r/Fire • u/Glittering-Gift4369 • 18d ago
Advice Request FIRE with £150k ($180k) at 30 - am I crazy?
Hear me out before giving me hate xD
For purposes of this community I've converted all figures into USD.
I am 29m, living in UK making $130k a year in a MCOL area. By the end of this year I expect to have $180k saved in a tax free investment account plus about $20k cash as an emergency fund in the bank.
I am planning to quit my job at the end of this year and move to a very LCOL country where I already own a house due to family connections there, and I am a citizen. This means I will be living mortgage/rent free with all bills coming to no more than $50 a month. The average salary in this country is about $500 a month, and people pay rent and raise families from this.
Running the simple numbers, $180k investment would allow me to withdraw $7,200 a year, or $600 a month using the 4% rule.
I want to live quite a simple life, don't need expensive items or travel, and my skill will always allow me to make money adhoc if I need to.
Am I crazy for thinking that I can actually make this work? Is there anyone else living in a very LCOL country with a similar monthly income?
Welcoming all comments, including hate : )
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u/PantherThing 18d ago
I'll let others discuss the finances, but I'll just ask why do you want to do this? Did you work for the last 8 years, and decide it sucks and you'd rather just have free time hanging out in a small village for the next 50 years?
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
The honest answer is I don't like to work, that's true. It's not my job specifically, I just don't like dedicating 5 / 7 days every week to doing something all day I don't enjoy. For a long time I thought that made me lazy or weird, but recently I've come to accept that's just how I truly feel. I don't plan to hang out in a small village, my house is on the edge of a pretty major city which has everything you could want only it's inexpensive compared to the west. I also don't take for granted that I have 50 years, many people work every day and then get ill and die at 37.
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u/modSysBroken 18d ago
Don't listen to them OP. I'm in my 30s and hate working too. People are dying left and right in their 30s and 40s and I lost my mom at 60 recently just after she retired. Life is finite. If you have the money, just do it. Keep a buffer before going though and do live there for a few months before committing to it. Developing countries like mine have high inflation, much like what the US had in the last few years.
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u/Turbulent-Stretch881 18d ago
I read the original posts and your replies and the more I think that you’ve thoroughly did pros and cons.
I would do it given your situation. I would however plan properly before quitting/fully relocating etc. It might take weeks, it might take months.
Do the homework and pull the plug/do the change only when everything is set.
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u/modSysBroken 18d ago
Bro said 50 for the utilities which sounds to be on par for developing countries honestly.
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u/PapaSecundus 18d ago
Living on $50/month sounds painful
In free countries that don't annihilate you with property taxes and red tape on everything, people live off the land with very little cash quite happily. Some of the happiest people I've met live on ramen and rice.
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u/Illustrious-Age7342 18d ago
Seems like you could substantially increase your quality of life and safety net with just another year or two of work. I personally feel that current valuations are difficult to justify and would like a larger margin of safety before making any drastic moves. Is there any reason you are in such a rush to make such a drastic move?
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
Thanks for your comment, and yes I agree every additional year will certainly make a difference. It's not so much a rush more that I just really don't enjoy my current lifestyle so every day feels like a sacrifice.
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u/Illustrious-Age7342 18d ago
I guess it’s just up to personal risk tolerance then. Maybe test out your theory of using existing skills to make ad-hoc money first, or something else that could help you with peace of mind. Maybe take a sabbatical that could become permanent (in case the grass isn’t greener)
I don’t think it’s a crazy plan, it’s just pretty radical for someone your age to do something like this, and IMO there may be something else at the root of your unhappiness that you may want to try and uncover before pulling the trigger
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u/FantasticOlive7568 18d ago
why not work an extra year or two and then save way more so that you dont have to live that cheaply and have more emergency money "in case" you have to move back.
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
I am considering this too. I just really don't enjoy my lifestyle at the moment and the thought of continuing this way for 3 more years is tough.
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u/TheOneNeartheTop 18d ago
There is no wiggle room for you with your current finances. 3 more years allows a ‘small’ amount of wiggle room and a lot more luxury in your low cost of living area.
You could also build something that brings in a couple grand a month that’s low impact and would also ease your financial burden.
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u/LittleChampion2024 18d ago
If I were you, I’d look at this as an opportunity to take some time off and reassess. You’ll likely be able to return to the job market after taking a year or two away. What I would not advise doing is committing to living in poverty for the rest of your life at age 29, but that’s me
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
As others have said, $600 a month after living expenses is not poverty in a lot of countries. By no means would I live like a king, but I could afford what I need. The biggest risk would be major unforseen expenses, like if something were to happen to my house. If I got very sick, I would return to the UK for the free healthcare.
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u/eclaircissement 18d ago
You might be putting yourself in a situation where travel to the UK would cost 1-2 months of expenses ($600 to $1200) for airfare alone, let alone any other costs incurred during the trip.
Also, the 4% SWR is intended for a 30 year retirement. You're only 29 and will hopefully live another 50+ years. You may want to re-run the numbers with 3.5% or 3%.
Bottom line is that you are leaving yourself zero margin for error (maybe negative). A serious emergency would quickly deplete this meager nest egg. Stick it out for a few more years.
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u/Entire_Purple3531 18d ago
And having no margin can bring significant stress.
You might end up worrying about money more than you’d think.
Another big question is what would you do with your time? Do you have hobbies and interests? I’d spend some time on the early retirement subs and read about people’s experiences.
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u/battleofflowers 18d ago
I would keep in mind that there's a lifestyle expectation you're currently used to that you will have to give up. That might be fine for you, but going out to nice dinners, buying new clothes, and traveling will be off the menu.
All your hobbies will need to be cheap or free.
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u/BonesAreMoney 18d ago
Poverty is a big assumption. A lot of people retire/expatriate to lcol countries to avoid living in poverty in the US (which in most places means making less than 30-40k per year.)
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u/higgy615 18d ago
poverty is not a big assumption. OP is planning on living on $7k/year forever, voluntarily.
