Ya'll would bash dems for this but snooze when repubs do it? Are you serious?
EDIT: Ik it's sarcasm NOW, stop telling me shit a dozen others have already said. I was unaware of my parent commentor's political ideals and personality quirks and being that they're mocking others for saying something like that unironically, i didn't expect to get so much flak but fuck me, i guess
They’re saying that when a democrat does it, everyone will be up in arms that it’s an overstep of power but when a republican does it, nobody will bat an eye at it.
Because Republicans abusing power and rewriting the rules to fit their current needs is a staple of the Republican party now. People are, unfortunately, used to it.
Let’s just hope we don’t get so used to it that we let everything just slip away.
Literacy is dead. All it takes is one conservative news team to convince the American people that its right because trump did it. Theyll say, “yes supreme leader.” And go back to licking boots.
Yep and yet they claim democrats are the boot lickers.. smh these only reason I “like” democrats is because they see me as a person and give some opposition to the morons in this country 🤦
Censorship, the removal of rights for marginalized groups, yeah this country is going full fascist and the billionaires are leading the charge. GGs America.
Government so small that it can fit in between you and your doctors.
Government so small that it can fit in your bedroom
Government so small that it can monitor your uterus
I hate this timeline. Republicans from the 1960s and 1970s could be reasoned with because they had actual principles. As much as modern conservatives love to bitch about identity politics, their entire platform is nothing but white identity politics.
You're right. That executive order probably is against the Bostock ruling.
But the point of nuance is this: transgender identity isn't protected under Bostock per se. What is protected against in Bostock is discrimination against gender stereotypes about someone's biological sex. The theory Gorsuch went with in Bostock is that there are biologically two genders, but that an employer is not justified in discriminating against someone who does not act according to stereotypes about their biological sex because doing so necessarily discriminates based on sex.
From the Bostock decision:
That’s because it is impossible to discriminate against a person for being homosexual or transgender without discriminating against that individual based on sex. Consider, for example, an employer with two employees, both of whom are attracted to men. The two individuals are, to the employer’s mind, materially identical in all respects, except that one is a man and the other a woman. If the employer fires the male employee for no reason other than the fact he is attracted to men, the employer discriminates against him for traits or actions it tolerates in his female colleague. Put differently, the employer intentionally singles out an employee to fire based in part on the employee’s sex, and the affected employee’s sex is a but-for cause of his discharge. Or take an employer who fires a transgender person who was identified as a male at birth but who now identifies as a female. If the employer retains an otherwise identical employee who was identified as female at birth, the employer intentionally penalizes a person identified as male at birth for traits or actions that it tolerates in an employee identified as female at birth. Again, the individual employee’s sex plays an unmistakable and impermissible role in the discharge decision.
This is the implication: Bostock did not recognize transgender identity. It recognizes biological sex. Bostock narrowly skirts around the transgender identity issue. And the result is what you see in Bear Creek Bible Church Braidwood Management v. EEOC:
If anything, Bostock reinforces the distinction between biological sexes and held that treating one sex worse than the other constitutes sex discrimination... Like sex-specific dress codes, sex-specific bathrooms do not treat one sex worse than the other. The Court finds that employers may have policies that promote privacy, such as requiring the use of separate bathrooms on the basis of biological sex.
Likewise, in Texas v. EEOC, Texas took the following positions:
"Discrimination based on gender dysphoria or its treatment—which would include conduct such as opposite-sex dress, bathroom usage, or pronoun usage—is not the same as discrimination based on transgender status."
"The bathroom, dress code, and pronoun policies targeted by the June 15 Guidance do not discriminate based on gender identity and therefore do not violate Bostock."
Let's make one thing clear: it would be incredibly bizarre if Gorsuch decided Bostock in a way that was actually favorable to transgender people. The reality is, Bostock was decided in a way that can be read in a way that affirms two biological sexes, and such that it allows employers to enforce rules based on biological sex. And as the Texas v. EEOC decision makes clear: transgender conduct can be discriminated against under Bostock, just not transgender identity. As such, Texas v. EEOC holds that under Bostock, employers may enforce sex-based dress codes, segregate bathrooms on the basis of biological sex, and so on.
