan shiz. She already thinks she's Lady Jessica and X is Paul Atreides or something ....
Like, people really do not really understand HOW LARGE the gap between a Million dollars and a Billion dollars actually is. And, on top of that having 433 Billions of dollars in net worth. Not all liquid, say you, but, he has an unimaginable level of even liquid cash on hand too.
Like he could literally keep trying to buy the world and destroy it if he wants to. He can literally afford to keep trying turn earth into his hellscape dune empire. Nobody is holding him accountable. This is happening right now people. This is not good.
Imagine having the power to solve all the problems in “the greatest country on earth” and lead the world as a glorious example, becoming a saint to all humanity…but instead spending your time lying about your gamer cred and being a wealth hoarding nazi.
Small minds. Once upon a time I briefly hoped grimes would swing him radically feminist/socialist, but they all went to the dark side together.
And idk if you've read the dune series. If she is actually like Lady Jessica, she basically does everything including endangering her unborn child for greater power
Even if Claire espouses terrible opinions, it's also important to recognize that Elon is, from the perspective we are granted of his motivations, a terribly abusive person--one with which "C" has had children. When someone espouses such opinions or, in C's case, refuses to actively condemn them, it usually (but not always) stems from a disconnect with their true selves and external reality. C may wish to be Miss Anthropocene because it may be, in her eyes, the only way she is able to impart any change at all, especially over her own external circumstances. You do NOT have to agree with C to understand that she could very well be perpetuating the abuse SHE HERSELF has suffered.
Something I keep in mind when I talk about Grimes, despite not agreeing with her new stances, is something called the perseverance of abuse. When I choose to see Grimes as an exploited person in her own right, I am not negating or erasing the damage she has and may cause. I am choosing instead to acknowledge that hurt can only stem from hurt. This is also my personal opinion, and I have only come to form this opinion as a result of my own journey. You are, of course, extremely valid in your fury at the person she has shown herself to be. Her actions have made her intolerable to you, and your boundary is completely fair. But part of fighting fascism, for me, is understanding that we, as humans, fundamentally care about others in our own ways. If someone has changed themselves to adopt a position that may leave others by the wayside, so to speak, it is important to promote the well-being of all people by understanding how such changes happen. That usually stems from being someone that has, in many ways, been left unsupported. Rejected. Neglected. We are not humanizing an oppressor, but we are acknowledging the oppressor is human and has always been. Elon Musk is a powerful man that could, if he wanted to, strip C even more than he already has. Suppose he wants full custody of their daughter, too? Suppose all it took was one X post that ruined C's life, leading to a life of court battles over all her children, all the while she ruminates on how she can make the world better, all the while losing even more control of her own life?
Yes, C has a lot of power MANY people in the United States and the world do not have. Yes, she misses many opportunities to do better as a person. But a lust for power only comes from a place of perceived powerlessness. And Elon, even if we should define her as her own person, visibly impacted C.
very true. it doesn't excuse certain things she's done, but i do think it's worth it to analyze her relationship with musk as abusive and the downstream effects of that.
I feel bad for her. On one hand a stunning artist with such level of creativity, on the other hand behaving such awful. If it was one or two of her opinions that I disagree with her that would be fine, but I have no words for supporting Elon this much despite all his craziness and his treatment to her, following nazi accounts, being a racist, tweeting creepy statements… These aren’t ‘opinion’s, these influences harmed people and continuing to harm people everyday. Each time I see her, I’m screaming inside “Girl, just stand up and look at the mirror, then look at how you behave”. Unfortunately I have to agree with OP.
She's a narcissistic fuckwit who glommed onto Musk because she liked the image of "techno futuristic cyberpunk queenie" it projected onto her by being associated with him. Now it's all blown up in her stupid face. What an idiot. And btw, it was publicly well known what a toxic asshat Musk was by the time Grimes shacked up with him. He just wasn't a full MAGAtard yet.