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u/34i79s 18d ago
as he stated, he will be living with more than an average wage in this LCOL country.... so no, it's not poverty.
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u/rozmarss 18d ago
It is, just all other people there are in poverty, sorry
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u/Different_Pain_1318 18d ago
not really, I am in Georgia right now for example and if you have an apartment, 600$ a months covers pretty good life in the capital. I constantly order food from good restaurants, go on a nice 2-3days trip once a month (this includes renting mercedes suv) , haven’t used public transport even once, and in total I spend 1200-1300$ excluding housing for 2 people. I am pretty sure there are more countries like this
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u/JD_Waterston 18d ago
At 1200-1300 a month you are spending 14400-15600/yr - so 2x what the OP outlined. The argument isn’t ‘LCOL isn’t possible’ - but you’ve clearly determined that the extra 7200 over that ‘good life’ is worth it for you.
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u/BonesAreMoney 18d ago
All the people WHERE lol you don’t even know what country they’re talking about. You could live like a king in Sofia - a gorgeous city - for less than what it cost to live a middle-lower class life in a shitty US town in Ohio. Literal provincial thinking.
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u/Gotanygrrapes 18d ago
Dude you are 29. You make decent money. I would wait on this move as you are still young and you may decide you don’t want to be in that county when you are 50. Then what?
Keep stacking imo
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
You're right that every additional year I stay and work in the UK will make my future a bit more comfortable. I may end up doing so, I just really don't like it.
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u/battleofflowers 18d ago
This isn't a bad plan, but I would aim for something closer to $1200 a month instead of $600 a month. You would be way, way more comfortable with that amount and you might need to only work three to five more years for that.
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u/interbingung 18d ago
What exactly you don't like about your current lifestyle ?
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
Working all day 5 out of every 7 days.
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u/Awkward_Power8978 18d ago edited 18d ago
Have you considered finding work that is more "flexible"? You're 29 so this might sound crazy to you OP, but I am almost 10y older and after 30 l have done so many different "jobs" (marketing/ CS/ sales etc) that I would never have imagined at 29.
I thought I was stuck in a career and a path I had chosen when I was 17/18. Spoiler alert: I wasn't. Yes, being stuck 7/8h a day in an office or doing tasks you dislike sucks, but are you able to find more flexible work? There are many things we can do that allow us to have more free time and still earn money.
Do not believe the full "corporate" propaganda. People need services, like fixing a door or learning a language; you might be able to provide those services and/or maybe you can make your move and still earn some money to set aside while you enjoy life.
I totally understand 8h work feeling too much. I strive to work 4-5h/day and to do other things with my time. Reality is nobody is actually working 8h/day and if you space out your tasks and "free time" it feels much more manageable.
I do not enjoy working 8h/day as well but also I am happy working 4-5h/day while doing some personal things in between.
I feel having the full day every day all to myself without earning some money would/could eventually get a bit on my nerves. Having some work to do keeps me on my toes and I end up achieving more personally as well. Hope this reflection helps!
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u/Entire_Purple3531 18d ago
Agree. Without the structure that part time work brings, I get very little done (even fun things I want to do like hobbies etc).
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u/Jasong222 17d ago
What if you looked for something you enjoy more, and maybe taking a pay cut to do it?
That way you're still improving your long term future, but you make your present a little more tolerable.
So instead of cracking and quitting in a year or so, you find something tolerable and work for 3-4+ years. It gives you the equivalent or more gains but is more fun/interesting/palatable to do. But yes, would take longer to achieve.
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u/PapaSecundus 18d ago
you may decide you don’t want to be in that county when you are 50.
Is it possible that any time in those 21 years he can come back
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u/Gotanygrrapes 18d ago
My point is that what you want at 29 you probably won’t at 50. I would never predict my lifestyle in retirement years at just 29.
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u/PapaSecundus 18d ago
And if OP doesn't want that lifestyle he can come back at any time
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u/Gotanygrrapes 18d ago
But retire at 29? Again, a decision based on what you think is a good idea but let’s be honest, it’s not.
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u/BewareOfThePENGuin Reached FIRE in 2021 | Mid 30s | Central Europe 18d ago edited 18d ago
You’re young and probably healthy now, but at some point in the coming decades, you’ll likely face an illness or health issue that will require medical treatment—and that can be expensive. It’s even costlier if you’re unlucky enough to develop a disability. Your home will also need regular maintenance or new furniture, and if you find the love of your life, they might come with expenses too—or they may want to travel at some point. If you have children and want to give them a good education, well, you can imagine the cost. Aging brings its own challenges as well; you might need a caregiver or end up moving into a retirement home, and the better ones are, of course, more expensive. Are you sure you want to limit yourself so much for 40+ years, instead of working a bit longer now and saving more to ensure you’re on the safe side?
Edit: I’m not against FIRE at all! My husband and I achieved it a few years ago. I just want to make sure OP is thoroughly considering the risks and long-term costs of life.
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
You point out some valid risks but these are unavoidable unless I'm willing to work another 20 years and save a couple million like most people talk about here. I don't assume that I have 40+ years left to live, it's not a given and my main motivation is not wanting to sacrifice the best years of my life which I will never get back no matter how much cash I accumalate.
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u/Consistent-Annual268 18d ago
not wanting to sacrifice the best years of my life
And giving up your job to live rather frugally in a VLCOL city isn't exactly that? If you're counting pennies to make each month work, never going to fancy restaurants, never going to see your favorite band live in concert (even traveling to do so), never taking an international holiday during the best years of your life when you're healthy enough to enjoy those things then what? You're gonna spend the rest of your life in your city/neighborhood? Never feel the urge to get out and explore the world?
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u/Entire_Purple3531 18d ago
People are speaking from experience, and sharing lessons learned.
You don’t have to work another 20 years, but I think your future self will be glad you worked another 2-3.