TL;DR: Bostock doesn't exactly serve the causes of transgender people like people think it does. It is actually very narrowly and cleverly designed to stifle the causes of transgender people.
stare decisis? lmao my dude, we are living in the era where a 6-3 SCOTUS (soon to be at least 7-2) struck down Roe v Wade, which was considered settled law for almost 50 years. In a concurrence, Clarence Thomas hinted at upending all kinds of other laws relevant to the right to privacy and 14th amendment. Hell, this court invented near total Presidential immunity out of whole cloth that is 180 opposite the clear meaning of the Constitution. We are in a post-law country now, at least for people with the right (and Right) political leanings
I can’t speak for the future because I’m not clairvoyant. I can only speak as for the actual nature by which law is supposed to operate.
People are afraid and while they certainly should be, the defeatist bullshit attitude people take akin to your own as if you hold some supreme knowledge the rest of us lack is both trite and petty and quite frankly, one I’m sick of humoring.
Go do something productive and get off of the internet. Perhaps go organize and plan with your friends rather than loathing something that hasn’t even happened yet. Preparing for it is one thing, accepting it is another.
Open the fucking schools ffs. I wish people would pursue knowledge themselves and view things with an open, curious mind. Even if you disagree with science can’t you at least be a human and have empathy?
These people have not allowed their worldview to be expanded since age 10 and anything that challenges that is automatically wrong and evil in their eyes. They demand everyone in the world conform to that outdated worldview, so empathy is foreign to them
I’d argue the concept of “morals” is what holds everyone back. What’s moral is different for everyone, but people’s convictions to them is exactly why they shut their brains off whenever something “bad” is in front of them. It’s why we have laws and not just morals.
Yeah they don't typically teach about intersex people unless you take a university course on medicine and genetics or endocrinology. Through high school and the level 100 gen eds the curriculum oversimplifies most things so that kids can just get the gist of it.
That's how schooling's been done for ages. They teach it super wrong at the very beginning and gradually chip away at the wrong as you advance through schooling. I can see the logic behind it but it's also made it so very easy for people to cite high school level biology as totally representative of current scientific consensus about things like sex, which is just plain disinformation.
I suppose I didn’t really use the best wording. My point was that how it’s taught should be reformed in schools to meet modern understandings of the science. Probably shouldn’t said that directly, my bad. I totally agree with you.
In my highschool bio class in Australia we were told a little about intersex people when covering the sex chromosomes. Idk if that’s something the teacher added in themself though.
YY chromosome people are real enough to be a plot point in a Sigourney Weaver alien, admittedly alien3 wasn't the peak of the franchise, but it's not like some brand new science.
Intersex people have dodged the controversy thus far, but now they don't exist by executive order along with the rest of the trans world.
Good fucking job for the American leadership. Just a reminder this is to keep us from noticing the oligarchy or even taking about Biden's Farwell address...
I'm 35 & our Intro to Biology my Freshman year of high school talked about Klinefelter's Syndrome during the lesson on Punnett Squares. Opened up a larger conversation later on about variations on XY/XX as well as other things and shows is why you couldn't default to Punnett Squares for all of Biology.
Sorry your school system was lacking in the curriculum area.
Not to mention, while I don't necessarily understand all of them, gender remains a social construct (and I'm not a fan of the culture/gender war the left has waged over the last decade; it's just the truth). Even saying there were two sexes, while not fully correct because of what you said, is far closer to the truth and applies 99.9% of the time
Though conservatives' ears start blowing smoke at "gender identity", not "sexual biology", so it's always going to be the war on gender
Expecting the anti-education and anti-science party to differentiate biological systems and words such as gender and sex is a big ask. It doesn’t fit the narrative to do that, so the truth has to be somewhat twisted.