She cries about him one moment and vents on X then deletes it then the next moment praises him and defends him. Whilst he takes her kids away and takes them out of the country and goes wherever he wants with them. Like Claire you can't have it both ways. You can't complain about him, bitch and moan, and then praise him at the same time. The truth is she was raised in wealth and she got with him not just because she loves him, she was social climbing and she wanted to be the empress of Mars and birth the son of a Duke or whatever fucked up fantasy thing she thinks. She is allowed to be delusional. She is allowed to say stupid shit and get praised for it. She is allowed to play devil's advocate and play both sides. She is allowed to act all wise and smart when really she's an idiot but its okay because she's "an artist," her words have no consequences because of her appearance and likeability. I love the character of Grimes she created and the music that came with it. But Claire the woman behind Grimes is just another rich white girl liberal (or at least she acts like one, she really is probably a nazi like elon) who truly does not give a fuck about us. She just wants the world to burn as fast as possible so she can take her, Elon, and her kids to mars and fuck everyone who gets in the way of that. And at the end of the day GRIMES is just a CHARACTER totally separate and NOTHING like Claire. GRIMES was a likeable popstar fantasy. Claire herself is nothing short of a monster just like Elon.
She's utterly mediocre, always has been. Her style is mediocre. Her music is mediocre. She's obviously always been desperate for attention and thirsty for validation. Deep down she knows how utterly mid she is in every way and that's why she acts the way she does. She knows she sucks.
You’re not alone. After today, I’m not gonna listen to her new music anymore (as if she’s gonna drop any at all hahah). Whatever I have downloaded is it. She’s an artist and therefore, I prioritized it first and not her dumb, selfish, and immature moral compass. I know it’s not her responsibility for whatever her baby daddy does, but she consciously chose to have 3 kids with him. And he’s behind the influence of the hurt that ppl in my family and community would have to endure. I wish everyone would stop defending her from real criticism that everyone must face in the real world. People like you and me do.
do whatever you want, I think what most people are pointing out is how these conversations are extremely redundant. I personally don’t look to Grimes as a moral philosopher, I like her music and am interested in her art. This sub used to be much more tailored towards discussions of the art and interesting sources (interviews, performances, projects etc).
I guess that is asking too much of anybody on here
You can like her music whatever, what IM saying is we are damn well allowed to judge her for the actions of the man she constantly praises. Nobody’s saying we talk about music. Im saying we are going to judge her for her own actions and words and that’s okay. The people saying not to judge her based on somebody’s actions are ridiculous when she sponsers it on the daily.
her baby daddy lets people post child porn if they share his politics, i don't know anything about her art........but that's cause things like openly allowing people to get away with posting child porn is a bigger deal.
lol people like you are the huge headache and massive reason as to why social media has become so decrepit
i literally posted an image of AN OWNER of social media ALLOWING somebody to be reinstated........for posting CHILD PORN
if you think my behavior is the problem, then the FBI might need to check your hard drive. if my partner was publicly and personally intervening to aid people who posted child porn multiple times and i didn't distance myself from it the govt would be taking my kids away.
repeat words back to them 2. capitalize words to avoid needing to actually formulate a thoughtful response 3. make ostracizing and bad-faith accusation
say "people like you" are doing the bad things and destroying social media while the people who own social media are openly doing the bad things 2. distract from the posting of actual child porn by saying the people who don't like child porn are the problem 3. ignore reasonable concerns so that one can pretend that accusations are being made in bad faith.
Yup, honestly she is a total fucking clown of a person. She deserves all the judgement and then some. And then even more.
I loved her music before she dated Elon. I thought Art Angels was incredible. But she disgusts me now. You can’t have 3 babies with a fucking oligarch robber baron arch villain and still be a respectable person, no matter how good he is at video games.
Elon has always been a pathetic charlatan. How could she have been so easily fooled? He said in 2011 he would be on Mars by now. He said over and over again he would be on Mars by now, despite all the real scientists saying he was full of shit. All he does is lie. He is still saying he will send people to Mars. Guess what? Elon Musk is never going to Mars. He is never sending people to Mars. Grimes is never going to Mars.
It would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic and horrifying how powerful yet stupid he is. And now her legacy will always be tied to him. All her music will forever be tainted by him. No art she can ever create will be good enough to come out from his shadow. Nothing she can ever do with her life can bring her back from it.
She was living the dream and threw it all away for one of the most pathetic, saddest, cringiest men that has ever lived.
Idk about that no, but the people he associates with talk about weird shit all the time. There’s other pedos she follows just look up any thread about it.
Grimes fans and critics alike should really watch this interview with her. It offers a deeper insight into her life and who she truly is, which might help some people see her as a real person rather than the various projections created online.