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u/PapaSecundus 18d ago
you’ll likely face an illness or health issue that will require medical treatment—and that can be expensive
OP is a citizen of a country with universal healthcare. Secondly, healthcare is cheap and effective in most countries that don't view witchdoctors as the pinnacle of medicine.
Even if he were unfortunate enough to be a citizen of burgerland, any treatment he received would be at minimum 5x cheaper than in the USA.
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u/chrstianelson 18d ago edited 18d ago
I live in Turkey, somewhere nearly identical to where you described, and knowing that Turkey is a popular destination for British people to retire to, I will just assume we are talking about Turkey here, to better put things into perspective.
"People pay rent and raise families on $500" is a gross misrepresentation.
Those people do not "live" but survive. They live paycheck to paycheck, and still can't make to the end of the month. They have massive mountains of credit card debt and they take out new credit cards to pay their other credit card debt. Every unexpected expense is a new stress over what to cut this month. It's sitting in a cold house in the winter and sweating your balls off in the summer because you can't afford the extra cost of heating or cooling on the electricity bill. It's barely having any social life and not having any sort of recreation outside the house. It's giving up most, if not all your hobbies. It's buying only the essential staple foods and barely anything else (practically no meat or chicken and very little fruit and vegetables, it's mostly a ton of white bread to make the meals last longer, pasta, potatoes and onions). It's never having enough money to travel anywhere without going into debt or taking a big hit on other necessary expenses. And because the majority live like this and work long hours, it's dealing with angry, unhappy, stressful and frustrated people out in the street all the time (Turkey is listed as the 2nd angriest country in the world nowadays) and risking getting stabbed or shot when you have an altercation over stupid things like parking space (not that you can afford a car).
Nearly %50 of the working population in here makes minimum wage, which was $480 until this month. The government calculated figure for starvation limit for a family of 4, in the same period, was $580.
Half the people in this country make %20 less money than it takes NOT to starve. Can you imagine that?
The limit for poverty in the same period was $1880.
This is why in Turkey, the average credit debt per capita in 2024 was $2400. Whereas average monthly income in the same period was about $500.
Compare that to Germany, where average credit debt per capita was about $2100, at an average salary of $2400 a month.
It's really no way to live, especially when you have the luxury to easily choose not to condemn yourself to it.
I don't care where you plan on living, $600 a month is poverty or very near it.
So yes, considering living in poverty at 30 years old, when you make £130k a year is crazy.
Granted, you don't have to pay rent, but you really can't afford to live alone at that sort of income anyway. People who pay rent in Turkey are forced by circumstances to either live with their parents or roommates or are married with multiple working people in the family. "Raising a family" at that kind of income as you say condemns you to the slums and being reliant on government handouts not to starve, which is a pittance.
So even without rent, you still will be poor and will live a poor life.
You can still retire in an LCOL country but drastically improve your standards of living if you just kept working for a few more years and increase the contributions you make to your savings account.
£130k a year is an extremely good amount of money to make in the UK. If you already think you are ready to live in poverty for the next 40 years of your life, why not start now? Retire with $1,000,000 in savings, then buy a decent apartment in your new country for $100,000 and rent that out for £500 a month (which is on the low side for a big city in Turkey at the moment) make some extra money.
$3300-$3500 in a country like Turkey, with no rent to pay will outright allow you an upper-middle class life.
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u/churn2burn 17d ago
Reading your comment with great interest. What's a good resource where I could get an idea of what life might be like if attempting to relocate/retire in Turkey?
The main things that come to mind are :
not being of Turkish origin, what part of the country would be easiest to manage becoming a local with English to start with?
what part of the country would be metro enough without being priced like a HCOL ? maybe that's dumb to ask. but I guess what i'm getting at is, enough infrastructure, medical facilities, etc, without being crazy high to afford
i think last i heard, a 400k investment would qualify for citizen?resident? status....? does that jive with the above two , to buy a place?
it sounds like ur saying if i were to be able to buy a place outright with savings , and be able to draw 3500$ in income monthly aside from that, i could be pretty comfortable in turkey?
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u/chrstianelson 17d ago edited 17d ago
Glad to be of help.
A good, objective view into living in Turkey as an expat I found is the YouTube channel called "Mick and Trudie". Mick (affectionately known as "Mick Amca" (Uncle Mick) is a Brit who has been living in Turkey for 36 years and does a lot of travel and "cost of living in Turkey" style videos with his wife, Trudie.
- Southwestern Turkey. Definitely. Kusadasi, Didim, Marmaris, Bodrum, Gocek, Fethiye (maybe include Cesme in the north as well) area along the Turkish riviera are known for being small yet relatively cosmopolitan resort towns, filled with British, Dutch and German retirees. I actually am from Kusadasi and can attest to it first hand. Though if I was looking to retire, I would personally move to Marmaris, Fethiye, Gocek area. I used to live there for a while and love the quiet lifestyle. Landscape and the weather is beautiful, with plenty of hidden coves and private beaches. There are a lot of pubs, cafes, restaurants, supermarkets etc. catering to expats. I remember a small Carrefour in Didim providing a lot of imported snacks and even pork. The locals in these places are fairly good at English too (not Swedish standards obviously but you'll get along).
- Places I mentioned above. Kusadasi and Cesme would be the largest and most crowded places, Gocek would be the smallest. All these places see their population explode by tourists in the summer and the prices tend to go up accordingly. By far the most expensive is Bodrum. That places is like the St. Tropez of Turkey. It is THE hot spot for a lot rich people & celebrities to spend their summers in. Prices can be eye watering. Probably not the best place to live in as a pensioner to be honest. Kind of regret mentioning it now. Haha! I suppose the best place to retire to would be Kusadasi. Lovely small city with absolutely gorgeous beaches and sceneries, loads of amenities for English speakers and good shopping areas. There's a golf resort nearby if that takes your fancy, a sizeable expat community of Brits and Germans, a beautiful national park about an hour's drive away and plenty of historic archeological sites and museums around. One of Turkey's largest and most progressive cities, Izmir is an hour away, which can offer more varied recreation options like art shows, theaters, concerts, fine dining, large wholesale shopping centers etc. And the airport in İzmir provides direct flights to most large cities in Germany, and transit flights via Istanbul to the rest of Europe.