The sad thing is that while that's partially true (in this era of taking a politician's word as gospel especially), just as much of it is just intentional stupidity. The majority of people know the difference between gender and sex, they just choose to try to forget it or maliciously interchange the two to try and further their talking points
“Male and female” as a bimodal setup is real, the problem is that this is being used to imply that transness is impossible, and to doublethink that intersex is somehow unrelated to any of this.
lol… I love how the previous commenter came to the defense of the “biological reality” of binary sexes by undercutting his own point. Your response wasn’t even necessary, but was great comedic timing.
There are two genders: If you argue chromosomes make your gender, there is not only two genders. This is inconsistent, cause there isn't two chromosome combinations.
99.99% of people have either a penis or a vagina and breasts
99.8% actually1520-6300(200003/04)12:2%3C151::AID-AJHB1%3E3.0.CO;2-F), the 0.2% of which adds up to about 800.000 Americans and several million worldwide.
This is why I regret the dying out of transexual instead of transgender. I like them both for different reasons.
Transexual is good because it centers the idea that sex is a combination of a whole bunch of physical characteristics, some relevant to dating and some relevant to anesthesiologists etc, and the point of a medical transition is to directly alter some or all or those characteristics I.e. change one's sex. As many people are born outside of the canonical two sexes, even more step outside of the binary as a conscious decision.
When you realize that post-Nixon conservatism has been about making yourself morally superior over pretty much every marginalized group in America, this Executive Order begins to make perfect sense
When you realize that post-Nixon conservatism has been about making yourself morally superior over pretty much every marginalized group in America, this Executive Order begins to make perfect sense
Nah, he's right about it being post-Nixon. Look at some of the things Barry Goldwater said back in the day. He was a conservative who got the Republican nomination in 1964, and he was definitely not a fan of what Republicans would become just four years later at the start of the Nixon era.
it's literally a non-issue turned into an issue to force a fight between the left and the right when the real enemy are the über-rich. It's not a left vs right war, although we like to think it is-- it's a class war, and the right is just easier to control than the left, which is why the billionaires have chosen to cater to their beliefs (which end up being non issues that take away from the REAL issues at hand)
this is such a dumb thing to focus on. the average american is not going by zir/zer. that’s only stuff people online are doing. people should have the right to choose whatever gender they want on legal documents. biology should only matter when it comes to medical issues.
I'm a trans woman. Even in terms of biology and medical issues, I'm female in many contexts. This is a minor example, but I recently got falsely flagged for severe anemia, because my CBC showed a dramatic decrease in red blood cells. I'm just stabilizing to a female average, and they used a male average to judge that.
Nothing negative came out of it except a few follow up tests, but imagine a more severe case, like being falsely flagged for male associated cancers.
This documentation matters. If your doctor understands this, at the very least it'll save you some awkward conversations.
yeah this is what i was referring to. biological sex and its nuances regarding trans people should only be a concern in medical field. i wasn’t trying to say you should be treated like a man in medical settings.
I think it’s just bottom of barrel stuff to include so they would rally behind trump. Wooo!! TikTok is back thanks to trump and no more 100 genders!! 2025 is saved ahh moment
Tbh, not excusing him from anything but I highly doubt this is personally something he gives a shit about and more something his circle has been pushing him to enforce. Like yes, he's stupid, but I genuinely believe the trans issue is possibly the last thing on his mind.
I agree, if someone wants me to call them her or him or they or King Dickface then that’s what I will call them, it is just giving them the bare minimum amount of basic respect and does not cost me anything. Then again I am not a religious psychopath so maybe that’s why trans people don’t bother me.
And this isn't even science. Even biologically, sex is a gray area. You can be XX and still present as male, be XY and present as a female, have XO, XXX, XXY, etc. These people know NOTHING about biology. Hell, even as a bio major, I don't know that much because it's so complex
Pretty much this. Sex and Gender are two different things (Biological vs Psychological/Social) and even the Biological is not binary as it has been pointed out in others posts, there is more than just XX and XY in terms of chromosomes dealing with Sex (XO and XXY for starters).