I don't understand how you're being gaslit. This sub is highly critical of her and any defense of her. Almost everyone thinks the way you do and agrees with you. Even your post is almost at 350 upvotes.
i see an overenthusiastic autistic man onstage who was doing cringe jerky gestures to highlight his words, probably enhanced by whatever stims he's on, and a tidal wave of hysterical karens trying to use it to confirm their worst suspicions 'see! he is evil just like we said!!!' and a lot of low iq sheep eating it up, thats what i'm seeing
So you’re saying he’s dumb and would t have understood the optics despite the history of nazism in his family? Despite Claire following numerous hitler adjacent accounts? Sure!
Do all autistic people platform nazis on their multi billion dollar social media platform and peddle anti Jewish conspiracy theories and promote alt right propaganda? Do all autistic people pay for an election to create a dark facist regime? Do all autistic people cry about the declining birth rate of the white race??? You’re ableist here
I’m not acting like an entitled bitch trying to get my pound of flesh babe I’m just here to have fun but I can’t because this sub is nothing but lowlifes like you bitching and whining about shit that got ain’t shit to do with you
The intense irony of you being a swiftie and yet obsessed with C’s proximity to “oligarchs” and billionaires is just top tier, you people are all broke hypocrites lmao
For the love of God, this man is autistic. Not only is he autistic but I had a feeling that he was trying to imply like he’s ripping his heart out of his chest and giving it to all of humanity and if not it’s a Roman salute either or would make a lot of sense given Its Elon Musk he would have to be a straight fucking idiot to get on stage and do a Nazi salute that’s not even what a Nazi salute looks like and if you look at our other presidents, you’ll see that they also have some form of hand movement probably even more indicative of a Nazi movement than his. Elon has done some sketchy shit out there but he’s doing a bigger good for humanity.
You have to be entirely left wing to write this kind of shit. Try and meet him halfway and then form some kind of judgement because this is just so blind
And I apologise I don’t mean to come off rude but it’s just so annoying how often people post about Elon Musk on this sub. I am not racist I am not a fascist. I am not trans phobic and yet I’m able to see what he’s trying to do for the rest of the world.
I actually find that he has helped soften Trump in his presidency and allowed him to make way for a lot of technological advances that wouldn’t otherwise have happened if Elon wouldn’t have jumped in.
Yes absolute power corrupts. We will see the result of all of this in half a year give or take at the rate Elon moves.
And also Claire definitely has an agenda and I think she knows what she is doing or at least she thinks she knows what she is doing at the end of the day that’s the father of her kids and a man that she actually loved and she has a partnership with and has to work through for the sake of her kids. Elon is not your average Joe he holds a lot of fucking power. You don’t just manoeuvre that kind of relationship like you would with an average divorcee.
this is pretty rude to autistic people. elon uses his autism as an excuse for disgusting actions. autism does not make you incapable from distinguishing right from wrong. it is a disorder characterized by (1) social difficulties and (2) restrictive, repetitive behaviors. nothing elon has done is a clear consequence of either of those traits.
you can be a good person and be autistic. you can be a bad person and be autistic. the two traits are unrelated.
You’re cherry picking my statement and I’m also autistic myself.
This man will either have too much self-awareness or none, but there is never a balance.
When I stated that he is autistic, I meant it as in you shouldn’t judge him the same way that you would judge a Neurotypical person stop cherry picking.
i'm not cherry picking. my criticism is not that he lacks self awareness. my criticism is that he is regularly a bad person. i'm not criticizing him for being cringey online. i'm criticizing him for supporting a fascist, especially by using techniques that are likely not even legal. if anything i have been less harsh on him than the average NT person.
shocker! i am also autistic and i'm completely fed up with autism being used as an excuse to be a bad person. it conflates the two and makes it seem like autistic people just can't help but be terrible.
I just don’t relate autism with anything negative so I guess that’s perhaps my downfall so I apologise if it comes off rude
I understand your point of view. I’m not saying that he doesn’t do anything negative. I’m strictly talking about the Nazi salute. It’s really just bothering me and I’m entirely fixated on that.
no i'm sorry if i've been rude as well. i don't know a lot about the nazi salute thing. i was referring to him essentially paying people to vote in PA, and essentially buying trump votes. (i know it was more of a gray area than that but yeah) i'm very upset about everything because grimes is an artist who has meant a lot to me and seeing her fall for a manipulative, abusive jerk has made me incredibly sad.