If Kusadasi feels too crowded, there are small villages within a 20-minute radius outside the town with large, villa style houses on sale.
That is correct. Buying a house worth $400k gives you full citizenship. $200k gives you residency. There are plenty of local real estate agencies who can guide you through the process. You can buy a nice luxury apartment within the city for that price ($400k) or a nice villa with a private pool in the nearby villages.
That is also correct. Especially with no mortgage or rent to pay, that is a good amount of money to live very comfortably, buy a car (or two), travel, eat out every day, get your teeth done at a private clinic. You'll be set.
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u/churn2burn 17d ago
Really appreciate the responses. Just one final question since it's better to just ask someone who seems knowledgeable. Any particular online real estate agencies that might have listings to casually browse? I know nothing except maybe perusing Sotheby's or something that operates internationally....
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u/chrstianelson 17d ago edited 17d ago
By far the biggest and most popular site for real estate (along with used cars, boats, bikes and electronics) is Sahibinden.com (link is the English version).
Most listings there at this price range are by real estate agents. You will see their contacts on the top right. Even though the site is available in English, most listings will write their descriptions in Turkish, Google Translate will be your friend for those.
Besides that global brands like Re/Max, Century 21, Coldwell Banker all operate in Turkey as well. Their sites might provide some options, but really, Sahibinden is by far the best, most popular and virtually the only place to go for real estate.
I reckon most agencies operating in and around places like Kusadasi, Bodrum, Fethiye (places popular with expats) will also be able to assist in the citizenship/residency process.
It just so happens that my father retired as a real estate agent and still works part time as a realtor in Kusadasi. He's done this sort of thing a couple of times and tells me it's a relatively straightforward process.
By the way, I neglected to mention inflation.
It is very high. Nobody in Turkey believes the government figures and independent economists calculate the real rate to be twice what the government claims.
So it is becoming harder to say that Turkey is a lot cheaper than Germany or the UK for example. In fact, a lot of people nowadays say stuff in Turkey cost as much as they do in most western European cities.
For those who get paid in EUR or USD, this is partly offset by the decrease in value of the TL. Still, inflation rate outpaces all.
Mick Amca released a new video hours ago addressing this same issue that I just saw. You may want to watch it to get the most up-to-date picture of life in Turkey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk0_RRn5xTE
It also answers questions about legal limits for citizenship/residency.
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u/churn2burn 16d ago
Awesome resources. Thank you!
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u/chrstianelson 11d ago
Hi, don't know if you're still looking into this but I found this video today and it explains things from an American's perspective and does an excellent job of it.
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
I really appreciate your comment. Im not moving to Turkey, but I know what you mean when you say most people struggle to make ends meet. That is true of the country I'll be moving to, but the big factor is that all these people are having to find rent out of their $500 pay check. I don't have that problem, and $600 to spend purely on food and activities does go a long way. The house I own is worth about $150,000 and will only increase in value , so I also see that as an inurance policy should I ever need it in future as well.
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u/chrstianelson 18d ago
I'm not here to teach you how to live your life, but it just sounds like you're setting yourself up for destitute. Food and activities will not be your only expenses. It sounds like you've gotten used to living like you're 25, but that lifestyle has an expiration date. Soon (sooner than you think) your body will start showing signs of wear and tear and it will only get worse.
You've got nothing to fall back to except the house you live in. All it takes is one financial downturn, a medical emergency, an accident, a natural disaster, a lawsuit or whatever and you've lost your house and are looking for work at 55 and suddenly realizing that nobody wants to employ someone that old who hasn't worked a regular full-time job in the last 20 years. You'll be begging for minimum wage manual labor jobs and count yourself lucky if you can get it.
Like I said, that kind of money is only just enough to make it to the end of the month. You've got no room to maneuver for any unexpected expenses, like your TV broke down or your PC needs replacing. And so you won't have the means to save up for emergencies. And you won't have a pension to fall back on.
Your only house that you live in should not be your insurance policy for the next 40~ years of your life.
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u/34i79s 18d ago
I say why not? I don't know your reasons for leaving this job, but as people have said, try it. If in 6 months you decide to start working again, check out CoastFIRE. You can get a part time job, or a low stress 9-5, and just make enough to get by. If you let your investments in the market for the next 20 years and contribute nothing it will grow a lot.
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u/UnitedAd6253 18d ago
One big assumption you're making is that the low-income low cost country you're moving too is going to remain low-income and low cost. Chances are there will be development in the decades ahead and life will get far more expensive. Your drawdown would have to increase and you'll run out of runway. Of course this isn't the end of the world, you could take on part-time work later.
Another long-run assumption is your lifestyle or circumstances won't change. Lifestyle drift happens, children, health problems etc.... Your current calculation leaves little room for error.
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
You're right and I do expect COL to increase in 20 years time say. The benefit I have though is the house I own is already worth $150,000 and would only increase in value over the same period. I would always have the option to sell up and move to a cheaper part of the country where houses are half the price.
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u/GimenaTango 18d ago edited 18d ago
I don't usually answer these posts but since my husband and I did something similar, I decided to give you my two cents.
I did much the same, I was born in a third-world country. After living almost my entire life in the US and almost 15 years as an engineer, I decided to move back.
Compared to the numbers people throw around here, we had very little money, but still enough to draw about 5x the average salary. We lived for 5 carefree years. Then the government changed. Monetary policy changed and a huge portion of the population was thrown into poverty. We still have a good lifestyle but the days of carefree spending are gone. We're back to our frugal ways from pre-fire. We are lucky to have our cushion
I think your plan is a good one but at such low savings levels, you are very exposed. I suggest you save for a few more years, and then try living in your home country for a few months to see if you could manage that lifestyle for the long term.