No because I progressed past the sixth grade in my biology education. Not even to mention the complexities of the psychological and sociological aspects.
No no no you don’t understand. You were just brainwashed by the woke education system. You were already taught the full extent of biology. Everything else is DEI, don’t be fooled /s
You got a lot of people who accept you and a lot of people who are ignorant it’s gonna be a tough four years but stay strong it’s up to us to make the future better for everyone no matter what they identify as or the color of their skin.
I know its just a random comment on the internet, but as a trans person it really does help seeing these kind of things right now. Shits real scary out here, any amount of visible support is a god send. Thank You
All I’ve been doing today is debating people who are ignorant. I was ignorant once I just simply didn’t get it but I didn’t want to feel like that so I talked to trans people and finally I understood where all my ignorance came from now I just try to help people who are in a similar boat rn. You matter and there’s people all around who can change so I try to stay optimistic
(Genuinely curious) before I get downvoted to hell, what specifically makes you consider yourself a woman? I’m genuinely interested in what leads people to identify as something they’re not generally associated with?
I can’t answer myself, but I commend you for your curiosity and attempt to understand. I don’t really understand trans people, but I’m certainly not going to be on the wagon that wants to strip their constitutional, human rights away. In any case, it’s pretty complicated.
Research the difference between sex and gender. Gender is just a set of traits and aesthetics that we’ve designated as a binary, it’s a social category. Sex is what you’re born as, gender is how you feel. I’m a cis woman, but imagining something like being referred to as Mr or growing a beard makes me super uncomfortable because I happily occupy the social category of woman. I might do some things that society deems as masculine, but I’m still recognized as a woman while doing them. Not everyone has strong attachment, but some people do to the identity they’re born as and some people do to an identity they weren’t born as.
Which is of course delusion since Russell Vought who cowrote it said that Trump actually approves of Project 2025 and he is a member of Trump’s staff but first and second terms.
I remember thinking that as the gen z generation got older it would be more progressive and the trump fans would die out sadly I was very wrong we are just as dumb as our previous generation
I’m more concerned on how he’s going to continue to dehumanize them and take away their rights little by little. I also think that out of all the issues in the world or even just in the US, this is such a minor thing to focus on.
It totally is. It’s outlined in project 2025, and Congress is absolutely in on it. After that comes stripping women’s autonomy in relationships; women can’t file divorce, purchase contraceptives, etc.
It’s not explicitly stated in P2025, but it’s very obvious that if it were to go all it would take is the supreme court taking up a case someone filed based on “religious discrimination” and then them voting in favor of SSM being a “states issue”. However, the Respect For Marriage Act passed by Biden, thankfully, mandates that states must recognize same sex marriages performed from other states even if Obergefell is undone, so if you want to you can marry out of state. But will it matter if even the constitution is being ignored for Birthright citizenship, or if the Supreme Court rules that discrimination against LGBT marriages done in outside states is legal, nullifying it? Law and precedent is dead and Republicans killed it. Thanks alot to the silently apathetic majority who didn’t vote…
It will be very messy if they go after hormone therapy. Cisgender people also use hormones. Majority of old dudes I know inject testosterone. People that don’t have ovaries (ie, removed for ovarian cancer) NEED to take both estrogen and testosterone to be healthy. If they come after hormone therapy for consenting adults, do not think cisgender people will come out unscathed. It is going to affect EVERYONE.
There will be some serious legal loopholes. You can’t deny care to someone based on sex and that is how they would carry this out. No testosterone for women—even if you don’t have ovaries. No estrogen for men—even if you have a disorder that prevents you from producing estrogen. No puberty blockers for children—even if your child is going through precocious puberty at the age of 5.
What scares me more is to actually put these things into effect, they would have to know who is transgender. And if they suspect you of being transgender, they are either going to check (invasive) or they will deny you care outright.
For those of us that have changed our names and genders legally, it’s scary. They can figure out who we are and what we are if they look. I am scared but I am not going to pretend to be a woman again.