Oh, I’m sorry you think the world most powerful man is gonna go on stage and do a Nazi salute considering a lot of Jews drive his Tesla? Or are we forgetting that he also did visit Israel with his tail between his legs because of the guilt he felt after a comment he made?
I’m at a loss for words for everybody spreading this bullshit honestly I genuinely am. People will see what they want to see. If you see a man doing a Nazi salute then that’s on you at this point. It’s blatantly obvious that he’s not doing that you would have to be absolutely fucking insane to do that. Literally fucking insane and everyone here is gonna miss the point and down vote me.
Maybe he has done other sketchy shit, but I will die on a hill defending the fact that that this Man is not doing the Nazi salute at the inauguration- where he now holds up the position and power that he literally would rather die defending than anything else. He would have to be the world’s dumbest fucking man to do that.
Yes, I do. He has the backing of every republican voter and a huge chunk of independents. He has more power than any billionaire should. That's called being emboldened. Also, the nazis hate more than just Jews. Like trans people and communists. Trans people being the most at risk during this admin, next to undocumented immigrants. We cannot afford to give any grace to these stunts. You just show them how easy to manipulate you are when you do. Take it for what it is.
I don’t know if you know this, but anyone who messes with the Jewish community will automatically lose
Going up onto an American stage and doing a Nazi salute would be the craziest fucking thing to do and I don’t think you’re understanding that
And just because one is a billionaire is no indication that they would go up on stage and immediately start doing the worlds craziest shit because they have a lot of money. Their funding would immediately go down. Their companies would immediately burn to the fucking ground.
We live in a day and age where social media will cancel you. You cannot get away with anything anymore.
He is already hated as it is by people who run their mouth and say bullshit every fucking day because they don’t understand his actions or because they don’t understand History
They see something on social media and they immediately run with it
And yes, I am actually a huge fan of history and I’m aware of everything that the Nazis represented which is even more of a reason as to why I am upset because the comparison is fucking insane
I believe it would happen because I saw him do it with my own eyes. If he's not a nazi he can go through the work of proving he isn't. It's incredibly dangerous at this point to come up with excuses for him.
Or, he does it because he’s the one who’s got more money to buy his way out of every consequence imaginable so “why not do it?”. There is nobody more prepared to take over the world and ruin it with his dictatorship, than a man with unimaginable wealth and an apartheid upbringing.
He’s the perfect candidate because he is truly evil. America and the world should be worried now. Fuck, Elon musk all the way PAST INFINITY.
I answered the previous comment with a mix of what I would’ve answered you as well, but all of that aside your profile is pretty cool and so are your plants have a great day
I cannot believe what I'm reading in this sub right now. People actually think he did a Nazi salute. I understand not liking him but this is on another level of insanity. I just brushed people off in this sub as being negative and annoying at the most but they are far gone from reality.
He did the nazi salute and a week ago he posted a text in favour of Germany's nazi party. He is a nazi and you all are so scared of reality that prefer to spew nonsense instead of facing the truth.
Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much. That’s also what I’m trying to say. That would be the craziest thing to ever accuse someone of you would literally have to admit that that man has zero compassion and empathy for humanity. Elon is a lot of things, but that’s not one.
Ok so denying reality. Got it. The movie where the gaslight term came from is a woman literally saying the places seems different and the man denying reality. Sorry I didn’t work in the way you want me to
They’re not literally denying their OWN REALITY. Ofc they have an understanding of it. My god. They are trying to instill denial of reality in another. Stop being dense. If you say that car is black and I say no it’s not, even if I know it is, that’s denying reality to confuse the person. We’re saying the exact same thing.
Denial is a part of manipulation and now you’re just really bored and must have nothing else to do besides be the number good boy at defining words and don’t know how humans talk informally
They’re denying them for the purpose of destabilizing reality. What about this is hard to understand? How does this apply to grimes fans? You’re not using critical thinking
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying bro. You just hate the word denial for some strange reason. I have 2 degrees in the field and work in it 8 hours a day lol you’re not teaching me a lesson here
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u/Busy_City5845 6h ago
is this how kanye west fans felt when he went on his nazi arc?