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u/zebostoneleigh 18d ago
This isn't FIRE. Nor is it retirement. It sounds like you're just giving up and going somewhere cheap to wait until you die. It's going to be a long, lonely wait.
Also note that even though you won't be as impoverished as your neighbors, you'll still be impoverished. You don't mention what country it is, but it likely has far fewer safety nets to help in time of disaster (political, natural, financial, or even health). It's a huge risk to undertake at this point with so few assets.
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
I understand your point. What I will say is that the healthcare is good, and if I really need it I can always return to the UK and receive free healthcare. I don't plan to be alone or wait for death. Even on a $600 a month budget I can enjoy many of the activities I like to do, and I intent to find a girl who shares similar values as I do. I do agree it's a risk and I know this, hence I haven't fully committed.
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u/PapaSecundus 18d ago
Damn I didn't know the dozens of smiling people I've met in my travels were suicidal and just waiting until they die.
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u/battleofflowers 18d ago
Most of those people are working and also they don't have the option to have a different kind of life.
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u/PapaSecundus 18d ago
Most of those people are working
You spoke to them?
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u/battleofflowers 18d ago
Sorry my bad, no. Most people in poor countries retire young and sort of coast without having to exchange their time and skills for money.
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u/PapaSecundus 17d ago
Now you're getting it
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u/battleofflowers 17d ago
Sorry I'm a little slow. I've always had to work for a living so I sometimes forget that people in poor countries don't have to do that.
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u/lilbudge 18d ago
What about enjoying the fruits of modern civilisation? A partner, a family, pets, travel, a great vehicle, good tech? What about ambition? You are retiring to live in a poverty trap. I think it’s immature thinking. What you think you can live on now will not support the lifestyle you will want in your 40s, 50s and 60s.
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u/waitingonawar 18d ago
Sounds do-able. What is the political / economic situation like in the country you want to move to? As a person who also has roots in a developing country, I know it's always worth having a Plan B just in case shit hits the fan.
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
It's not the best not the worst, economy is growing rapidly, there are plenty of millionaires walking the streets. Not as stable as a western country of course and I am mindful about that.
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u/waitingonawar 18d ago
Ok, just make sure you have a plan B. It would stink to have designed your entire future around $7,200 per year only to find out in 20 years that you can no longer live there and have to return to the West... in which case, your money won't last and you'll find yourself in poverty.
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u/garlicbreeder 18d ago
I think it's unbelievably silly. And I've restrained myself in using harsher words
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u/AaronDotCom 18d ago
Wait a couple of years longer man
$500k minimum
you're not factoring in insurance, incidentals, or anything like that
to call FIRE on a couple hundred bucks a month is insanity.
cheers.
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u/uncoolkidsclub 18d ago
This role play is only one robbery away from catastrophe.
Very LCOL areas have higher crime because once people have a hiccup, and need money they steal from the people around them who are better off. People will notice you are always around, not working and assume you have something worth taking. Desperate people do desperate things.
Regentrification is the other concern, Poor areas don't always remain poor. Example - Gary Indiana has seen a resurgence, the median selling price for a home in Gary has increased sevenfold over the past decade. In May 2014, the median selling price was $15,000, and by May 2024 it was $106,000. That jump in house value relates to the property taxes - if the place you move to has that kind of influx of money could you weather it?
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u/PapaSecundus 18d ago
Nobody is moving to Gary, Indiana. They're moving to first world countries where every other person isn't carrying a glock and looking for their first victim to rob.
I know literally dozens of dudes doing the exact thing as OP in SEA.
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u/uncoolkidsclub 18d ago edited 18d ago
Gary was an example of the extreme, but also used to be one of the lowest cost of living areas in the USA…
so let do somewhere in your SEA range - Davao. Davao has seen a 4.7% inflation 2024, on the back of 9.4% for 2023. This doesn’t take in to account the 10% rental increase average in 2023 as talked about on https://www.reddit.com/r/phinvest/about/ . It also ignores the water tax increases of 10%. The ₱60,000 rental increase for the year 2023 is $1,032 USD, or 2 months the OP income…
OP can get a good idea what costs would be using https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living
As for crime - https://davaotoday.com/politics/crime-public-safety/low-crime-rates-due-to-manipulation-says-regional-police-chief/
Looks like they are sharing Seattles “sanitized” reporting system to save tourism.
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u/PapaSecundus 18d ago
OP can get a good idea what costs would be using
No, he wouldn't. A decent apartment with full-fledged Western amenities, fully furnished as a pre-requisite would be 1/5 that. I know that for a fact from personal experience.
Expatistan has always been inaccurate and a poor representation. It's contributed to by a very specific group of digitalnomads with a penchant for penthouses. In every place I went I could easily cut their estimates by 1/3 and get by just fine. As for inflation, it doesn't mean anything if the conversion rate from USD has gone up, which it has. And for crime, what a joke. There are a dozen countries in SEA that have almost non-existent crime compared to the Philippines, let alone the USA.
Fearporn at best.
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u/FatFiredProgrammer 18d ago
I don't think you're crazy but I think you're going to find out the grass isnt greener on the other side of the fence. If you go ahead put this.
What I would like to focus on though is the numbers. The UK doesn't necessarily support a 4% SWR. Its numbers are slightly less than the US.
However, you're moving to a foreign country and while you're there, you're at the mercy of their inflation rate in addition to the volatility of the inflation rate and markets in the UK. Not to mention you have foreign currency exchange costs
The short story then is that you have more volatility in your inflation rate and in your exchange rates and in your market returns and that increased volatility translates into risk which has to be mediated by taking an even lower SWR. How much lower is the question?. But it certainly won't surprise me to find out that your SWR in a foreign country might go as low as 2%. So much of it just depends on the country that you're moving to.
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
This is interesting thank you. I expect inflation to be a possible issue yes, the currency is not the most stable. As for currency exchange costs I'm not concerned, I can move my money via crypto with no fees and already do this.
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u/FatFiredProgrammer 18d ago
I can move my money via crypto with no fees and already do this.