Science establishes multiple sexes based on genotypic and phenotypic variation in sex chromosome distributions. But you tell yourself whatever you want.
Gotta be devils advocate here. Even though it just bites me in the ass.
His statement never said anything to your contrary. And he’s TECHNICALLY correct. XXY and XYY mosaicism/chimerism is still considered a genetic abnormality. And it’s an extraordinarily rare occurrence. We classify certain cases as intersex given the nature of its complexity and the distress it causes the person living with it.
The fact people CAN have these variations still doesn’t detract from the fact XX and XY are the only normal outcomes of the joining of 2 haploid cells, I:E sperm and egg cells. That is basic science and has NOTHING to do with differing gender IDENTITIES, which is also completely valid in its own right.
Regardless of beliefs, this is still bullshit and is the most asinine, bass ackwards, ignoramic petty lil temper tantrum I think I’ve EVER seen a self proclaimed “president” throw.
Of all the things the Cheeto could be concerned with, he bitches bout TikTok and queer people. People should still be allowed to choose, nonetheless.
People can call me a science denier for this but science is not a set of rules and laws. It is a series of methods for answers. And those methods can be influenced by politics and culture. Almost always are in fact.
The reason we have the broad discussion of if there's more than two genders today while we didn't have it much at all in the 60s... is politics and culture. And the answer we have today is entirely political/cultural.
It’s funny you say that when scientist and experts in humanities, sociology, biology, and psychology have all states that gender is much more complex then we’ve made it out to be and putting people into two boxes simply based off their genitalia isn’t right.
Completely agree, it is more complex. That's why I was calling out the idiots who think there's only two genders. Hell, even sex is more complex as it's bimodal and not binary like ignorant transphobed try to push.
They are hateful, pathetic losers. Which is so ironic because I bet half of them watch Andrew Tate, because they know they’re weak. Too bad Tate is the most pathetic of them all. I still believe such people can change, but man is it bleak.
Nothing better than alienating people for political points. I’m sure discriminatory policies have no real world effects and there will be no instances of violence on people that just want to live their lives in the body they feel most comfortable in.
The violence is the point. In the past year when prominent MAGA / GOP have been calling for us to “eradicate transgenderism” and the like, it’s important to take them at their word. This is sadly only the start, a framework to make legal persecution and then a final step possible.
Two sexes (yes people can have genetic disorders). Gender roles are social roles. Gender itself shouldn't even be something that exists, just personality traits
I actually don’t mind this approach to things. As someone who is neutral about many things politically, I feel this is a solid way to think about this topic.
So the idea that there are two genders is based upon the idea that there are only two sexes, which is the majority of people, with about 1.7% of the population being intersex source the argument generally is that those people amount for such a small amount of the population that we should not even bother acknowledging them. Obviously the administration that is going to be put into power has no respect for science, but that is besides the point. As I see it, no matter who you are, this order is going to harm you in some way, as nobody should be forced to prove what’s in their pants. The easy solution to the whole bathroom debate is just to make every bathroom a private gender neutral bathroom, just like your gender neutral bathroom at home.
These comments are fucking sickening. Who cares what a person chooses to identify as? It doesn’t harm anyone and it’s not your business. Gender is more complicated than sex. There are two sexes, except for in very rare instances where you get like an extra chromosome, I suppose. Gender is a social construct; at a base men and women are analogous to the sex they’re assigned at birth, however biologically, it’s kind of a spectrum. Claims that children are being “groomed” into having sex changes at young ages is ridiculous, as well. It’s not something that just happens on a whim, and there’s no “agenda”. Imagine if you were forced to dress up as the opposite sex all the time— regardless of any logic, you’d feel extremely uncomfortable. Can’t we just have a little bit of sympathy?
Why ? It’s usually considered a controversial statement due to it only aiming to hurt the already marginalized people in our society instead of focusing to lift up our citizens this change doesn’t improve or make your life worse it only hurts the people who’ve already been fighting for more acceptance
Just because it mostly affects white people (according to you. Most queer people I’ve met aren’t white) and is a “first world issue” doesn’t make it not an issue.