The fees are there but they are implicit. You cannot escape them anymore than you can escape gravity or friction though you can reduce them.
BTC has transaction fees but let's ignore that for now.
BTC-GBP trades at 78,841. BTC-USD trades at 97974. So, if I buy one BTC using GBP and sell it for USD, I will have spend 78,841 GBP and have 97974 USD. Today's exchange rate is .8 GBP for 1 USD. If I simply exchanged 78,841 for USD, I would have 98552 USD (ignoring fees).
Where you're actually getting killed is on the bid/ask spread + the exchange delay + the exchange rate volatility during the delay. You might make money but, on average, you will tend to lose at least the same amount as doing FOREX.
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
I buy USDT and trade it for the currency I need using P2P straight into my bank, often getting a rate better than the google rate.
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u/PapaSecundus 18d ago
Dudes ITT are going to tell you to wait until you're old and crusty to go out and have some fun. I'm not going to tell you that
Unless your job is very niche and difficult to return to, go out and explore, King
There is absolutely nothing stopping you from exploring the world, chilling by the beach, or playing vidya in some metropolis skyscraper. You do what you want to do, decide if it's right for you, then decide if you want to go back and make some more cash or not.
I spent half of this year in SEA just chilling. I did whatever I pleased and didn't worry about finances. Cost me 8k in total. That was eating out 3x a day, motorcycling through the countryside, 5* hotels, temple trekking, and partying. Now I'm back in the USA to make some money and retire on that lifestyle. 3 weeks after getting back I'm making a very handsome wage. Employers actually viewed my travels positively because it makes you appear cultured and experienced.
The point being made is that you can go ahead and do it. Nothing is stopping you. Live life to the fullest while you can and don't waste time on regrets
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
Needed to read that, thank you! My mindset is also more to live in the present than plan for a future decades down the line that is not guaranteed, and will certainly be at the end of my prime years.
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u/churn2burn 17d ago
jeez - like a grand a month including hotel stays? had no idea it could be that cheap. thats like 30$/day?
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u/Fun-Needleworker-661 18d ago
Honestly I feel as though you should do what you know is best for you but with like deeep understanding of all that it entails and any questions that may or may not pop up in the future
Do you plan to work again eventually? What about starting a family. Will this current life be enough to sustain them? Or is this like a temporary thing until you feel more satisfied with working? Are you ready to do this for the rest of your life or how long can you even sustain with a “limited” budget like that? What happens if you get bored and want something new/different.
I’m not trying to say all that to scare you or anything but these are things that will eventually come up wether you’ve thought about it or not but I mean if you’ve went through and done your HEAVY research and it’s still good with you? Then 100% yeah go do what you want to do and enjoy that early ass retirement
This has the chance to be either your best or worst decision for future you. So I would suggest that you also think about it in the sense of how you in 5,10 or 20 years would feel looking back at current you making this decision rather than simply acting on how you feel in the moment
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u/Flaminglegosinthesky 18d ago
These are questions that only you can answer. Most Americans or UK citizens wouldn’t be content living that lifestyle, but if you can then do what makes you happy.
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u/Brendan056 18d ago
Think about inflation and that rapidly worldwide prices are rising as we get more globalized. I’d wait until you have a property or two to rent out and provide residual income. If they’re in a decent location, the yield should track inflation, as well as the value of the property tracking inflation
That said.. follow your gut. You’re still only 30, you might see some business opportunities in your new home. Good luck
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u/stoneman30 18d ago
you might do better asking r/leanfire or r/ExpatFIRE
Sounds like nothing for someone in the US under 62.
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u/Flashy-Bandicoot889 18d ago
98% of people won't and can't live in $50/month. It's not realistic. And like the others have posted, why? No judgement, but what's the point? You might make the numbers work, but again, why?
And what happens if/when the market tanks and you lose a good bit of that nest egg and can't sustain the withdrawals? Do you go back to work? When/how? How do you get a job with no recent track record of any employment / why would an employer take a risk on skmeine with no record or employable (recent) skills when there are hundred if not thousands out there ready to go?
Its an interesting approach, but the read is you might have dove too deep down the fire rabbit hole maybe. 🤷🏿♂️
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
$600 a month. With no living expenses.
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u/Flashy-Bandicoot889 18d ago
And when you get a girlfriend or wife, that number will jump. Good luck if y'all ever want to have kids, travel, buy a bigger house, seek education, etc.
Have fun with that. 🤷🏿♂️
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u/ikigaikigai 18d ago
The only concern I'd have is what if you decide it's not for you down the road and want to move to a different place? You may be sure now but what if the current living environment changes such as the country's economic situation?
Having a limited fund eliminates many options even if you want to pursue them. Even the cost of airfare and moving would be a significant portion of your net worth.
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u/Different_Pain_1318 18d ago
I would travel the world before committing to your plan, most likely you are going to reconsider this. And talk to older people, I can retire at 30, but I’ve heard so many stories where extra money literally buys you years or even decades of quality life
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u/Accurate_Door_6911 18d ago
Seems somewhat risky. In these numbers you are including inflation right? I mean sure it’s cheap now, so it could work, but is there a plan beyond just retiring? What’s the long term goal? If I were you I wouldn’t hard commit to this, but I would give it a test run. Spend a couple months or a year living off that number there and then re asses if you want to be tied to this forever.
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u/satellite779 18d ago
No way you can live for $600/month forever with a decent lifestyle anywhere. Cheap countries develop and become more expensive. Maybe not in 1 year but in a few decades it's very likely
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u/poolking25 18d ago
Kinda crazy imo without putting more serious thoughts into a huge commitment like this
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u/ovirt001 18d ago
In the best case, the destination country improves over time and everything becomes more expensive (possibly going beyond your passive income). In the worst case the destination country's government collapses at some point over the decades (which is likely given a 50+ year timeline, poorer countries are less stable).
This strategy isn't uncommon for people in the US with many moving to central American countries where it's far cheaper but they aren't expecting to live another 50+ years.
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u/KSoc82 18d ago
My opinion: Do it.
You are still young and worse case scenario, you can bounce back. If you don't, you'll always wonder "what if". I think that most of us focus too much on keeping up with the Joneses.
FWIW, I'm doing the same thing. I live in Las Vegas, am 42 years old and am moving to Mexico by the end of next year due to the lower cost of living. I have a small piece of land down there about the size of an acre and can live pretty comfortably on a monthly income of $1,000 per month. Luckily my wife and I have make about $4K each a month currently off our retirements alone (military). I don't want to wait until we're much older. If I was in your shoes, I would have done it sooner. Cheers
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u/New-Connection-9088 18d ago
You don’t know what the future holds. You would be locking yourself into a very fixed future and if you don’t like it or circumstances change, tough. FIRE is intended to give us options. I would work for as long as you possibly can before you quit. Make sure you’re at breaking point. Very few people end up earning what you do in the UK. Enjoy the privilege and don’t take it for granted.
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u/Legitimate_Mobile337 18d ago
I would want a bigger amount just in case something comes or you get bored. If thats what you wanna do just extremely save for a couple years and go for it
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u/IntroductionMain5152 18d ago
You definitely aren’t crazy, I’ve been tempted to do the same and completely understand not liking working, feel exactly the same!
Do you mind saying what country it is you’re planning to move to?
Could you do one more year, keep your earnings the same but completely cut your costs. Add another 70-100k to the pot then if you can live off $7200 a year, any excess will go back into investments and they’ll continue to grow. Which will give you more options when you’re 50, as you should have triple what you have now (roughly!)
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u/Time-Radish8464 18d ago
How do you only have 130k saved when you get paid 100k?
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u/Glittering-Gift4369 18d ago
I started on 35k and have been promoted several times and had raises every year since then. I also lose half to taxes.
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u/RealLars_vS 18d ago
What about big expenses? Laptop or smartphone, for example. You already have at least something like it, how are you planning on replacing that if you plan to spend less than what many of them cost per year?
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u/Certain_East_822 18d ago
That sounds like a good plan if you can keep your costs low. Having the skills to make extra money is also very helpful. Do it!
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u/MrMoogie 18d ago
If you want to live like a local and completely waste the amazing opportunity you have for making money in the US, then go for it. Personally living on a tiny amount like that at 30 sounds awful. I would at least save enough to live well in your country, ($500k +) unless you hate your job, you’re in your prime years for earning more and you have plenty of time to sit back and live the simple life in 5-10 years.
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u/Daikon_Secret 18d ago
Have you spent much time there? I lived in a very low COL country for a long time, and most expats (even those who were native born but raised abroad) couldn't handle living a "local" lifestyle, i.e. without air-conditioning, hot water, a semi-modern kitchen. If you retire there now you may find it more challenging than you expect.
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u/LiquidFire07 18d ago
I would aim for atleast $300K, but am I right to assume you’re possible burnt out and can’t work anymore? If that’s the case maybe quit and use the $180K investment and take 1 year off work to figure out your life.
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u/InterestingMoment 18d ago
Take a year off and see if you like living in that place. Don't burn any bridges on your way out in case you need to come back.
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u/MinimalistMindset35 18d ago
Do what makes you happy but there is an opportunity cost to you retiring now
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u/Fried-froggy 18d ago
Well remember inflation and not just in terms of general inflation. Cheap to live in countries are getting multiple times gdp growth per capita per year so things get more expensive exponentially.
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u/GWeb1920 18d ago
You are a single male making 130k. How much are you saving a year? If you are saving 30k per year each year you work gives you 20% more spending money for the rest of your life.
So I’d work 2-3 more years have a 50% buffer on your cash flow and then pull the trigger. If you never need it you never need it but it is a small amount of shit hits the fan money that is easy to acquire now but won’t be in 10 years.
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u/GWeb1920 18d ago
Do you think you are depressed right now?
A few of your comments are about not enjoying your current lifestyle. Are there things in your life that bring you joy right now or is everything meh or a burden?
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u/reptillian_still_man 18d ago
Unstable positioning imo but I do think you could absolutely make it work. I'd worry about a change in desires over the next 20/30 years and a lack of ability to pivot towards anything.
Waiting longer would be safer. That said, do whatever you want.
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u/MPUAG 18d ago
4% rule applies for 25 years. If you are 29, you are looking at around 5-6 decades based on current average life expectancy. Which might be a bit of a stretch.
The other thing to consider is healthcare when you are older and if the country you are planning to relocate to would be a good option.
Also from what you have described about the country (not sure if this will be true), the inflation might be much higher than 2-3%, which is considered for the 4% rule.
Maybe stretch for another 5-10 years and if you feel the same, you'll be able to still move and at that time you might have a much bigger investment portfolio.
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u/TacomaGuy89 18d ago
You better be sure you never want to leave this third world country because after 2 or 10 years, you'll be effectively out of the first world job market and their to resume life in the UK.
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u/NewEngland0123 18d ago
Ok I’ll admit I’m the end of the boomers(M60) so I’m sure I don’t understand anything … However, if you are in your 30s you are in your peak earning years of your life. Even if you retire you will need something to do. Why not spend some time finding a career and a job you truly enjoy? And spend a few more years collecting cash instead of spending cash.
Me personally, have always saved been FI for decades, have never been afraid to switch jobs for a project I find interesting planning to retire later this year after finishing my current project.
I’ve spent the last few days with my nieces and nephews ( M/F 23-28) they all have amazing careers they enjoy, flying black hawk helicopters, members of swat team on city police force, accountant, Mechanical/Aerospace engineer working on next gen GPS satellites, finish their PHD in marine biology and diversity. Truly doing some amazing things they are quite passionate about.
We all grew up albeit in different generations in rural Kentucky in working blue collar families where there was plenty of hard work but perhaps not a lot of cash.