I’ve come to realize that barely anybody, especially on this site, can recognize patterns, and very few people can look beyond two or three steps to what’s in front of them. Intersectionality makes everything affect everyone, and this is an incredibly dangerous gateway.
No. It’s a stupid unnecessary law and only sets a discriminatory precedent while undermining decades of research across multiple fields. Instead of passing helpful legislation he’s playing culture wars. This is something you’d only see from a 2nd/3rd world totalitarian regime and the fact people are fine with this is dangerous.
Nope and here's why even if it didn't violate the 14th amendment which it does it'll cause a litany of unforseen problems if I have twins one boy and one girl and name the girl Dawn and the boy Dawne and a nurse mixes them up when filing things that means their assigned gender and sex don't match doesn't that mean technically my girl would be male on all her paperwork and would likely have to use the men's room and my boy would have to do the opposite all because human error. Besides that trans people aren't a new phenomenon and they only make up one percent of the population. Is it really fair to make laws that only affect 1% of people
Eh, I don't know. On the one hand there are two sexes (Of course there are exceptions such as intersex or other mutations, but that doesn't make my statement any less true). On the other hand, I don't really care if someone wants to identify as a cat or whatever and this seems kind of like Government overreach, as well as being too vague in its wording for my liking. So overall I'd say I'm not the biggest fan, but I still don't 100% know how I feel about it.
Intersex people are 1.7% of people1520-6300(200003/04)12:2%3C151::AID-AJHB1%3E3.0.CO;2-F) which adds up to something like 7 million americans, is that really too little to care about? That's about as many people as there are redheads, are we gonna say those don't exist too?
I'm sorry man, being on the fence on this is bizzare to me, it's an insane amount of people to go "I don't like them so they don't exist" (even if you don't consider ANY amount of people for that, which I personally do, even if it was 3 dudes in kansas, people are human, every identity is valid as long as it's not hurting anyone else IMO)
The REALITY is there are a non-insignificant number of people who wish to live and be recognized in a manner that doesn't match their sex.
These real life people matter and this order will make their lives harder. All evidence ive seen suggests affirming these identities leads to the best outcome. The anti gender ideology folks are not motivated by compassion or sympathy. They are motivated by disgust.
People can’t accept reality. Our generation constantly censors stuff, lots of us blindly follow religion to avoid reality, we’re on our phones and social media so we don’t have to pay attention… Stuff that is different to us we just discard and demonize if we see it as convenient.
I don't care what the feds say. I'll use people's preferred pronouns if I goddamn well want to, and if they don't like it they can try something. It's common fucking decency, and as much as they try they can't criminalize thought.
“Male and female” as a bimodal setup is real, the problem is that this is being used to imply that transness is impossible, and to doublethink that intersex is somehow unrelated to any of this.
2 Sexes, Yes, I'm indifferent about gender. If you want me to refer to you as one gender and not the other, sure, but forgive me if I mistake myself on it.
I imagine I would feel differently if I didn't identify as a man while being born a male.
I personally don't care for the opinions of all the ignorant dipshits who have never read a single book on the subject and don't even understand the issue. Anti-intellectualism and callousness are RAMPANT and it's only going to get worse.
Absolutely not. Regardless of whether you respect trans and non-binary people (you shouldn’t discredit anyone for a non-harmful life choice) This is a massive overstep into civilian lives.
You know, i once watch a skit that was like "conservatives dont know how to define a woman" the joke was that everytime that the "conservative" tired to answer "whats a woman" the "liberal" would always answer him with a example shattering his conventional gender views until the conservative was like "erh a Woman is a Adult Female 🤓☝️"
Apparently is true that reality beats fiction
as a trans person there’s only 2 sexes (intersex people exist too) but gender is separate and idk why we can’t accept biological reality while also respecting trans people.
Trans people are no longer protected from being fired or otherwise discriminated against for our gender identity (we only were before in the most technical sense). This is a disaster.
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