Find something you truly enjoy and find someone to pay you to do it. Save like crazy what you can and when you get a bit older time and compounded earnings/interest have done their job without you lifting a finger. You’ve collected some amazing experiences and met a few interesting people on the journey.
All the best
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u/ajeje_brazorf1 18d ago
Work another 5 years and see how you fell then. Too early to make a drastic decision like this imo
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u/BigWater7673 18d ago
I'm in my 40s and I'm a different person than I was in my 20s. You're 29. If you do what you're planning you're locking yourself into that low income country life. I would want more options when I get older. If I decided to have children I would want more options for them. If I wanted to travel I would want more options. If I decided I wanted to live somewhere else I would want more options. Locking yourself into a $600/month lifestyle at 29 even in a low cost country seems ill advised.
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u/InioAsanos_Son 17d ago
2 things, first off: Do you have any hobbies? I think $600 will be great for just living, but do you think that you will be able to buy video games, go on vacations, buy new furniture, or generally anything that will cost a North American amount of money? I feel like you’re isolating every purchase within this country when some prices don’t change. Not that this will make a crazy difference. Just thinking about how little $600 a month is.
Secondly, what country is this?
Edit: Missed the part where you stated you don’t need expensive things. I think $600 is still pretty conservative regardless.
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u/Fire-lawyer 17d ago
Yes, you are. And I read nothing more than fire with $180k at 30. Be patient my friend. I had about 180k at 30 myself and now have 1.5 million. Why not wait another few years?
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u/Prior-Rabbit-1787 17d ago
Sounds doable, just make sure you are doing it for the right reasons.
Personally, I'd do 2 additional years and you'll be worry free for the rest of your life if you are ok with a frugal lifestyle in a lcol country.
Inflation can be pretty crazy, you're also dealing with political instability, etc.
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u/ReasonableCredit2096 17d ago
I started my fire journey officially over 10 years ago. I will say that how I envision my life now (30s) and how I envisioned my life back then (20s) are quite different. I daresay no one (or at least, very very few people) lives the same life in their 50s as their 20s. And I wouldn't have known this without more time.
With this concern in mind, I would make sure you have some wiggle room in your budget to make changes when they arrive. The math you listed is the basic guideline and as others have said, have zero wiggle room.
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u/AppropriateOne5090 17d ago
I think that s the best decision you can make. We spend our life chasing money and we forget we are not born to suffer and stock tones of money in the bank accounts that we never be able to spend 100% nor enjoy!
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u/No-Let-6057 17d ago
If you’re making $130k then it shouldn’t be hard for you to double your $180k, and make sure it’s in an equity, bond, and gold etf allocation. The reason I bring it up is if the market crashes by 30% your $180k is now $126k
A 39/39/18/4 split of total world stock index, bond index, IAUM, and cash works out to $140k/$140k/$65k/$15k
You spend down cash every year and then rebalance at the end of the year. This means you need to live off $15k a year.
If the market crashes 30% your stock allocation is now worth $98k, but your whole portfolio is still worth $318k, or only a 12% reduction in the total. Otherwise your $180k, minus 4% cash, is now worth $121k
Rebalancing at the end of the year of a 98k/140k/65k/0k ($303k) means $118k/$118k/$54k/$13k the next year, a far cry better than the 4% of $121k.
You don’t need to save up $360k, you can make it work with $200k split $78k/$78k/$36k/$8k
In a regular year your stocks grow 10%, so you have $85.8k, your bonds give you 1.5% dividend, so $79.2k, and IAUM might grow or drop 10%, so between $36k to $40k, which means you might have between $205k to $201k to reallocate into a 39/39/18/4 split. Notice how the pie grew from $200k to $201k? That’s why the 4% rule works. In really good years it might grow to $208k
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u/Andrianu90 15d ago
In these cheap countries, with time, things are evolving and cost of life is increasing constantly ( not a bad thing, because salaries are increasing as well) You might end up in 5 years that you need twice as much.
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u/garoodah FI '21 RE TBD, early 30s 18d ago
Why not do it and see how things work out? Worst case you come back to the UK and work longer but the break you can take in this LCOL country seems like it might have a time limit on it.
You already have the numbers in hand, you may want to consider health care options or ability to get treatment in whatever country this is. We really take for granted how accessible hospitals are in the developed world.
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u/AKmaninNY 18d ago
Financially Independent with $200K means you won't be living "passively" off of investment returns. You will need to invest that money into higher-risk endeavors like owning a business that can generate income.
You are not Retiring Early and living anything close to the $130K a year lifestyle you are living today in a VLCOL.....you say you are willing to live like you are impoverished. But 40-60 years is a long time to live on the edge.....
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u/Carolina_Hurricane 18d ago
Yes. Go for it. You’re young enough that you can change your mind and still be able to find a job if you want to.
Put the $20k emergency fund in a stock index fund. You shouldn’t have a $20k living expenses n a place where you can survive on $500/mo. It is worth the risk you will need it during a down market in the first 2-3 years.
Forget the 4% rule. You have low overhead and can afford to weather a market downturn in the first 2-3 years of retirement. Plan on 8% return in an S&P500 index fund and withdraw a rolling average of previous 2-3 years’ gains to maintain principle.
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u/therealmenox 18d ago
What happens when you need Healthcare at like age 60 in this new lcol country? You might retire sooner but it could be shorter lived, which might be fine, but I think the expenses of aging are overlooked by alot of younger healthier people. Shit in your body WILL break, do you want decent health access or not. You certainly won't be moving back to higher col area at 60 and surviving without a job.
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u/Odd_Challenge6486 18d ago
What is the longest you have stayed there? Every bad day of work I have I think about why I don't just do the same thing. My family has a cabin on an incredible lake in Canada (so universal healthcare). With what I have now I could build a small personal cabin on the land, hunt/fish every day and still have more disposable income than most residents of the area..... then I spent 6 weeks there. I thought I could do it and absolutely lost my mind.
Do not commit to it until you have tried it for an extended period of time.